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Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.
Yeah, I've been running a campaign in it for the last 13 weeks. Our problems with it came from a misunderstanding of how to play it. The rumors you start up should be something that can be mostly resolved in one session. Like, the brunt of it. Maybe the mafia boss isn't gone, but the immediate threat is. It helps avoiding the game from compounding on itself and stories taking too long to resolve. Also, keep things at street level. Don't, and I repeat: don't, let the supernatural elements lead to you taking it out of genre or else things will fall apart until you wash that away. Combat is a last resort and lethal, remember that. Also, keep track of debts. If you forget to do that, that mechanic loses weight and the game feels like it's missing an important piece of itself. Also, attack the people where they are vulnerable like their friends: attack their spirit as much as you attack their body; it works better.

Finally, it's worth noting the classes are abstracted a tad. Like, the Wizard is a detective, the werewolf is a street gang member, the hunter is a vigilante, etc. If the players don't get that when they pick their archetype, they might not like their experience with the class.

Overall, the game has gone well and system seems pretty cool. The Wizard's intimacy move is weird, but everything else seems fine.

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Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

unseenlibrarian posted:

It didn't really seem like feat chains/tech tree stuff in my read-through. It's more..."Build your own playbook" level stuff, like a finer grained version of the split playbooks in Spirit of '77. Chargen consists of picking an origin and two careers, which gets you four starting moves (One origin, 3 picked from between your two careers.) Once you've picked those, you name the combo; Bob might be playing a regimented military spacefarer and call it 'Space Marine", Susan is playing a Brutal Clandestine Scoundrel and call it "Assassin",. etc.

So, more like Class Warfare for Dungeon World? That supplement, if you ever seen it?

Banana Man posted:

How does publishing pbta stuff work? Gotta slap a logo on it like pathfinder compatible stuff?

I think you just have to give credit to Vincent Baker. I do think there is a logo, but I don't think you need to use it. IIRC, Baker seems really chill about publishing. Correct me if I am wrong.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

unseenlibrarian posted:

That sounds right- I've not seen it, but I've heard it described, and it sounds fairly close.

UW does some weird stuff with advancement; basically, purchasing a new move costs marked XP=The number of moves you already have; you can also change how you mark XP or even unlock a new career to advance. (When you start out, you pick one advancement method from your careers; whenever the advancement method you picked comes up, everyone in the group marks XP. It's recommended that with a small group, everyone should pick two advancement triggers to start to keep the XP coming in at about the same rate.)

Also there are maybe too many basic moves, but some of them only apply when dealing with your starship or with faction stuff.

While I don't know how many moves there are, it's fairly common to have a few extra moves devoted to an important subsystem of the genre so that isn't a problem.

The advancement system sounds ok, though I do wonder how it works with the fiction. Like, I can kind of see why they did it the way they did it, but it all feels a little DW to me which isn't a great thing.

On the front of basic moves being a bit much, I worry that the new combat move might have become bloated.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Babe Magnet posted:

Yeah, separating moves into Basic (stuff available at all times) and Special (stuff that requires specific contexts in order to be used) is how I do things in my own little thing I'm working on.

Speaking of, do you guys think a mechanic like 13th Age's Escalation Die would work in a PbtA system? I was thinking of adding it in, since a central theme of my hack is things going sideways or situations getting worse on drastic levels, and I think something like that would work well to represent that. Is this a good thread to ask about mechanics for hacks we're working on or would I be better off taking this question to the game design thread or whatever?

That's actually been done. City of Jerusalem has a system for that. Off the top of my head, there is a d6 on the table that goes up in value when something happens (I forget the trigger) and you can take it to replace one of your dice when you resolve a move at some sort of cost (I forgot the cost). You'd have to check the game itself for more details.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Fenarisk posted:

I know it's radically changing the die mechanic/resolution mechanic but I feel PbtA games would work real well with edge of the empire dice. They're just so narrative.

I mean, that could be workable. Pbta is more about move structure, gm moves and the such: 2d6 + Stat and 6-,7-9, and 10+ is just a permutation. You could totally do it within a move structure and have it work.

