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Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
FFIX is incredibly good.

It is one of the absolutely best presented games I have ever seen, everything everywhere just gels perfectly together to make the atmosphere above and beyond. It's so good that even I as a total gameplay-over-story nerd don't really care that the battle system could use some huge improvements and that the card game is total garbage.

FFV is the best Final Fantasy to play, but FFIX takes the cake and eats it as the best Final Fantasy to experience.

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Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

kalonZombie posted:

This is the best Final Fantasy. I will fight anyone who says otherwise.

I only play Tetra Master a few times just so the tournament is less painful later on, but honestly Tetra Master is garbage. The numbers don't even matter. It's all random anyway. I do find it interesting that the cards have a sort of FF2 leveling system to them though. If you use them about a thousand times or something stupid, their numbers will go up a little bit.

I've never been able to jump rope past 20. gently caress jump roping.
Just wait for the HD remake (maybe in 10 years after the FF7 one does gangbusters?), jump-roping will give you a Trophy and there will be guides upon guides for the best method not unlike lightning dodging in FFX. Then it'll be totally worth it :downs:.
Seriously though, it's neat that they put it in because you don't get anything substantial from it.

To expand on Tetra Master, I know how it ticks (read up on it at GameFAQs, that is), and that takes the edge off the byzantine way it's presented, but the insane randomness really nails that coffin. It's too bad, really, because it could be a fun (if meaningless) diversion; I played it a bunch the first time around as exactly that, but with Save States, because it's utter nonsense without. You will lose your best cards to the lowliest Goblin, there is really never a 100% chance to win outright, afaik (okay, maybe in some extreme cases).

It's quite the shame, but again, it ultimately doesn't matter because of how optional it really is. :spergin:-bait anyway because of what you have to do to get 100%...

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

YggiDee posted:

Blank has two-toned skin and stitches. Is he a zombie or a flesh golem or what? How many people did he used to be?
yes

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
In the interest of not spoiling literally everything ever, I won't post a link (you can search using words contained in this post), but there is a beautiful document of aspergian insanity called The No Spoiler II Perfect Game Guide (these are those words!). I just want to quote the relevant excerpt:

code:
Stats actually pose the biggest problem in this perfect game challenge, since
 in order to obtain perfect stats, you must start working on them from Lv 1.
 Furthermore, you can only work on them after getting the [spoilers don't work in code!] as you
 are not only limited by the Lv at which you begin, but also by the available
 selection of equipment. Simply put, you do not have access to all of the
 necessary equipment until after you get the [badonkadonk], and if it is
 available, then you either don't have the time to actually get it or to level
 up with it to a meaningful degree. What does this mean for you? It means that
 you will be playing the whole game at Lv 1!
It's a small but significant glimpse into how completely bonkers that guide is were you to actually follow it all the way. I know a low-level game is...doable within limits, but there is that, and there is the spoilered part in addition to that.

I posted a "99 Rosetta Stones by playing cards and extensive RNG manipulation, it will literally take 17 hours" guide in the FF8 LP, these things amuse me; rest assured, the FF9 thing is far, far, far worse.

This is what worrying about tiny stat increases on level up leads to, so


don't

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Kheldarn posted:

You're gonna do that for this game, too? I can't wait! :allears:
I could have sworn someone (probably Orange Fluffy Sheep) did a Level 1 challenge run in the last LP thread, but it didn't seem to get archived on a casual glance. So I can't tell you to just consult that for the casual manic obsessiveness :v:.

Sure, then, I can try to remember which normally completely mundane parts of this game require insane work-arounds to keep the party at the lowest level possible and post excerpts, why not?

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
EDIT: Update on the last page!



Well, then!

code:
 It should go without saying that if you're going for a perfect save, you'll
 need to perfect the individual runs that get you there.

 Play and read each section once or twice before attempting it seriously; you
 need to acquaint yourself with treasure locations, shop lists, menu
 operations and the overall route through each area. Read a circuit or two
 ahead so that you have an idea of what you will be preparing for and what is
 waiting for you.
Remember this, boys and girls!

