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Vladimir Putin posted:Can you reconcile this view with the Edward Snowden case? Whistleblowing is sorta the same thing, but your own government wants you dead. Also death to spies. And anyone else deserving of the death penalty.
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Aug 3, 2015 18:17
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Vladimir Putin posted:Can you reconcile this view with the Edward Snowden case? What's to reconcile? He says specifically: quote:except in the case that he released it to the public on the basis that it was in the public interest.
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Aug 3, 2015 18:18
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Vladimir Putin posted:Can you reconcile this view with the Edward Snowden case? Not terribly familiar with Snowden but he leaked information about the NSA's monitoring of US citizen's communication as I recall? And he leaked it to the public on (presumably) the basis that it was in the public interest? While it is certainly breaking the law, I would suggest that it would be a case where judicial discretion should be applied and his sentence reduced or potentially waived in light of the manifestly public-serving nature of his actions. He stood to gain rather less from it than society at large. It does not appear to be an action intent on damaging society for the betterment of the individual, rather it appears to be more the other way around, thus making it far less morally reprehensible.
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Aug 3, 2015 18:26
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CSPAN Caller posted:That's just one end of the reward/punishment spectrum and it ignores the perceived likelihood of that consequence happening. You could get away with selling secrets and live like a king in Israel. You could get caught, get a pretty light sentence, and move to Israel to live off a generous stipend. Worst case, you could get caught, spend decades in jail like Pollard, while your family prospers in Israel and you're treated by the Israeli right as a hero. I just don't think a death sentence fixes these things. Pressuring Israel to not celebrate loving over a close friend would do more than killing some old, sickly dude.
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Aug 3, 2015 18:33
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Zanzibar Ham posted:But you will commit treason since you'll "only" end up in prison for 30 years? That's a bit more than I've been alive. Well I'd definitely try to avoid it but at least I wont be dead if I get caught.
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Aug 3, 2015 19:05
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drilldo squirt posted:Well I'd definitely try to avoid it but at least I wont be dead if I get caught. Cool, too bad this says nothing because you could say that about any crime. 'gee, if jaywalking carried a death sentence I'd sure do it less often!'
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Aug 3, 2015 19:09
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Redgrendel2001 posted:He was a pretty bad dude and an unrepentant, pathological liar. IIRC the FBI interviewed hundreds of people from throughout his life and not a single one could recall him mentioning Israel, Judaism, etc. Also, the SIGINT stuff he sold wasn't just a bunch of random info, it was incredibly dangerous material. From the Kaplan's article... I think you're remembering that wrong, because the Hersh piece says he went on a trip to Israel when he was younger and then bragged to everyone about how he was a secret Mossad agent. Not that his motivations were the same as Snowden or Manning, but people made the same harming national security argument for them, and it's clear they did not. All three harmed the self-perpetuating national security industrial complex state, but didn't actually make Americans less safe in any way whatsoever.
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Aug 4, 2015 04:14
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Kim Jong Il posted:I think you're remembering that wrong, because the Hersh piece says he went on a trip to Israel when he was younger and then bragged to everyone about how he was a secret Mossad agent. You're absolutely correct. I couldn't find the article that I was hazily remembering so I went to the NSA damage assesment PDF and it's right at the beginning. My bad. quote:For example, although Pollard earned a 3.5 grade point average as a
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Aug 4, 2015 05:33
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Zanzibar Ham posted:Cool, too bad this says nothing because you could say that about any crime. 'gee, if jaywalking carried a death sentence I'd sure do it less often!' People will do things less if their is a chance that they will be murdered if they are caught, jaywalking is an example of this. Edit: Treason is another example. drilldo squirt fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Aug 4, 2015 |
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Aug 4, 2015 05:41
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Redgrendel2001 posted:You're absolutely correct. I couldn't find the article that I was hazily remembering so I went to the NSA damage assesment PDF and it's right at the beginning. My bad. How did none of this throw up a red flag that maybe he shouldn't be given any kind of security clearance
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Aug 4, 2015 06:07
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drilldo squirt posted:People will do things less if their is a chance that they will be murdered if they are caught, jaywalking is an example of this. At least you admit it would be murder.
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Aug 4, 2015 06:28
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Zanzibar Ham posted:At least you admit it would be murder. If you agree that execution is more effective than 30 years in prison in keeping people from committing treason, what are you arguing?
