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Radbot posted:Institute mandatory minimum wage jobs for all Americans, for a period of 6mos-3 years depending on random chance... BUT the trick is you just have to keep checking every week to see if you still have to keep that job, we don't tell you in advance. Because it's not just about the job, it's about the desperate feeling of never being able to get out. Holy poo poo, this is the best policy ever. Let's do this.
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Jul 24, 2015 20:17
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Typo posted:no offense dude but you probably shouldn't talk this way to people irl even if you do on the internet, it's a good way to lose friends and friends are awfully important even if they are assholes sometimes. No offense taken. I'm going to give you a real answer, rather than posting bullshit. I have known this guy for decades now, and he is definitely in the 1%. He doesn't even understand that his family or himself might be in jeopardy because of his job, I was trying to warn him about that originally and then it turned into a joke between us. I already lost him as a friend because he moved into a social circle I couldn't interact with. That's how life goes, he made it, I didn't. That is fine. Good for him, etc. The problem is, his livelihood puts him and and his family at risk, and he doesn't see it. There is no understanding anymore between us, because he doesn't care about people under him anymore. I don't know how this happened, he was a good guy. This is like Wolf of Wallstreet poo poo to me, he's become a loving monster. He isn't an rear end in a top hat sometimes, it is all the drat time. He lost me, I didn't lose him.
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Jul 24, 2015 20:34
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I'm pretty sure hanging the rich is a pretty long ways off Phol. Thanks for the insight about your friend though.
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Jul 25, 2015 00:36
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Voyager I posted:I'm pretty sure hanging the rich is a pretty long ways off Phol. Don't trample on my dreams.
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Jul 25, 2015 00:59
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Peel posted:This is incorrect, or if correct, irrelevant. The periphery governments (sans Greece) were fiscally responsible prior to the economic crisis. The debt crisis itself occured due to large increases in deficits caused by the recession together with private liabilities owed to northern European banks being taken onto the public balance sheet of southern European countries, occurring in a context where the countries are on an ersatz gold standard created by the Euro. Countries with post-WW2 monetary systems such as Japan, the UK or the US can swallow all those things with zero difficulty. Either we decide debt crisis is inevitable in the euro or we recognize that debt management can prevent it. V. Illych L. posted:uh austerity before the crisis would not have been austerity, as "austerity" commonly used refers to cutting spending in response to a downwards conjuncture in the economy, not countercyclical spending This is wrong. People will even refer to austerity in the U.S. to represent a state of mind despite the fact that the U.S. on the whole has done the opposite.
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Jul 25, 2015 01:02
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asdf32 posted:Either we decide debt crisis is inevitable in the euro or we recognize that debt management can prevent it. Government debt management can't do anything to resolve massive private debt being taken onto the public balance sheet. You can run a perfectly functional national budget which still collapses when all of your major banks come crawling for a bailout because they can't run their own finances properly, and your financial sector is bigger than the rest of your economy.
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Jul 25, 2015 03:49
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asdf32 posted:This is wrong. People will even refer to austerity in the U.S. to represent a state of mind despite the fact that the U.S. on the whole has done the opposite.
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Jul 25, 2015 04:17
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True, or you can be like Greece and have government spending result in a sovereign debt crisis followed by capital flight and a collapse of the banking system.
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Jul 25, 2015 04:26
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IAMNOTADOCTOR posted:True, or you can be like Greece and have government spending result in a sovereign debt crisis followed by capital flight and a collapse of the banking system.
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Jul 25, 2015 05:00
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cheese posted:That depends on your definition of austerity. The governmental response to the 2008 recession was a stimulus package only a fraction of the size of the collapse of private sector demand, and the package was laden with almost worthless tax cuts. Ok so you're suggesting austerity might be anything less than full throttle stimulus (not entirely unreasonable) and I'm getting flack for applying austerity to anything other than a failed state.