You should have figured out by now that this particular guide is for beating the game as quickly as possible as well as staying at Level 1 the whole time. This means poo poo like this:

code:
     .====================.                                          ____
  .--| BATTLE: MASKED MAN |-----------------------------------------(0 AP)--.
  |  '===================='                                          ŻŻŻŻ   |
  |                                                                         |
  | • Have everyone Steal once; reset if you don't get the Mage Masher.     |
  | • Its rarity is 16/256, so it shouldn't take too many attempts to get   |
  |   it within the first round.                                            |
  | • Once you get the Mage Masher, simply have everyone attack themselves  |
  |   to end the battle; you won't get a Game Over.                         |
  |                                                                         |
  '-------------------------------------------------------------------------'
For the very first battle in the game is just par for the course.

The Jump Rope Minigame is serious business in a Perfect Game Oh My run, and there are some options for it which I really don't get related to a high score board on it which only really shows up in a Mognet letter which is completely optional and may not even be viewable at the end of the game or something? I am not even going to comprehend the loops of logic required to justify doing that, but even under the serious time constraint this run puts you under, the guide's writer allows you to get 1000 jumps three times "if you want to", of course once is mandatory, this will take 8 minutes.

Impressing the nobles...

code:
  | * Here are some tips:                                                   |
  |                                                                         |
  |     1. Turn of the volume on your TV.                                   |
Nope sorry I'm done

code:
 o Breathe a sigh of relief once you're done; this can be one of the hardest
   parts of this challenge.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
Glad that it resonates!

Just to be perfectly fair, then, if I am going to turn this into a feature: Credit goes to Atomos199 for writing this insane piece (ABSOLUTE SUPER SPOILERS) of course!

It is, like many video game achievements, certainly impressive, but I do think eminently mockable. If you still like doing challenge runs, then more power to you; depending on your personal level of frustration tolerance and/or craving, I am convinced that doing any kind of self-imposed nonsense is just pure clean fun for you, and that's cool, fun is cool. BUT if you think that doing something of this level is anything but borderline-to-crossing madness, you lack some serious self-awareness, and that is, even in the context of a goddamn Final Fantasy LP on the SA forums, well deserving of ridicule.


code:
     _____________________________________
 .--( High Intention: You aim for the top )----------------------------------.
 |   ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ                                   |
 | I took a no-compromises approach to this game. So will you. That's why it |
 | is called the *HONK    HONK* Perfect Game. Your perfect save will include |
 | the AIR HORN     and you won't forfeit anything in order to get it. You   |
 | will miss nothing, you will obtain everything. Those are the conditions   |
 | and they are well within reach. Obsessive-compulsive and anal-retentive   |
 | qualities will prove advantageous.                                        |
 '---------------------------------------------------------------------------'

Simply Simon fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Jul 7, 2015

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Like Clockwork posted:

I've never played it, although I'm aware of some presumably major spoilers and some later characters (and the soundtrack but that's a given). It seems interesting, but hearing about how slow it is makes me reluctant to actually play it myself...
Play it on emulator, problem solved. It's an amazing treat, do yourself the favor.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
Doctor Tot kills me because the infamous Worst Doctor Ever Mengele, the concentration camp monster who experimented on people, had the nickname "Doktor Tod" (Doctor Death). Apparently, he's not the only person to have this wonderful moniker, another KZ pseudo-doctor also has that honor.

Sorry for ruining everyone's fun! As consolation prize, there is absolutely no ridiculous jumping through hoops and/or over ropes to be had for the super challenge run 3000 in this segment.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
If you don't shuffle your party completely at every opportunity, I don't know what to tell you.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

MarquiseMindfang posted:

There are only three things I would change about FFIX's battle/party system.

I'd implement FFX's rotating party system, as others have alluded to.

I'd let you save Trance to activate whenever.

