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 The wait is over. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/29/world/middleeast/jonathan-pollard-spy-for-israel-to-be-released-on-parole-in-november.html http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/u-s-grants-parole-israeli-spy-jonathan-pollard-n399836 From the NBC article: >The board's decision requires Pollard to remain in the U.S. for five years after his release, and his lawyers said they had found housing and employment for him in New York. But they called on President Obama to allow him to leave prison early and move to Israel immediately. >"We respectfully urge the President to exercise his clemency power in this manner." Your thoughts?
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Jul 29, 2015 02:13
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gently caress that guy he should rot in federal prison until he dies.
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Jul 29, 2015 02:18
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Joe Biden also famously opposed releasing Pollard, though most of the links I could find with a quick "joe biden jonathan pollard" Google search were from the Israeli press.
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Jul 29, 2015 02:24
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Zeroisanumber posted:gently caress that guy he should rot in federal prison until he dies.
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Jul 29, 2015 02:33
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Zeroisanumber posted:gently caress that guy he should rot in federal prison until he dies.
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Jul 29, 2015 02:33
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I wouldn't give it a poo poo, but Pollard's imprisonment pisses off the terrible nationalist Israelis so gently caress him.
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Jul 29, 2015 02:36
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My thought is death to spies.
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Jul 29, 2015 02:37
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Who's the loving superpower here?
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Jul 29, 2015 02:41
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McDowell posted:Who's the loving superpower here? AIPAC, obviously.
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Jul 29, 2015 02:47
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Can someone give/link me some details about Pollard? He was before my time and google's just telling me "he gave info to Israel and Netanyahu likes him".
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Jul 29, 2015 03:29
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Rollofthedice posted:Can someone give/link me some details about Pollard? He was before my time and google's just telling me "he gave info to Israel and Netanyahu likes him". That's pretty much it. Wikipedia is as good a source as any for the basics.
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Jul 29, 2015 03:59
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Rollofthedice posted:Can someone give/link me some details about Pollard? He was before my time and google's just telling me "he gave info to Israel and Netanyahu likes him". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard#Espionage he worked for the navy and sold military secrets to israel (as well as other interested parties)
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Jul 29, 2015 04:01
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Darkman Fanpage posted:My thought is death to spies. Or at least not a traitor's hero's welcome.
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Jul 29, 2015 04:14
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His release has to be part of the Iran deal. The timing is too convenient. 
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Jul 29, 2015 04:26
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Something tells me this is the ball massage israel got in exchange for the iran thing. I guess this means at least 50% of kirschen's cartoon material is over with so expect more cartoons about how palestinians are literal animals and arabs are stinky people that hate the jews ad nauseum.
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Jul 29, 2015 04:28
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peengers posted:so expect more cartoons about how palestinians are literal animals and arabs are stinky people that hate the jews ad nauseum. We already get that though?
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Jul 29, 2015 04:41
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I wish I could throw a nuclear bitchfit every time something didn't go my way and get results like this
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Jul 29, 2015 04:43
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Rollofthedice posted:Can someone give/link me some details about Pollard? He was before my time and google's just telling me "he gave info to Israel and Netanyahu likes him". Pollard was just a spy, what really pissed off the US is that instead of apologizing and hushing it all up like most countries do when their spies get caught, Israel instead decided to strut around like the guy was a loving national hero and deserved a medal. There were senior Israeli politicoes who were going and visiting the guy in prison, and for years Israel has been pissing and moaning about our continued imprisonment of a man who wasn't even a loving Israeli citizen when he was caught. MrQwerty posted:I wish I could throw a nuclear bitchfit every time something didn't go my way and get results like this That's at least one heartening thing about the past couple decades, is that "gently caress Jonathon Pollard and gently caress your whining about our imprisonment of an American citizen convicted of spying on America" has generally been a pretty bipartisan position in Washington. Israel's been crying about his imprisonment for years and never got anywhere with either Democrats or Republicans. Guaranteed the only reason he's coming out now is to try to get the Israeli government to shut up about Iran, but I bet those ingrates won't last a week before going back to yelling about how we've totally destroyed their security by deciding we didn't want to just grind Iran into permanent poverty.
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Jul 29, 2015 04:54
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MrQwerty posted:I wish I could throw a nuclear bitchfit every time something didn't go my way and get results like this Israel sells American intelligence to hostile foreign powers with no consequences all the time, it's only fair that this guy should be able to as well
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Jul 29, 2015 05:09
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Zeroisanumber posted:gently caress that guy he should rot in federal prison until he dies. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 29, 2015 05:13
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Twenty-nine years is long enough prison for pretty much any crime. Good for Pollard.
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Jul 29, 2015 06:35
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icantfindaname posted:Israel sells American intelligence to hostile foreign powers with no consequences all the time, it's only fair that this guy should be able to as well Can you provide a source for this? I haven't heard that before.
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Jul 29, 2015 07:08
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Sethik posted:Can you provide a source for this? I haven't heard that before. Well there's the time they offered to sell nukes to apartheid South Africa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#Alleged_collaboration_with_Israel Besides that they've sold military technology to China and are one of the largest arms exporters in the world generally https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Israel_relations#Military_cooperation I'm about to go to bed so I don't have more but basically the idea that Israel is a faithful US ally is a great exaggeration at best and the Israelis have played us for suckers for decades
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Jul 29, 2015 07:23
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Why does the US have such a major hard on for this particular belligerent middle-eastern nation anyway?
