Powered By The Apocalypse: It's All In The Conversation

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Powered By The Apocalypse: It's All In The Conversation

Bear Enthusiast: Mar 20, 2010; Maybe
You'll think of me
When you are all alone

So range tags always cause some confusion with me and my group. We've only really played Apocalypse and Dungeon World, so that's where I'm coming from. Melee tags I can work with, on equal footing you usually need to Act Under Fire/Defy Danger/whatever to get in close enough to attack them without them just wailing on you. What usually rubs everyone the wrong way is having a ranged weapon where they're definitely outside your range / inside your range but it seems like you could at least make an attempt. I imagine it could be a similar situation of just interposing some sort of other roll to address it, any one have any other ideas?

# ¿ Aug 7, 2015 07:37

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 06:46

Bear Enthusiast: Mar 20, 2010; Maybe
You'll think of me
When you are all alone

I remember someone had a great writeup on writing an Agenda and Principles for a hack, but I'm not sure if it was someone here or a link to the official forums, or something else. Anyone remember something like that?

# ¿ Aug 18, 2015 00:46

Bear Enthusiast: Mar 20, 2010; Maybe
You'll think of me
When you are all alone

TurninTrix posted:

Simple World is the closest I can think of. That it?

I feel like there was some sort of blog post / article type thing about how important the agenda and principles are, but this is basically what I was looking for so thanks!

# ¿ Aug 18, 2015 03:13

Bear Enthusiast: Mar 20, 2010; Maybe
You'll think of me
When you are all alone

thefakenews posted:

Taken a first pass at this. Also added a rush job cover image.

Edit: On another note, how do people fell about "scenes" as a measure of time in PbtA games? One of the Inquisitor's moves "Fight Fire with Fire" is an Artifact that is basically two moves in one, but using the moves generates Corruption. I feel like using the Artifact should generate Corruption each time it is used, but that a given combat scene should count as a single use. Is it reasonable to talk about getting Corruption at the end of a scene in which the Artifact is used?

I feel like this idea already exists in the form of some moves having "you'll have to act fast" or "the effect doesn't last for long" as complications, so having a move say it only works for a short period of time is fine. Gives you a perfect opportunity to show a downside to their class as a pretty hard move.

Not sure of a great way to say that. Maybe something like "They can gain great temporary power, but rarely can they stave off corruption for long once the battle ends." Something where how long it lasts is generally a fight but leaves you open to fun complications. Maybe an enemy knows about the time limit and specifically is trying to rope-a-dope dodge until it wears off.

Sounds like a cool idea!

# ¿ Nov 26, 2015 23:12

Bear Enthusiast: Mar 20, 2010; Maybe
You'll think of me
When you are all alone

All of this sounds great but in practice it just means I have half the table on their phones while the other half gets to do interesting things, then vice versa. I've always felt like this was either me needing to push them towards the same overall goals, or just better time management to keep everyone engaged and not waiting too long between getting to do something. Is there some delicate balance I'm missing here, and if so any advice on said balance?

# ¿ Jan 22, 2016 00:24

Bear Enthusiast: Mar 20, 2010; Maybe
You'll think of me
When you are all alone

Got a question for anyone else who's picked up The Sprawl. I'm loving it so far, especially the more granular countdown clocks. The only one that perplexes me a bit is the effects on Corporate Clocks. I feel like from examples and descriptions I've got a good idea of what goes down on Legwork, Missions, Threats, etc. but the book seems to avoid anything but "poo poo gets bad" for the Corps.

This is especially important as they started the game with one clock at 00:00, meaning they are immediately on someone's poo poo list. I like how the book encourages a Cortex Bomb, but getting those installed is generally something that happens after they screw up as opposed to getting right up in their faces with kidnapper squads. Basically any examples would be the best for me if anyone wants to share Corporate Clocks they've written.

# ¿ Apr 3, 2016 01:07

Bear Enthusiast: Mar 20, 2010; Maybe
You'll think of me
When you are all alone

xian posted:

I would have their first mission be complicated by that Clock/Threat Clock it creates, and have their second mission be one for themselves where they have to hit the Corp to wipe their info, or have it be for the Corp in exchange for their lives.

Yeah that's a smart idea. My default plan for now is to the job be a bit of a "milk run" both as a tutorial and as fictional positioning for it to be too easy, a setup to get them all in once place when they get paid where the Corp can get their hits in.

# ¿ Apr 3, 2016 02:47

Bear Enthusiast: Mar 20, 2010; Maybe
You'll think of me
When you are all alone

I noticed something that had bothered me before going through the new 2E draft:

Have there ever been any rules/recommendations/suggestions of how healing works outside of the Angel Kit? It says at 3:00 and 6:00 you can just make them feel better, otherwise they heal naturally like everyone else. I guess this implies that those are the natural healing times?

