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Is Dracula Real? I don't mean the book. I mean the vampire. Now, our so-called "common sense" would suggest that no, vampires and therefore Dracula is not real. However, I think we're all aware of examples of how common sense can be flawed, for instance, in the fields of quantum mechanics, or economics. Therefore it isn't automatically to be trusted in the field of Dracula studies and investigation. So common sense is not a good tool to use when answering the titular question. What of science? Our current understanding of science suggests that when a person dies, they do not rise again to become an immortal being that sustains its unlife on the blood of the living. However, there are several flaws in this argument: 1. Science has not, to my knowledge, investigated Dracula. To quote the Tractatus, "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent." Science, as both a body of knowledge and a process, is not a firm foundation for arguments for or against the existence of Dracula. It is possible there are scientific studies re: Dracula, but I'm not aware of any, so please don't make scientific claims about Dracula unless you can provide said studies. 2. Science presumes magic and the supernatural are not real. That's all well and good, but Dracula-as-a-being presumes they are real. Either a. Science is flawed, or b. Dracula is not real. While science has no doubt proven useful in addressing many questions, this is not evidence that it is able to answer all questions, nor would most scientists hold that it is able to answer all questions humankind can pose. Perhaps the existence of Dracula is a question science cannot address. Or perhaps it can, and science, Dracula, and magic (insofar as it relates to vampires) can be reconciled. Unless (1.) is addressed, though, this point remains in doubt. 3. Common biases and preconceptions hold that vampires do not exist as real, probably malevolent, bloodsucking immortal entities. However, the earlier point re: common sense applies here. So please refrain from using arguments such as "everybody knows vampires aren't real," and "this is a stupid thread." Furthermore answering this question probably involves several subdisciplines ranging from ontology to history to biology, so please don't expect everyone to have mastered these fields before forming an opinion -- however, any input from experts in these fields would probably be useful. Now, I'm not saying Dracula definitely exists. But I can't claim he doesn't exist either. I do have a strong suspicion Dracula is real, and if I had to put money on it, I would bet that yes, he's real. But please don't accuse me of being a garlic-clutching Van Helsingite. I'm just asking questions. Sharkie fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Jul 27, 2015 |
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Jul 27, 2015 00:40
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Call the watchers council and request a Slayer.
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Jul 27, 2015 00:42
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One of my exes claimed to be a vampire, and I believe her. That doesn't mean Dracula is real, but it certainly seems probable.
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Jul 27, 2015 00:43
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"Science presumes magic and the supernatural are not real." I don't think this is a presumption at all I think if anybody was able to whip up some magic the books would be fixed lickety split.
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Jul 27, 2015 00:43
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loving lol (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 27, 2015 00:45
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I heard if you get like 300 gold coins together you can hire some white haired dude who will kill the vampire and sleep with your daughter
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Jul 27, 2015 00:46
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i want to believe
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Jul 27, 2015 00:47
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Crowsbeak posted:Call the watchers council and request a Slayer. This presupposes that Buffy accurately describes reality. Now if that were true, we could say that Dracula at one point did exist, but has been slain by Buffy (season 5). Now, the question I asked was "Is Dracula real," not, "Has Dracula ever been real." Therefore, your answer presupposes that Dracula is not real (because he ceased to exist once slain*). Thank you for your answer. *Or did he? This requires the answering of several questions related to religion, philosophy, and the larger Buffy canon I am not equipped to answer. Lumberjack Bonanza posted:One of my exes claimed to be a vampire, and I believe her. That doesn't mean Dracula is real, but it certainly seems probable. I would consider it evidence in his favor, yes.
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Jul 27, 2015 00:47
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reignofevil posted:"Science presumes magic and the supernatural are not real." Fair enough. Would you agree though that science, or at least the scientific community, presumes they are recognizable to science and open to scientific analysis?
