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InsanityIsCrazy posted:Since this is a new thread, what forms of sexism stand out most to you? He's upset the majority of female characters have the same skin tone as him. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 26, 2015 15:25
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This is the ending to the game people have called "very realistic". There was worry and genuine concern that it would surely make people into violent neo-nazis and/or cause societal collapse, and as such the principles concerning the freedom of artistic expression should be curtailed, as it would be in cases of actual snuff films or child pornography, to censor this harmful material and prevent whatever devastating tears to the delicate fabric of civilization that binds us all together in mutual respect should it be released to the general public: (please do not watch if you care about spoilers to the overarching narrative of "Hatred"): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9m7EKBof6g I, personally, am not of the opinion that the failure of the letter writing campaign to Steam designed to keep "Hatred" from being greenlit has resulted in this video being a literal window into our literal future, much less something that affects anyone in any long-term way, ever. My evidence to support this claim is the actual videogame "Hatred".
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Jul 3, 2015 20:28
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It's because Feminist Frequency does really bad critiques that constantly leave themselves open to ridicule while receiving an almost smothering amount of attention from the media. I hope this helped clear up whatever you found strange and really weird and baffling.
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Jul 4, 2015 17:14
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Jack Gladney posted:What is really bad about the Feminist Frequency videos? They are a window into the dry, grey, joyless Hell of people who pass powder-dry TVTropes folk feminism through a medium they dislike with empty, assembly-line misery as their only guiding light. There's no discussion, there's no nuanced perspective, there's no context or appreciation for the narrative, the themes, you name it. If I want a feminist reading of a videogame I go look at Liana Kerzner or someone else. But for me watching FemFreq for a critique is like watching this for cooking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6KAVzPb_yQ
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Jul 4, 2015 17:33
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Gamergate is about twitter fights and laughing at terrible online personalities that 70% of the time are related to videogames, I honestly have no idea how you could've interpreted it as anything else.
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Jul 4, 2015 17:37
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Minarchist posted:Yeah, but "man enough" is a commonly accepted English phrase for "you're not a wimp and can handle some serious adversity without crying about it" You see a sad byproduct of the liminal games concerning acceptable discourse in people who get angry about Gamergate issues in that their insults are almost entirely limited to the scatological and infantile such as "pissbaby" and "shitlord" and "mama's little shitboy". Ironically, their desire to elevate the culture away from statements that could be perceived as racist, sexist, homophobic or ableist resulted in what looks like Freud Theory regression, while the Gamergate wordspace is able to freely expand the dimensions of their insults into a kaleidoscope of obcenity such as "gay cunty retard" or jew jokes.
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Jul 4, 2015 17:50
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Obdicut posted:Oh, it's because many GGers claim it's about ethics in games journalism, and the actual activities of GG seem to be complaining about cultural criticism of games. Games Journalism people are one of the best sources of dumb twitter things, which include selling Feminist Frequency as very important and Gamergate as very scary until the former is held up as the face of cultural criticism of videogames and the manufactured scariness of the latter results in that really really good Law and Order: SVU episode about them. Games are a medium which lends itself very well to click-bait and soapboxing since most people know the industry makes lots of money but honestly don't give a poo poo about the content of it. This has occurred in other pop-culture subcultures like tabletop games or comics or cartoons and what have you but nothing can top the moral panic and lazy indignation you can exploit over videogames. Gamergate itself just got confused and put the cart before the horse when they think this is about ~Journalism Ethics~ in and of itself. It's not. It's about a delicate nightmare ecology where emotional retards harvest each others' brains and nerves after spooking one another. Regardless, it is a really good time and should be experienced.
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Jul 4, 2015 18:15
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Obdicut posted:By 'games journalism people', do you mean mainstream games journalists or indie types? What do you mean by "mainstream games journalist"? The idea that there's any sort of establishment when it comes to "games journalism" when the "enthusiast press", or whatever you call youtubers and podcasters, are considered more informative and have more clout than they do seems silly.
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Jul 4, 2015 18:35
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Obdicut posted:I mean the writers who work for IGN, Gamespot, Gamefaqs, as well as the games journalists that work for the standard media outlets rather than the games-specific journals. I'm not sure how you're operationalization 'clout', can you explain? http://www.theesa.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/ESA-Essential-Facts-2015.pdf Nobody really gives a poo poo about games journalism at this point, it factors like 2 to 3 percent of the time. It falls just below "look of the packaging" and can be surpassed by a guy with a face-cam and a youtube account. (face-cam optional)
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Jul 4, 2015 19:05
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No, what do you rely on to support the idea that modern games journalism is super good and important?
