|
Not to mention quite a few targets of historical US imperialism i.e vietnam and the philipines are today all but begging the us to stay in their region to protect them against potential regional hegemon china
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2015 20:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 11:00 |
|
|
Typo posted:I think all of us understands there are shitloads stuff the us do is pretty evil, especially during the cold war era. You see it taken for granted that a critical stance is the healthy one but recognizing positive things and how/why they worked is also critical. It's really not that hard to recognize positives and negatives at the same time with appropriate perspective. Not being able to do that is a hallmark of bad ideology. asdf32 fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Jul 23, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2015 20:10
|
|
|
Despite our hegemony, we've allowed the oceans to become really dangerous again though. I'm very firmly in favor of blasting African pirates into dust if it means Euros can sail down the horn, and other formerly proper colonies.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2015 21:26
|
|
|
fspades posted:Can anybody actually defend US hegemony as a good thing that should be perpetuated with force and terror if necessary? I honestly think that's a more rational position to take here. Why do we need US hegemony? Liberal democracy is better than any other system that currently vies for influence The minute it goes away a shitload of wars will start Europe and East Asia will end up the bitches of their respective autocratic nuclear states Various aspects of UN law no longer have de-facto US enforcement so you might as well just disband the entire institution for how much of a farce it'll become The sheer fact of geography more or less ensures US preponderance in both major oceans It makes idiots on internet forums cry This is all just off the top of my head
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2015 21:31
|
|
|
Fojar38 posted:
This is not necessarly a bad thing considering how static western life has become, and there's too many people alive globally to be frank. An 80% population increase in 50 years is maddening.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2015 21:33
|
|
|
Nonsense posted:This is not necessarly a bad thing considering how static western life has become, and there's too many people alive globally to be frank. When you think of it couldn't we all use a little more living space.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2015 21:39
|
|
|
Nonsense posted:This is not necessarly a bad thing considering how static western life has become, and there's too many people alive globally to be frank. this is the worst reason to be skeptical of/oppose liberal democracy hth
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2015 21:57
|
|
|
DeusExMachinima posted:And it's really telling horselord, et al. are avoiding this point I wouldn't be "Oppressed" in China because I like the Communist Party Of China. So the question really is gibberish.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 00:59
|
|
|
I suppose we ought to be fair to HorseLord - he himself would probably do very well as a guest of the Middle Kingdom. The CPC needs Useful Idiots to be their stooges in the wider world as much as Comrade kapparomeo fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Jul 24, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 01:48
|
|
|
kapparomeo posted:I suppose we ought to be fair to HorseLord - he himself would probably do very well as a guest of the Middle Kingdom. The CPC needs Useful Idiots to be their stooges in the wider world as much as Comrade otoh plenty of said useful idiots living in the ussr found themselves unfortunately purged during the 1930s
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 01:52
|
|
|
HorseLord posted:I wouldn't be "Oppressed" in China because I like the Communist Party Of China. So the question really is gibberish. Agreed, you'd just be the oppressor instead, as all internet communists typically envision themselves.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 02:09
|
|
|
Fojar38 posted:Agreed, you'd just be the oppressor instead, as all internet communists typically envision themselves. Liberals like us deserve it though.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 02:17
|
|
|
point of return posted:this is the worst reason to be skeptical of/oppose liberal democracy hth Especially considering that birth rates across the developed world have been dropping quite a bit over the past couple decades.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 02:51
|
|
|
I think the only way to decide which system is better is bodycount since WW2. So what has directly or indirectly resulted in the deaths of more people. Capitalism or Communism?