I don't remember those dice off hand, but this could be a template:

Covok posted:

When you do [trigger], roll [Attribute] + [Skill] + [Difficulty]. If you have net successes, [effect]. If you have advantage, [effect]. If you have a disadvantage, the MC may make a minor MC move. On a failure, the MC may make a major or minor MC move, MC's choice.
Like I said, I forgot the notations on those dice, but this would be how you would port this into the PbtA engine. This example includes a two tier category to MC moves to reflect failure and disadvantage, respectively. It would also assume that there was a basic move like:

Covok posted:

When little things are in your favor, add a Boost die to your roll. When little things are not in your favor. add a Setback die to your roll.
With moves and MC moves applying these types of die in addition to the above move.

In addition, you'd need a system to upgrade difficulty dice to challenge dice. Perhaps a MC move or some point system.

The biggest hurdle is how few people have EotE dice and how much of a gate that would make to acquisition.

Covok fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Oct 27, 2015

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Arashiofordo3 posted:

And the wizard is pretty much Dresden. I do love me some monster of the week.

Funny enough, Urban Shadows is similar, if my player is to be believed.*

*I have never read Dresden Files.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.
As a good rule of thumb, if you're US game starts to look like MotW (like it happened early in my campaign), dial it down.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.
I updated the OP with a few new titles that have come out. Anything else come out recently that I missed?

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

UrbanLabyrinth posted:

Fellowship isn't there, if you're listing in-progress ones.

Added it in. I am so bad at spiels.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.
Things I learned today: Do not do PVP in Urban Shadows.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.
I'm looking forward to Mistaya seeing these posts and asking what happened.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

TurninTrix posted:

Can you clarify? I've been reading the book and it was in the stance that it could do PVP perfectly fine.

Let me take you through what happened:

One of the players, Quantum Ninja's Benny, made a rumor that the Vampires were going after another player, Sevensocks's Alex, for taking people out and making things inconvenient. He rolled a 6- and I said the Vampires, through his allegiance to Alex, were going after him.

Flash forward, Quantum Ninja is saved by a trap left by one vampire faction by one of the vampire mafia that he's friendly towards. Things are going well, but it quickly becomes clear that she has a agenda. She calls in her debts with him to ask him to prove his loyalty. Quantum Ninja's Benny, after all, is on almost friend-like terms to the head to the head of this vampire mafia family, but associates himself with a hunter who is causing them problems and was trying to go after him in the past. This put Quantum Ninja's loyalty into question so they asked him to kill Sevensocks' Alex. Quantum Ninja considers refusing the debt, but decides to take them up on the offer.

Flash forward, Sevensocks is trying to get his job back at the FBI. Since he was fired for insanity for claiming werewolves killed his team has been backed up with the government knowing the supernatural exist, he feels like he could get his old gig back. After some effort, he gets a job as a deniable agent.

Flash backwards, Quantum Ninja was acting very loud (as in doing big heists and going after big names in close succession and not sneakily) and made enemies of a lot people way long ago. He ended up getting the attention of law enforcement. When Sevensocks decided to make a debt to escape (it's one of the results), I had him rescued by one of his old FBI buddies who now was the head of the supernatural affairs division of the FBI. He gets a job to try to "investigate and take care of" a wizard who has been at the center of a lot of big incidents. Sevensocks was going to take the job until he realized his buddy had gone all "ends justify means" and had pre-kidnapped his daughter as leverage, if needed. Using Quantum Ninja as bait, he was able to lure this guy out to an isolated area and killed him secretly. No one found out.

Flash forward, the new head of the supernatural affairs division wants sevensocks to take out Quantum Ninja since, due to fact that the previous head died going after him, are convinced he killed the previous head. Basically, this was the last mission the previous head gave out, he got personally involved, then he got killed: makes Quantum Ninja seem like a likely cause.

Now, to take a step back, I do give characters conflicting goals in a lot of sessions or have things set up to cause differences of opinions to clash. I feel it kind of makes sense for a street level crime game, even with supernatural overtones. This isn't the first time I was so direct, but it is the first time people took me up on this idea.

Now, I was expecting sabotage, politicking, and maybe a quick scuffle out of the ordeal. Perhaps even the two trying to get themselves out of this without killing each other. Maybe one would kill the other, but, well, recently I played AW for the first time and players being against players almost felt encourages, this was the same engine, and it fits with the emulated genre (gang crime).

