Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
Do you like Alien 3 "Assembly Cut"?
Yes, Alien 3 "Assembly Cut" was tits.
No, Alien and Aliens are the only valid Alien films.
Nah gently caress you Alien 3 sucks in all its forms.
View Results
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸
Would Wolverine's healing factor prevent the alien from implanting in the first place and if not would the alien gain wolverine's healing factor and become a super alien?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸
Everything after "The Sentinel" was superfluous trash.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Xenomrph posted:

Like, the original short story?
Yes :colbert:

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸
I'll never like covenant because as far as I'm concerned the cardinal sin a sequel or prequel can perform is to make the universe smaller. This is one of the (many) issues with resurrection, where it's matter of factly stated that in the hundreds of years since the other films nobody ever found any other Alien aliens or even found any interesting aliens at all. It moves it from a big scary universe full of potentially terrifying monsters to a very small universe consisting of humans, Walmart, and one creepy thing that's not around anymore.

Prometheus is a bad film, a godawful waste of celluloid, just absolute dogshite from beginning to end, but at least it did right by the bigger universe. Sure it gave an implied origin to the aliens, but an origin that made the universe in some ways an even darker and more unknowable place. It opened a lot of potential for a universe full of ancient monsters and mysteries, a richer, darker universe that wait hang on forget all that, covenant says the engineers did sweet gently caress all for a billion years before being wiped out by robot daddy issues. They did a real good job of keeping their bioweapons under lock and key and the only bad thing out there is a single overly convoluted creature type made by a sad android.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸
Such as

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Basebf555 posted:

There's no reason to assume that the Engineers were wiped out by David, or that the beings we see in the flashback scene are even proper Engineers. It's likely they were just another hybrid species that the Engineers had seeded similar to humans. And if they were Engineers, there's no reason to assume that this was their primary home world and that David wiped them all out.
The whole theme of the film is David's daddy issues and going after his creators. Killing a bunch of random dudes who just happen to look like the engineers doesn't really mesh with that. Also Prometheus ends with Shaw being all "Let's use this ship to go find the Engineer homeworld" and double also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeMVrnYNwus

Basebf555 posted:

We don't really know what the Engineers have been up to other than the contacts we're shown that occur between Engineers and humans, so I don't know where you're getting the idea that they haven't been doing anything.
When the only Engineer we'd encountered was one in stasis and a disembodied head that left a lot of questions open. There's not a huge amount of engineer stuff lying around; after almost a century of space exploration, including colonising multiple planets, the only Engineer artefacts humanity had found are one we had a map to and one that was screaming "stay away!" into the void. So while there's a bunch of plausible and interesting explanations for this, they all kind of fall apart if the Engineer homeworld (or some other colony full of aliens who just happen to look exactly like the engineers and have a big engineer docking station hovering over their city) is something a colony ship can stumble across ~15 years after humanity first invents decent space travel. There's nothing around because there's nothing to find.

Basebf555 posted:

And lastly, Covenant does not show that David created the xenomorph, only that the black goo is engineered to produce xeno-like characteristics. David performed experiments and eventually was able to hit on the formula to create xenos, he didn't invent or create something that hadn't existed before. At least, there's nothing in the movie to indicate that.
The method in which it's revealed and David describing it as "The Perfect Organism" only makes sense in a (I can't remember the word and that's upsetting me so I'm going to say "narrative" but that's not the word I mean) sense if it's The Xeno. It being just A Xeno is a huge reach and would require everyone involved to utterly suck poo poo at conveying a narrative. It would also, again, make the universe smaller. If Engineers have a rakeload of weird biological weapons made with Goo Science then that's interesting, but if black goo just converges on egg -> face hugger -> black acid guy as the default setting then that's just as bad as the sad android version, but for different reasons.

Don't get me wrong, I'm fully in favour of later films and works slowly retconning all of the above out of existence through the kind of creative reinterpretation you're describing, but they would definitely be retcons and each one would make the narrative of Covenant even less coherent. Which is no great loss.

Splicer fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Mar 24, 2022

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

FastestGunAlive posted:

Yea I re watched a couple years ago, having not seen it for at least ten. The dialogue really is atrocious. I think the underwater scene is great though
I rewatched it recently and about 20 minutes in I realised I was watching alpha test footage for Firefly.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸
I've always felt alien 3 (or at least the remastered version) is a good film with a few regrettable scenes, while 4 has a few good scenes in an otherwise regrettable film.

And yeah the cocky, quip throwing Marines in 2 are supposed to be interpreted as overconfident. It serves a number of purposes for them to be expressing how easy a job it's going to be. 4 is what happens when you take the pointed sticks speech entirely at face value.

Splicer fucked around with this message at 13:25 on Mar 30, 2022

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

mllaneza posted:

Seriously. One third of all Americans have outed themselves as "would hide a zombie bite deliberately get bitten to prove a point".

