Metal Gear Solid V TPP SPOILER/PLOT THREAD - this thread has spoilers

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Metal Gear Solid V TPP SPOILER/PLOT THREAD - this thread has spoilers

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blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

John Luebke posted:

This is from this year's E3 trailer:

I thought that effect went away towards the end of the game as Snake gets used to his eyesight? Shouldn't that effect be gone at this time?

# ¿ Aug 23, 2015 15:35

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 10:40

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

Yeah, the twist could be spotted from a mile away, which is fine. But its kind of a tortuous retcon. So if Zero is comatose what is the deal with the rest of the patriots? Did they just decide to take over? Were the AIs in effect by this point?

blackguy32 fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Aug 25, 2015

# ¿ Aug 25, 2015 20:53

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

RatHat posted:

Some people in the Neogaf thread are very angry.

Lol, while I think these events are disappointing, I am not going to be mad about it. But I wonder what happened to the other Patriots? Do they just decide to keep going on despite not knowing/knowing about Zero?

# ¿ Aug 25, 2015 21:43

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

CrashCat posted:

What other Patriots?

Para-Medic and Sigint.

# ¿ Aug 25, 2015 21:49

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

Funky Valentine posted:

Wasn't MGS3's story really lovely on paper when it first got leaked until people actually played it?

No, MGS3's story still is pretty lovely. But I mean, most people play Metal Gear for the gameplay, hopefully.

# ¿ Aug 25, 2015 21:58

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

Nail Rat posted:

I haven't played Portable Ops in a long time, but I remember something along those lines being a retcon from Portable Ops. I wasn't aware it was referenced again later.

Either way, still dumb.

Yeah, Poops puts forth the notion that Snake Eater was planned from the very beginning. Peace Walker confirms it.

Also the body double seems pretty much confirmed considering that crazy advertisement poo poo that Kojima was pushing with that doctor and transferring heads or some poo poo.

# ¿ Aug 25, 2015 22:50

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

RatHat posted:

How exactly did he sabotage it? I don't remember that part about Peace Walker. Was it in a tape?

https://youtu.be/-NLlrFV5iOE?t=12m57s

# ¿ Aug 25, 2015 22:55

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

Heavy Metal posted:

It goes to show how much Hideo captures people's imaginations, how somebody could think that was an MGS ad. Though it is fun that his face is used in MGS5, whether he endorsed it or not.

It sure as hell isn't medical science.

# ¿ Aug 25, 2015 23:29

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

Heavy Metal posted:

Ok, but... that doesn't make it an MGS ad. Do you really think that guy is a performance art character written by Hideo Kojima?

Just because someone is a legit doctor doesn't mean they can't do advertisements.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5cpFXf1IEg

So now that we have established that it wasn't medical science, it most likely is a publicity stunt. Also considering the information coming out about the game and plot, it makes a lot more sense as a publicity stunt.

blackguy32 fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Aug 26, 2015

# ¿ Aug 26, 2015 02:28

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

Mr. Fortitude posted:

I'm really, really, really glad you said that. I've voiced the same issues you have in the Steam Thread and I got shot down for wanting to hate the game and I'm just dumb or something when I'm not, I do like the game a lot, I just don't think it's GOTY material. But it's a disappointing game and I kind of expected more than what we got and the twist feels kind of hollow when neither Big Boss nor Venom fall truly villainous. The stuff on the Collectors Edition blu-ray which I'm told by everyone is not cut content but rather unused concepts so I'm an idiot for expecting it to be in the game, would have done that nicely I think and given the twist the real emotional gutpunch it needed.

So I'm glad it's not just me who feels this way, especially since for the supposedly final Metal Gear Solid game by Kojima before Konami do a reboot or something, it didn't really deliver what the trailers promised. But it's still a fun game.

Although to answer your questions about who is running The Patriots once Zero is a vegetable, there's a tape where he mentions he left everything to Sigint and he built the AIs alongside the work Strangelove already did. So blame Ocelot for making the AIs the defacto leader of The Patriots instead of being subservient to Sigint when he killed him during Shadow Moses I guess.

I'm actually surprised that I'm not playing it as much as I thought I would. I am kind of annoyed at how much of a chore it can be to get around. And some things just feel pointless. What's the point of limiting suppressors when you can just call for more anyways.