However, it didn't really work out. It got a little meta-game-y, a little "cold war"-ish, and, finally, they both decided to just go straight for it in public. Thing is, I wasn't expecting direct combat between the two and the game doesn't support that in the way my group and I would prefer.

It was over quick because a 12+ on advanced Unleash forced a Hunter victory (surrender or be incapacitated: QN chose surrender), but then it got tense a bit with how to deal with things. Doesn't help that Quantum Ninja's End Move could really gently caress Sevensocks depending on how he set it out and Sevensocks really didn't want to lose Quantum Ninja's friend, Mistaya's, trust since he planned on training his daughter to be a hunter. So, he decided to not to kill him and now are stuck trying to figure things out.

Ya know, saying this all out loud, it doesn't sound like it really went that bad, mechanically. Maybe? Could have been our view on things or our mutual attitude on it? I'm not sure because, strangely, it doesn't sound like it went that bad, except for the meta-game-y cold war part, really. I'm not sure. But we kind of agreed not to put PCs ever so directly against each other since it doesn't jive with how our group thinks games should be. Honestly, I think it's fair to say none of us where having fun with it after a certain point and that means we should avoid scenarios like that in the future.

Like, hell, Sevensocks said one reason he didn't kill QN was because he honestly felt like a dick if he did.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.
Anything new in PbtA land? In other words, anything to add to the OP?

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.
I've linked works in kickstarter so I suppose this is acceptable.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.
How would you give this game a marketing blurb? I've never read the comic before and don't know how to summarize a game based on it?

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.
Alright, added to the OP.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.
Yeah, that seems like it would work better.

So, to those who got the playtest, is it the pits or actually good?

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.
Skimming it over, it doesn't look great. I'll admit I didn't read the whole thing, but some parts seemed a little messed up. Like, damage die seem like a poor choice and the moves make odd references like "can't talk for 1 minute." Might have just read the bad parts, but it doesn't feel like Abbadon (isn't that like the angel of hell) is playing to the system's strength.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.
It's an understandable mistake, I suppose. It seems safer on paper to go with what works. That's why we got so many games that ape pre-existing games instead of going out and making something completely from scratch. Though, it would work out better if this were a FATE game or something similar which supports that style of design.

That said, I don't know if that's necessarily what's happening here. Like I said, didn't read the whole thing.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Operant posted:

Hey! I am Abbadon (guy who makes Kill Six Billion Demons), thanks for checking out my comic/weird RPG hack. The RPG has always been a side project for me to my comic (which consumes most of my time). I chose PbTA to try and write a game in because I love its core game philosophy of consequence and narrative.

I did actually write an earlier version much closer to Dungeon World, but I found that I didn't like the combat flow in that very much. I did include damage die of a sort in this version just so there's a little bit of randomness in the damage and a system to interact with. It's still a glorified harm mechanic. I am a little hesitant to call it final because I feel like it makes the damage a little spiky, and I'm very open to changing things up.

I've thought about re-writing some of the core moves/statistics to be more setting-specific, but I also want to keep it accessible - as much as I liked Apocalypse World (and it's probably my favorite RPG system), it was a royal pain in the rear end having to explain the difference between going aggro and seizing by force.

If you have any feedback or pointers I'm very open to them - it's my first time writing a game system. I decided to write the RPG mainly because of interest.

Hello, Abbadon. Welcome to SA. I haven't had a chance to really read it through, but I'd love to give you some feedback when I get the chance.

Until I have a chance to read it over, I am a little curious about one aspect you mentioned. I hope this does come off as rude and I'll admit it presumptuous of me to ask such a question before having a chance to sit down and check your work, but why do you feel that the damage system needs randomness? Most PbtA titles don't use damage dice and, personally, I'm not a fan of their inclusion in Dungeon World, though it was in-line with their goals (emulation of Basic D&D). I am bias due to this I'll admit, but I do feel that damage randomness doesn't tend to add things to these titles.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.
It looks like AW: Dark Ages has, potentially, changed to AW: Fallen Empires. Or, at the very least, Vincent has released a Fantasy-AW game on his Patreon recently.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

unseenlibrarian posted:

He also apparently handed off his notes for Dark Ages to Sage Latorra and John Harper to try and work up into something.