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Jul 25, 2015 16:21
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asdf32 posted:Either we decide debt crisis is inevitable in the euro or we recognize that debt management can prevent it. Debt crisis is evitable in the dollar, the pound and the yen, for reasons that have nothing to do with debt management. Debt crisis is inevitable in the euro, for reasons that have nothing to do with debt management. It is a red herring. It is focused on by European institutions and people surrounding them because it is politically indispensable, not because it is the product of good analysis.
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Jul 25, 2015 17:16
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There has been austerity in the United States. There was a (too small) stimulus package in 2008, but there have been spending cuts particularly at state level since then. Funnily enough the intransigence of the Tea Party was a benefit at the federal level, because their refusal to accept the various 'grand bargains' stymied the attempt to implement austerity there until the sequester hit.IAMNOTADOCTOR posted:True, or you can be like Greece and have government spending result in a sovereign debt crisis followed by capital flight and a collapse of the banking system. The Greek sovereign debt crisis, like the other periphery debt crises, was caused by the euro.
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Jul 25, 2015 17:29
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Peel posted:The Greek sovereign debt crisis, like the other periphery debt crises, was caused by the euro. Partly, yes. The other important parts were complete mismanagement by the greek government overusing the artificially low bond rates and the mismanagement of the banks that took up these bond and lend the money to these governments. For those arguing about the definition of austerity, have a OECD paper that discusses the most widely used and misused definitions http://www.keepeek.com/Digital-Asse...rmdxc6sq1#page6 
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Jul 25, 2015 18:11
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Pohl posted:Haha, thanks. I had that in mind when I wrote my post. Is he a bad person? Nope. wow you're almost as much of an rear end in a top hat as he is like the definition of a bad person who is a leech on society and does jack poo poo to earn it and yet here you are defending him is it really that hard to accept that there are some lovely people in this world and you might have found one?
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Jul 25, 2015 19:39
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Can't believe noone posted this yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD41YktmOH0
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Jul 26, 2015 00:29
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down with slavery posted:wow you're almost as much of an rear end in a top hat as he is I was trying to talk openly and honestly about a situation and friendship I have, and that is your response? Well, screw you.
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Jul 26, 2015 09:18
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down with slavery posted:wow you're almost as much of an rear end in a top hat as he is ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ pretty much the reason why the fringe left will stay on the fringe forever
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Jul 26, 2015 11:00
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Pohl posted:I was trying to talk openly and honestly about a situation and friendship I have, and that is your response? Well, screw you. Screw you too buddy! Believe it or not, being universally tolerant is a pretty poo poo ideology. Glad you're here to play defend-a-banker for us though. Like you literally said that a 1% banker "deserves what he earns". It's pretty disgusting to actually think that. Do you also think CEO pay should be measured in orders of magnitude above their employees? What is your idea of a "bad" person? How much is "too much" for a low level banking executive? Typo posted:^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yes, I'm the fringe leftist not this guy: Pohl posted:I gave up arguing a long time ago and just ask him how he is going to feel when his family is hanging from light poles around town. You might think I'm joking, but I'm not. He doesn't find it funny; neither do I. Who tells his 'friend' his family is going to hang from light poles but then defends him as a "good person" who "deserves what he earns". At least I'm ideologically consistent. down with slavery fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Jul 26, 2015 |
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Jul 26, 2015 16:05
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Both individuals and systems can cause systemic theft and corruption in our culture. Overall, it is the system to blame. So no, I'm not going to hate on him, because he is a good guy. Do you think everyone in the banking industry or big business is Dr. loving Evil? I don't know that I've ever been on this side of this particular argument. It is enlightening to say the least. also, I'm probably as big of a sanctimonious rear end in a top hat as you are, so maybe we can both agree to tone it down just a bit? I will, starting right now. We aren't going to be able to have a conversation otherwise. Pohl fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Jul 26, 2015 |
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Jul 26, 2015 16:21
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Pohl posted:Both individuals and systems can cause systemic theft and corruption in our culture. Overall, it is the system to blame. So no, I'm not going to hate on him, because he is a good guy. Do you think everyone in the banking industry or big business is Dr. loving Evil? Your friend sounds like a pretty massive rear end in a top hat from the way you've described him. You haven't listed any redeeming qualities.