# ¿ Aug 30, 2016 03:07

Bear Enthusiast: Mar 20, 2010; Maybe
You'll think of me
When you are all alone

lessavini posted:

How do you handle direct/violent PvP when it happens? Ask both players to roll simultaneously (and apply results simultaneously), or one after another (while the defender hinder the attacker's roll through Hx/Bonds/Strings/etc) ?

Not sure which edition you're using, but 2nd has a pretty clear PC vs PC section that clears things up. In short it says if they're both trying to violently achieve the same goal at odds with each other just have them both roll Seize by Force and compare results with like results (inflict terrible harm vs take little harm for example) cancelling each other out, or if it's just a plain old fight where both sides are aware and want to get in there and mix it up there's the Single Combat move.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2017 20:15

Bear Enthusiast: Mar 20, 2010; Maybe
You'll think of me
When you are all alone

Does anyone remember that Attack on Titan based hack "Titan World"? If so I'm looking for thoughts on how its combat ruleset worked out, as I'm eyeing it for a hack I'm working on. A quick and dirty summary is that there is one Move that can be used to actually put down one of the enemies (the titular Titans) but part of its trigger is having an Advantage that is usually set up via one of the other moves. An easy example is a move that involves using your wacky grappling hook belt to get to a new position that gives you an Advantage, which could then be expended in order to use the finisher. Teamwork of course being required because you would have playbooks that focus on one but not the other.

In addition to that idea, I was thinking there could be more interesting mechanical aspects to that concept like enemies that require more than one Advantage to have the finisher move be available, or enemies that can easily shed Advantages, that sort of thing.

# ¿ Jan 18, 2018 02:10

Bear Enthusiast: Mar 20, 2010; Maybe
You'll think of me
When you are all alone

Golden Bee posted:

Read Fellowship.

Well I suppose I have no excuse not to anymore, thanks.

# ¿ Jan 19, 2018 01:28

Bear Enthusiast: Mar 20, 2010; Maybe
You'll think of me
When you are all alone

Golden Bee posted:

Read Fellowship.

Goddamn does Fellowship basically do exactly what I want. Now I just want to play that instead of whatever dumb hack idea I had.

# ¿ Jan 19, 2018 22:59

Bear Enthusiast: Mar 20, 2010; Maybe
You'll think of me
When you are all alone

I've got a Monster of the Week game brewing and I'm running into the same worry I usually do with PbtA games, that is the rules there's lots of room for interpretation. Those are a huge part of what make these games so good but they've been a problem for me in the past. Specifically I'm looking at The Dark Side aspect of The Spooky, which says:
"The keeper can ask you to do nasty things (in accordance with the tags [they picked earlier]), when your powers need you to. If you do whatever is asked, mark experience. If you don't do it, then your powers are unavailable until the end of the mystery (or you cave)."

It sounds really great, but when the rules later on for making playbooks explicitly say it's there as a balancing factor against the playbook's other more powerful aspects I get wary of my ability to use it in a fun/interesting way. Any tips on when and how often stuff like that should kick in, or maybe examples of when it was used really well that anyone has seen?

# ¿ Feb 10, 2018 06:04

Bear Enthusiast: Mar 20, 2010; Maybe
You'll think of me
When you are all alone

SlimGoodbody posted:

Will there be an included mechanism to display how cops are bastards

I love The Wire and especially love the scene where a detective tricks someone into confessing by making him think a photocopier is a lie-detector, which according to David Simon he actually watched happen. That's some "okay this was kinda hosed up, but we look past it because it's hilarious and we the audience know the guy was actually guilty."

There's also some pretty hosed up bungling of procedure leading to deaths and ruined lives, following procedure but still leading to deaths and ruined lives anyway, and then just plain awful bullshit.

So to answer this question: Hopefully!

# ¿ May 7, 2018 16:11

Bear Enthusiast: Mar 20, 2010; Maybe
You'll think of me
When you are all alone

Tevery Best posted:

Also I can see that someone dumped a bunch of comments on me - thanks, whoever you are! I'll get to reading them right away.

That's me, you're welcome. It looks really cool, especially the concept of building up those resources towards solving the case.

Also after reading the actual playbook feel free to disregard my comment on "The Bunk", I missed some of the nuance.

# ¿ May 8, 2018 18:07

Bear Enthusiast: Mar 20, 2010; Maybe
You'll think of me
When you are all alone

OscarDiggs posted:

I'm used to storygames coming from the FATE angle so I was approaching PbtA in the same way. However, it looks like the narrative side and the mechanical side are utterly seperated in AW and the like, unlike in storygames I'm more familiar with.

Taking two Gunluggers; Jangles the Moon Mokey with his triple uzis vs the morose "The War" veteran. From how I'm reading it, it doesn't matter that one is a monkey and one is a veteran. If one uses uzis and another likes to avoid conflict. If they both pick Battlefield Instincts, Blood Crazed and Prepare For The Inevitable, then they're fundamentally the same characters.