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Jul 27, 2015 00:49
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hey op look I know that you think this is smart and insightful and stuff but you are basically just running an appeal to ignorance and the impossibility of proving a negative. I can't prove dracula isn't real anymore than you can't prove god or a six foot dragon on mars don't exist
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Jul 27, 2015 00:54
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Typo posted:hey op look I know that you think this is smart and insightful and stuff but you are basically just running an appeal to ignorance and the impossibility of proving a negative. I can't prove dracula isn't real anymore than you can't prove god or a six foot dragon on mars don't exist Everyone knows God isn't real, poo poo. Comparing the two arguments is very disingenuous. Six Foot Mars Dragon, jury's still out on.
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Jul 27, 2015 00:57
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Sharkie posted:Is Dracula Real? The only scientific paper I read on the subject came to the conclusion Dracula wasn't real, as vampires would be feeding on humans constantly and consequently would be reproducing at a geometric rate. If Dracula was real as described in Dracula, we'd all be Draculas by now.
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Jul 27, 2015 00:58
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:The only scientific paper I read on the subject came to the conclusion Dracula wasn't real, as vampires would be feeding on humans constantly and consequently would be reproducing at a geometric rate. If Dracula was real as described in Dracula, we'd all be Draculas by now. But i thought you had to be purposefully made into a vampire, otherwise you're just some dude getting blood drained?
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Jul 27, 2015 01:00
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You should always believe people unless they have given you cause to believe they are liars I have nothing against Bram Stoker, therefor I believe him
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Jul 27, 2015 01:04
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The only Dracula that matters is the one that fought the Silver Surfer that one time.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:05
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 He goes by the name "Alucard" now.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:06
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Typo posted:hey op look I know that you think this is smart and insightful and stuff but you are basically just running an appeal to ignorance and the impossibility of proving a negative. I can't prove dracula isn't real anymore than you can't prove god or a six foot dragon on mars don't exist REported for shitposting.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:07
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Literally The Worst posted:REported for shitposting. Way ahead of you
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Jul 27, 2015 01:08
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site posted:But i thought you had to be purposefully made into a vampire, otherwise you're just some dude getting blood drained? Maybe, but either way if Dracula was real the Wolf Man would have killed him by now.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:11
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Maybe this is slightly off topic, but if we assume Dracula is real, do you think he's sexy?
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Jul 27, 2015 01:12
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Typo posted:hey op look I know that you think this is smart and insightful and stuff but you are basically just running an appeal to ignorance and the impossibility of proving a negative. I can't prove dracula isn't real anymore than you can't prove god or a six foot dragon on mars don't exist Why should we stifle debate just because the answer isn't knowable? Are you telling me that philosophy degrees are meaningless?
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Jul 27, 2015 01:13
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:Maybe, but either way if Dracula was real the Wolf Man would have killed him by now. Oh come on, the wolf man isn't real. We have full moons every month there's no way we wouldn't have encountered one by now! Now Frankenstein, he could take Drac.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:13
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:Maybe, but either way if Dracula was real the Wolf Man would have killed him by now. Dracula is a long book. It defies Reason that any man would spend so long writing down something that is not true. What could possibly motivate duplicity on such a grandiose scale?
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Jul 27, 2015 01:13
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Maybe this is slightly off topic, but if we assume Dracula is real, do you think he's sexy? He can seduce the pants off of Winona Ruder so you tell me.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:14
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If Dracula is real then every Scottish mythical creature including Nuckelavee, Cirein-cròin, Cù Sìth and Each Uisge are wandering the lands and waters as of now.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:15
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Gravel Gravy posted:He can seduce the pants off of Winona Ruder so you tell me. Please, friend, we're talking about reality, not fiction.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:15
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Stalin is actually good. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 27, 2015 01:15
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PupsOfWar posted:Dracula is a long book. My experience with the internet at large suggests crippling loneliness as a motivator.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:16
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Please, friend, we're talking about reality, not fiction. I dunno, i hear she's nuts now. Shed probably go for it. Plus shes probably jealous from catching her friend getting some vampire d
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Jul 27, 2015 01:16
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Please, friend, we're talking about reality, not fiction. Did Bram Stoker not write a historical account?