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Jul 26, 2015 16:25
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Wait, you're friends with a banker and he's still alive? What kind of person are you, you monster. E: BRB going to kill my family for voting for Mitt Romney. And my sister for supporting Hillary.
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Jul 26, 2015 16:25
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OwlFancier posted:Your friend sounds like a pretty massive rear end in a top hat from the way you've described him. You haven't listed any redeeming qualities. That's because I was going over the poo poo I found abhorrent. Of course I'm not going to say say everything he does that I like him for, that isn't the point. Jesus, I can't even believe this is even a derail. VitalSigns posted:Wait, you're friends with a banker and he's still alive? loving thank you, I'm done talking about this.
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Jul 26, 2015 16:30
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VitalSigns posted:Wait, you're friends with a banker and he's still alive? It's not about killing bankers. It's about having the balls to actually stand up for what you believe in. I have family that's 1%ers, I don't tell them they are good people who earn what they deserve(much less spend time in D&D telling everyone else they do). I also don't tell them they are going to hang from light poles. Believe it or not, nuance can be achieved in this case! Pohl posted:Both individuals and systems can cause systemic theft and corruption in our culture. Overall, it is the system to blame. So no, I'm not going to hate on him, because he is a good guy. Do you think everyone in the banking industry or big business is Dr. loving Evil? Debate and Discussion isn't for reasoned political discussions (I wish it was, but the moderators have made it more than clear that the bar should be lowered), it's for challenging your peers and self. Quite frankly, you deserve to be challenged in that statement. I never said your friend was "Dr Evil" I said he was a poo poo person and doesn't deserve what he earns. That's ok man, people can be bad and it's not some huge evil that we need to avoid. I'm not saying he can't change his ways and be good, I'm saying right now, he's bad. If you want to have a conversation, why don't you actually address what I said, which is that do you really believe he "deserves what he earns"? Pohl posted:loving thank you, I'm done talking about this. Well that didn't take long for you to tone the sanctimonious rear end in a top hat back up. Sorry I'm not on team "everyone has redeeming qualities and we should hold hands and sing kumbayah until the heat death of the universe" You're the one who told him he's going to hang from a lightpole you nut. And frankly, if you believe 1%s earn what they deserve, you are part of the problem. down with slavery fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Jul 26, 2015 |
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Jul 26, 2015 16:33
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Oh and another pro tip, if you don't want to debate and discuss things, don't bring them up in debate and discussion. This isn't your point scoring echo chamber.
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Jul 26, 2015 16:37
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down with slavery posted:Oh and another pro tip, if you don't want to debate and discuss things, don't bring them up in debate and discussion. This isn't your point scoring echo chamber. I was talking about how horrible he was, how he changed, and how it is that we don't talk anymore. You are the one that jumped in telling me I was an evil person. I had even said, I don't even loving talk to him anymore. That really hurts me, because he was a really good friend of mine. I can't talk to him anymore because of how much he's changed. I have no problem with you, so please lay off, because I don't know what the hell your issue is.
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Jul 26, 2015 16:45
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Pohl posted:I was talking about how horrible he was, how he changed, and how it is that we don't talk anymore. I already told you, you think 1%ers earn what they deserve, and had the balls to post it. Unless you wanna address that I guess we're done because I'm some kind of monster in your eyes who has the gall to actually challenge your lovely posts/opinions. down with slavery fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Jul 26, 2015 |
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Jul 26, 2015 16:47
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down with slavery posted:I already told you, you think 1%ers earn what they deserve, and had the balls to post it. Unless you wanna address that I guess we're done because I'm some kind of monster in your eyes who has the gall to actually challenge your lovely posts/opinions. I have a lot to say but I'm not in the, well, proper frame of mind right now. I'll get back to you later. You are an angry person though. That can't be healthy.