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸
Keeping zombie granny in the basement so you can keep injecting her with invermectin

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

PeterCat posted:

Eh, Predator is the superior alien vs human war film of the 1980s.

Also, Prometheus is great, an old man seeking eternal life being beaten to death with his son by a god yelling "Your children are your immortality you dickhead!"
Shame about the other 90 minutes.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Alchenar posted:

I think the colonist scenes are fine, if unnecessary. They still leave the events of the fall of the colony up to the imagination.
IMO it introduces the colony too early. Without it we're only introduced to people and places as Ripley encounters them. Note that I'm not saying we only see things Ripley sees, but rather that without that scene the narrative starts with Ripley a our POV character and everything after that fairly smoothly forks off from her experiences. We don't meet anyone else before we she meets them, and with very minor exceptions we don't go anywhere before she's been there. Jumping to the colony is a much more jarring transition than anything else in the film, and to me almost feels like an interruption.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸
Here's my probably incredibly controversial opinion: Starting the film with a fake-out dream jump scare is bad.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Darko posted:

Its good for pacing and setting tone. It's also why horror films often do an introductory kill before introducing the real main characters and building the plot.
Yeah, I don't like that either. It's one of the reasons I still hold Alien up as one of the best ever horror films. Ramping up the tension doesn't work as well for me when the opening scene starts off at a local peak and then it takes half the film to reach the same level again. Alfred Hitchcock has a good thing about the difference between tension vs shock value and how the latter diffuses the former.

I've grudgingly accepted that I appear to be a minority on this preference though.

Xenomrph posted:

We can all agree that the sentry gun bit is rad as gently caress, though, right? :hellyeah:
Absolutely.

As an aside, is it ever established if HH had any animals in it or just humans?

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

Like, why does Hadley's Hope have a welcome sign at the edge of town? Who's driving there?
This I'll defend, it's absolutely the kind of thing I'd do for laughs if I was .5% of the population of the planet.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸
If SMG genuinely doesn't understand the concept of jokes or irony then a whole lot of things suddenly make sense.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

16-bit Butt-Head posted:

its a joke by the colonists and an attempt to make the mining colony feel and look like an actual town instead of a lone mining colony on a planet that is barely livable

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

If the sign is an ironic joke by the colonists, why did the colonists vandalize it with an additional ironic joke? Someone scrawled "HAVE A NICE DAY" on it.

The graffiti ties in thematically with the various catchphrases and stuff that the marines paint on their gear - which that brings us back to the question of why the marines' technology is stupid. Are they wearing bulletproof armor (against animals that don't use guns) ironically?

The simpler explanation is that the film presents a toyetic fantasy of work and warfare.
Some Adults: Let's put up a sign to make this place feel like an actual town
Other Adults: Let's put up a sign because this place sucks poo poo
Teens: Let's vandalise the sign because this place sucks poo poo

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

16-bit Butt-Head posted:

i personally would have went to the bar when the xenomorphs started abducting people because that really is the best time to get wasted on cheap alcohol
You absolutely know someone tried to kill their implanted chestburster by drowning it in vodka

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

things aren't actually functional at all: troops wearing short sleeves to fight acid monsters
What acid monsters?

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Xenomrph posted:

Now I’m picturing a chestburster popping out and it’s totally shitfaced, just drunkenly slithering around in circles.
It turns out they have acid for blood as an adaptation to our HCL-filled stomachs. If you dilute the acid with alcohol they get... less scary.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

ruddiger posted:

David puts the black goo in alcohol and the alcohol doesn't weaken it in the slightest, I doubt spirits would have any effect on a full grown alien.
Extrapolating this argument you can kill black goo with bullets.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Darko posted:

Yeah cause somehow there are like quadruple the number of xenos there now. Maybe they just found some really bad indigenous hosts given how dumb they are.
A:FE explicitly differentiates between xenomorphs that come out of humans (smart, bipedal preference, do annoying stuff like run away when hurt) and xenomorphs that come out of, well, everything else (dumb, run at you in waves, die). It's why I was wondering if there was livestock in hadley's hope. If there are then there could be far more aliens than there were people and the turret victims could have been the, well, crap aliens.

Also do you know about the single typo in colonial marines that broke the entire AI?

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Darko posted:

I had heard about this when the game was out and people were making sad xeno gifs but I forgot what it was.
There is a huge big pile of AI code that tells the aliens what zone they're in and where the exits are and so forth, which allows them to make hit-and-run attacks, flank marines, retreat when injured etc. This is called (something)tether. This was accessed via a mostly blank function called (somethingelse)tether that basically takes a copy of (something)tether and then adds some additional functionality. Except instead of this mostly blank function being told to look to (something)tether it instead looks to (something)taether. Which does not exist. So most of the AI code just doesn't work because it relies on output from an apparently surprisingly well written chunk of code that the game simply does not know how to access.

