Metal Gear Solid V TPP SPOILER/PLOT THREAD - this thread has spoilers

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Metal Gear Solid V TPP SPOILER/PLOT THREAD - this thread has spoilers

Ausmund: Jan 24, 2007; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Finally completed the story

what was the giant flaming whale that ate the helicopter?

# ¿ Sep 28, 2015 04:15

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 13:44

Ausmund: Jan 24, 2007; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Yeah, where does the Venom vs Big Boss stuff come from? The timeline says nothing about it. Venom and BB are a mutialistic relationship, symbolically portrayed by the vocal cord parasites. Venom is a look-a-like keeping the name and the legend alive for appearances while Big Boss does behind the scene poo poo. That's it.

# ¿ Oct 25, 2015 21:23

Ausmund: Jan 24, 2007; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Here's a really good interpretation of the ending from gamefaqs:

gamefaqs user posted:

I think many people have missed the point of the Big Boss twist. It's certainly a condescending betrayal, but there's a deeper meaning here. It's not about how awesome it is that you are Big Boss. Rather, it's about how horrible it is.

You, Venom Snake, have been betrayed by the person you admired most. Big Boss stole everything from you. Your country, your family, your face, and your identity. Maybe even your race and language; I'm Caucasian and a native English-speaker, but you might not be. Yet, whoever you are, wherever you came from... none of that matters. You're Big Boss now.

"His country, his family, his face, his identity, everything was stolen from him."
- Ocelot on Skull Face

"Race, tribal affiliations, national borders, even our faces will be irrelevant."
- Zero

You, the medic, have been destroyed. Erased from existence. Lost to history. Just like The Boss. Big Boss has committed perhaps his greatest sin: He used his most loyal soldier as a pawn, and erased everything that he was. Big Boss is a hypocritical warmonger. He doesn't believe in peace. He doesn't really value every soldier under his command. He's not a hero. He's a tyrant.

And that's what Venom Snake sees in the mirror. At first, he's honored to be Big Boss's most loyal soldier. He even smirks when he discovers it. But a decade later, on just another day in a war without end, he looks in the mirror, and finally understands what it really means to be Big Boss: He's a demon. A monster. Thus, Venom Snake's true phantom pain isn't his missing arm or his lust for revenge. Rather, it's the loss of his identity, the essence of his personhood.

"Now do you remember who you are, what you were meant to do? I cheated death thanks to you. And thanks to you I've left my mark. You have too. You've written your own history. You're your own man. I'm Big Boss, and you are too. No, he's the two of us together. Where we are today, we built it. This story, this 'legend', it's ours. We can change the world, and with it, the future. I am you and you are me. Carry that with you wherever you go. Thank you, my friend. From here on out, you're Big Boss."
- Big Boss, MGSV

Big Boss wants Venom Snake to help him change the world by contributing to the "legend of Big Boss". This is the legend, by the way, that Zero wanted to exploit. Big Boss hated the idea when Zero proposed it, but apparently changed his mind when he realized he could use it to create Outer Heaven. And MGS2 has some relevance here, in the form of Raiden:

"You can find your own name. And your own future. And whatever you choose will be you. I know you didn't have much in terms of choices this time. But everything you felt, thought about during this mission, is yours. And what you decide to do with them is your choice... A clean slate. A new name, new memories. Choose your own legacy. It's for you to decide. It's up to you."
- Solid Snake to Raiden

Big Boss thinks it's great that Venom Snake has lost his identity. But Solid Snake thinks that Raiden should be free to create his own identity and legacy. And that whole "changing the world" thing? Big Boss understands his arrogance at the very end of MGS4:

"Boss.. You were right. It's not about changing the world. It's about doing our best to leave the world the way it is. It's about respecting the will of others, and believing in your own."
- Big Boss, MGS4

# ¿ Nov 1, 2015 21:10

Ausmund: Jan 24, 2007; THUNDERDOME LOSER

CharlieWhiskey posted:

Medic's loss of identity isn't so bad. He was a merc and professional soldier, so he knew that he might lose his life at any time. If he had any family, or connections outside of MSF, he had to always be at peace with never seeing them again. And his primary motivation for being in MSF was working for Big Boss and earning money, presumably in that order. So to realize you were given the authority and identity of Big Boss and access to all of his assets would actually be Medic's dream come true. The grin at the end was that of a guy who was living the dream.

Discovering the man you devoted your life too is a coward and used you as a decoy dummy to save his rear end would make it all the worse for me. Seeing Venom abandoned and unconscious in the crashed van during the reveal like some nobody was despicable to me. This game definitely gave me a very different view of Big Boss, where as before I thought, "yeah, I know he becomes an antagonist at some point, but man he's sympathetic and honorable as hell."

And I really love how this series never ceases to challenge my own perspective.

