|
Because the only time I ever hear these phrases used are when historians are hand-waving. I don't think I have ever seen anyone spell it out, explain why he or she was a brilliant/skilled/good politician, or define it in any way before and my Google-fu unfortunately has failed me on this one. Bonus points if you can point me to a book, blog post, essay, research paper, or news article on the topic.
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 04:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 3, 2024 10:50 |
|
|
In my limited experience it basically just means someone who was democratically elected and died before a major scandal about them broke. Or someone who's accomplishments overshadowed the scandals.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 11:09
|
|
|
Politics is a game wherein the players are attempting to do 2 things: 1. Effect changes in whatever government they have some power over according to their agenda. 2. Seek positions of higher authority so that they can do more of 1. Therefore a skilled politician does both of these things well. But what does it mean to do them well? It's hard to say because sometimes a good politician compromises and works with his opponents to come up with an effective piece of legislation that works for all sides or a good politician is a bully who refuses to even hear his opponents out and strong arms his or her way to change. Sometimes it means giving an inspiring speech to your constituency and promising them hope and other times it means encouraging paranoia and fear in the populace. A good politician is an opportunist who can tell when there's an opportunity. Anything you have to do to accomplish those two goals (without sacrificing one for the other) is considered good politicking. Here are some examples of brilliant politicians and what makes them brilliant Barack Obama is an absolutely brilliant politician in that he was able to leverage a first term senatorship into a successful bid for the presidency (against Hilary Clinton and then John McCain, both skillful, entrenched DC politicians who by any measure should have had an advantage over a freshman senator new to the DC game) then use that position to pass the largest health care reform bill we've seen in decades. His later years have been stymied by the worst legislative gridlock in US history (I believe?) but this seems more due to the fact that the Republican party has refused to even play the game at all. LBJ was famous for his use of intimidation to get what he wanted politically. He would hold meetings while in the bathroom to make people uncomfortable and was famous for using his height (6'4") to his advantage as you can find images online of him violating personal space and staring down at people he is negotiating with. They were both crude but effective ways to throw his opponents off their game. On the Republican side, GWB in my mind is a classic example of a good political game player who adapted a persona and stuck with it. That homespun, simple Texan vibe he cultivated his entire career was silly but effective. In reality, he's a Yale-educated businessman from a powerful political family. He was not the ignorant Texan cowboy he pretended to be by any stretch. Say what you will about the effectiveness of this, he was able to use that persona to gain the White House for two terms, engage the US in two wars, transform our counterterrorism infrastructure, and create a successful program for targeting HIV in Africa. If you want to read about people considered good politicians, I would consider looking for stuff by or about: Paul Wellstone Barry Goldwater Ted Kennedy John McCain FDR Richard Nixon If you want fictional depictions, watch The West Wing and House of Cards.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 14:35
|
|
|
RIP Wellstone, that dude was the best (and died under super sketch circumstances).
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 14:49
|
|
|
LBJ is a particularly good example because he managed to ram some pretty major legislation through Congress that should have had a lot more opposition. It helps that he got to milk JFK's death, but that's part of what makes an effective politician.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 15:47
|
|
|
The scope here is way to wide. With something like politics, which can mean anything and everything depending on who is talking, you have to narrow it down to get good answers. You also have to split it by good as remembered by popular history or good as in they did/got what they wanted/set out to do?
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 18:49
|
|
|
Cast_No_Shadow posted:The scope here is way to wide. With something like politics, which can mean anything and everything depending on who is talking, you have to narrow it down to get good answers. This is exactly what I was thinking about when I was making my list. Nixon was a great politician. He got what he wanted even in the face of lots of obstacles and he was absolutely ruthless. He accomplished a ton during his presidency including founding the EPA, establishing diplomatic relations with China, and starting the first federal affirmative action program. The problem was that he got caught being a bit too ruthless. On the other hand, Teddy Roosevelt was not a great politician in the end. He was a great hero and a decent president, but the failures of his policy goals and his Bull Moose Party highlight his failings at actually playing the game. But which of the two is remembered more fondly in US history?
