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duck monster posted:I TOO am angry at women for some reason? Every time the whole clusterfuck seems to settle down, someone does something to make the whole thing light up again. Its been going like this for almost a year now. This thread wouldn't be needed if people would stop shooting themselves in the foot.
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Jun 26, 2015 14:29
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Also what's D&D's stance on hot twinks cosplaying as anime characters?
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Jun 26, 2015 14:30
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Rainbow Unicorn posted:Video games aren't that important in the scheme of things and also this entire drama was silly as hell but otoh a bunch of actual women were actually driven out of their homes via tactics that would be punishable by prison time if only law enforcement took things that originate on the internet seriously. So idk, I get where people are coming from when they are dismissive of this entire situation because it's stupid as hell, but also, I'm a woman who plays games and occasionally creates a half finished pile of poo poo that could maybe one day be an okay indie game if I had an attention span longer than an average goldfish's, and part of why I don't pursue it more heavily is because a part of me thinks "oh well if I ever finished something and had to market it there's a non-zero chance hateful people would find my personal info and make my life a living hell." So I do other safer things instead, which is fine, but how many potentially cool games aren't being made because of this? who knows. I understand completely, however with the sheer metric fuckload of trolling and dumb comments being made, it's impossible to separate any real threats from the garbage. There isn't a feasible way to monitor all that, so it'll get ignored. Besides, the internet is about as separate from real life as you make it. You want to be safe? Don't put anything that could lead back to you on social media.
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Jun 26, 2015 15:05
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Rainbow Unicorn posted:This is true but also a little misleading and dismissive because in some industries it is increasingly a requirement to put yourself way, way out there on social media, enough so that if an online community decided to suddenly make you a target of harassment you'd be totally screwed with very little recourse. Obviously at the end of the day people who put themselves on social media are choosing to do so, but sometimes it is a very real decision between "welp, do I find a different job/career or do I risk the possibility that somewhere someday a bunch of ill adjusted sociopaths will post my address and phone number to an online message board and harass me for a year+ straight" It's hosed up, but also not really a problem. Set up a idealized facebook/twitter page for the companies and a more personal facebook/twitter for friends. With privacy settings you can easily manage who gets to see what. There's still a risk of getting your picture backtracked to you, I'll admit that. But I wholeheartedly believe that if you're extremely careful, you have nothing to fear when it comes to getting doxxed. Peel posted:I wonder if one background factor in this is a collision of cultures between people used to pseudonymous communities held separate from real life (and where anything goes), and newer Internet users who treat social media as you're encouraged to, as an adjunct to your real identity. As someone from a earlier internet generation, it's always a little strange for me when people do their best to put their names out into the internet as much as they can. Also taking facebook/twitter extremely seriously, if this gamergate mess is to be believed. It's the complete opposite of what I was taught about the internet in the day. The fact that we're actually seriously discussing calling the police to arrest people for trolling someone is, to a part of me, completely surreal. This mess is basically the old and the new internet generations clashing. The old are making fun of the new, who deal with trolls and shitposting in a fundamentally different level.
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Jun 26, 2015 15:31
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Effectronica posted:The basic assumptions about human behavior on display here are astounding, as is the belief that existence should consist of carefully siloed identities from here to eternity. Normally I enjoy it when guys stick things into my mouth, but I never said that you need to make endless identities for yourself. Just a private one, and a business one. Which isn't that strange, I think?
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Jun 26, 2015 15:48
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Meme Emulator posted:Can someone clear something up for me? Were there PoCs in medieval Bohemia or not? Well according to a twitter nerd there were, and according to a Bohemian man and the history people he hired they weren't. So I guess the truth is in the middle or something..
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Jun 26, 2015 16:51
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Meme Emulator posted:I mean theres a lot to be said for Chun Lis design because she was made i 1992 or whatever so the incredibly musclar legs were a semi-daring choice for the time, especially when she was the only female representation in SF2. But its silly to pretend there is a lot of diversity in body shapes. Actually that design came because the guy drawing her had a muscle fetish.
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Jun 26, 2015 17:05
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Meme Emulator posted:Thank goodness they are, and that Capcom sells character packs, because I enjoy dressing up women with no agency into whatever outfits I desire as if they were my own personal dollies. They're not real women. They're only polygons.
