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I was talking to my GF about Pollard the other day (she's from a very Orthodox Israeli family) and found out that she used to get together with her friends in grade school and call the White House to ask for Jon Pollard's release. When we talked about it, she was unaware of all the relevant facts like : -He was selling the secrets for money, not to help Israel -He tried to sell stuff to Iran and Pakistan -The Info ended up in the USSR -He has a history of opportunism and drug abuse ("He was no angel") She was a saying most people who are uber-orthodox don't know this stuff and the narrative is rather that he was a committed Jew who volunteered when he saw America wasn't helping Israel enough. IMO, he should be paroled, since he's pretty sickly, but he should have his passport revoked until Mordechai Vanunu gets his back.
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Jul 29, 2015 20:55
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| # ¿ May 15, 2024 10:43 |
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NOT from Israel, that's an important detail.
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Jul 30, 2015 18:18
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I don't think Israel spying in the abstract is particularly heinous. America spies on it's allies and has been spied on by other allies before. It's a natural product of building up these institutions of paranoid data collectors who are trained and funded to break the rules. Big deal. The issue is more that Israel then potentially sold intel to a US enemy and, when caught, tried to play the spy as a martyr. They enabled a dangerous idiot when they should have just turned him over. When you gently caress over a major ally, you should apologize. Instead, Likud and the other nutjobs tried to continue the dumb charade where America is both Israel's greatest friend and also a hotbed of anti-semitism just itching to persecute it's most successful minority. Does anyone know if the Australians who Pollard approached ever tried to turn him in? How do you turn a spy trying to sell you stuff down, but not go back and rat him out? I don't think I've ever heard much on that angle of the story.
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Jul 31, 2015 21:43
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Pollard is also not likely to be a huge danger to anyone. Not because he's repentant or any less of a degenerate shithead, but because he's going to be watched like a hawk. What do you think executing him would have done to change the situation?
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Jul 31, 2015 22:46
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No, but see, he sold state secrets to Israel and, if released, would totally be willing and capable of doing it again. Someone who killed people in a home invasion deserves a better chance because they can repent by not having committed their crimes in aid of racist zionists or whatever.
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Jul 31, 2015 22:58
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What's the difference? He was doing the job of a spy (gathering intelligence) but was a freelancer. He was also a traitor. Apples and oranges, brah.
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Jul 31, 2015 23:07
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His point is that you're overly hungry for blood because it's Israel. Would you support the execution of a guy who sold Intel to the Iranians or the Chinese, or Cuba?
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Aug 3, 2015 13:35
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OK, great. Now, would you support Israel executing a known spy working for Hamas? Even if they had iron-clad evidence? I wouldn't, because I think the death penalty is a faulty practice that's too easily corrupted and applied wrong. Also, I wouldn't kill Pollard. Him rotting in jail doesn't bother me at all. Getting parole isn't bothering me that much, since he served a long sentence and won't be doing it again. The problem in this situation is a bad institution in Israel, not just one rear end in a top hat with money problems. Killing him would do nothing but satisfy blood lust and the need for a martyr.
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Aug 3, 2015 15:54
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CSPAN Caller posted:That's just one end of the reward/punishment spectrum and it ignores the perceived likelihood of that consequence happening. You could get away with selling secrets and live like a king in Israel. You could get caught, get a pretty light sentence, and move to Israel to live off a generous stipend. Worst case, you could get caught, spend decades in jail like Pollard, while your family prospers in Israel and you're treated by the Israeli right as a hero. I just don't think a death sentence fixes these things. Pressuring Israel to not celebrate loving over a close friend would do more than killing some old, sickly dude.
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Aug 3, 2015 18:33
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| # ¿ May 15, 2024 10:43 |
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There's no confusion, he's on parole and can't travel, use a computer, or give interviews. A pardon would signify he is forgiven. That's not the case.
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Nov 25, 2015 06:39
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