I wonder how that will turn out. DW: 2nd Edition, perhaps?

On that subject matter, AW: Fallen Empire feels a lot like the AW: 2nd Edition preview from before with changes to make it a fantasy game. There might be too many, non-playbook moves.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Josef bugman posted:

Any links to fallen empires?

Can't. It's behind a patreon paywall and we aren't supposed to give links out.

It isn't much, to be honest. It really is just a reskinned AW 2nd Edition with some tweaks. It's...underwhelming.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.
I hope this doesn't come off the wrong way, but that's sort of how my game, Dungeon Bastards, has handled its move structure and how Vincent is experimenting with AW: 2nd Edition. Since I don't know if I can talk about Vincent's work in detail, I'll talk about my own title. My game handled the "1 move to 1 scene" by basically just giving you big, overarching effects to a move that narrate out once a move happens. It's inspired by pbta, not pbta, so it runs off a "once a move triggers, you resolve it and use your successes (if any) to narrate out effects from a list provided by the move."

For example:

My Dumb Writting posted:

Ain't You Tough poo poo?
When you fight someone who ain't a punkass, roll Fists competitively.
Spend your successes to narrate the following throughout the scene:
• The fight is loving sick and everyone is impressed.
• You get their respect.
• You leave them dead.
• They give you some crap you like or want.
• They let some poo poo slip that they shouldn't have.
...until you spend all your successes or are satisfied with the results

Time To Beat Some rear end
When you beat the poo poo out of some punks, roll Fists passively. Spend your
successes to narrate the following throughout the scene:
• You kick all their heads in.
• None of them get away.
• The whole thing makes them look like little wimps.
• They don't even touch you.
• You keep one as a prisoner.
...until you spend all your successes or are satisfied with the results.

Like I said, I don't know if I can talk a lot about AW: 2nd Edition, but it is moving in a more, mostly, macro-move direction. Or, I suppose, one could argue the opposite depending on how you played AW.

See, I do feel one can do a 1 move to 1 scene approach with Apocalypse World. Later PbtA games, I feel, have added a more micro nature to moves. But, AW always gave me the vibe that you could end things on just one move. Let things play out from there, you know? Another goon on here keeps saying that, in AW, you shouldn't roll too often and that's what a lot of later PbtA titles got wrong, his words.

Unless I'm misinterpreting what you mean by macro moves, of course.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

QuantumNinja posted:

I though it was fine :(

The real innovation in the work is the horse-riding mechanisms, which are actually pretty cool. Based on the failures of past attempts (i.e., Driver playbook in AW), VIncent is trying to get a handle on how to do chase and chase/combat scenes correctly in PbtA, and that's totally worthwhile. What's more, his work is headed in the right direction! That is to say: it's headed in the direction of some of the cyberpunk hacks. (And that's a serious improvement! His previous draft of AW2 had horrible hold/spend for each group in the chase!)

At any rate, it's a neat foundation, and the rules were certainly worth my patreon money. :colbert:

I suppose that is a good point. The chase mechanics do seem much better than in other PbtA titles. I am curious what you mean by "some cyberpunk hacks:" which exactly?

My biggest issue with it and the battle moves, though, is that it has lead to serious move inflation. Some moves (like Assault a Position and Sieze by Force) feeling redundant. Even outside that front, there just seems to be a lot more moves that everyone has than in any other title. That isn't necessarily bad and may be a good direction to go, but is a bit surprising to me. In some ways, the battle moves help keep to a "one move per scene" dynamic that I, personally, feel is for the best, but it also means a lot more moves are necessary, on the other hand.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Arashiofordo3 posted:

I'd just like to take a moment and say this post made me go and buy Dungeon Bastards. Which I now love. So thanks very much for that.

I am, sincerely, happy to hear that! While I love constructive criticism, I also love hearing people got enjoyment from something I made. I hope, if you decide to play it, that you and your friends enjoy the experience!

Thanks for the message.