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Jun 26, 2015 17:11
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Neo-Hellthread is moving as fast as Hellthread did in its hey-day. Truly the second coming. Tbh I don't really give a gently caress about whether video games are sexist or not. I enjoy them regardless. I said come in! posted:Maybe this is true (I'm going with it doesn't though), but this doesn't apply to Street Fighter. He's right though. And I play a shitton of SF.
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Jun 26, 2015 17:36
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I said come in! posted:Are you really arguing this is a sexualized Street Fighter character? Considering her (training?) bra is visible in her idle stance and victory screen, yes she is sexualized.
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Jun 26, 2015 17:39
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I said come in! posted:lmao you can't be serious. Look man, I love Makoto. I use her a lot. But she's still sexualized. Look up pictures of female karatekas and see what they're wearing under their gi. Now look that Makoto is wearing a bra and the top of her gi is loose. I like the design anyway, but if you don't see how that might be seen as sexualized then I dont know what to tell you.
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Jun 26, 2015 17:44
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paranoid randroid posted:hey can one of you obsessive freakshows at least fill me in if that milo guy is still around trying to radicalize resentful shut-ins That fucker hit the motherload. Nerds are basically falling over him and once he releases his retarded book about Gamergate he'll make mad bank.
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Jun 26, 2015 17:45
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I said come in! posted:Seeing a sports bra is your standard of sexist is beyond loving absurd. I can't believe you are not capable of seeing this. The bra is not the issue here, dude. Its more about "was it really necessary to have her bra be exposed like that?". Making her clothing be loose in such a way to show off her rack(In a bra) is a bit off, man. But its not like its going to change anytime soon. The Fighting Game Community doesn't really care about this and they're the ones driving the sales anyway.
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Jun 26, 2015 17:56
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Meme Emulator posted:Im starting to think the people who make these arguments just dont get aroused by womens clothes that much. Pretty much every outfit worn by every fighting game char is incredibly sexy.  I dont know man...
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Jun 26, 2015 18:11
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Control Volume posted:Gamergate is bad Indeed, let us laugh at it.
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Jun 26, 2015 20:06
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Bedlamdan posted:Neil Gaiman's random gay genie sex scene in American Gods is also unironically art. I need to reread American Gods...
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Jun 26, 2015 20:17
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Shadoer posted:Actually let's just quickly go over the Gamergate/Victimhood moneywagon hall of fame Basically, get involved in gamergate and make big buxx.
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Jun 26, 2015 20:30
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Al Cowens posted:
Its funny how much the fighting game community doesn't give a gently caress about any of this. They're just playing their fighting games. There was the outcry about Aris being an idiot a long time ago, but nothing came out of that.
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Jun 27, 2015 09:31
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Aside from being a feminist movie, Fury Road can also be seen as a anti-authority movie: Joe is Head of State, Bullet Farmer is the Justice System and People Eater is Big Banks. Also nobody seems to notice a bit in Fury Road: The women were going to cross The Salt, in what was heavily implied to result in death, until a man told them what they should be doing instead. Now I don't particularly give a gently caress about feminist ideas in my movies, but that kinda stands out. But returning to Gamergate. It's sad that the Zoe Quinn stuff was the Franz Ferdinant situation for the whole movement. People've been unhappy for ages regarding games journalism(as insignificant as it may be) and I think that if something else would have kicked it off, the whole thing would have gone a little bit better than its currently doing. But that could also just be me being naive and thinking people are better than they actually are.
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Jun 28, 2015 21:40
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botany posted:I honestly haven't followed this shitstorm at all, but I like to play vidja games, and I'm a pretty big leftist, so I might as well ask: what exactly is the scandal at the heart of gamergate? Like, outside of all the drama, I suppose the pro-gamergate people have some point that they want to make. What is that point? What was the Bad Thing that means we need to have this discussion? Why should I start caring about this stuff? Genuine question, btw. Games journalism. The fact that game reviews were paid off and talk about "unimportant" issues (Treatment of woman in game, giving game lower score because of it). That, and games journalism calling gamers "entitled" "whiny" etc. People have been angry at this but have mostly ignored it because what can you do. Then came the Zoe post and the mass removals of posts in reddit/forums which was the Franz Ferdinand moment that ended up kicking this whole thing off. The main thing is "games journalism is corrupt and we want to improve it". You shouldn't care. Its meaningless.