I do think big boss is pretty drat evil for manipulating people like that.

# ¿ Sep 4, 2015 02:20

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

I find it kind of funny that this is the thread where people are a lot more critical of the game. I am at the point where the game is pretty fun but at the same time, I am starting to notice a bunch of little flaws that annoy the poo poo out of me.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2015 21:25

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

Panzeh posted:

You in Chapter 2 yet?

The game's big problems don't really crop up until you've completed the actually finished story.

No, but I am kind of dreading it, because I am already pretty intensely critical of the game in quite a few areas.

Mr. Fortitude posted:

In all honesty, this game actually makes me want a new Metal Gear game, but one without Kojima at the helm. I never thought I'd say that a few months ago.

I don't know if this game had feature bloat or what, but how long has this game been in development? I understand the engine and all that, but I really think he could have cut his losses and just dumped the Mother Base mechanic.

I am also sad that everything that looked cool or interesting in the trailers has fell flat for me so far.

blackguy32 fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Sep 6, 2015

# ¿ Sep 6, 2015 21:36

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

CrashCat posted:

You can't really complain about Kojima horseshit without a ton of spoilers. On the other hand if you came into a Kojima game expecting it wouldn't be full of horseshit then lol

Still a really fun game until the gameplay gets abusive but that's also pretty usual.

I was actually expecting the twist to be a bit stronger, and the parasite poo poo makes me roll my eyes out of the back of my head.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2015 21:55

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

cat doter posted:

Metal Gear has always relied on magical macguffins as plot tools, I kinda wish the series would do away with its need to be somewhat plausible, it always just highlights the absurdity of it all. The justification for The End's abilities being those parasites practically ruins him as a character for me. Why can't he just be some weird dude.

My problem is that Kojima really does touch on some very strong points in that language is usually one of the first things to go when one is colonized since it is such an application of power over people. But the way Kojima interpreted that into a game is loving parasites. MGS 2 I think had the strongest theme that tied really well into the gameplay since you come to expect certain things when you hear Campbell on the codec.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2015 21:58

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

Mr. Fortitude posted:

5 years development cycle (started right after Peace Walker finished on the PSP), $80 million budget that doesn't include the development of the FOX Engine itself. Doesn't really feel like it had that much money or development time put in when you play it though, huh?

I disagree. It does feel like they put a bunch of money into it. It's just that many of it is in the wrong areas. There are some aspects of the game that just feel really pointless. Like the whole having to return to base to shower. Hell, just get rid of almost every thing dealing with mother base.

Grizzled Patriarch posted:

Grand Theft Auto V cost 265 million to develop. Now imagine this game with that budget.

TPP had a big budget, but it wasn't the insane amount people are making it out to be. Hell, Max Payne 3 cost $20 million more than TPP to develop. Microsoft sunk $90 million into a Halo MMO that never even got released.

In the spirit of the thread, I think its the matter of spending that much and quite a bit of the game feeling like an unfinished shell. I mean Red Dead Redemption, a game that was plagued with development problems and cost I believe $100 million to develop, actually wrapped itself up well

blackguy32 fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Sep 6, 2015

# ¿ Sep 6, 2015 22:38

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

Mr. Fortitude posted:

True but GTA V had a ton of licensed tracks and other stuff and some of the publicity stunts Kojima pulled during the games production couldn't have been that cheap surely. They did do an excellent job with the trailers and other aspects of marketing the game though.

GTA V also is part of a more popular franchise that made its budget back 3 or 4 times over. $1 billion in revenue is a shitload of money, especially since it made that in 3 days.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2015 22:45

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

Mr. Fortitude posted:

Wasn't the head transplant stuff a publicity stunt? Like I said, I'd rather not have had licensed music or Keifer Sutherland's voice acting if it meant the game was more fleshed out.

True enough. Though I read Max Payne 3 actually didn't sell too hot given the large budget it had.

Every one is denying that the head transplant stuff is for publicity, but it isn't really medical science either since most people in the field are calling him quite crazy and unethical about the procedure.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2015 22:52

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

cat doter posted:

TPP's systems layer on each other in a really interesting way and it's thematically linked with the story in a lot of cool ways, calling it feature bloat is silly imo. Feature bloat is when a game is when a game is crippled by its need to do too much, MGSV is instead invigorated by it. It's a great loving game, regardless of story missteps.

