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Germstore
Oct 17, 2012

A Serious Candidate For a Serious Time
There's a more general issue with software when you ask 'why does x feature not exist.' Features don't exist by default. 'Is this feature good' is only the first step. There's also, 'do we have the time,' 'are there other features that are higher priority,' 'is this a feature that only one person wants, one person who may be using it as a talking point and not actually buying FIFA16 either way?'

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Germstore
Oct 17, 2012

A Serious Candidate For a Serious Time
Anita's videos that I've watched are really bad. I've only watched a couple, the Hunger Games and the Beyond Good and Evil videos, because life is short.

Most of what she says is basically "Beyond Good and Evil the book report" which is uncontroversial because it's just Cliff's Notes. The one point she made that is worth discussion, a female character saving a male character is not the same as the opposite, is left as a given without further statement.

This makes me wonder if the people defending her videos have actually watched any because they are just bad.

Germstore
Oct 17, 2012

A Serious Candidate For a Serious Time

Who What Now posted:

The only defense of Anita's videos that I've seen are that their quality, or debatable lack thereof, are not deserving of the intense vitriol that she receives for them.

Fair enough.

Germstore
Oct 17, 2012

A Serious Candidate For a Serious Time

Jack Gladney posted:

What is bad about them? Is there something mistaken in the claim that there are very different narrative associations in American media between a man saving a woman and a woman saving a man?

This was kind of my point. Have you watched the video? Watch the video, and tell me if you were educated, enlightened or entertained.

Germstore
Oct 17, 2012

A Serious Candidate For a Serious Time

SedanChair posted:

When society demonstrates a sufficient understanding of feminism at the intro level, maybe she will post more advanced videos. Until then, it looks like intro level is what is needed.

They aren't educational though because she takes anything about feminism that she says as a given, and flies past it to do more my first book report.

Germstore
Oct 17, 2012

A Serious Candidate For a Serious Time

SedanChair posted:

It is a given.

If you're trying to educate someone on feminism, why would the one thing you say about feminism. If I put up a video about math, but the only thing I said about math was, "as we know the circumference of a circle is two pi radians," and then went on to talk about trains for something for another five minutes would that be a good math video?

Germstore
Oct 17, 2012

A Serious Candidate For a Serious Time

Ddraig posted:

Here's the basic you need to know about Feminism in order to understand Anita's videos:

"Women are people too, and media often depicts them in a way that denies them agency"

That's pretty much it.

That doesn't make the videos good. Is she preaching to the choir or educating the children because they're not appropriate for either. She can't be both doing feminism remediation and taking remedial points as a given.

Germstore
Oct 17, 2012

A Serious Candidate For a Serious Time

Dr. Stab posted:

I think that most people who are completely uneducated about feminism are still actually at the point where they think that women are people. The entirety of her videos is demonstrating the media depictions bit.

What does that have to do with her videos being bad?

Germstore
Oct 17, 2012

A Serious Candidate For a Serious Time

Jack Gladney posted:

What concepts in the videos are too sophisticated for a general audience?

She neither goes in depth or builds upon any idea she presents. She should do one of these. I don't really care which, but she does neither.

Germstore
Oct 17, 2012

A Serious Candidate For a Serious Time
I liked in Saint Row where Benjamin King treating you like a real rear end in a top hat for running people over after no one else gave a gently caress the entire game. That was a good game.

Germstore
Oct 17, 2012

A Serious Candidate For a Serious Time

Dominic White posted:

No, but it would be nice if the woman got some kind of character arc. When a character is purely a damsel in distress (background until kidnapped, motivation until rescued), that's pretty bad writing all round, and in the VAST majority of cases of such lazy writing, the character/furniture is a woman.

She said the same thing about Jade in her Beyond Good and Evil video, and she was the main character, but apparently it still isn't okay for a man to rescue a woman.

Germstore
Oct 17, 2012

A Serious Candidate For a Serious Time
She also criticized The Hunger Games movie because Katniss wasn't affected by Foxface's death the same way she was affected by Rue's, which is an odd opinion to have because Katniss never talked to Foxface and never bothered to learn her name. Anita is a spring of bad opinions.

Germstore
Oct 17, 2012

A Serious Candidate For a Serious Time

Dominic White posted:

For someone that you don't care about the opinions of, you seem to know approximately fifty times more about Sarkeesian's thoughts on things than I do or ever could want to.