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Jun 29, 2015 09:33
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Zeitgueist posted:You see, it's really about ethics in video games journalism. It is, and the whole thing did get several sites to have/update their ethics codes. However, this being a 4chan campaign that mutated into a twitter campaign, a lot of vile people joined up to share their horrible opinion. Then the media simplified the issue by adding Sarkeezy to the gamergate mix, which caused more vile people to add to this horrible katamari. That, and the whole thing kicking off with the Zoepost means that already you had vile people operating with the well meaning people. The whole thing was a good idea at the very beginning, then it turned horrible. Same as any 4chan project, really.
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Jun 29, 2015 09:41
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Unfunny Poster posted:Why aren't the GamerGate people putting their efforts towards getting the AAA publishers to stop doing lovely anti-consumer practices? Games journalism sites are smaller, so its easier to hit them than say...Activision or EA. Anything that gg can do against Activision or EA is easily drowned out by the people who don't care about this and just buy games they enjoy from them.
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Jun 29, 2015 09:55
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:
Pretty much. Everyone knows that a visible ethics policy doesn't really change anything. If anything, people will hide their tracks even better now if they're doing shady poo poo.
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Jun 29, 2015 11:21
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punakone posted:Taking a step sideways, Im interested in the demographics of this, what proportion of people on both side are American? Aside from those already mentioned, you have the Vanishing of Ethan Carter guy(Adrian Chmielarz) who's Polish. Sargon of loving Akkad is British. That's all the non Americans I can think of in this mess. They're on the pro side. Archer666 fucked around with this message at 09:53 on Jul 2, 2015 |
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Jul 2, 2015 09:29
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Obdicut posted:It's completely valid to think that 'apartheid' is too toxic to use in a game, and to not trust that Deus Ex is going to treat it seriously enough--or that any game is. I disagree. Personally, I believe everything should be fair game... in games. Games have tackled some pretty horrific stuff before, like wars and living in an Eastern bloc hell during the Cold War. Kojima's even going to tackle child soldiers and other cruel, twisted things. It's pushing boundaries. And if they fall short, then maybe a more talented person will come along and make something better with the subject. We never should shy away from exploring the less pleasant side of the world.
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Jul 2, 2015 11:17
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Cingulate posted:Okay, let's just see where this takes us. Why not? If you have the mental fortitude to make these things and can actually wrap something meaningful around them (Making it about atrocities of (post)war, extreme poverty, a message against the "Bullying makes you a man" idiots), then yeah. Its possible to explore horrific issues without being in favor of them. Obdicut posted:The people objecting don't think they're actually exploring it, they think they're using it to generate controversy and make money off of it. I think that games can explore serious subjects. Ironically, the GGers in that 'deepfreeze' manifesto don't seem to agree, they want games to be evaluated only 'factually' and 'objectively', which is impossible to do with any medium that's pushing boundaries. Previous Deus Ex games were about the divide between poor and rich, metal and flesh. This one is trying to explore a different kind of divide between people. While I understand the cynicism of "Oh they're using that word just to make waves and get money", I'm personally more optimistic and am hoping they'll handle the subject with care. Also, did those objecting the issue read what one of the people working on the game wrote about this issue? What did they think of it?
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Jul 2, 2015 11:45
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Cingulate posted:Do you think we are insufficiently spreading the message that child sex abuse rings are bad? Do you think there is any ambiguity here? Personally, I think we're okay on that front. But apparently, the hypothetical person you invented who made Sim ChildRape disagrees.