And I'd like to make it possible to have bosses with more than 65535 HP, because as is, almost anything dies in seven actions.
Yes, yes, multiple parts like Neo Exdeath.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Rabbi Raccoon posted:

As much as I love this game, I really feel like this is one of the weakest moments, especially if you've played through before. After a fun, exciting intro, the plot more or less stalls until you get to the first town.

Also hey Mega, you gonna show off the secret/easter egg/whatever with saving on the map?
I really like the forest because as great as the opening is, you finally get to do stuff and start earning AP and have encounters and and and! I actually really like the ability system, no battle feels wasted and you can have some interesting decisions both in what to learn, what to equip temporarily and how to set up your crystals. I pretty much never look at the actual values of the items, just what they'll learn me. Did the same in Tactics Advance, with the notable difference that FFTA is a bloodlessly boring exercise in absolute tedium which I only played to completion because I had it and all of it's incredibly stupid decisions got balanced out by how much you can sleepwalk through it, while FF9 is just wonderful.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Manic_Misanthrope posted:

Remember how I was complaining about the Silk Shirt? This rear end in a top hat is the reason why. You might think that it's safe to put flammable gear in a dungeon where the gimmick is ice, nope. He has Fire spells, which can make the early part much trickier than first intended.

And god drat you lucky son of a bitch with the Mythril Dagger steal.

code:
  | • Once Black Waltz #1 is defeated, begin Stealing from Sealion.         |
  | • Use a Potion when needed and wait for the Trance gauge to fill.       |
  | • Reset if you don't steal the Mythril Dagger; if you steal it and have |
  |   extra turns left, make sure you get his Ether as well.                |
This could be a lot of Resets...but that is pretty much low level speedrun guide.txt.

I didn't find too much outrageous stuff to post so far, and what was there, OFC already covered it :D. I will try and find extra dumb nonsense you have to pull to be quick as well as low level after each low level update!

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
I think the difference between "normal" speedruns (that is, of a game that is far more suited to speedruns, like a platformer) is that for platformers, you basically develop the skills to do The One Perfect Run and then do it. After some time-saving techniques, glitches etc. have been discovered, it's mostly about execution.

For an RPG, most of what you're doing is managing luck - that is, you know there is a certain (and sometimes considerable) element of randomness to things, but you try to minimize that as well as possible, but ultimately, you do a lot of crossing your fingers and praying. The elegance in that, and what I actually like to read about (it's not like I only checked out the perfect game guide to laugh at it, far from that!), is discovering those minimization strategies.

That might not be that fun to watch, however, and for me at least it certainly sounds like absurdly unfun to do - as you don't even improve after a certain point, you just hope for the best. Overall though, I think both types of speedrun might well take the same amount of time, as most skill-based ones take crazy amounts of practice.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
So, I've waited a bit to see what OFS covers in his low-level game, and now I don't need to pussyfoot around the reason for the speedrun part, so let's post so more nonsense!

To recap: there is a Perfect Game Guide (heavy spoilers for literally everything, of course!) covering how to stay at Level 1 for those sweet, sweet stat upgrades with the correct equipment on level up, while also being fast enough to get through 99% of the main game in 12 hours, while also not missing anything permanently missable. This requires some insanity far beyond "just" staying at Level 1, and I'd like to share some of the more ridiculous poo poo with you.

We know about needing a fight with only 2 Plant Spiders when escaping the Evil Forest, reminder:

code:
     .==========================.                                    ____
  .--| BATTLE: PLANT SPIDER x 2 |-----------------------------------(1 AP)--.
  |  '=========================='                                    ŻŻŻŻ   |
  |                                                                         |
  | • If there are more than 2 Plant Spiders, RESET THE GAME and try again. |
  | • Use a spreaded Fire spell or two physical attacks to win the battle;  |
  |   make sure everyone survives to keep your party at Lv 1.               |
  | • Do NOT have Blank absorb all the EXP, as that will make SPOILER join  |
  |   the party at Lv 3. You have been warned.                              |
  |                                                                         |
  '-------------------------------------------------------------------------'
This sounds pretty dry until you read how often OFS did actually have to reset.