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Jul 4, 2015 19:12
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Obdicut posted:I don't think it is super good, or important definitely--I'm betting you haven't read almost any of my other posts on the subject. What I'm saying is that the GG focus on the indie press is not because the indie press has more ethical problems than the mainstream press, but because the indie press approaches games from a more serious and cultural criticism point of view whereas the mainstream journalists tend to simply treat it as a product. In terms of clout, I do think the big sites have quite a lot of draw because they have access and provide a kind of stable table of reviews, but that people aren't reading IGN and saying "IGN thinks it's good, therefore I'll buy it" they're going "IGN says it has these features, I like these features, therefore I'll buy it". IGN scores are a running joke. Polygon and Kotaku are constant targets of ridicule. I don't know what you're talking about.
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Jul 4, 2015 19:19
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Obdicut posted:Well, you don't really seem to be reading anything I'm writing, so that might be why. Obdicut posted:What I'm saying is that the GG focus on the indie press is not because the indie press has more ethical problems than the mainstream press, but because the indie press approaches games from a more serious and cultural criticism point of view whereas the mainstream journalists tend to simply treat it as a product. GG doesn't have a focus on the indie press. Kotaku and Polygon aren't indie press. That's like saying a Patricia Hernandez "I raped you" article or Stephen Totillo's mind-meld with Chris Benoit from playing a WWE game or Tauriq Moussa's tweets on Fire Emblem form "a more serious and cultural criticism point of view". These aren't serious. They're bait for some sort of audience or attention or revenue as their superfluous industry continues to fall apart. At least I hope that's what it is, because the alternative is that they're being genuine and serious in which case oh boy.
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Jul 4, 2015 19:43
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Obdicut posted:Alright. Do you think there's any good cultural criticism of games at all, anywhere? or that it's possible? Presently, with things as tribal as they, I think it's almost impossible. The problem isn't just that all the air is sucked out of the room by an unprofessional and desperate industry in a death-struggle with its frothingly angry and nihilistic core, it's that these two bodies are now so co-dependent with one another that they will take turns propping each other up as windmills to till at. There's this little game called "Her Story" that just came out. It's fine. It's a perfectly fine little murder mystery game. It's 6 bucks. It's FMVs where you piece together a fragmented series of police interviews. The actress does alright. Sam Barlow, the guy who wrote Silent Hill: Shattered Memories wrote it. You can get it done in two or so hours. You can 100% it in another. It's fine. It is a serviceable, ok game and I would suggest it to you if you like this kind of thing. It's fine. If you look at the industry's response to it in some circles it was the second coming. They got it trending with reviews about how it was such an important, brilliant game and a serious game of the year contender and so important for the future of games and blah blah blah blah blah it's a loving FMV game. It has like an hour and forty-five minutes of footage. MGSV and XCOM2 come out later this year, goddamn. Gamergate people predictably took the bait about and started peppering youtube comments with "look at this stupid feminist bullshit lol" with one posting a false tweet from the creator saying something to the effect of "oh no why is my game selling poorly whyyy?" These are groups that have entered a symbiotic relationship so they can draw people in by cultivating indignation and self-righteousness. They're fixed anti-brands to one another. What keeps this from being a pox-on-both-your-houses equivalency is that one side, ostensibly, has some sort of professional responsibility to set tone while the other is an untethered consumer-mass who participate at their own prerogative and can tweet "niggerfag" to their black heart's content.
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Jul 4, 2015 20:37
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fatherboxx posted:This is like saying movie sites should not give anything more than a brief review to an interesting low-budget horror just because there are 5 superhero movies on the way. Games are not movies.
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Jul 4, 2015 21:05
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Obdicut posted:I also don't get why you think it's obvious a FMV game shouldn't get an best game award over MSGV or XCOM2. Why are the latter inherently better games? Just the genre/format of the game? Yes. It's an FMV game. It's videoclips you tie together to tell a story in a couple hours. We've had this since the 90s. It's a fine little game. It's a pretty good story. It can't compare to a more complex game with a comparable narrative. The differences between games aren't the same as the differences between the differences between movies. The disparity and complexity of the ways they can change are huge. The internal comparison of games to one another and movies to one another is like movies to one another and books to one another. Games are different from one another in ways movies can't be.
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Jul 4, 2015 21:20
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Trabisnikof posted:But you're getting caught up that because you think and feel something isn't as good, doesn't mean everyone else does! Its an opinion, and this time yours doesn't match everyone else. Your opinion is no more valid about what makes a good game than anyone else. You can find a straight-to-video B movie more enjoyable than a critically acclaimed movie that sweeps the Oscars. This is different from saying one is Movie of the Year.