I think people are more upset that the game had such a lengthy development and the game pretty much takes a dump during the 2nd half.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2015 22:54

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

Full Battle Rattle posted:

Really I wish there was some kind of way to reset the soldiers down to the base levels. Even doing the storage shed things there's still a zillion dudes in riot suits everywhere. And helmets, oh my god helmets. When every little outpost is packed with super difficult dudes it starts to impact how fun the game is, imo.

Things eventually go back down once you don't engage in the activity that brings them out, but apparently if you wear the chicken hat, then it returns back to normal much faster.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2015 22:00

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

Funky Britches posted:

Twin Snakes was not well directed, well acted or well paced.

Neither was the original.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2015 23:01

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

The whole rationalization that people try to come up with for Twin Snakes is hilarious. It's a remake, who gives a poo poo about canon when 98% of the story is the same.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2015 23:05

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

randombattle posted:

And about 90% more awesome.

I won't disagree with you there. I prefer Twin Snakes over the original simply for the quality of life improvements.

# ¿ Sep 8, 2015 01:08

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

Discendo Vox posted:

I'm probably going to try my hand at fanfictioning up an TPP better plot and arc than this, once I actually have time to get the game and play through it. I'm curious to imagine what would've been possible with more narrative restraint.

Things to cut:
Parasites
Language
Psycho Plot Key
Man on Fire

Things to keep:
Phantom ~~Ganon~~ Snake
Most gameplay elements
The Huey dickery
SkullFace
Eli

Things to add:
Committing actual atrocities
Zero
Shrapnel hallucinations
A surprising twist at the end
More Mother Base interactions
Showing the descent
More interiors

The stuff about language is good, the game just handles it kind of dumb. If you want control over a population, then one of the first things you do is make them speak your language.

# ¿ Sep 8, 2015 05:56

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

DaveKap posted:

Hahaha sorry I needed to clarify further. What I mean is, after raiding helmets for example, how long does my enemy go without helmets? I recognize the map icons being red is a display of how short supplies are, I just wonder how long until those icons go back to normal.

The guide says that the effect lasts for 3 missions and the raids won't come back for 5 missions. I don't know if that just includes main missions or if it includes side op missions too.

# ¿ Sep 8, 2015 17:08

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

Buschmaki posted:

The opinions of children should not influence great works.

Yeah, the whole everyone needs to be familiar thing was a pretty lovely thing to include in MGS4.

# ¿ Sep 8, 2015 17:36

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

Buschmaki posted:

I made fun of people posting huge essays on why the story in this game is bad, but I'm doing the same thing but saying it's good. This game has driven me insane.

Its a discussion forum. It is ok to do such things.

# ¿ Sep 8, 2015 23:06

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

Just watch the ending to mgs4. He basically calls everyone he used to hang with idiots and that Snake needed to do what he couldn't, which was stop fighting.

# ¿ Sep 12, 2015 03:14

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

The problem with Big Boss isn't that he is mustache twirling evil. It is that he is so consumed with his war with Cipher that he doesn't really give a poo poo about anything else or who he fucks over. Contrast that with Solid Snake who actually creates a organization titled "Philanthropy" and hunts down Metal Gears in the name of preventing any harm from happening to innocent people. In contrast, you have a guy who see all this poo poo going down due to one of his old friends and his solution is to not take sides and pretty much be a gun for hire.

# ¿ Sep 12, 2015 20:44

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

Not to mention that Big Boss has no problem converting a child refugee like Sniper Wolf into a soldier.

"In the name of vengeance, I sold my body and my soul. Now I am nothing more than a dog."

blackguy32 fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Sep 12, 2015

# ¿ Sep 12, 2015 20:52

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

There is also the fact that Venom Snake is perfectly willing to take in human traffickers. He also has no problems with using torture to get the information he needs. Those aren't the qualities of someone heroic. Ground Zeroes pretty much established how torture is seen as pretty horrific.

# ¿ Sep 13, 2015 07:54

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

I feel like this is a situation similar to mgs2 where people thought that it couldn't possibly be the whole game since we didn't play as Snake and we never got to fully explore the big shell. But in the case of that game, what we saw is what we got.

# ¿ Sep 13, 2015 15:38

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

I like how the parasites are clearly the precursor to FoxDie in that they are designed to target specific languages and by that can be used to target specific ethnic groups and nationalities. Its like a Macro Fox die.

