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Zeno-25 posted:Also TNG sucks until season 3-4, or whenever after the writers' strike was resolved and the Borg show up. It's basically a 90s version of TOS until then Ive kind of said this before myself but currently rewatching, I feel like season 1 is the only really bad one, and it's much worse than most of TOS is. Season 2 has some misses, and a clip show episode for no reason, but it's a lot closer to the standard of the rest of the show. Characters feel much more familiar than in season 1, and numerous scenes are devoted to their natural lives and interactions, as opposed to season 1's gang of interchangeable space saints running headlong from plot point to plot point. Guinan and Pulaski show up, O'Brien begins to get dialogue, Wesley becomes less freshfaced little bitch. Where Silence Has Lease, A Matter of Honor, Measure of a Man, Contagion, Q Who are all really good episodes. Season 3 has loads of good episodes and also Yesterday's Enterprise, which is probably a top-fiver in the entire show. e: also season 2 is when they stop letting the blind guy fly the ship, which is probably a good metaphor for something skasion fucked around with this message at 12:43 on Aug 25, 2015 |
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Aug 25, 2015 12:38
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Rutibex posted:first season rocks, you have no idea what your talking about. the music is like 100x more interesting Ron Jones didn't get fired until like season four
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Aug 25, 2015 17:03
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Starfleet doesn't have ground troops. It is a star fleet. the official fiction is that it is not even a military organization, but is for science, diplomacy and exploration. They're not exactly the loving space marines and the point is made surprisingly early and often in TNG and DS9 that they're really unprepared for a shooting war with other galactic empires. Both series take an oddly hawkish attitude to the federation given the supposedly lovey dovey utopian universe of Trek, the writers are repeatedly beating the drum for the fleet to nut up and get some big guns even as a lot of the characters insist that they didn't sign up to fight wars. From a dramatic point of view this makes sense as everyone loves the escalating drama of a war story, and it can be seen as a sort of unintentional geopolitical allegory for the waning of the optimism and end-of-history thinking that accompanied the end of the Cold War.
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Aug 26, 2015 17:48
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shadow puppet of a posted:The Shelliak had none of their poo poo and told them to GFTO. Darmok-ians had their way with them and would only deal on their terms. The Borg beat them from pillar to post. The Romulans use the Feds line in the sand stances against them all the time. Also the Klingons joined the federation and then just straight up walked out and declared revanchist war on it, and would have gotten away with it if not for the Dominion War forcing them together again. The bit where a Starfleet officer publicly assassinated the Klingon chancellor and replaced him with a pro-Starfleet military leader probably helped too.
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Aug 26, 2015 21:51
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TEAYCHES posted:imo the only way you could have both a realistic and dramatic scifi series now would be to basically copy dune and make it so its illegal to make AI and most people are religious fanatics and shields cause nuclear explosions so everyone still uses guns and melee weapons, but there could still be weird hosed up genetic engineering Or just...make Dune
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Aug 31, 2015 12:42
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Entropic posted:There was already a Dune miniseries and it was not terrible. It was pretty bland but did a decent job of getting the whole plot on screen on a reasonable budget. Children of Dune took this to theretofore-unknown frontiers of blandness which is pretty remarkable for an adaptation of a novel which culminates with its protagonist covering himself in an irremovable armor of sentient worms. It's really unambitious and disappointing after watching something as batshit as Lynch's Dune, which casts whole swathes of plot by the wayside together with any desire to actually make sense but really successfully evokes the bizarre religious and political atmosphere which the whole story is about. The most you can say for the miniseries is that it wasn't butchered by executive meddling. A better one could definitely be done but I have to assume it won't be. Dune's themes would be really uncomfortable for a TV audience these days.
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Aug 31, 2015 16:22
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The Bible posted:I find it more interesting that from a single book, they were somehow able to reproduce the English language in its entirety. Gangster planet works because it takes itself exactly as seriously as the concept deserves and has some really great performances. Omega Glory doesn't work as a drama or as science fiction, but you can sure remember it and it's because it dispenses with all the pussyfooting around with this Federation and prime directive and proton photon inverse tachyon deflector beam warp converters bullshit and says what Star Trek is actually about, which is "America is the best country. gently caress you. USA USA USA." Roddenberry was really proud of it and you can see why, looking at things from his coked up point of view. Planet Rome is mostly pretty bad but the gladiatorial fight scene is hilarious. The Nazi planet has some zingers but mostly sucks. Cowboy planet sucks and doesn't engage with its setting at all really, it feels like a random script they just decided to shoot on the old west soundstage for shits. Worst episode in TOS has to be The Alternative Factor, which is skullfuckingly boring, terribly written, terribly acted, and makes no sense at all into the bargain.