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Jul 26, 2015 16:49
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I should just be a banker, by the time the tribunal is about to sentence me to death for my crimes against the proletariat, they will have already all killed each other to prove who is the most dedicated to excising counterrevolutionaries among the ranks, and I can just walk out and go back to swindling retirement funds and pension plans.
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Jul 26, 2015 16:50
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VitalSigns posted:I should just be a banker, by the time the tribunal is about to sentence me to death for my crimes against the proletariat, they will have already all killed each other to prove who is the most dedicated to excising counterrevolutionaries among the ranks, and I can just walk out and go back to swindling retirement funds and pension plans. Ahh yes, challenging a fellow leftist to examine their beliefs is equivalent to arguing they should be killed. - a reasonable D&D poster Pohl posted:I have a lot to say but I'm not in the, well, proper frame of mind right now. bahahahahaha keep those personal attacks coming I'm an "angry person" because I think income inequality exists and should be dealt with. Truly a nuanced position you've stumbled across. down with slavery fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Jul 26, 2015 |
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Jul 26, 2015 16:51
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I would go so far as to venture that an exceedingly wealthy person who sees everyone who earns less money than them as beneath them and undeserving is possibly not a good person.
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Jul 26, 2015 16:55
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down with slavery posted:Ahh yes, challenging a fellow leftist to examine their beliefs is equivalent to arguing they should be killed. I should have stuck to what I said and not responded anymore, but your right; I'm an idiot. I'm going for a walk.
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Jul 26, 2015 16:57
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Pohl posted:I should have stuck to what I said and not responded anymore, but your right; I'm an idiot. Do you realize how easy it would be for you to just say "You're right, the 1%'s income actually isn't deserved, I made a small slipup" instead of playing defend-a-post until your brain literally collapses from the cognitive dissonance.
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Jul 26, 2015 16:58
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With the exception of the Michael Foot vid, this page has been utter dross thanks to the above slapfight.
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Jul 26, 2015 18:04
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I'm going to quote this for later so I can read and digest it. Thanks for posting it.
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Jul 26, 2015 18:18
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Why is this E/N?
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Jul 26, 2015 19:36
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Pohl posted:
VitalSigns is being sarcastic
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Jul 26, 2015 21:37
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See the reality is its better to renege on your payments and declare bankrupty because even with ruined credit you still have the meager hard cash of $5 in your pocket and this is a good way to run a country's finances.
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Jul 29, 2015 19:21
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ColoradoCleric posted:See the reality is its better to renege on your payments and declare bankrupty because even with ruined credit you still have the meager hard cash of $5 in your pocket and this is a good way to run a country's finances. when the alternative is selling your home to pay ultimately pointless debt that could be haircut tomorrow if people had the guts to admit austrian economics make no sense, giving them your money on-hand to pay a fraction of the debt, then still being on the hook for said debt while now having no way to pay them back... Yeah. Defaulting is a better idea than cutting off your legs to save your loan shark the time.
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Jul 29, 2015 19:26
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Neurolimal posted:when the alternative is selling your home to pay ultimately pointless debt that could be haircut tomorrow if people had the guts to admit austrian economics make no sense, giving them your money on-hand to pay a fraction of the debt, then still being on the hook for said debt while now having no way to pay them back... I wonder what Greece would have had to do to rack up so much debt where this even becomes an issue.
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Jul 29, 2015 19:31
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ColoradoCleric posted:See the reality is its better to renege on your payments and declare bankrupty because even with ruined credit you still have the meager hard cash of $5 in your pocket and this is a good way to run a country's finances. Leaving aside that a country's finances don't operate under the same principles as your finances, if you're insolvent then it's literally better to declare bankruptcy than to keep trying to pay back a debt that you can't afford. This is why bankruptcy law exists in the first place. ColoradoCleric posted:I wonder what Greece would have had to do to rack up so much debt where this even becomes an issue. You need to impose so much austerity that your GDP tanks by like a quarter in a few years. This is how you reach the dizzying heights of about 175% debt to GDP, even though the nominal value of the debt is lower than it was before the poo poo hit the fan.
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Jul 29, 2015 19:37
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