You have been warned.

code:
 o On the World Map, head south while the nameplate is displayed to avoid
   random battles and enter Ice Cavern.
 o Exit immediately after the scenes and save your game.
I must say I do appreciate those reminders. He cares!

Ice Cave, this tidbit:

code:
 o Although it's still not exactly easy, you can make it through the entire
   area without any encounters by changing screens a bit more often than
   otherwise necessary - changing screens resets the encounter check.

 o On the screen with the Potion and the Ether, pick up only one per trip,
   backtracking to the previous screen after getting each, and then getting
   past the screen on a third entry. You may want to start with the Potion
   since it's the harder to grab without a battle.
Sounds like fun. All of these time-saving things for the game actually add a lot of real life time due to constant, excruciating resets, of course...all the more reason for him to tell you every possible opportunity to save at certain points, like after cutscenes. It's surely much needed.

Black Waltz and Sealion:

code:
 [Steal until Trance happens, but:]
  | • Reset if you don't steal the Mythril Dagger; if you steal it and have |
  |   extra turns left, make sure you get his Ether as well.                |
This could take quite a while, too...

Dali:

code:
 o After the conversation, sell all your Phoenix Pinion and buy the following:

    ----------------------------------
                               15,252
    ==================================
     BUY : 97 Wrist            12,610
         :  5 Feather Hat       1,000
         :  3 Leather Shirt       810
    ==================================
                                  832
    ----------------------------------
WRISTS

And finally:

code:
 o Make your way through the screens until you reunite with Vivi, picking up
   all the items except the Iron Helm, which you should grab on the way back
   to the barrel with Kumop.
Even the tiniest of timesavers are thought of!

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
All this Wrist-planning etc. makes me wonder how I'd play the game unspoiled. I only ever did it with a guide, because I had read the other LP beforehand anyway. But there's a lot of poo poo to miss, actually pretty important poo poo - as has just been said, it's entirely possible to go "uh I'll buy this later" and then you lose access to the store...forever. And lose out on a possible synthesis item later.
I should get someone who doesn't know the game to replay it with me and make the decisions...

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
I also had the "benefit" of a friend who insisted we grind up at the first opportunity cuz it's easy and get all the Abilities available asap, meaning that the difficulty curve shat itself and died horribly from the word go. Really wonder about how it'd go without being grossly overleveled...and overequipped because holy poo poo does Stealing and that one sidequest give you complete nonsense far too early.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
Wait wait guys let me just check the Perfect Game Guide to settle this argument.

code:
* Who wins is really just a personal choice.
nvm

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
Is the insane techno-city in FF8 (Esthar?) evil? They're run by Laguna after all, somehow, but on the other hand they support Dr. Mengele for some reason. I have no idea what to think of them tbqh because holy poo poo FF8's plot at that point in the game.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
Every single noun in German is male, female or neutral. I'm told it's fun to learn. Would probably be equally fun to try and change it, somehow.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
It's been a while since I posted stuff from the Insane Guide, because it's been rather tame mostly with all the story-heavy scenes. With the exception of the Festival of the Hunt, of course; there the recommendation to be As Perfect As Possible is to have Zidane win (though it doesn't matter, item-wise) with exactly 100 points.
Problem is, Zhagnol gives a random amount, so the guide recommends to leave as many monsters on the way as possible alive with creative dodging to give you options later, fight Zhagnol (with a calculator handy, no less, to keep track of his HP for the finishing blow), then go back to the monsters you spared to add up the 100 points needed.
code:
 o Some luck is involved as you never have more than a 1 out of 3 chance of
   getting the desired value, but these are rather good odds compared to some
   other things in this challenge.
Exactly, as of course, the Needle Fork thing is really hard and annoying for the Level 1 run...