Covok fucked around with this message at 11:12 on Jan 3, 2016

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

QuantumNinja posted:

Appreciated, but there are some things seriously missing, like:
  • A harm move. There is a sort-of harm move, called Take a Powerful Blow, but it's unclear how often that should come up. Sure, a huge combatant hits you, roll it. But if you're just mixing it up with some thugs in an alley, does it come up? If not, damage is only 'mark a condition'. Which is fine, but only barely spelled out, i.e., why doesn't Directly Engage mention marking a condition when it goes poorly?
  • A general 'dangerous maneuver' move, a la Act Under Fire. Is there never risk, beyond the few things outlined?
  • A general manipulation move. There's one for changing people you have influence over, but no outright lying. There's a move to Provoke Someone, but using it for subtle, quiet lies is more than a stretch. I think that's weird for a game that so heavily focuses on personal communication: do lies just default as successful?
Tense moments in the fiction, moments that seem to require something beyond general table consensus, don't trigger moves.

The other thing I disliked, which I didn't remember until I looked at the rules to write this post, is that the bonuses are mathematically unreasonable. +4s and +5s are commonplace! It's easy and straightforward to get +3 in an attribute without much cost, even to the point that two classes (Transformed and Janus) start at +3 in something. That isn't intrinsically bad, but paired with the +1from the Team mechanic (which should be getting spent like candy, because Team points are easy and good), you get this:



A lot of the playbook moves also give you +1s left and right, exacerbating this problem.

Like I said, it's possible I'm doing all of this wrong. But my reading of the cheat sheet release suggests a game that lacks some important infrastructure for the stories it is trying to tell and that's pretty imbalanced with respect to roll bonuses. I'd really like to see the author(s) do a playtest, though, maybe on youtube, to see what they had in mind.

Well, they did do a two part playtest with an older playtest copy: Part 1 and Part 2

As for your questions:
  • On the google+ page, they answered that for me. You Take A Powerful Blow only when it comes from a source that makes sense in the narrative. If you get hit by plane, fight Bizzaro, or, for the street-level-not-invulnerable-people, get shot, you Take A Powerful Blow. As for Directly Engage, the idea is you mark a condition when you take their blows. It is vague in the handout. Presumably, it'd be more clear in the book. Likely, this is because it could also lead to Take A Powerful Blow, not always so they were less concrete on things.
  • That is a big problem and one my game ran into. I use Unleash Powers for now, but it does need one.
  • I don't really see this as much of an issue as, in most Young Superhero stories, lies usually just succeed when used on other players until the character feels too guilty or the truth comes to light on its own. But, a move maybe useful for this.
  • Yeah, they need to tighten the math quite a bit

Ya know, it might be useful to crosspost this on their official google+ page. The authors do read the posts there and it could help them sees these problems.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Josef bugman posted:

Okay so this Thursday I am going to be running a game of Urban Shadows for some of my mates and I am really nervous.

Any advice people can give for me? I mean the first session is mainly going to be character rolling, rules explaining and ancillary bullshit. But I would still appreciate any advice other people have as to how to run a decent game.

Be chill, be cool, listen to your players, build their experience around their rumors, realize that rumors are them directly telling you what they want to play, and, most importantly, chiiiiiiiiiiillllllllll.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Funny thing is that this isn't the first one I've ever seen. My friend linked me to one and did the same horrified shock joke to one he found while on GitP a while back.

That said, this was to be expected. I mean, it's no surprise.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

paradoxGentleman posted:

"A storytelling adventure game about magical ponies, and their fight against the forces of darkness of the Starless Night. For young women and their friends."

This is a strange way to put it.

If I had to take a guess, he was trying to avoid saying it was a game for little girls by saying it was for young women. Like saying it's action figures, not toys, ya know?

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

paradoxGentleman posted:

I suppose. If they actually pulled off a PBTA aimed at and ideal for that particular age group, it'd be noteworthy; but I get the feeling that this is aimed more at the adult fans than the younger ones, if nothing else because former are more likely to find it than the latter.

A game that tried to go for that "little kid's show innocent/moral play" would be interesting in PbtA, but it might not mesh out due to the aforementioned "every playbook having a different focus" in most PbtA titles. Unless it did it in a "we're all different and this is how we resolve/respect those differences" kind of way. Would prefer if it weren't tied to the pony franchise due to the toxic fanbase.

Golden Sky Stories, for the most part, probably hits that niche well-enough, for now. Also, there are a few other roleplaying games made for kids in mind, by the by, if that's what you're looking for in a game.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Kaja Rainbow posted:

I know the guy. He doesn't like the toxic fanbase. Anyways he invited me to playtest this thing. I said I barely know anything about MLP and he said that was good for playtesting. I will report back about how it goes.