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Jul 2, 2015 11:52
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Obdicut posted:Those objecting probably didn't do any one thing, since they're different people. As I said, I had the 'what the gently caress' moment, I read the explanation, I went 'eh', and I'm waiting to see how they deal with it. My main feeling is even if they do deal well with it, there wasn't any reason for them to call it 'mechanical apartheid', it would have, if a true exploration of apartheid, arisen from people playing the game. That they trademarked the phrase is a little weird on top of that. To put it another way, I'd like to be able to judge myself what the system they've created in the game is, if they start out by calling it 'mechanical apartheid' then they're forcing me into a specific way of thinking about the system they've created. That they particularly used 'apartheid' rather than 'segregation' is also weird, since apartheid is a very particular term for a very particular thing that occurred in South Africa. We do not, generally, call the segregation that occurred in the US 'apartheid', because there are salient distinctions between it and apartheid. Trademarking the phrase is weird, I completely agree. Not sure why they did that, though I'll be happy to add giant "MECHANICAL APARTHEID" posters to my collection of weird ads, right next to a poster of the Wehrmacht marching on the steps of the White House that some other game had. I think if that they had used "segregation", it still would have made a stink. Both terms aren't exactly words you throw around carelessly... In the end, there would have been a controversy, regardless of their word choice. But I do get where you're coming from, I would have preferred to explore the world and see it for myself, instead of having this trademarked phrase basically telling me what to expect. That's Marketing for you, I guess...
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Jul 2, 2015 12:07
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The Droid posted:I'm not blaming you specifically, but this sort of thing is also something that's been happening a lot that people have a problem with. I could understand if its a 30 minute rant by a nutso like Sargon of Akkad or whatever but you also get things like people commenting on the content of the zoepost without so much a skimming it and relying on hearsay etc. I'd argue that the one Sargon vid of him getting trashed by a feminist is a p good summary of the regular gg'er and that people should watch it. And I'm saying that as a former gg'er.
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Jul 2, 2015 17:30
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ikanreed posted:That's where the real dishonest fuckery of this movement comes in. They're idiots, basically. They just follow the loudest voice and if the loudest voice has no loving clue what he's talking about, you get people who think that "criticism = censorship".
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Jul 2, 2015 17:55
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Mel Mudkiper posted:So are we. I'm not really certain where sexual arousal comes into play here. Then again, I could just be an autist who doesn't much care about a sexualized body in a video game, unless its something related to the goal of the game. And even then, sexuality never enters my mind when I'm acting on it. This concept is strange to me.. And I totally accept the possibility that I'm weird in this and that everyone feels this or something.
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Jul 2, 2015 20:33
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Mel Mudkiper posted:One of the dangers of all of this is thinking you are in conscious control of the context in which you experience the event or that you will even be consciously aware of the contextual symbolism of the event. That...That sounds really vague, man. Can you post me some links to further read up on this? These signifiers that we dont perceive and interpret are just useless, then?
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Jul 2, 2015 20:45
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Guess I'm an idiot. I knew about the effects of advertisement and marketing and subconscious influence of those, but I never actually thought that it could also apply to other forms of media. Gotta think a bit broader about these things 
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Jul 2, 2015 22:38
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Exmond posted:So what do you guys think of Jennifer Dawe's game being boycotted by Anti-GG? Do you think its odd that the creators political leanings are starting to influence game purchasing? Not really. People boycott things all the time for the silliest reasons.
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Jul 3, 2015 16:18
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Cingulate posted:http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3663824&userid=118075 Even thought I not always agree with him, SMG is still a goddamn hero.
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Jul 3, 2015 17:03
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People forget or just dont know that us Poles love our violent games of mediocre quality. Really, Hatred coming out of Poland is no surprise. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRGIww533Y4
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Jul 3, 2015 21:05
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Ddraig posted:Britain First have a rather interesting angle (or used to, at least) in that they sort of attach their more reprehensible stuff to rather innocuous news stories and really try to capitalize on memes and stuff. Their facebook group is quite likely to have a bunch of lol cats mixed in with their Global Islamic Conspiracy stuff. Hmm, what about a skull throne? Would that be better? (What I'm saying is that a mountain of skulls pic is inconsequential, but funny cause we're talking about an adult here)
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Jul 3, 2015 21:11
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Ddraig posted:If Gabe has survived this long in the state he's in chances are good internet death threats aren't going to push him over the edge. No you see going after Gabe Newell is completely fine because he's white and rich, so that's "punching up".
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Jul 4, 2015 15:59
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Obdicut posted:Nope. It turns out nobody is Gamersgate. I thought that deepfreeze was the GG website, but it turns out that that's 'extremist'. Apparently GG doesn't actually exist, which is great, because if it did it would be really stupid. The specter of Gamergate hanging around the twitters
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Jul 4, 2015 16:49
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Everything can have a political meaning, but you always have the choice of ignoring it. There's nothing wrong with enjoying something and letting it politics float in the wind.
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Jul 4, 2015 22:27
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