But what about the Level 1 speedrun?

code:
  | • The goal is to Petrify both Type A's with the Needle Fork.            |
  | • Ideally, you would Petrify them both with only 2 hits total, but the  |
  |   probability of this is only 1%. A more reasonable target would be to  |
  |   Petrify both within 4 or less hits - that's a 5% (1/20) chance.       |
And that combined with the chance of just failing outright because they roast Quina...cool.

Then, it's time to have some fun.

code:
                                                       ___________________
  .---------------------------------------------------/ CHOCOBO HOT&COLD /--.
  |                                                   ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ   |
  | * If you don't unearth the "Stone with Patterns" during your first game,|
  |   reset and try again.                                                  |
  | * The "Stone with Patterns" will always be the "Streamside" Chocograph, |
  |   so don't bother replaying in hopes of getting anything else. Once you |
  |   have it, leave and save the game.                                     |
  |                                                                         |
  | * Now play another game of Hot&Cold. Reset until you find a Chocograph. |
  | * When you do, exit and ride to South Gate; grab the two items, then    |
  |   leave and save your game on another save file.                        |
  | * Check which Chocograph you got. You'll need both "Healing Shore" and  |
  |   "Small Beach", so reload the earlier save if you didn't get either.   |
  |                                                                         |
  | * Return and play 1 more game in hopes of getting the other Chocograph! |
...if "resetting a fuckton" is the same as "fun" in your world.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
The maximum is 303 points, the guide says it's not humanly possible; I very much believe that, as I also believe that there were hours spent on trying. 100 is indeed the minimum, and it'll show up on a letter later I think, which will be readable always (much like the jump rope scoreboard), so it needs to be neat.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:

Specifically I'm making a joke because why are you people discussing the level 1 run in the final dungeon?
lol you just admitted it's not even a Level 1 run for the full party. You probably won't even optimize equipment on the level gainers to have their stats still be perfect. And the Excalibur 2 also won't be gotten, probably...scrubmeister.

(yes, Mega has spoken of it. I paid special attention because it saves me a lot of spoiler tags)

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Phantasium posted:

It was probably intended less as a reward for speedrunning and more a crutch for people who rushed through the game so fast that they might have lovely characters and equipment.
I don't think so; after all, the conceit of the crazy guide is not specifically that it's level 1 and also Excalibur 2; it's Perfect Game and nothing less. Perfect game in FF9 demands leveling up with specific equipment due to the way stats work in the game, but you can't do that from the get-go, so the level 1 game is a necessity born from the Perfect conceit, not the other way round. Excalibur 2 can only be gotten by being fast, but it's of course necessary to have in the Perfect Game, so that's also just a result from that demand. What is also a demand, however, is getting every missable chest and hidden item, and doing all that crazy minigame stuff like Jump Rope King...which can only be gotten at the very start...and all of that is possible within the 12 hour limit, albeit only with ludicrous planning.

So, if you ditched for example just the Level 1 part you could speedrun the game pretty easily probably, at the very least concerning resets numbering in the high thousands, if that is not far too conservative. Meaning that Excalibur 2 is not a challenge that only a few people can ever do, if you'd really want to, you could probably do it yourself without missing much (or anything), the Perfect Game Guide just makes it seem ludicrous because of all its other self-imposed restrictions.

Though your failsafe idea is neat, and it might well also be the case. I don't remember the Excalibur 2 scene though (I haven't done it myself, but I've seen pictures), it might be "hey cool you are a master player", but it might also be "are you loving insane? Okay have a weapon geeze" and anything in between :D.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
I think I heard that particular bit of nonsense (and other assorted bits of obscure stupidity) are entirely due to one dude who had a serious boner for that kinda stuff. His reasoning was that the game experience would by improved by practically forcing a large community of players to work together figuring out this crap. Basically, like FEZ or Binding of Isaac, but not as Indie.
This guy also added all of that stuff very, very late in development because he was brought in as replacement for the main director who worked himself into hospital trying to finish the game.
IZJS added even more obscure bullshit (invisible weapons in invisible chests!) but mostly to make fun of that dude.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Fister Roboto posted:

To be fair that's kind of the philosophy behind Dark Souls, and it works well for that.
I would also say it worked well for FEZ. I does not work well when you glue it onto an existing game, and even though I like FF12 far more than a lot of people do (tbf I only played IZJS), it is just not good enough for deliberate obtusity.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
In between playthroughs of FF9, I played like all other FFs and especially FF5 a lot. When you're just starting out and killing things and having a good time, it's not that slow. When you realize that you can totally kill bosses underleveled without even breaking a sweat because Slow is good and you know of his Fire weakness and got all the Blue Magic so whatever, just running away from a lot of encounters becomes attractive, and makes a game you've played before indeed flow nicer. However, in FF5 this is a matter of half a second for each battle, in FF9 it can take up to 30 seconds or even a minute, depending on where you're playing it. When all you're doing is running away anyway, that becomes grating very fast.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
Lindblum is also a German word ("gentle flower", poetic) and Lindbulm is not.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
There are random encounters in FF8?

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
The adjective for Schadenfreude is schadenfreudig, plural (and female) schadenfreudige.

FeyerbrandX posted:

If only there was some sort of guide back then to help him through it.

I can't wait til Simon lays the brilliance on us this time.
Haha, I almost forgot that I was doing that because I got lost in FF9's presentation again (also there is far more story than gameplay in this part).


Gonna preface from now on to prevent possible confusion: I'm quoting from the Excalibur 2 Perfect Game Guide! This is how not to only beat the game at low level, but to also make a speedrun of it, and how to also not miss any missable items! It's elaborate as hell and maybe slightly insane!


There is actually nothing for this part I can offer which wasn't covered by the LP and OFS, as it's pretty straightforward. The guide of course gets all missable items and does everything really quickly, but nothing stands out as particularly extreme compared to a "normal" Level 1 game (though of course you are expected to save halfway to locations, reload to reset the encounter rate, and reload again whenever you still do get an encounter). So I'll leave you with boss strategies we've seen as written by the guide because I think it's actually pretty funny (and in Beatrix' case, informative). Also, that formating, man!

Gizamaluke:
code:
     .====================.                                          ____
  .--| BATTLE: GIZAMALUKE |-----------------------------------------(5 AP)--.
  |  '===================='                                          ŻŻŻŻ   |
  |                                                                         |
  | • If Zidane's turn comes up before Quina's then you can try to Steal    |
  |   once if you like - the 256/256 Elixir certainly won't hurt.           |
  | • Use Quina's Limit Glove!                                              |
  |                                                                         |
   >-----------------------------------------------------------------------<
Beatrix:
code:
     .===================.                                           ____
  .--| BATTLE: Beatrix 1 |------------------------------------------(0 AP)--.
  |  '==================='                                           ŻŻŻŻ   |
  |                                                                         |
  | • Did you know that Limit Glove is a spelling error? It was actually    |
  |   meant to be Limit GLOBE! :)                                           |
  |                                                                         |
  '-------------------------------------------------------------------------'
Well then!


Oh, one thing about the Bells:

code:
                                                       ___________________
  .---------------------------------------------------/ GIZAMALUKE BELLS /--.
  |                                                   ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ   |
  | * Actually, you can just evade the Black Mage again. Surprisingly, you  |
  |   will still find him running around the grotto even on Disc 4. Thanks  |
  |   to Kamy41 for testing and confirming this in 2015.                    |
  |                                                                         |
  | * It's assumed that you fight the battle, but you stand to save between |
  |   40 seconds to over a minute by skipping it.                           |
  |                                                                         |
  | * If you defeat the Black Mage and pick up the soldier's Gizamaluke Bell|
  |   you'll be left with 1 bell and 1 closed door, at which point it will  |
  |   be up to you to decide what to do here on Disc 4.                     |
  |                                                                         |
  | * The Gizamaluke Bell is just as unique a key item as the Athlete Queen |
  |   or the coffees. Even if you decide to use it on Disc 4 to open the    |
  |   last door, it will still be visible that you got all of the bells. Or |
  |   you can just leave the mage alone forever.                            |
  |                                                                         |
  '-------------------------------------------------------------------------'
Those ARE some tough-rear end decisions, I agree.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