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Sep 1, 2015 03:49
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TOS is the best Trek show because it's the shortest
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Sep 1, 2015 13:35
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Cry Havoc posted:how would kirk handle q Squire of Gothos E: or like half the other episodes in season 1. It's not like TNG invented capricious god like energy beings skasion fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Sep 1, 2015 |
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Sep 1, 2015 17:25
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shadow puppet of a posted:It is the official position of this thread that these two should have gotten together. Ro should have been a main character
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Sep 1, 2015 22:33
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Ambrose Burnside posted:that just means star trek is more likely to die permanently as a franchise, b/c the whole steadily rising blockbuster costs/increasingly intense risk aversion thing hollywood's grappling with is GREAT for people who love iron man enoguh to see 6 iron mans and not much else Nothing in show business dies permanently until the last dollar has been squeezed from it. Just look at Shatner
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Sep 2, 2015 14:51
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Tujague posted:Yes, the double-fisted Donkey Kong. As long as your form is flawless and the plot is on your side, you can knock just about anyone the gently caress out: fully armed Klingon warriors, 350 pound space lizard captains, even Kira got it in the shoulder blade once and hit the deck like a clumsy kid's ice cream cone. Brutal. Troi gets possessed by an alien and fucks Worf's poo poo up in the episode where they can't get any sleep and all go insane
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Sep 18, 2015 22:40
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Kitchner posted:I'm really surprised they didn't come across more poo poo like this during Star Trek: You don't even need a nuke or any kind of explosive payload, just slap an antimatter engine on an asteroid and slam it into your opponent's homeworld at warp 9 and it'll punch right through the planet. Or run the Enterprise into it, which should amount to pretty much the same thing
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Sep 20, 2015 23:23
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) and so is the Cardassian version of this, but these types of things seem like the perfect weapon. Put a warp drive in what is essentially a nuke and just have it travel at maximum warp at the enemy broadcasting the identity signal of a freighter or something.
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Crashbee posted:None of those cases involve the Jem Hadar rebelling against the Dominion though, they're still operating within spec as obedient soldier-slaves. If anything those stories are showing the practical limits of the genetic super soldier trope - the Jem Hadar have enough free will to operate autonomously for years on end, but they're also clearly aware that their loyalty is conditioned rather than earned, even if they're unable to do anything about it. How much genuine loyalty would you be able to expect from someone who knows they're programmed to die for you? There's an episode where a bunch of Jem-hadar find an Iconian gateway and decide to use it to take down the Dominion, and Sisko has to team up with Weyoun to stop them. Sisko asks Weyoun why the Founders don't just turn the Jem-hadar off and he hems and haws about it, but pretty much winds up admitting that there's no innate quality of loyalty to the Jem-hadar and the Founders' hold on their soldiers has a lot more to do with propaganda than reality. It's just a lifetime of drugs, violence, and religion conditioning them to be loyal. e: though I guess Weyoun could have been bullshitting, because the story never takes a look at why the Jem-hadar actually rebelled apart from as an excuse to get Sisko and the crew to hang out with a bunch of Jem-hadar friendlies for an hour. skasion fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Sep 22, 2015 |
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Sep 22, 2015 01:08
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Tujague posted:Actually now that I think about it, that episode was dildos. Voyager runs into Unheard Of Civilization That Can Make Spaceships Very Close To Voyager # 3704, which appears to be made up of plot-driving contrivances (People forget them! Computers can't scan them! They can't talk about it!), then it turns out that two of these people recently snuck onboard Voyager to clown around in poorly-lit flashbacks. This reminds me of the episode where Kirk gets kidnapped by weirdo lady from the planet where they can whip up a nearly perfect replica of the Enterprise overnight, but can't invent condoms to solve their Malthusian catastrophe
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Sep 27, 2015 00:19
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My Q-Face posted:I know Takei is pretty popular these days, but when was Sulu ever involved in the main plot as main character? He steals the show in Naked Time and he's the one who's gonna die if they can't fix the transporter in Enemy Within. His turn in Mirror Mirror is pretty good as well. Can't recall that he ever did any serious romantic lead stuff though, this was the 60s.
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Sep 27, 2015 14:04
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P-Mack posted:Anyone else think Cardassian ladies are sexxay? The one that wanted O'Brien's miles was smokin'
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Sep 29, 2015 03:07
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Tujague posted:Hey, guy who wrote the best Trek series, we need some help, can you come in and talk it over with us? Tbf "the show is bad! Uhhhhhh...big rear end titties" had worked before
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Oct 3, 2015 00:56
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eSports Chaebol posted:Hasn't he been in like 3 fan projects? Does he just have nothing to do? He's just loving nuts. Check out the episode of TAS he wrote sometime.
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Oct 7, 2015 03:32
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TMP has the best visuals of any Trek movie, to the exclusion of pretty much everything else
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Oct 11, 2015 13:41
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:if they had cars i bet they'd have "wolf 359 was an inside job" bumper stickers You could see their point though, given that the enemy at Wolf 359 was led by a Starfleet captain wholeheartedly using his knowledge of the federation to serve the military interests of its enemies and after the whole mess was over Starfleet Command just gives him his old job back like he wasn't complicit in the murder of thousands of officers and civilians lmao
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Oct 13, 2015 15:46
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I can see why Mulgrew would have been pissed. She was the female lead of the show, that's not terribly common type of role for a 40+ actress and by all accounts she was really jazzed about the opportunity to play a trek captain. Then the show is poo poo, the production is lifeless, the writing is godawful, the ratings drop, and the next thing you know they're refocusing the show around a big titted blonde ten years younger than you. It's still totally unprofessional behavior on her part but whatever, when you look at how Beltran behaved and got away with it I'm not surprised the rest of the cast just behaved like a bunch of fuckheads.