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 02:53
|
|
|
crabcakes66 posted:I think the only way to decide which system is better is bodycount since WW2. The correct answer is "the development of agriculture"
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 03:32
|
|
|
crabcakes66 posted:I think the only way to decide which system is better is bodycount since WW2. A typical statistics error. You should be asking which resulted in more deaths per capita.  (It's probably communism, but there are confounding factors like, for example, the tendency of the transition to a workers' paradise being accompanied by a vicious revolution that puts an autocrat in power who then does the things that an autocrat tends to do.) Relatedly, Fojar: pre-agriculture war resulted in an ABSOLUTE poo poo TON of deaths per capita. Mostly because the total capita was very modest.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 03:36
|
|
|
China under the CCP is more capitalist today than the US.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 04:57
|
|
|
TheImmigrant posted:China under the CCP is more capitalist today than the US. That's a good point. So if capitalism is bad and China is more capitalist. They are the worse country.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 05:04
|
|
|
Eh, never mind
twerking on the railroad fucked around with this message at 08:27 on Jul 24, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 08:24
|
|
|
HorseLord posted:I wouldn't be "Oppressed" in China because I like the Communist Party Of China. So the question really is gibberish. TheImmigrant posted:China under the CCP is more capitalist today than the US. Yup, so Horselord isn't a true He's a living Che t-shirt.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 16:51
|
|
|
AlexanderCA posted:Yup, so Horselord isn't a true "hey guys! China is capitalist now! They're full free market and everything! Clearly they're not real communists at all" -factory workers regularly kidnap bosses in wage disputes, police do nothing -CPC has heavy control over all businesses, enacts five year plans -businessmen who go against the party are snatched off the street by CPC murder vans -Over half the economy is SOEs -CPC ideology solidly marxist Makes sense. Actually I'm glad you're stupid enough to think this, the Chinese model of development is heavily reliant on westerners thinking they're capitalists. If you actually bothered to understand that they're running a heavily controlled unfree market to accelerate development, which they intend to end when it has exhausted itself, then you wouldn't participate. You're selling them the rope, morons. Actually it's kind of funny because this development model is already something they're transitioning out of. But you'll never grasp this because you're too busy trying to analyze them through the lens of a western capitalist multiparty democracy, pronouncing the imminent start of the Chinese recession(tm) every day for decades. This is the exact kind of delusion westerners had about Lenin's NEP. HorseLord fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Jul 24, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 17:49
|
|
|
HorseLord posted:"hey guys! China is capitalist now! They're full free market and everything!" Mainland China is as communist as the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is democratic or a republic. Also, I am a powerful Transformer dumptruck with pyrokinetic ability. I do, however, believe that you are a horse.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 17:53
|
|
|
Only thing China does that is Correct is the execution of billionaires when they get too greedy and gently caress over a Party member.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 18:43
|
|
|
HorseLord posted:"hey guys! China is capitalist now! They're full free market and everything! Clearly they're not real communists at all" Now do one defending North Korea.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 18:54
|
|
|
"It'll be different this time. I promise."
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 18:56
|
|
|
AlexanderCA posted:Now do one defending North Korea. TheImmigrant posted:I do, however, believe that you are a horse.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 19:11
|
|
|
Rent-A-Cop posted:He already did for a couple pages then mysteriously went silent when KCNA's website started working again and it turned out that the DPRK is, in fact, indefensible. No, actually, just most of the people making GBS threads up the thread on that page are on my ignore list so I can't see. Regardless one news story with spurious product claims doesn't change a thing, and you made that part about them attributing it to "dear leader" up anyway. I am entirely correct about everything I've said about the DPRK being a) not a Marxist-Leninist state, b) not desiring communism, and c) targeted heavily by a propaganda campaign full of falsehoods with a dehumanizing effect (see: all media insisting the DPRK believe in unicorns and Kim Jong Un's girlfriend was shot), d) being a unique product of history which it is neither desirable nor possible to repeat. The DPRK is a shitshow but gently caress it I'll always side with them over you. No Korean ever carpetbombed D.C. HorseLord fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Jul 24, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 19:18
|
|
|
DPRK is better because it has never bombed anyone unlike AMERIKKKA.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 19:34
|
|
|
Crowsbeak posted:DPRK is better because it has never bombed anyone unlike AMERIKKKA. Also, Best Korea does not have Black political prisoners like Mumia Abdul Jabbar.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 19:39
|
|
|
HorseLord posted:I'll always side with them over you. No Korean ever carpetbombed D.C. Edit: I don't want to get banned when the Secret Service shows up at Lowtax's house again so let me clarify. The above statement was made in jest. Some of DC is actually quite nice. I support the safe, secure, humane, and cost effective confinement of the US political class in a facility where they can no longer harm themselves or others. Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Jul 24, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 19:44
|
|
|
Rent-A-Cop posted:He already did for a couple pages then mysteriously went silent when KCNA's website started working again and it turned out that the DPRK is, in fact, indefensible. Does the horse get turned into glue after the act?