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Fabulousvillain posted:

Kuja's design has gone 200% David Bowie because he is truly Amano's legacy.
Well of course YOU like it.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

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ZiegeDame posted:

I don't know what you're all talking about with Quina being disposable. Quina is the only character besides Zidane that this game never forgets about.
Are you insinuating the game forgets Doctor Tot?!?!

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

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Maybe it's padded in the back and metal in the front because the last time she got hit there it really hurt, so she's doing all she can to prevent it from happening again!

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

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Rabbi Raccoon posted:

The Treno theme is one of my favorite compositions. There's not a lot I can listen to on repeat for more than 10 minutes or so but it's just so well done and relaxing. I love the piano in it.

I can play it on piano and it's even more fun then! :D

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

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Kheldarn posted:

LP is back, OFS is ready with another Level 1 update, and we've seen Dr. Tot. Now we just need Simply Simon to return with the Perfect Game Guide, and we're back in full swing!
Oh right, I was doing that - I would have completely forgotten! Let's see what we find in this part...I suspect it's not much in the "outrageously difficult and intricate" department because it's mostly town stuff. But I'll check regardless!

quote:

Gonna preface from now on to prevent possible confusion: I'm quoting from the Excalibur 2 Perfect Game Guide! This is how not to only beat the game at low level, but to also make a speedrun of it, and how to also not miss any missable items! It's elaborate as hell and maybe slightly insane!

First, shopping lists:
code:
    ----------------------------------
                              136,318
    ==================================
     BUY :  5 Mythril Sword     6,500
         :  5 Air Racket        2,000
         :  2 Bone Wrist          660
         :  1 Magus Hat           400
         :  9 Bandana           4,500
         :  2 Barbut            1,200
         :  1 Linen Cuirass       800
         : 14 Chain Mail       16,800
    ==================================
                              103,458
    ----------------------------------
As the guide is incredibly long, detailed and meticulously formatted already, I wouldn't dare demand additional explanations for every single decision (and often, they are given anyway) - I just really wonder right now why these items are the exact ones chosen. There must be a very specific reason for it, of course. Probably related to synthesis. You can wonder alongside me, and if you are more versed in recipes and stuff, maybe even start figuring out reasons already!

You can absolutely do the Griffin with an untrained Steiner, OFS:
code:
 o Next, optimize Steiner and activate MP Attack, Bird Killer and Counter.
 o Challenge Griffin; use a Tent on him and then just attack physically. If
   the Tent is unsuccessful, reset and try again. The battle can go very fast
   if Steiner gets the first turn and Counter activates at some point.
(I'm sure you know that and just chose not to)

We'll skip auction instructions, that's mostly about getting the items you need to show up and resetting, which is not particularly out there as far as this challenge goes. Though this is a somewhat significant branch for one decision you have to make even in a guide as micromanaged as this one: someone has to absorb EXP at a certain point in the future, and depending on your choices of which party member it is (remember, equipment gives tiny stat boni on level up!), you have to have certain equipment at hand once that EXP gain occurs. So if you choose to have Freya absorb EXP, you need to get a Pearl Rouge now. No, I won't look up what stats it conveys, that work has been done for me and everyone else already.

In the many tiny in-town steps, one shows up which I don't get:

code:
 o Go down toward the dock and speak to Baku; ignore Steiner completely or you
   won't make it to the bottom.
Won't make it...how?

Anyway, even with a bunch of Gil already made by that point (see: 100k left after the shopping list, admittedly before auctions), and with time constraints, it's still not enough money, so the guide has a mandatory trip back to Dali to buy even more Wrists at this point!