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Jul 27, 2015 01:16
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Extreme0 posted:If Dracula is real then every Scottish mythical creature including Nuckelavee, Cirein-cròin, Cù Sìth and Each Uisge are wandering the lands and waters as of now. Oh man, these dudes just look so happy. They know they've got all the right dance moves.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:17
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Gravel Gravy posted:Did Bram Stoker not write a historical account? That's up to interpretation. Many texts have been written about Dracula, but one need not believe any one of them. I choose to believe he lives in America and eats burgers.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:19
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Typo posted:hey op look I know that you think this is smart and insightful and stuff but you are basically just running an appeal to ignorance and the impossibility of proving a negative. I can't prove dracula isn't real anymore than you can't prove god or a six foot dragon on mars don't exist We may never be able to speak conclusively on the existence of Dracula, indeed given the possible supra natural aspects of the subject, a definitive and/or scientific answer may be impossible. However we won't know unless we try, and the possible unanswerability of a question is no reason to claim there should be no debate and discussion of the topic. "How can we design the perfect society" may be similarly unanswerable yet the question itself has merit and indeed has been the engine of much of human history, furthermore it is the basis of several threads. Extreme0 posted:If Dracula is real then every Scottish mythical creature including Nuckelavee, Cirein-cròin, Cù Sìth and Each Uisge are wandering the lands and waters as of now. Maybe? I'm not following your reasoning, sorry. PupsOfWar posted:Dracula is a long book. Yeah, if we accept that people act in their best interests, and more or less rationally, it would seem that nobody would devote that much time to an obvious falsehood. So if you're throwing out the existence of Dracula, or the evidence presented in the book, well, you may as well throw out 20th century economics. Which may well be necessary, but that's for another thread.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:24
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:The only scientific paper I read on the subject came to the conclusion Dracula wasn't real, as vampires would be feeding on humans constantly and consequently would be reproducing at a geometric rate. If Dracula was real as described in Dracula, we'd all be Draculas by now. Link? No offense but I'd like to see their work and judge its validity and reproducibility myself. site posted:But i thought you had to be purposefully made into a vampire, otherwise you're just some dude getting blood drained? This is the first objection I thought of, as well.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:26
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http://www.csicop.org/si/show/cinema_fiction_vs._physics_reality/ It's an article, not a paper. I misremembered.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:29
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Sharkie posted:Link? No offense but I'd like to see their work and judge its validity and reproducibility myself. I know that respected and well known investigative piece Interview with the Vampire clearly spells this out. Sharkie posted:Yeah, if we accept that people act in their best interests, and more or less rationally, it would seem that nobody would devote that much time to an obvious falsehood. So if you're throwing out the existence of Dracula, or the evidence presented in the book, well, you may as well throw out 20th century economics. Which may well be necessary, but that's for another thread. Makes you wonder why the delineate between "fiction" and "nonfiction" when obviously every story is real, just various degrees of believeability. site fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Jul 27, 2015 |
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Jul 27, 2015 01:32
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:http://www.csicop.org/si/show/cinema_fiction_vs._physics_reality/ Can you post something more recent? This article is near a decade old and the field of quantum phenomena requires constant updates to maintain validity.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:32
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Considering they did not manage to actually kill Dracula according to their own papers, I would say Dracula is still real and alive, so to speak.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:33
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Gravel Gravy posted:Can you post something more recent? This article is near a decade old and the field of quantum phenomena requires constant updates to maintain validity. I'm not current in the field of Draculaology, my focus is on Mummy Critical Theory.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:34
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:I'm not current in the field of Draculaology, my focus is on Mummy Critical Theory. Is it hard to wrap your head around?
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Jul 27, 2015 01:35
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