# ¿ Sep 13, 2015 19:58

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

lovely Wizard posted:

It just seems like half of chapter 2 is missing if not more, and the chapter 3 titled card make things even worse. Non-story stuff took a hit too : no motherbase customization beyond set upgrades, motherbase seems dead except for conversations between staff when in demos there was stuff like animals on the main platforms and cyphers flying around, there's no customization for non-playable soldiers like outfits even though you see stuff like a new ocelot squad show up for like two cutscenes in the background (with no context), and FOB's not being customizable at all outside of types of weapon/armor and just hitting max out this poo poo is sort of a shame too. Hating the game is a bit strong, but it's probably just coming off of the main story's ending and realizing "that's it? this feels like half a game" rather than "this game is garbage it should have been cancelled".

This is where I am at. poo poo like having to go back to Mother Base every once in a while just to shower just seems so unnecessary and time consuming. Mother base as a whole just feels pointless.

That being said, I am surprised how much I like Code Talker's character. I just know when I hear a cassette tape by him, that it will be a good one.

# ¿ Sep 13, 2015 23:00

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

Panzeh posted:

I wish there was more missions like the one with Mosquito(Mosquito's mission is actually one of the better story bits), but I think they thought the FOB gameplay would be enough. Mother base has a really interesting layout compared to the other areas and it would've been cool to do more tactical espionage there.

Definitely, as it stands, it just seems so half baked. Although I think the most disappointing thing I have with the game is that we were pretty much shown all of the cutscenes in the trailers leading up to the game, just without the context. Except, the context wasn't nearly as cool as I was building it up in my head, but that is my fault.

# ¿ Sep 13, 2015 23:04

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

Kojima says that the theme of the game is the cycle of revenge and phantom pain, which is why skull face dies at the end of chapter 1 and you're left longing for a proper villain.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2015 04:48

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

swamp waste posted:

I thought the game & story were good, and i'd encourage people not to ignore the experiences they're having in favor of their expectations. The way it climaxes 2/3 of the way through and then gradually trails off is kind of unusual but I guess that's because the "resolution" came out 25 years ago on some weird japanese home computer.

As lovely as it may sound, I think that is what Kojima intended.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2015 04:54

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

CJacobs posted:

Eli and the children stealing Sahelanthroups is never mentioned again, a single time, in any MGS game that chronologically came out after this one (and it's never brought up in this game again either) so no that's horseshit. The game's plot, in a literal sense, is not resolved. Outside of themes or ideas, the story has no ending.

It's the phantom pain. It just won't stop hurting.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2015 04:58

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

RZApublican posted:

In MGS4, Ocelot ends up dead of a nanomachine heart attack atop a giant, metallic shrine to his own ego. He does succeed in the sense that he mostly gets what he wants in the end, though

But he fails in that Big Boss called them all fools.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2015 15:31

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

CJacobs posted:

Good game design > good narrative, in all cases

If the game does things that are designed not to be fun to play, it doesn't matter if the story is good because I'm not going to play it

edit: I should clarify though that losing Quiet is not as big of a split because you don't play AS Quiet, she just helps you out; but I wasn't attached to her. I was attached to how she helped me. Taking that away from me because they just unceremoniously felt like it is both lovely writing AND game design.

You must have been pissed when Alys dies in Phantasy Star 4.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2015 15:46

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 10:40

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

Raxivace posted:

I like MGS1 and especially MGS2's stories the most. MGS3 is fine though its narrative is harmed by not trying to do anything especially ambitious for most of the game. PO is alright, didn't care much for the stories in MGS4, PW, or MGRR, and I liked MGSV's story quite a bit personally.

I actually like Portable Ops's story more than most as it establishes a lot of the themes that the series begins to pick up on.

Nail Rat posted:

There's a fat guy who shoots bees at you and an insane cosmonaut who turns into a giant flaming skull. There's plenty of craziness to balance out the straightforwardness.

MGS3 owns and anyone who doesn't count it as their favorite is wrong.

Well I guess I am wrong then, because I felt that the game played worse than other stealth games, even when it was first released.

blackguy32 fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Sep 16, 2015

# ¿ Sep 16, 2015 20:00

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Metal Gear Solid V TPP SPOILER/PLOT THREAD - this thread has spoilers

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