Don't you think that's weird?

I've watched two of her videos; Beyond Good and Evil, Hunger Games. Both were bad, so I didn't watch more.

e: and her "just because you profit from patriarchy does not mean..." keynote.

Germstore
Oct 17, 2012

A Serious Candidate For a Serious Time

Mel Mudkiper posted:

Are you seriously reducing yourself to attacking my avatar?


Here is what I found. Show me where she says it should never be done.

Feminist Frequency ‏@femfreq Jan 31
Dying Light has a Damsel in Distress storyline. Dear game developers, it’s 2015 aren’t you embarrassed by this yet?!

Feminist Frequency ‏@femfreq Feb 1
When female characters appear capable before being damsel’d it does not make it better. It makes it worse. It's literally disempowering.

Feminist Frequency ‏@femfreq Feb 1
The villain’s dialog in Dying Light about damseling Jade: "The last time we met you took something of mine, now I took something of yours.”

minist Frequency ‏@femfreq Feb 1
That Dying Light quote is damning because regardless of her strengths she is still reduced to an object in a competition between men.

Feminist Frequency ‏@femfreq Feb 1
Reminder: In the game of patriarchy, women are not the opposing team, they are the ball.

and that is all I could find on the subject. No where does she argue to never use the trope again. She points out it is embarrassing and disempowering. Which it is.

That's an awfully razor thin distinction.

Germstore
Oct 17, 2012

A Serious Candidate For a Serious Time

Mel Mudkiper posted:

How so? Critics point out issues with narratives and themes all the time. It doesn't mean they are demanding the wholesale extinction on their usage.

If you want to say someone is calling for banning something you need to show it. Criticism is not censorship.

People don't tend to call specific instances of a thing as 'embarrassing' without some implication that they want the thing to stop being done.

Germstore
Oct 17, 2012

A Serious Candidate For a Serious Time

Plom Bar posted:

If you're looking for justification to paint Sarkeesian as an Enemy of Art, I suppose it would be.

Or perhaps just as a haver-of-bad-opinions.

Germstore
Oct 17, 2012

A Serious Candidate For a Serious Time

Plom Bar posted:

To borrow a catchphrase from today's youth, where is the lie in those tweets?

The operative word is 'opinions'. You will notice I have not said her tweets should be banned, just that she should be embarrassed by them

Germstore
Oct 17, 2012

A Serious Candidate For a Serious Time

Plom Bar posted:

Right. And I'm asking you why. Why should she be embarrassed by them? What is so wrong about them, divorced from your belief that she's actively calling for the banning of the trope?

I haven't said at any point that she is trying to ban anything so I guess congrats on winning an argument that I wasn't participating in.

Germstore
Oct 17, 2012

A Serious Candidate For a Serious Time

Wow. How is wanting people to stop doing a thing the same as calling for its ban?

I can also draw razor thing distinctions.

Germstore
Oct 17, 2012

A Serious Candidate For a Serious Time

Mel Mudkiper posted:

Fair enough, I can see how sexualization might not be, but I think its hard to claim objectification in particular is not misogynistic. Objectification is the removal of a woman's personal agency and reducing her to an object meant for the pleasure of men. If that is not misogynistic, very few things are.


So this was all a set-up to be deliberately petulant then? Fair enough.

I accepted your distinction, but when my argument requires the exact same distinction you don't accept it?

Germstore
Oct 17, 2012

A Serious Candidate For a Serious Time

Plom Bar posted:

Fine. Ignore that last clause, then. What about the opinions expressed in those tweets is so wrong?

That having a man rescue a woman is not intrinsically embarrassing.

Germstore
Oct 17, 2012

A Serious Candidate For a Serious Time

Mel Mudkiper posted:

"This should be stopped" and "This should be banned" are synonymous. "This is embarrassing" and "this should never be done" are not. You are either deliberately trying to muddy the distinction between "embarassing" and "should be stopped" or genuinely do not see the gap between their intentions.

"You should stop doing this" and "you should be stopped from doing this" are different things.

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Germstore
Oct 17, 2012

A Serious Candidate For a Serious Time

Plom Bar posted:

....yes, actually.

Speaking of an enemy of art.

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