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 19:40
|
|
|
Politicians matter way less than most people give them credit for. Any of the big political achievements people will point to in threads like these were made necessary, or at least possible, by the context of the times. We just remember the name of the guy who happened to be in a position to implement it. It took lots of political maneuvering for Obama to get the ACA through, but look at the other factors- rising popular concern about insurance premiums, coalitions of pro-reform lobbyists, Democratic control of both houses of Congress and the executive, the economic drag of healthcare costs, the inefficiency of the previous system. The healthcare system was *going* to be reformed sometime, somehow, because the status quo wasn't sustainable. If Obama hadn't done it, someone else would have within the decade.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 20:41
|
|
|
the ability to build consensus without unnecessarily pissing people off.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 01:09
|
|
|
wilfredmerriweathr posted:RIP Wellstone, that dude was the best (and died under super sketch circumstances). lovely pilots crashing in bad weather is a "super sketch" to you? The only other explanations involve crazy conspiracy theories with basically no evidence to back them up.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 08:26
|
|
|
tsa posted:lovely pilots crashing in bad weather is a "super sketch" to you? The only other explanations involve crazy conspiracy theories with basically no evidence to back them up. Bad stuff never happens to people for political (power) purposes But then.. http://fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/110102_wellstone.html
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 10:37
|
|
|
Tautologicus posted:Bad stuff never happens to people for political (power) purposes  fromthewilderness.com bastion of journalistic integrity!
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 15:31
|
|
|
Rosalind posted:
It actually did have a fair amount when it was up and running. you're probably the type who thinks oswald acted alone though so what do i care what you think.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 16:34
|
|
|
i bet rosalind was the shooter in the grassy knoll
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 16:45
|
|
|
Control Volume posted:i bet rosalind was the shooter in the grassy knoll Curses foiled again! Oh well I still have my scheme give children MMR vaccines to give them super-autism-government-mind-control so that we can fake mass shootings and also the moon landing.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 16:59
|
|
|
Rosalind posted:Curses foiled again! Oh well I still have my scheme give children MMR vaccines to give them super-autism-government-mind-control so that we can fake mass shootings and also the moon landing. Good
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 17:24
|
|
|
Tautologicus posted:It actually did have a fair amount when it was up and running. you're probably the type who thinks oswald acted alone though so what do i care what you think. Don't be stupid. JFK's first act as president was to travel forward in time and kill his future self, closing the loop. This is like middle school level history guys.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 19:05
|
|
|
Geniasis posted:This is like middle school level history guys.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 21:48
|
|
|
"Skeptics" of history like to believe they are the freethinkers capable of objective analysis and the others are privy to their own wild biases, but all they really are is complacent in history. If you are complacent in your politics, you've sold your soul to the lowest, or even just the most frequent bidder. Sorry, politics is the public face of a backroom power struggle, it's not another spectacle devised purely for your entertainment.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 22:18
|
|
|
*Lee Harvey Oswald calmly racks his last round into the chamber, takes aim and fires at John F Kennedy's head, killing him instantly, brain matter splattering everywhere. Jackie Kennedy lurches backward towards the bodyguard, horrified. The crowd gasps.* "ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED??", Oswald screams down to the stunned crowd, before running down the stairs of the Book Depository towards the street. -End scene-
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 22:34
|
|
|
Keep going, Tautologicus. I wanna hear more.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 22:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 3, 2024 10:50 |
|
|
How about this source? http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2003/03/03_zdechlikm_wellstone/ quote:The day after the crash, FAA pilots tested the VOR. The inspection pilots reported to the NTSB that when they flew the approach without their automatic pilot engaged, the VOR repeatedly brought them about a mile south of the airport. In one written statement an FAA pilot told the NTSB that the signal guided him one to two miles left or south of the runway. That's the same direction Wellstone's plane was heading when it crashed. Hmm yeah that doesn't sound sketchy at all... Oh no wait, actually it's super sketch.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2015 00:54
|
|