This typo isn't even in the compiled code. It's in a user accessible ini file. You can literally fix it with notepad.

e: tenses all over the place

Splicer fucked around with this message at 00:26 on May 1, 2022

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

happyhippy posted:

The line was:

ClassRemapping=PecanGame.PecanSeqAct_AttachXenoToTether -> PecanGame.PecanSeqAct_AttachPawnToTeather

And 'tether' mispelt at the end.

But with programming, usually if something is incorrect, it should have thrown an error somewhere when it as compiled or tested.
Something like 'unknown call', 'undefined parameter expected', 'unknown index', 'unexpected NULL encountered' whatever.
Implying someone ignored it.
Adding the poo poo sprinkles to the top of poo poo heap that was the game itself.
Compile time error/warning alerts are pretty standardised since pretty much everyone uses off-the-shelf compilers, but it wouldn't show at compile time because it's an error in a config file which would have only "become" an issue during runtime. Since warnings and alerts for runtime errors really rely on the developer writing in error catching (or a robust, and expensive, testing suite) it's entirely possible there were never any visible alerts that there was an issue. That's in some ways even worse indictment.

Splicer fucked around with this message at 22:32 on May 1, 2022

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

MrMojok posted:

Has anyone tried it? Does it really make a difference to the gameplay?
I've had A:CM in my library since the $3 sale but never played it. Decided to boot it up and oh boy does this game love taking the controls away from the player.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

feedmyleg posted:

Only because the Blade Runner thread is long dead, just a heads up to folks in here that the Free League Blade Runner tabletop roleplaying game Kickstarter just went live. If you snagged their Alien stuff you know how good they are.
Is Soldier in it

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸
Now to be fair that's a different Aliens: Colonial Marines which was cancelled lol

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

The thread belongs to the people.

That the three 'Ripley' films all have exceedingly little in common is, simply, true.

There's a reason only Paul W.S. Anderson has officially returned to the 'Alien Queen' concept, and that nobody has returned to the 'Colonial Marines' concept (after Gordon's jokey short film). Attempts at forcing Aliens into canon resulted in the creation of at least one infamously stupid videogame.
The 1999 AvP game and its sequel both included the queen and colonial marines as concepts and if you have a bad thing to say about either of them I will gut you like a pig.

A:FE also uses both but that's a bit more controversial. The story and voice acting are surprisingly good though.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Xenomrph posted:

Fireteam Elite is a cool game. I wish it had more campaign content but the weapons are fun and varied, combat is largely solid, the level design (especially the way it incorporates concepts from ‘Prometheus’) is cool, and overall it’s a good time.

Edit— vvvvvvvvv if anyone wants to give it a whirl, my Steam ID is Xenomrph
The tie in novel is also surprisingly good. I'd love for season 4 to add return to Palla Station as the new chapter.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸
Even if they had taken Ripley's experiences seriously her experience was a single alien going apex predator on her crew. Even with the extended scenes we only see it crafting new eggs. Kidnapping living colonists to bring them to the eggs resulting in hundreds of aliens was not really predictable behaviour. The tactics and preparations for taking down a couple of very dangerous animals are very different to those for taking down a colony sized army.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

A “welcome” sign when there are no neighbouring towns.
This is why people make fun of you.

Well, one reason.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Xenomrph posted:

What will really bake your noodle is that “canonically” LV426 and LV223 (the planet from ‘Prometheus’) orbit the same gas giant, and are close enough to each other to transit between the two moons if necessary.

It’s one of those retcons that has potential for neat ideas behind it
This kind of thing just makes the universe feel so small. That the only canon planet they've found black goo derived monsters on is right next door to the planet with the black goo does have implications, but the implications are all very boring.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

FastestGunAlive posted:



Why would the 38th infantry put up this sign. Clearly anyone on Bataan would know they were on it.


Do you seriously expect me to believe those distances and directions are even slightly practical. That's not even how signposts work!

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Darko posted:

It makes sense that warship moon that went horribly badly would have a crashed ship on the planet it orbits or a nearby moon depending on how you want to connect it. Prometheus is wide open enough because anything before "it went very badly for them right when they tried to goo earth and a bunch of them died" can be anything and makes the "crashed ship on the other moon" thematically make sense. Maybe the Prometheus Engineers set up shop next door after grabbing the goo from the crashed LV426 ship; who knows.
I'm going to ask you to, yourself, think about why the first film's aliens and the fifth film's origin point for those aliens being far apart would have immediate and obviously spookier implications than them being very close together.