Edit: also, Golden Sky Stories is great.

Just to be clear, do you mean the "Jesus loving Christ" one on Vincent Baker's site or the one my friend linked me to on Gtip?

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Kaja Rainbow posted:

The one on Vincent Baker's site.

Tell us how it turns out. Or the catpiss thread depending on how it turns out.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Golden Bee posted:

I don't see why you'd put hours into your life creating something based on other peoples' IP.

Babe Magnet posted:

It's easier to get people on board and interested in something they're already on board and interested in.

Pretty much this, yeah. I'm currently testing some ideas for a FATE game I want to make by doing an Eberron hack. Getting feedback for an original game can be hard at times, but a popular, pre-existing franchise is a good way to test out ideas with some assuredness that people will look.

That said, he is probably a brony who wants to play ponies.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.
While hardcover would be awesome, I much rather Vincent not tank his entire project by getting over zealous. In many ways, he's using it how kickstarter's supposed to be used: a pre-ordering service for a product that hasn't yet been completed. Stretch goals always did seem counter to it and feel more like the results of a frenzied brainstorming session where the accountant was out sick.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.
I'll give this a look over. Before I do, though, I do want to say that you probably should put more thought into the MC stuff. A lot of people neglect that in their PbtA games. The MC material is a good way of refining the game and making sure it runs properly.

From experience, as the creator, you know how the game is meant to be run, but other GMs may not. Specialized MC moves, fronts, etc. are great way to reinforce the intended playstyle the game is built around. And, trust me, PbtA do not work out well when you play against their intended playstyles on either side of the PC/MC divide.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Mr. Damage Control posted:

Thanks for the input. I do want the MC section to reflect the game's style. I'm just not sure what changes I should make to do so. The rules are in a fairly stable state after several re-writes, so I'll get to work on the MC section next.

Alright, I've had some time to look it over and collected my thoughts.

Anyway, enough of that aside.

I get the vibe that you're main exposure to the engine is through Dungeon World. Now, Dungeon World is not a bad game, but it's not the best World game. Levels are kind of unnecessary and constraining, for example. Most PbtA games don't use them and are better for it. Also, you don't need that many moves per playbook, but that could be personal preference. I think some of the moves -- like Polygot -- just end up feeling weak and going to a more standard number of moves per playbook with a more meta-textual standpoint may improve the playbook moves.

To be honest, it'd be cleaner, I feel, if the game kept more to the 6-, 7-9, 10+ ranges. 12+ usually show up as Advanced Basic moves things or the such in most games. I find it better, personally, to normally keep to those ranges and only use 12+ rarely for a set class of things, like -- as previously said -- Advanced Basic Moves.

Now, doing combat in PbtA has always been a bit weird. The Advanced Battle Moves in Apocalypse World were good, but thrown into the back of the book and often overlooked. Dungeon World ignored these rules so you may not have seen them. You have some Advanced Battle Moves, so you may have read them, but you may want to check them out. The best way to handle battles it to think how they work in fiction. If it's Exalted, they should be elongated, showy affairs. I would suggest taking a gander at Nathan Paolletta's World Wide Wrestling. It has a great move to handle big, showy brawls built for people to show off and perform impressive moves. That, to me, seems like a good fit.

Apocalypse World 2nd Edition is in Kickstarter and it's battle moves are open for non-backers to look over. These may be too concise, but it may help you to look them over. Your current system reminds me of AW 2nd Editions moves, though a bit different. I'm not saying it must change, but I feel the current system may, in my opinion, be too specific and feel like D&D 3e's special actions, ya know? Charge, Parry, etc. just may be too limited in scope and a little too grounded for an Exalted-like game.

It'd be better if the playbook gave you gear and connection leads (like Hx questions). Playbooks should be completely self-contained. Their main benefit is that you can give them out to people and they can build their entire character with them alone. And, therefore, they can play the game with just the basic moves, etc. and their playbook.