But because narrative and mechanics are so distinct, it doesn't matter that they are the same...

So the reason they're different is because they're different. I think a lot of this is comes from the part where I cut you off, because "the fiction" (what you're calling narrative) and the mechanics are intertwined.

If they are in the same exact situation, react the same exact way, which causes the same exact move to trigger, and they make any possible choices the same way, then they are very similar yes. But that's a lot of variables!

Why does Jangles have those moves? The MC will probably ask that, and that will change how it works. Because the fiction comes first. It doesn't have to change the specific mechanics written in the move for it to change the fiction. If the veteran has an ancient hi-tec HUD in his retinas to explain those Battlefield Instincts, the MC might say things happen as a result of it. Wolves Of The Maelstrom don't show up on them, Buzzo's drug cocktail makes his heart beat so fast the HUD can see it through walls sometimes.

A lot of Apocalypse World is just letting things happen, you're playing to see what happens.

Also if Jangles is a monkey I would probably have a lot more Act Under Fire rolls for people smiling at them (if that's a monkey thing I forget).

# ¿ Sep 15, 2018 02:53

Bear Enthusiast: Mar 20, 2010; Maybe
You'll think of me
When you are all alone

Mechanically they tend to involve a roll with their primary stat and then some number of choices. The list of choices is either good things they pick to have happen, bad things they pick to have not happen, or maybe both.

A quick rough example for that sort of move (of which there are many variants on top of doing something else entirely)

MC Love Letter Move posted:

When you've been gone a while, roll +STAT
On a miss still pick 1, but expect something extra nasty from the MC. On a 7-9 pick 2, on a 10+ pick 3.

-You picked up some new gear
-You made a new friend
-You learned a thing or two (mark XP)
-You didn't piss anyone off
-You didn't blow a lot of jingle.

Love and kisses,
The MC

# ¿ Oct 8, 2018 14:41

Bear Enthusiast: Mar 20, 2010; Maybe
You'll think of me
When you are all alone

I've been thinking of apocalyspe world and Monster of the Week lately, having run both for short periods, and how things happening off-screen works. As far as I can tell the rules always have the narrative with at least one of the players, so if there's some mechanical effect (like the result of a 7-9 or 6- for a move) that they wouldn't be aware of you just don't mention it.

apocalypse world 2e posted:

� Think offscreen too. When it�s time for you to make a move, imagine what your many various NPCs must have been doing meanwhile. Have any of them done something offscreen that now becomes evident? Are any of them doing things offscreen that, while invisible to the players� characters, deserve your quiet notice?

These would be things where for whatever reason you don't feel like Announce Future Badness or Announce Off-Screen Badness would really apply. Badness that wouldn't really be Announced.

Am I on the right track here? Part of me feels like there should be cutaways for the players that their characters aren't aware of, to give them something about the fact that I just did some move. Or alternatively just quietly chuckle when they fail a roll and your response is to advance a clock.

# ¿ Apr 12, 2024 18:51

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 06:46

Bear Enthusiast: Mar 20, 2010; Maybe
You'll think of me
When you are all alone

Admiralty Flag posted:

Maybe it's just my style/philosophy for MotW, but I always let players know when a clock has been ticked, and almost always say, "And your characters know this as well." Out of game, it prevents surprise at, "We had no way of knowing the gate to the outer realms was going to open so soon!" In-game, I justify it as portents, bad dreams, mystic sendings, bad feelings, etc.

I think the philosophy is transferable to most PbtA games. The characters are supposed to be savvy to the ways of the world, a cut above. They have contacts, perception, whatever. Besides, it's no fun just springing a death ray or the like on them when they could have been facing dilemmas all along related to those fronts. "You could have let the gangers overrun the town if you wanted to stop the mystic!"

But that's just my opinion.

Yeah that certainly tracks for having things be Announced in a variety of fun ways besides "there's smoke on the horizon" or "someone says you pissed off the werewolf mafia with your antics".

Ilor posted:

Not exactly. You should think offscreen, but you need to convey the effects of that offscreen action to the players somehow. The key phrase is "...that now becomes evident." About the only time I'll do anything without clueing the player(s) in is when I choose the You miss noticing something important option from a partial on the Harm move, and even then it usually becomes readily apparent in the near term. I almost always use that as a set-up to put someone in a spot.

But there's a difference between active narration and what is happening in the background. There will always be consequences to the PCs action (or inaction), but it's incumbent upon the MC to do so in such a way that those are tied to the narrative. Does that make any sense?

Yeah, that makes sense.

I suppose in general if the effect is so completely out of being announce-able it generally wouldn't make a lot of sense to be related to whatever caused you to make an MC Move in the first place.

# ¿ Apr 12, 2024 19:33

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Powered By The Apocalypse: It's All In The Conversation