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Jul 29, 2015 07:32
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OwlFancier posted:Why does the US have such a major hard on for this particular belligerent middle-eastern nation anyway? Some combination of "the Israeli lobby is extraordinarily strong and there is no real counterbalance", "evangelicals like Israel for their own weird reasons", "gently caress muslims am I right", and maaaaybe a perception that US interests are well served by keeping the Arab world weak and fractious and Israel's dickery in that direction is more worthwhile than the considerable downsides of supporting them in all things.
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Jul 29, 2015 07:52
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OwlFancier posted:Why does the US have such a major hard on for this particular belligerent middle-eastern nation anyway? There's a lot of reason to support them (influential lobby, lots of money) and not a lot of reason to oppose them (there are no Muslims with an influential lobby and lots of money that's not tied to the Bushes).
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Jul 29, 2015 07:54
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I personally am waiting for MIGF to tell us that Israel is a unique example of Western liberal democracy in the Middle East, they are a brave underdog who appeals to the US voter and also that it's America's way of attoning for the terrible anti-semitism the Western world has always shown and thus opposing Israel is taking an anti-semitic stand against liberal democracy. Which is always fascinating coming from a guy who spends all his other posts talking about the importance of political realities and realpolitik and how politicians can't and shouldn't take some blanket moral stand on an issue. I still can't quite tell if it's some particular political persona he's adopted, a hilarious satire on the essential hypocrisy of insider thinking in Washington regarding foreign policy or just taking strongly contrarian positions for the sake of eliciting responses from other posters. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 29, 2015 08:15
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I wonder what employment Pollard found and if it'll be at a company with secrets to sell to the highest bidder.
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Jul 29, 2015 09:39
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Eh, can't get mad because somebody got to leave the American prison system. Good for him.
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Jul 29, 2015 09:42
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MrNemo posted:
How can you not tell this on the somethingawful.com dying comedy forums botany posted:Eh, can't get mad because somebody got to leave the American prison system. Good for him. Pretty much. Also hopefully he's allowed to gently caress off to Israel rather than sit around on parole that no one expects him to violate but we have to pay for and talk about because reasons.
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Jul 29, 2015 09:46
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gently caress him. And gently caress his little cheerleader Kirschen too.
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Jul 29, 2015 10:46
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Fry Jonathan Pollard.
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Jul 29, 2015 10:56
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botany posted:Eh, can't get mad because somebody got to leave the American prison system. Good for him. Yeah this is how I feel. He's been in prison for a significant portion of his life.
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Jul 29, 2015 11:54
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Of all the people in US prisons he's one of the few who should actually be there.
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Jul 29, 2015 12:23
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Abner Cadaver II posted:Of all the people in US prisons he's one of the few who should actually be there. Why? He's clearly not a danger to society, and he can't exactly go back to spying now that everybody knows who he is. Outside of retributive justice, there is no coherent reason that I can see for why he should be locked up.
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Jul 29, 2015 12:32
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botany posted:Why? He's clearly not a danger to society, and he can't exactly go back to spying now that everybody knows who he is. Outside of retributive justice, there is no coherent reason that I can see for why he should be locked up. Deterrence for one. "Spy for Israel, we'll pay you out the rear end and if you get caught we will bitch, moan, put you in our history textbooks and if you get out we will give you a hero's welcome". Edit: Still it's his time to get out anyway, doesn't much matter.
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Jul 29, 2015 12:52
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Deterrence is a lovely basis for imprisonment, not just because it doesn't work but also because it's unfair toward individuals to punish them not for what they have done but to make a statement. You're basically saying that Pollard deserves to remain locked up because freeing him would look politically inconvenient. That's not justice.
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Jul 29, 2015 12:54
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botany posted:Deterrence is a lovely basis for imprisonment, not just because it doesn't work but also because it's unfair toward individuals to punish them not for what they have done but to make a statement. You're basically saying that Pollard deserves to remain locked up because freeing him would look politically inconvenient. That's not justice. I think you are confusing common criminality with treason. Making the risks and costs of treason too great to consider is an effective deterrent when your country's experience with espionage has largely focused on financial gain. But his 30 year sentence is up so not much point arguing about it.
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Jul 29, 2015 13:04
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botany posted:Deterrence is a lovely basis for imprisonment, not just because it doesn't work Deterrence works with certain crimes better than others. For example deterrence has more effect on economical crimes where persons doing them usually calculate risk/reward incentives more rationally than homicides where guy who gets blackout drunk ends up stabbing his drinking partner. Espionage and treason usually are closer to former type of crime than latter.
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Jul 29, 2015 13:10
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botany posted:Why? He's clearly not a danger to society, and he can't exactly go back to spying now that everybody knows who he is. Outside of retributive justice, there is no coherent reason that I can see for why he should be locked up. Because the penalty for treason is death, or life in a box. Aldrich Ames and Robert Hanssen aren't likely to cause much harm either, but neither of them are ever going to see the light of day. This is exacerbated by the fact that the Israeli right holds Pollard in such high regard that for a while they made pilgrimages to his cell, hired him the same lawyer that the guy who killed Rabin used, and accused us of anti-Semitism for keeping him in jail.
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Jul 29, 2015 13:11
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