Your damage seems high. Most NPCs tend to take 2-harm in PbtA games. Doing 4 damage by default with bonuses may be much. A base 7+Stat system for Harm may be a bit too much. A lot of PbtA's harm system is bound to that 6-harm expectation so it might require rejiggering to make that work if that's your angle. Personally, I'd suggest working it closer to the 6-harm system with damage that applies well. The amount of harm NPCs can take, after all, is more based on their narrative importance, afterall. Not like in other rpgs where it may be aligned to in-game power/difficulty. I guess it's not impossible, but it would require a lot of work to make it sing. And, your current system, includes monsters with health levels that are more than a little bloated. A 30+ health creature would be way, way too much for a game like this.

I feel some moves don't hit the 10+: success, 7-9: partial success, 6-: failure well enough. In the sense that some move's 7-9 feel like full successes with 10+ feel like success plus a bonus. Failure in PbtA is interesting and moves things forward. Most of the time, the players should have to make real concessions that force things forward. That dynamic should help the overall game

Personally, I don't like multi-stat moves and Strive might be better with a genre reinforcing stat choice like how in AW you can only dodge bad things by rolling +Cool because you need to be Cool to pull these things off.

Your advancement feels a little slow for PbtA. The playbook facilitates quick level advancement by design. Picking new moves in the middle of play tends to work out just fine. What I really mean, though, is that it feels like your XP system might be a little slow.

I love the idea of Great Curse, but it could probably just be +Will instead of the lower of the two. That's no deal breaker, though.

Honestly, a lot of things feel too situational. It really feels like you're playing this too much like D&D at time. Don't get me wrong, D&D is a fine game, but its ideas don't transfer over well to this engine. There are too many +X stuff and the like. Math really should be kept in such a manner that a player will only have a -1 to +3 modifier, unassisted, with +3 being rare. And all the damage boosting things feel like a band-aid for the bloated health system.

I noticed you did some things in tons for the Void Ships. PbtA is best when you don't use Gold-like resources. It's better to just use 2-barter as an abstraction, for example. Not too much accounting, more abstract resource management. It just tends to roll better in this game and it allows you to use money in moves effectively.

Alright, I hope this didn't seem rude or came off ramble-y. I kind of rolled this out all at once and I feel like that may have made it hard to parse and I may have screwed up my point at times. I could get in more detail, but I feel that could be a bit too much to do. I hope this helps you out with your game!

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Nifara posted:

Hey, what do you know, I'm writing an Exalted hack - Lords of Creation.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/12niMZRCEB-doHFFxVFL_sYUSlwlE4bUoRrpLPiYpnI4/edit?usp=sharing

I suspect it suffers from the same problems as Damage Control's effort, though I've tried to make the Anima Banner the metric by which exalted are forced into hijinks.

We've had a playtest, and it went pretty well. Hopefully get another one soon. Let me know what you think, if you get a chance to look at it. It's still very draft form at the moment, but the only thing you really need to the know is that everyone gets the basic moves, and you get another set of "basic moves" from your exalted type.

You can check out a couple of example playbooks in full layout https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-ssoH7YZYcYTTNGdjFsd0VTbHc/view?usp=sharing and https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-ssoH7YZYcYUHl1XzNxU0lyTTg/view?usp=sharing.

I'm just skimming through at this point, but I think you have the some good ideas:

-Getting differrent stats and a different periphal moves that cover what most PbtA have as Bssic Moves by Exalted Type is a great, great way to do a WoD-esque multisplat design in PbtA. It really establishes how different each group interacts with world. That said, Lunars need one more stat. PbtA works best with 4-5 stats.
-Your weapons do a lot of damage, but you kept a 6-harm max and clearly want battles to be one roll affairs, judging by the Solar move. So, that's absolutely fine. Just know that Exalted NPCs will need some armor-like mechanic if you want them to survive. Normal people stand no chance against Exalted and should die in one hit so I like that.
-The 7-9 on Pray's "the God doesn't hear it" is too much like backing out of the action when you realize they're consequences.
-The fact raising armies and contacting gods are everyone's basic moves are nice and handled well. You can put the exceptions by Exalted type in the relevant playbook to save space. Only Dragonblood need to know they spend less, for example. You should make sure to have a page on the Army rules in your basic moves pdf to speed up play. Having to dive for those in play sucks.
-The Excelenices being a 12+ or nothing deal is a little problematic. It makes it hard to adjunct 7-9 or 10+. Unless these are advances for another move and I'm not seeing it. It'd be better if 7-9 gave you the boon, but it causes a complication and 10+ just gave you the boon. Edit: I see now they advance something, but that move uses a different stat so it's still problematic.
-I highly, highly suggest not to have one stat start at +3 and the other at +2. PbtA thrives on partial successes. That and failure drives the plot foward. Unlike other engines, failure isn't a roadblock. +3 is just too good for a starter and will make it boring as well as the possibility of two +3. I get Exalted are larger than life, but it's better to model that through move text.
-I love that your XP triggr reinforce the genre!
-Currently, Lunars have no combat move.
-Alot of things relating to Health seems to come back in hours or minutes. That can work, but maybe there is a better way to handle it. If nothing else, it can be hard to remember as currently presented. Maybe present the info as a basic move. As in, "when an hour passes, heal a harm."
-The layout on the playbooks looks good to me.