Next time: no hours of grinding up Marcus, either!

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:

It never crossed my mind because the reward is not worth 800 gil. I've consistently gotten bad Tonberry cards from this and I suspect that Tonberry just does not spawn with more than 3 arrows.
Yeah, it only seems to give that card and I don't think it's the only source of a Tonberry card? Thing is, the monster later changes into more powerful ones (which really shouldn't be surprising), and if you don't fight Griffin now, your chance to fight it here is gone. Judging from how the rest of the guide handles these things, you don't really miss out on anything, but it would be completely unacceptable to not do this fight anyway even though nobody will ever be able to tell you didn't do it.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

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I also have piano notes for Eternal Harvest. It's great fun playing the triplets, but the middle part with less melody kills me. It's really hard. Treno is far more mellow and a lot more fun overall. In general, though, I just don't practice enough.

Eternal Harvest itself is one of my absolute favourites from the game, though, short as it is.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

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quote:

Gonna preface from now on to prevent possible confusion: I'm quoting from the Excalibur 2 Perfect Game Guide! This is how not to only beat the game at low level, but to also make a speedrun of it, and how to also not miss any missable items! It's elaborate as hell and maybe slightly insane!
Last time, I stopped before Gargan Roo. Nothing much interesting happens on the way, and indeed up the trunk of, Cleyra. Ralvurahva for example is beaten by the glorious "just attack and hope" tactic.

I want to point out now that the guide does not fail to include equipment setups for pretty much every fight you have to do, for example like this for Antlion:
code:
   .=================.=================.=================.=================.
   |     ZIDANE      |      VIVI       |      FREYA      |      QUINA      |
   .=================.=================.=================.=================.
   | Butterfly Sword | Oak Staff       | Javelin         | Needle Fork     |
   | Bandana         | Bandana         | Barbut          | -               |
   | Glass Armlet    | Leather Wrist   | Mythril Gloves  | -               |
   | Leather Shirt   | Magician Robe   | Chain Mail      | -               |
   | Gold Choker     | Madain's Ring   | Reflect Ring    | Yellow Scarf    |
    >----------------+-----------------+-----------------+----------------<
   | -               | -               | -               | Millionaire     |
   '-----------------'-----------------'-----------------'-----------------'
Including instructions for how to do it quickest because it just wouldn't be complete otherwise: "Equipping Zidane and then optimizing Vivi and Freya seems to give the best results with the least need for changes afterwards."

Contrary to how OFS did it, the guide does not recommend getting Auto-Life, in fact it curiously seems to completely omit getting Blue Magic spells; for how thorough it is, that strikes me as odd. I suspect they all can be gotten at the very end of the game, are completely useless for the challenge at hand and would slow you down immensely trying to obtain them.

So the Antlion strategy:

code:
  | • Your aim here is to get Quina down to 1 HP and use Limit Glove.       |
  | • It requires a fair bit of luck, but the simplest and fastest way of   |
  |   getting this done is letting Antlion do it for you with his Sandstorm |
  |   attack.   
At least you can save the game right beforehand...

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

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Lavender menace posted:

What does the insane speedrun strategy have to say about it?
I was (like usual) waiting for OFS to finish his part so I wouldn't spoil anything he's about to do of course, and this time that means I have to wait longer. Though it seems that the wait is over soon?

But I guess I can peek ahead for this:

code:
 o Pinnacle Rocks is theoretically skippable, but since you're collecting all
   the treasure, you may as well get the story pieces; they're right next to
   the chests, after all.
That makes sense, seeing as you can't get back and all.

There is another fascinating tidbit afterwards, but I'll wait for that when OFS has posted his.

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Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

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Hobgoblin2099 posted:

Can we all agree the dwarves in this game have the most badass names ever?

I wish I had a name half as cool as Harold Pathknower. :negative:
I'm sorry you will have to settle for Hob Fartsalot, does this count as "half as cool"?

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