Darko posted:

Engineer Planet X from Covenant is a long ways away and unconnected as well and it has goo creatures because of fuckery as well. There could be any number of different goo creatures on any number of planets. People are goo creatures too, technically.
It has goo creatures due to a single, relatively recent, and very, very lame vector.

Splicer fucked around with this message at 17:17 on May 9, 2022

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Xenomrph posted:

I’m of the opinion that Prometheus is not the “origin point” for capital-A Aliens, let alone the ones from ‘Alien’.
A) Whoops, I made an amusing mistake, now corrected
B) Oh I absolutely agree, Capital A Aliens being directly from LV223 is less interesting than there being black goo on various planets doing who knows what, but again if they're both on moons orbiting the same planet then occams razor. Which is why that's a dumb idea and they're obviously very far away from each other.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸
I forget, how was the transmitter damaged?

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Dog_Meat posted:

From memory, don't they comment that all the antennas are intact while they're flying in? "Structure looks intact". So whatever happened happened fast. In the novelisation there's a throwaway line about maybe they all found religion and a vow of silence.

Question for the timeline nerds -

I can buy the lack of preparation and the colony being overwhelmed suddenly. Newt's dad erupts, they have the Alien situation (thinking it's a big animal they're dealing with). It takes a handful of people, gets them all chest-bursted and an isolated colony gets overwhelmed when 10 or so xenos come rocking in and take the rest of the colony as incubators.

But does that first xeno take them to the jockey ship? Does it find the atmosphere processor, think "this is a great spot", run to the jockey ship a few times carrying eggs under it's arms? Or did it do the hormone storm thing to become a queen and lay a new batch of eggs in the processor? I know the lore didn't exist then so Cameron was envisioning a queen as a new concept, but did he decide that the queen was the one that burst out of Newt's dad (like Alien 3)?

The gap for me has always been going from 1 xeno to lots of xenos. Unless that first one went to the atmosphere station, made a bunch of eggs itself and then the people looking for it got facehugged?
I meant why does Bishop need to crawl to the colony transmitter instead of them just using a nearby terminal?

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Dog_Meat posted:

I'm relying on memory (I used to be able to obsessively quote the film) but I think it just comes down to plot requirements. The dropship rolled into the APC but I don't remember anything in the colony going up in the explosion. So the terminals were either damaged in the small arms resistance, the power went out when the station vented or the xenos have chewed up all the cables looking to cut the power.

Hudson says the terminal was on the APC, it's wasted
Ripley says we patch in from here
Bishop says some techy version of "I already checked, the hardware is down between here and there"
Ripley says someone will have to go out there with a portable transmitter
Hudson nopes out with the greatest "gently caress that" in cinema history
I was wondering if it was more specific. If it had been down for a while then it's possible by the time the colonists went "We should radio this in" they couldn't any more.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

The two cuts of the film present two different scenarios:

In the theatrical, it's implied that a whole team of colonists went to explore the space-ship, and a bunch of them got face-crabbed at the same time. "There's no telling how many of them [had been] exposed", but there are six crabs in those preservation tanks - two live and four dead. (In the context of Alien 1, those four dead crabs imply four baby aliens.) So, around one day after finding the ship, you've got a young queen and at least three helpers running around, gathering up supplies to build a nest. This actually provides a decent explanation for how the aliens were able to destroy the colony so quickly: communication immediately lost, half-eaten donuts lying around, etc.

The Special Edition actually messes this up because, as you note, the timeline doesn't make any sense. Newt's dad is the only one crabbed. The film cuts away, but Newt's mom presumably drives him back to the colony for treatment. So, 24 hours later, you've got a single young queen running around the colony, gathering up food and bodies so that she can eventually hunker down to produce her first egg. This means multiple days pass between initial exposure and the creation of a second adult alien. The queen spends a good chunk of that time completely immobile, yet the colonists just kinda faff around. Nobody fixes the radio. And at what point did they collect the five additional crabs?
Yeah, an important part of film making is not explaining what doesn't need to be explained. It doesn't really matter what the exact timeline of the colony being devoured by aliens is because it's not a story about the colony being devoured by aliens, it's a story about what happened after. Everything beyond what's directly relevant to the plot is a distraction at best and at worst it's an opportunity to introduce obvious internal discrepancies.

This is not a blanket "ambiguity is good", an equally important part of film making is explaining what does need to be explained and god it sucks when film makers are inappropriately ambiguous.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Neo Rasa posted:

Like once it's grown a bit there's a queen and some eggs around? It hangs there and protects the queen/eggs and becomes a praetorian. There's already a hive of aliens around the queen/eggs? Start bringing beings in to get facehugged.
Huh, I'd have put this the other way around. If Queen + eggs -> go get hosts. If queen + eggs + a bunch of other aliens/facehugged hosts -> start evolving specialist forms

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply