The Gamergate: Girls have cooties and they are infecting Mega Man!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The Gamergate: Girls have cooties and they are infecting Mega Man!

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I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

PupsOfWar posted:

Wait are gamerdweebs still On about this?

Not really, no. Twitter along with the help of a 3rd party feminist group, like two months ago, conducted research on harassment on Twitter, and they found that even last year hardly any of the harassment was coming from Gamergate.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 15:46

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 08:34

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Shugojin posted:

I think they all just sit around on subreddits and circlejerk about whichever evil feminazi is keeping them down now and occasionally threaten to rape and murder Anita Sarkeesian.

Anita Sarkeesian has completely trashed her reputation at this point. Her Twitter account, along with McIntosh, are a comedy gold mine of horrible opinions. These two people are quite literally never satisfied with anything, ever. Their presence on Twitter is just endless complaining about how every single video game is problematic. They wait around for the next big video game release and then they trash the game with awful opinions that are never accurate. Their Witcher 3 and Bayonetta 2 opinions actually caused a lot of supporters to back away from them.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 15:54

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

icantfindaname posted:

This game about a big-boobed British-accented dominatrix wearing a skintight suit of her own heel-length hair, I don't see how this could be sexist. Nor the game with prostitute trading cards and sex scenes with them. Will the feminazi media never stop?

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but it's all about context. Bayonetta makes her outfit and behavior her own, it's clearly shown to not be in the service of others. This is why it's not sexist. Clothing by itself has nothing to do with sexism.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 16:00

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

InsanityIsCrazy posted:

Wait, I thought Bayonetta was empowering to some?

Have you read Liana Kerzner?

She is empowering. She is the most progressive video game character ever, not to mention Bayonetta 2 was pretty much the best game of 2014.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 16:02

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

icantfindaname posted:

bayonetta doesn't make anything her own, because she's not a person, she's a fictional character created by a japanese dude as fetish pornography after he visited a dominatrix on a trip to london.

Again, it's about nuance and context. The fact that it's a fictional character isn't relevant.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 16:05

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Helsing posted:

What has Sarkessian done to trash her reputation? (Also: what reputation?) I watched the first episode of her youtube series on sexism in video games about a year ago when I first heard about her and couldn't really understand why she would be a figure of controversy.

She keeps attacking her supporters, and going after games that no one else agree's with her on, including her supporters.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 16:07

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

poptart_fairy posted:

This is kind of the thing really. Even with a surface level grasp and explanation of what she's talking about, stuff like Other M and the like gets glossed over in favour of her rambling about riding boots looking like high heels.

She has legitimate points but the way she expresses them, and her apparent tolerance of Mcintosh allowing her to use her face as a mouthpiece, really drags down whatever's being said.

The thing I don't like is that her Women vs. Tropes video series, the entire thesis is that sexism in video games will cause more sexism in society. There is no research to support this and it's worrying that she refuses to cite the research she is getting this from. She has no authority or credibility to make the claims she does. People should understand that the extent of her research is cherry picking examples from games.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 16:19

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Geralt in Witcher 3 was another really great character that Anita and McIntosh should have been praising but were too retarded to read the character. They kept (really just McIntosh) claiming that Geralt had no emotions and was angry all the time. The day I read those series of Tweets, I also played Witcher 3, not more then 30 minutes after reading those Tweets in fact. And then within minutes of that was a cut scene where Geralt shows concern for a female character that he views very highly of, and then another cutscene where he displays humor and tries to talk another character out of fighting him.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 16:27

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Meme Emulator posted:

Can someone clear something up for me? Were there PoCs in medieval Bohemia or not?

There weren't. The argument that Witcher 3 has to have PoC in the game is really stupid either way. Not having them isn't racist. It doesn't mean anything.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 16:47

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Let us English posted:

He's a lot more expressive than most gruff protagonists. His entire character arc in the story revolves around his adopted daughter and how his, his partner's, and other adults' decisions do or do not inculcate a sense of responsibility and agency in her. It was one of the best displays of parenthood in a game alongside The Last of Us and far more nuanced than that game.

Nailed it exactly. McIntosh reduced Geralt to being an always angry, always solving problems with violence character. Ignoring the fact that Witcher 3 is a multiple choice storyline where the player controls Geralts actions and the character almost always has a peaceful or violent solution to every encounter. McIntosh's reasoning for this? Because of Geralts voice. :cripes:

That rant on his Twitter turned a lot of supporters away and I think convinced quite a few people that FemFrequency is a troll/click bait account at this point.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 16:53

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Shadoer posted:

Personally my sticks in #gamergate were free speech and anti-censorship. Ethics in game journalism, while nice, wasn't really a good enough reason to pay attention.