# ¿ Nov 2, 2015 01:58

Ausmund: Jan 24, 2007; THUNDERDOME LOSER

You can't assume Kaz knew the exact extent of all the injured msf soliders along with him in that room, especially the nameless solider 2 beds over. He wasn't a doctor treating them, he's not going to have a detailed analysis. And since they were all in an explosion, collided with another helicopter, and crashed into the ocean, they probably all suffered from shrapnel. A vauge comment from a doctor isn't going to mean anything in a hectic moment like that, and won't have any longevity. He's also always on the field, and has probably seen countless injuries and wounds, more than he can keep track of. And it had been 9 years.

It's really not a plothole.

# ¿ Nov 4, 2015 01:26

Ausmund: Jan 24, 2007; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Nakar posted:

Kaz loving sees the guy two beds over, who was in the helicopter with them and presumably the only other survivor, asks "What about him?" and gets told the guy took shrapnel to the head. He also is right next to Big Boss and can see pretty clearly that Big Boss does not have shrapnel in his head. Nine years later Big Boss has shrapnel in his head.

But yeah Kaz just forgot, I mean who would remember inconsequential little things like "did Snake get a big-rear end forehead horn in the crash nine years ago."

Besides "demon snake" it isn't that big and can easily be obscured by his hair, eye batch band, all the blood on his face, and possible flesh wounds. It's also on the right corner of his forehead while Miller was in the bed to Snake's left(which I'm sure was intentional). Snake was also surrounded by doctor's trying to resuscitate him and Kaz was only peering between their bodies and getting glimpses. There is no way he had a clear reliable look at the extent of Snake's injuries.

# ¿ Nov 4, 2015 17:17

Ausmund: Jan 24, 2007; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Subyng posted:

Finally made it through this thread and I'll just say that not only are people unable to infer anything that isn't directly spelled out to them, even when it is spelled out for them they still can't process it.

"This character's motivations make no sense even though they explicitly explained it to me and it actually does make sense but I'm a moron" -goons

It's not just goons. Video game players don't care about innovation or creativity. They only want imitations and instant gratification. Video games will never be art because any time a developer takes a creative risk challenging preconceived notions there's a huge backlash. People just wanted this game to be a simple good guys vs the bad guy revenge story where the good guys become the villains at the end AND IT WILL BE SO EPIC OMFG. It's really sad.

# ¿ Feb 29, 2016 00:56

Ausmund: Jan 24, 2007; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Heavy Metal posted:

Is there a huge backlash? Aren't there complaints for the story of every MGS game, maybe MGS3 less than the others? I dig all of them, and I love the story of MGSV, as minimalist as it may be in comparison to the style of the others.

On the road to the release plenty of people were hyped to see Big Boss become the villain, not everybody is looking for simple good vs evil. As for what we got, it was not what I was expecting, but I love it. The ending cutscene in particular I find very cool.

That said, you are practically playing a saint in much of this game, saving kids and whatnot. I'm sure game stories could get a lot darker than this one.

I've read nothing but complaining.

Also I'm sure the reason the cutscenes are so sparse is they had to cut and censor a lot of content because it was too controversial.

What MGS fans don't understand is the series doesn't have heroes or villains. Solid says this over and over throughout the series, but nobody pays attention. Only different perspectives. This game is about the futility of war, people think they're doing what's best for soldiers and Big Boss's dream, but they're really just trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. They fight to live in the moment, they have no tomorrow. Yet they fight for the future. It intentionally doesn't make sense and subtly demonstrates how mad all the characters are. But on the surface they seem like, thoughtful, rational, professional people. This is why Huey is exiled, hes the only one that sees through this, so he's "not one of us". Unfortunately these concepts fly over peoples heads, and its not what they want to hear, so they make up some stupid theroy how Venom and Naked are secretly at war with each other or something.

# ¿ Feb 29, 2016 01:11

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 13:44

Ausmund: Jan 24, 2007; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Heavy Metal posted:

The series has heroes. You can have shades of gray and show that both sides in war are wrong, and that the hero is fighting for a cause that may not be completely right etc. And it can raise questions, but I don't think I really need to explain why we'd find courage, heroism, inspiring stuff etc in these characters in the stories.

And it can even be the ol' "kinda nice bad guy" versus "really really bad guy" story. Even if there's crazy corruption on both sides, it's generally a good thing saving a lot of lives etc when the "good guy" role in these stories wins the day. Even if there's still more to ponder.

It's not a morality issue. Morality is relative, like the times. What this series tries to demonstrate is that war is objectively meaningless.

Like what is the point of Diamond Dogs and Outer Heaven? It's lead by a guy that too afraid to let go and set aside his gun. He perpetuates an endless cycle with no ultimate goal. Whether he's nice or not doesn't matter.

# ¿ Feb 29, 2016 01:28

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