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 20:10
|
|
|
 LEAVE NORTH KOREA ALONE
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 20:27
|
|
|
Rent-A-Cop posted:I never carpetbombed D.C. either but TBH that's more due to a lack of funds than a lack of desire. I live in DC, but work in the private sector. If you go after DC, please hit the post offices during working hours first. And the DMV.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 20:37
|
|
|
HorseLord posted:"hey guys! China is capitalist now! They're full free market and everything! Clearly they're not real communists at all" China's a kleptocracy, plain and simple. The businesses that succeed are the ones that suck up to the party. SOEs are graft machines set up for the benefit of the party elite. Sure, it's not free market capitalism, but proper communism it is not (and if it is that's a pretty loving dire sign for communism). And China's going to have an economic reckoning soon enough. Or do you think that the bloated housing market, propped-up bubble of a stock exchange, high domestic debt levels, and attempt to switch to a consumption economy with a tiny middle class is going to magically work out on its own? The party can't just wish that away.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 20:39
|
|
|
HorseLord posted:No, actually, just most of the people making GBS threads up the thread on that page are on my ignore list so I can't see. Regardless one news story with spurious product claims doesn't change a thing, and you made that part about them attributing it to "dear leader" up anyway. I love that China is obviously communist and NK obviously isn't.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 20:44
|
|
|
HorseLord posted:most of the people making GBS threads up the thread on that page are on my ignore list so I can't see. You loving baby
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 20:45
|
|
|
If mainland China isn't capitalist, I wonder how over 8,000 PRC citizens are able to come up with $1 million in investment capital for EB-5 visas to the US ... every year. That doesn't count the number of visas wealthy Chinese capitalists have been able to buy for Canada or Australia. Go to cities like Vancouver, Toronto, New York, San Francisco, Chicago, Sydney, and look at the local real-estate markets. Prices are going through the roof as Chinese capitalists park their money in property there. But yeah, they have cool symbols and a 'C' in their official party name, so, like, communism and poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 20:46
|
|
|
Lol if you actually use the ignore list because you're so traumatized by reading words from people who don't agree with you
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 20:49
|
|
|
The Lord of Hats posted:And China's going to have an economic reckoning soon enough. Or do you think that the bloated housing market, propped-up bubble of a stock exchange, high domestic debt levels, and attempt to switch to a consumption economy with a tiny middle class is going to magically work out on its own? The party can't just wish that away. HorseLord posted:Actually it's kind of funny because this development model is already something they're transitioning out of. But you'll never grasp this because you're too busy trying to analyze them through the lens of a western capitalist multiparty democracy, pronouncing the imminent start of the Chinese recession(tm) every day for decades. This is the exact kind of delusion westerners had about Lenin's NEP.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 20:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 11:00 |
|
|
You don't get to handwave it away like that. China does not exist in some parallel universe where the laws of physics are wildly different. There are tons of Chinese citizens who have money in the stock market because it was hugely encouraged, and many of them bought on the margin. Either the market crashes, in which case a huge chunk of the population is completely hosed, or you prop up the market with government funds--which is quickly a huge drain on the government, or you just do what they're doing and turn the entire market so illiquid that the shares are worthless anyways because nobody wants to buy into that farce. I don't c are how authoritarian you are, you can't make that scale of event unhappen.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2015 21:22
|
|