That and I have to admit Brianna Wu's Tweets and McIntosh's Tweets are a sort of cathartic dose of crazy.

Brianna Wu is probably the best out of all of this. Between alienating her own employees, killing her dog, attacking other indie game devs, being an arrogant prick, and faking online harassment and lying about having to flee her home, there is a lot of great stuff to read on her Twitter on a daily basis.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 16:57

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Effectronica posted:

There is no such thing. Assuming you meant "what are the other options available", you could always design characters that don't have sexualized costumes, have figures that aren't improbable hourglasses, etc. because these things are not necessary for good character design. See, for example, in SSF2T alone, how you have body types as diverse as T. Hawk, E. Honda, Dhalsim, and Zangief- but only for men.

lmao, what? I assume at this point you're just having a go at people and messing around.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 17:00

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Sinnlos posted:

Hmm yeah I wanna play as big titty lady, other big titty lady, or phat rear end lady. Or maybe I play as short skirt girl.

This is an absurd stupid rear end thing to say.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 17:04

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Effectronica posted:

Zangief's muscle-bound figure is pretty distinct visually from Ryu/Ken/Fei Long/Guile/Bison's figures.

Except by your own argument earlier, this isn't valid because it's a fictional character. So according to you it only applies to male characters?

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 17:05

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Sinnlos posted:

Yeah C Viper, Sakura, Chun Li, Cammy, Rose, Poison, ect. aren't sexualized at all you're right.

All female characters need to be fully clothed and can't show any skin what so ever or it's sexist as gently caress and oppressive to women all over the world.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 17:09

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Sinnlos posted:

It is when every single female character is pretty explicitly designed to be j/o material.

Except it's not every single female character, actually it's none at all. Clothing choices doesn't equal jack off material. If you're drawing that conclusion that is entirely on you.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 17:13

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Sinnlos posted:

Oh, street fighter's character designs were done by a woman rather than a dude projecting his fetishes and power fantasies?

There are female artists that have worked on the Street Fighter games, same for Bayonetta.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 17:15

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Effectronica posted:

Don't use words like "argument" when you're plainly too stupid to know what they mean. Also, that's not what I argued. In fact, these are facets of the same argument, but it is as beyond you as geometry is beyond a gecko.

You said no fictional characters have agency, you said no diversity can exist among fictional characters because they are made by the artist. You can't say your argument applies to male characters and then decide to have it not apply to female characters as well.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 17:18

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Bholder posted:

Does it matter?

It doesn't. Posters like Effectronica trying to argue artist intent have no idea what they are talking about.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 17:19

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Effectronica posted:

I didn't say any of those things, and if this is the level of delusion hellthreaders operate under, it may be the case that only kicking the bucket will prove an effective treatment for their insanity.

"I'm a literal child that can't accept different views of the world." How does it feel to be an adult that hasn't progressed beyond the age of 16?

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 17:22

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Effectronica posted:

And now you're arguing that treating mental disorders is childish! Will you stop yourself before you start talking about how the Jew is a pestilence on humanity?

At least we got it out of the way that you have a mental disorder.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 17:24

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Obdicut posted:

The male characters in games are much, much more varied, in attractiveness, character, and otherwise, than female characters.

Maybe this is true (I'm going with it doesn't though), but this doesn't apply to Street Fighter.

Obdicut posted:

Our society is way sexist
Gaming, which is still very male dominated in terms of both the creative teams and the consumers, especially the vocal ones, is way sexist.
There are games that have some sexist elements and some feminist elements since life is complicated.

Actually the consumer demographic for video games now is 50% female.

I said come in! fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Jun 26, 2015

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 17:31

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Sinnlos posted:

It most certainly applies to Street Fighter, the game where every female character is sexualized. Even if you argue that all the male characters are sexualized too, and you can, it doesn't make it OK to design every single character in that manner.

Are you really arguing this is a sexualized Street Fighter character?

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 17:37

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Archer666 posted:

Considering her push up is visible in her idle stance and victory screen, yes she is sexualized.

lmao you can't be serious.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 17:39

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Archer666 posted:

Look man, I love Makoto. I use her a lot. But she's still sexualized. Look up pictures of female karatekas and see what they're wearing under their gi. Now look that Makoto is wearing a bra and the top of her gi is loose.

I like the design anyway, but if you don't see how that might be seen as sexualized then I dont know what to tell you.

Seeing a sports bra is your standard of sexist is beyond loving absurd. I can't believe you are not capable of seeing this.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 17:46

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Disinterested posted:

I'm not sure what you interpret this to mean, but it really just demonstrates that medieval racial attitudes were just radically different to modern racial attitudes - as well as being quite exceptional.