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Jul 4, 2015 21:35
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Trabisnikof posted:But that's just the problem, you think it is a "straight-to-video B movie" and other people think it is a "Movie of the year". Somehow, all of these other people who disagree with you are *wrong* and you are *right* because that's how you feel. fatherboxx posted:Why, because the critic is obliged to honor the numerous invites to press screenings, gifts, bought advertising space and a chance to get a pull quote on the cover? Obdicut posted:Okay, but why does that mean a FMV game can't win game of the year? You seem to be saying it can't because it's an FMV, but that's just circular logic. It is an FMV game. You have a search box. You search a term. Your reward is FMVs. Once you collect all the FMVs, nothing happens. It will probably take you under two hours to do this. That is the game. The story behind the game is a good murder mystery story. ... ...it should not win GOTY 2015. It is in my humble opinion that this game where you search out FMVs in a search box to find keywords to more FMVs for a couple hours poses no existential threat to videogames nor is it the salvation to videogames, but to say this is the most important game of 2015 is silly.
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Jul 4, 2015 22:08
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Obdicut posted:This is still circular reasoning. Why do the things you listed above mean it can't be game of the year? Part of what would make a game GOTY in 2015 would have to be gameplay, which this particular FMV game and practically any FMV games have barely any of. To make this clear so the claim of circular reasoning doesn't circle back again: Yes, I am making a normative, nigh categorical statement about purestrain FMV games in the year of our lord 2015 as they pertain to their contention as a "Game of the Year" candidate.
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Jul 4, 2015 22:23
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Obdicut posted:Okay, what about people who disagree that gameplay is a part, or an overwhelming part, or whatever, of what makes a game 2015--what about people who say that making something that challenges the boundaries of what a 'game' is is better than a game that is traditional but has great gameplay? Eliminate "traditional but" and replace it with "Innovative and". Then, Yes.
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Jul 4, 2015 22:32
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If there is no gameplay it is literally, categorically, definitively not a game. It's not. You cannot say "gameplay is not a part of the game". This is "married bachelor" levels of not making sense. If there is no gameplay you have, at best, a screensaver.
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Jul 4, 2015 22:41
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Trabisnikof posted:Oh so now you're arguing that is isn't even a game? No. Obdicut posted:Okay, what about people who disagree that gameplay is a part, or an overwhelming part, or whatever, of what makes a game 2015--what about people who say that making something that challenges the boundaries of what a 'game' is is better than a game that is traditional but has great gameplay? These people are objectively wrong. If there is no gameplay in the videogame, it is just video.
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Jul 4, 2015 22:45
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SedanChair posted:I suppose Zork was "just reading things" and not a game? Did you type a thing and hit enter? This is a limited form of gameplay. Would this be your 2015 GoTY contender or is the point system too traditional for you?
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Jul 4, 2015 22:57
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SedanChair posted:What's wrong with gameplay being "limited"? Running around in an open environment and shooting things is "limited." Everything is "limited." Why does the year matter? Are we supposed to ignore simpler or less resource intensive forms of gameplay because it's 2015? Fun games are fun games. If you disagree that a game is fun, go cry about how journalists don't agree with you. You're drawing an equivocation between a text game from 1980(?) to contemporary gameplay in defense of a 2 hour FMV game where you input search terms being considered 2015's GoTY. Or is it to the bold contention that any form of gameplay is required to call something a game? I could ask which and why, but I don't know what answer could possibly satisfy me.
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Jul 4, 2015 23:41
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When I look for sex positive countries the first ones I look at are the ones with shrinking populations. They know The Horrible Truth.
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Jul 4, 2015 23:56
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SedanChair posted:You already admitted that the game you refuse to call a game has gameplay, albeit "limited" whatever that means. Junkfist posted:There's this little game called "Her Story" that just came out. It's fine. It's a perfectly fine little murder mystery game. I don't where you planned to go with all this but it's ok to be wrong and we can talk about Japan instead.
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Jul 5, 2015 00:12
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SedanChair posted:The truth came out in your subsequent posting. You didn't think it was as much of a "game" as some FPS. It's categorically a game, but if you think the limited scope and dimension of gameplay in the FMV search engine of "Her Story" is offset enough by its presentation and narrative to elevate it to 2015's Game of the Year well...you're welcome to the challenge of selling that viewpoint. All things considered I think you'd have a better shot with HuniePop.