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Aug 4, 2015 06:33
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drilldo squirt posted:If you agree that execution is more effective than 30 years in prison in keeping people from committing treason, what are you arguing? That execution is wrong. e: also I'm not entirely sure it would deter better than a 30 year sentence, as most people who commit treason don't think they'll be caught
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Aug 4, 2015 06:43
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quote:US set to free Israel spy Jonathan Pollard http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34876060
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Nov 20, 2015 15:54
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However, he is being prevented from going to Israel  But the Israeli Government has already said they will get him funds and a house 
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Nov 20, 2015 15:55
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He's served his time and I wish him well in the future 
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Nov 20, 2015 16:10
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gently caress this guy with a pineapple.
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Nov 21, 2015 02:45
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I'd like to see people spinning his release as a victory, in spite of him spending every day of his sentence.
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Nov 21, 2015 17:56
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Before he took money from Israel, Pollard evidently hawked the classified info to China and Pakistan and possibly others. There were no buyers other than Israel, as far as we know. Every country that rebuffed him learned something anyway. The information he was selling could be bought, perhaps through other compromised US personnel, and perhaps for less money. Arguably, Snowden and Manning acted out of conscience. Pollard, a promiscuous information salesman, cannot make this claim.
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Nov 21, 2015 18:41
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He's a goddamn hero is what he is. :911butIsraelw/cryingBibi:
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Nov 21, 2015 19:02
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What I want to know is what else is the Dry Bones guy going to make comics about when he can't think of a new way to say "kill all Arabs".
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Nov 21, 2015 19:32
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Who What Now posted:What I want to know is what else is the Dry Bones guy going to make comics about when he can't think of a new way to say "kill all Arabs". He would probably advance to political violence and restart that war? It's doubtful it could ever end any other way.
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Nov 21, 2015 19:48
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It ain't over yet: Pollard's lawyers say they'll appeal 'unreasonable, unlawful' parole terms. Features a cameo by D&D's favorite lawyer and law professor.
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Nov 21, 2015 20:06
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 That anybody in those comments demand we stop spying on Israel. loving keep this guy locked in a house.
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Nov 21, 2015 20:08
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Who What Now posted:What I want to know is what else is the Dry Bones guy going to make comics about when he can't think of a new way to say "kill all Arabs". That point will come two or three hours after the heat death of the universe, so I don't think Kirschen's got anything to worry about.
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Nov 21, 2015 21:26
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Who do we compare Pollard to in pop culture so people born in the after 1985 can understand this situation? Burke from Aliens? Huey from Metal Gear?
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Nov 22, 2015 14:25
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Zayn Malik from one direction?
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Nov 22, 2015 14:33
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George R. R. Martin.
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Nov 22, 2015 19:10
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I say let him go to Israel, maybe a rocket will land on his house.
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Nov 24, 2015 21:31
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Casimir Radon posted:I say let him go to Israel, maybe a rocket will land on his house. Probably not, US funded Iron Dome and all. Maybe he can shoot a Palestinian.
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Nov 24, 2015 21:33
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CommieGIR posted:Probably not, US funded Iron Dome and all. Maybe he can shoot a Palestinian. That or the condition can be that he has to live in Gaza.
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Nov 24, 2015 21:46
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bitey posted:Before he took money from Israel, Pollard evidently hawked the classified info to China and Pakistan and possibly others. There were no buyers other than Israel, as far as we know. Hell, why isnt Mordechai Vanunu brought up more often?
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Nov 24, 2015 21:59
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Casimir Radon posted:I say let him go to Israel, maybe a rocket will land on his house. There seems to be a lot of confusion about being paroled vs pardoned. If he's been paroled then he can't leave the country lawfully. See for instance the end of Shawshank redemption.
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Nov 25, 2015 03:00
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There's no confusion, he's on parole and can't travel, use a computer, or give interviews. A pardon would signify he is forgiven. That's not the case.
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Nov 25, 2015 06:39
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54.4 crowns posted:Hell, why isnt Mordechai Vanunu brought up more often? Pretty soon Pollard is gonna be freer than Vanunu which is nuts (actually he really already is come to think of it).
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Dec 5, 2015 09:34
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Skeesix posted:There seems to be a lot of confusion about being paroled vs pardoned. If he's been paroled then he can't leave the country lawfully. See for instance the end of Shawshank redemption. This is not true, when you are on parole you are allowed to travel assuming your PO knows exactly when and where you are going and approves it ahead of time.
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Dec 5, 2015 14:00
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