And that's what I got from my skim. Didn't look too closely at non-solars or the excellencies themselves, for the record. I kike where this hack is going, hope it works out, and would be willing to help again in the future.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.
I'm glad you respond well to constructive critiques!

Nifara posted:

On a 7-9, choose: the god wants something more in return for showing themselves, or them answering you angers an enemy you didn’t know you had.

That could work. I like how it could include the God itself revealing a lack of allegiance. It definitely feels more like a partial success than backing out.

Nifara posted:

When you engage in epic combat by righteously smiting your foe with your own hands (and you have the excellency), you can choose to roll+conviction instead of +dawn. If you do, you advance the move, and you can use charms you know for that excellency as options when you're prompted to choose, as long as you're willing to spend essence.

Hmm, in-hindsight that does make sense. I guess the best way of doing it is making sure there is an example in the final document on how they work so people can check if they get confused. Or include after "you advance the basic Dawn move when you do certain things -- when doing so, changing the stat of the move as described --" in all the playbook's Excellencies and Charm's text.

Nifara posted:

They do, but it's not immediately obvious. The Lunar stuff is the most recent (I haven't finished writing all the playbooks, for starters), and the one I'm least sure about. I wanted to match the rhythm of the other exalt types by having basic moves match to castes, but with the lunars only having three, that's a challenge. The combat move is:

I feel that trigger is a little too vague for that particular effect. Maybe play on the fact Lunars are meant to the mythical barbarians of Rome and go like "when you give into your animal nature and unleash your fury."

Nifara posted:

perhaps a casteless or wyld stat would make sense for them.
Wyld seems like a good choice since I swear their shaping comes from some weird effect of the Wylds, right? If not, Fury or Rage might work. I do feel they need one more.

I hope this helps out as well. When I get more time today, I'll take a close look at the other Exalt types.

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Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.
I just noticed a little typo on the playbooks: under Anima, it says to reset Anima to =0 when it hits +4 while the Anima Tracker section says to wait till the end of the encounter. Whichever is true should be on both just to avoid a little confusion.

If it's just the Sidereals, I'll give a quick look over the Sidereal moves.

-Adopt an Identity feels a little long in the tooth. I like how clear it makes that it's absolute, but it might be something to be more concisely written.
-Stop and Begin is pretty cool, if I'm right in thinking it's a "one adventure ended, a new one begins" thing. Though, if more than on Sidereal is on the table, it could lead to a mess of rolls. I think it shouldn't be a problem though.
-Why would you want to "turn joy to pain" when you're the one experiencing it? It makes sense if you makes others feel it too, but, outside that option, why?
-Witnesses can remember who it began can be nice, though situational. Nothing wrong with it, just felt like pointing it out. Maybe an excellency based on making it seem like whoever you wanted start the fight. Fake Edit: I just realized Sidereals have a peaceful theme throughout so are probably pacifists by nature: so the move works a lot better.
-I'm not sure what "Bring An End" is supposed to be used for at all and I worry about the "something new begins" option leading to game halts if not selected. This one might need to be more specific.
-The first two options for Sidereal Astrology doesn't work because NPCs never roll.
-Going back to the Solar moves, "They with perfect poise under pressure" under Change direction sounds like a typo.

Hope this helps out again. Also hope I'm not heaping this on too heavy.

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