I've taken classes in college on medieval societies, and stuff back then was weird to say the least.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 17:50

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Meme Emulator posted:

The demographics for fighting games havent shifted an iota from where they began in the 90s, so the purpose is to tittilate all the boys and men playing those games as they are still not popular with women.

I play these games and afterwards do not go off and masturbate to the female characters. So like I said earlier, kinda, if someone is doing this, or see's it as sexualized, then that is entirely on them.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 17:52

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Sinnlos posted:

That's good for you. It doesn't change that the character designs include elements that would actually be a hindrance when fighting, and only serve to enhance and emphasize characteristics that are consistently considered sexual by societal standards.

Which societal standards? There are hundreds of them all throughout the world. Games these days are typical made by a very diverse group of people with different cultural backgrounds and views of the world. You're shoving your western world standards down everyones throat, and lets be honest here, western (American especially) standards are largely hypocritical and bullshit.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 18:00

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Postorder Trollet89 posted:

She's not, but the fact that she's basically one of the few characters in Street fighter who isn't speaks against the point you're trying to make.

No? My point was that not every female Street Fighter character is sexualized. The person I quoted said it was every female character. Clearly not true. I don't think any of the street fighter characters are sexualized.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 18:04

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Effectronica posted:

That's not what I said. I'm starting to suspect that you're angry and mentally handicapped.

Every single post you have made in this thread is calling someone who doesn't agree with you, mentally handicapped. It's almost as if I was 110% correct about you be a literal child.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 18:19

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

natetimm posted:

Stop harassing us! We're going to leave our homes in fear!

I'm triggered right now.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 18:21

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

poptart_fairy posted:

I am curious, however, under what circumstances a "sexualized" character would be acceptable if created by a female, uh, creator. Everyone seems to be bouncing back and forth between the fictional/not fictional thing and I don't see any actual criteria getting talked about.

I remember reading somewhere that either the concept artist, or 3d model artist at Platinum Games and working on Bayonetta, were female employees.

The character Quiet, in Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain, was created by a female employee at Konami, although the idea for her was created by Kojima.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 18:24

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Meme Emulator posted:

Id say its ok in a game designed for men intended to be a power fantasy. The problem is thats also 99% of the other games out there.

Did the developers say Street Fighter was a game designed for men and intended to be a power fantasy? The marketing certainly doesn't give that away. Women do play Street Fighter. What about Call of Duty? A game largely assumed to be male dominated, but still has a large female playerbase, and recently gave you the addition of playing as a female character in multiplayer. Quake 2 (also its next two sequels) was another so called designed for masculine men games, yet let you choose a female character for multiplayer. That came out in 1997.

The argument that games are targeted towards men only is really flimsy and there's no evidence to support it. Game developers for the most part do not target gender. Its a myth that has held on somehow despite it never being true.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 18:34

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Dapper Dan posted:

It also isn't a controversial idea that someone else runs her twitter. This has been done very frequently for celebrities and other organizations.

Anita needs to make that clear then. Both her and McIntosh pretend the FemFreq Twitter account is all Anita's.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 18:38

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Meme Emulator posted:

Spike TV notoriously fired one of the people they had in charge of scheduling when CSI reruns pulled in a huge female audience which the advertisers were not paying for.

This is a totally different situation from what we are talking about. Game developers have no reason to care who buys their games, as long as their games sell. Spike TV on the other hand loses advertisers if the wrong people view their ads and then don't buy the products.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 18:40

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Literally The Worst posted:

Correct, marketing demographics don't exist, males aged 18-24 are not a bigger target than females of the same age range

Jesus fuckin Christ

I'm saying it doesn't matter. The music industry found this out in the late 19th century. For entertainment, targeting demographics is pointless.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 18:41

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Literally The Worst posted:

Do you have any idea at all how marketing works

I watch a lot of game trailers and I can't recall a single one where I felt that it was specifically targeting men. They were entirely gender neutral marketing material.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 18:43

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Literally The Worst posted:

Okay Negativo McWrongshit

We've already established that you're an idiot, stop beating that horse.

You've yet to produce an ounce of evidence that shows i'm wrong. I'm not obligated to do the thinking for you.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 18:47

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 08:34

I said come in!: Jun 22, 2004

Literally The Worst posted:

The game where oorah manly man shoot a bunch of dudes is not targeted towards any one particular audience, as evidenced by the fact that there are women who play it, this is a thing you're saying and it's wrong

No it's not. I don't give a gently caress how much that triggers you, i'm never going to think what I said was wrong. There is zero evidence to support what you are saying.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2015 18:48

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The Gamergate: Girls have cooties and they are infecting Mega Man!

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