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Jul 5, 2015 00:39
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SedanChair posted:You seem hugely invested in what is GOTY or not. Why? You're been confusing me with this guy who I was responding to: Obdicut posted:I also don't get why you think it's obvious a FMV game shouldn't get an best game award over MSGV or XCOM2. Why are the latter inherently better games? Just the genre/format of the game? Obdicut posted:Okay, but why does that mean a FMV game can't win game of the year? You seem to be saying it can't because it's an FMV, but that's just circular logic. Obdicut posted:This is still circular reasoning. Why do the things you listed above mean it can't be game of the year? He's the guy I disagreed with when he said videogames don't have to have any gameplay and this confused you into thinking I said "Her Story" wasn't a game, somehow. EDIT: Let me take this moment to make this as clear as possible: Videogames must have some form of gameplay and the game "Her Story" is not a serious contender for 2015's GoTY but an ok 6 dollar game if you're into murder mysteries or crime stories. Junkfist fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Jul 5, 2015 |
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Jul 5, 2015 01:23
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SedanChair posted:Again, you're desperate to keep reiterating this, as if soothing yourself. What do you think is being endangered by it getting positive attention? Junkfist posted:It is in my humble opinion that this game where you search out FMVs in a search box to find keywords to more FMVs for a couple hours poses no existential threat to videogames nor is it the salvation to videogames, but to say this is the most important game of 2015 is silly. At this point the only desperation I'm feeling is my desperate longing for you to get something right in our conversation, you're demonstrably 0 for 3.
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Jul 5, 2015 01:42
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SedanChair posted:You seemed just a little upset that this game with its baffling not-shooting gameplay was getting praise instead of your precious sequels. I mean now you're retreating to "it's not a threat" but you are playing both sides here. It's both an affront to you and no big deal at the same time. This is how I seemed to you because I didn't say this little game I liked was Game of the Year? ... ...what? People can have moderate opinions about things, SedanChair. It's ok.
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Jul 5, 2015 01:56
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Obdicut posted:Yeah, sometimes you'll get something like 4'33 and people will really like it, precisely because it is different from everything else. I'm sorry, but this stuff is subjective, not objective, and it's really okay. It's just a game of the year award, it really doesn't mean anything. There's like a billion different places giving out game of the year awards. 4'33 is objectively not music.
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Jul 5, 2015 05:30
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Obdicut posted:Again, this is your subjective opinion. And that's fine, you can have it. I am not sure what percentage of people correctly state the objective truth that 4'33" is not music or that games cannot have absolutely no gameplay.
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Jul 5, 2015 05:40
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Obdicut posted:Okay, well a lot of musicians and symphonies and stuff think 4'33" is music. Ambient sound in a space is not a performance of music. A game cannot exist completely devoid of gameplay. To seriously affirm either is very silly, a good joke, or part of some sort of zen koan.
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Jul 5, 2015 05:56
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Bholder posted:Might as well gas the thread then. It's almost as if a thread superficially about the relatively immaterial topics of Misogyny, Ethics and Patriarchy in the Videogame Industry when its true central subject is silly opinions expressed on Twitter would've been better served in another forum. That is my own personal opinion but I must be wrong since, boy, does this thread have legs. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 5, 2015 16:42
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Obdicut posted:Of all the things to be mad about, the movement of a thread from one subforum to another seems pretty weird. I have no idea why you think the true central topic is silly twitter opinions, either. Could you explain? My nigh-tangible wrath is an inexplicable as it is elemental but to answer your question it's because I looked at #Gamergate on twitter, which is what it is.
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Jul 5, 2015 17:46
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Neurolimal posted:It's really strange that Hellthread veterans are still moaning about the loss of a "safe space" to repost twitter messages. The entire point of Twitter and Hashtags is that a person can easily trace posts pertaining to the subject without additional assistance. If you find a funny twitter post then feel free to post it, people who dont find it funny will be free to ask what they dont find funny about it, because this is not a debate-free "safe space". Uh, this thread is doing ironman numbers. The only person who took issue (or as someone might gaslight it was "mad" or "moaned") was a mod who wanted everyone to be more serious about Gamergate. I kind of partially understand his opinion since this thread is in D&D, but the part where one can be very serious about Gamergate is tough.
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Jul 5, 2015 18:04
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Panzeh posted:Dude, if you want to gas/lock the thread, just do it. GG is not going to get much more than it's getting right now. Excuse me but I think there's a lot left to debate and discuss. We haven't even begun to untangle the semiotic, sociolinguistic and iconic minefield that is this Gamergate flag I found:  I think we're going to need another 500 pages, bare minimum.
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Jul 5, 2015 18:37
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Obdicut posted:Is this another objective truth handed down by Junkfist, the decider of what is and is not objective? That's objectively not how objective truth works.
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Jul 5, 2015 18:50
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Obdicut posted:Yes, that's true. Your earlier statements about what constitutes a game were not, actually, objective truth. That does not follow. This is not how an argument works.
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Jul 5, 2015 18:57
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computer parts posted:What about a game where Anita von SJW saves regular women from nerds in fedoras? This exploits the damsel in distress trope and removes the agency of regular, average, everyday, plain, unexceptional standard-issue women.
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Jul 5, 2015 19:07
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I do not think it is very objectionable that women and men have, on average, different tastes in videogames and that this is accommodated in the development of different kinds of games.
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Jul 5, 2015 20:29
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