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Oct 25, 2015 03:16
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Nurge posted:
This, but to be fair TAS owns and everyone should see it
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Oct 27, 2015 20:38
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Howard Beale posted:Saavik was also supposed to be part Vulcan and part Romulan (which was supposed to explain why she cried during Spock's funeral, among other things) and in the film novelizations, she eventually shacked up with David Marcus in The Search for Spock. Also the part of Valeris from Undiscovered Country was originally written as Saavik
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Oct 29, 2015 04:20
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It is surprising from a modern tv point of view that the question of whether Bajor winds up joining the Federation is never answered directly. I wonder if they just forgot or if they felt it would be at odds with the melancholy tone of the later seasons to have a celebratory end to Sisko's mission, but I do think that the question is pretty much academic by the end of the show. Bajor has been a major Starfleet base of operations for a couple years, their religious leadership is gone, a Starfleet officer became their messiah -- whether they are technically in the Federation is almost a moot point.
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Oct 30, 2015 00:46
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ThePutty posted:why did they introduce ensign ro in TNG season 5 but hardly ever actually use her? does she do something important later on or something Yes, she gets turned into a kid and learns the true meaning of Christmas by jumping on the bed with Guinan Real talk it's because TNG is allergic to good or interesting characters not named John Luck Pickerd. In a better show Ro would have been flying the ship from the first episode to the last.
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Nov 29, 2015 14:41
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:also, with the exception of DS9, Trek was never really comfortable with having larger casts. i mean on TNG they went from a main cast of nine at the beginning to seven by the end of fourth season, and i don't think they ever considered adding anyone. To be fair, TOS has two and a half main characters, so even that was a pretty big step up
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Nov 30, 2015 01:32
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MikeJF posted:More main than loving Voldemort was. That's like saying the giant flaming vagina was a main character in Lord of the Rings. McCoy is less of a main character than Spock, but definitely still ahead of Scotty and Uhura and way ahead of Chekhov and Sulu in terms of screentime. I love the crazy old coot but he is pretty much an afterthought that Kelley created out of thin air, who got more screentime as the series progressed because he was really good at bouncing off Shatner and Nimoy and most writers saw how their three-way clash of personalities could be fun. He doesn't even get a place in the opening credits at first, he never gets a backstory in the same way Kirk or Spock do, and though he frequently takes a supporting role, episodes are only very rarely centered on his character (the only ones I can think of are The Man Trap and the one where he gets space cancer but gets cured by the asteroid people). I don't want to call him a comic relief character because he has some good dramatic material as well, but his character is generally lighter and more whimsically drawn than those of heroic, moral Kirk and brooding, rational Spock. I don't think he is a main character in the same way as those two.
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Dec 2, 2015 01:01
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BottledBodhisvata posted:I miss those miniskirts. A casualty of the post-Roddenberry era Also TOS and TAS are better shows than the entire rest of Star Trek combined, both in the absolute number of good episodes and the ratio of good episodes to bad
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Dec 6, 2015 05:48
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Temper Trudeau posted:TOS was a fun show. Don't watch it if you drink a lot of cough syrup. It's true, she is smoking hot. Rand also. Wish they hadn't molested her off the show.
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Dec 6, 2015 15:01
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The Bible posted:The Royale was (slightly) better than A Piece of the Action because it was just a looping simulation made by aliens who had no idea how to house a human. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk01eeKMD_I pictured, a sober and reasonable 60s science fiction show far less silly than TOS I mean I love Twilight Zone, but come on now. Sci-fi tends to be pretty ludicrous stuff if you aren't willing to suspend your disbelief and the most successful stuff is often also the most ludicrous, such as Star Wars which is basically a chanbara movie where the swords are lasers and the comic relief peasantry are robots, or Dune where the messiah is a psychedelic space muslim who rides giant worms into battle, or Star Trek where every skirt is mini, every planet is the same set, and a man's brain can be removed and then reinstalled with a remote control being used to move him around in the interim. DS9 gets a lot of respect because it tries to do the same thing TOS did by applying these kind of ridiculous sci-fi trappings to serious real world problems, but it's not like it doesn't have its share of hilariously terrible episodes about loving nothing, like the one where they all get hit by a shrink ray, or the one where O'Brien is visited by a magic leprechaun, or the one where Dax falls in love with the dude from Space Brigadoon. Piece of the Action isn't even one of the worse episodes of TOS, it's funny, quick-paced, and has some good lines. it doesn't make any sense at all obviously but neither does anything else in the entire history of Star Trek
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Dec 7, 2015 15:07
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Chomp8645 posted:I just finished the first season of TOS which I have actually never watched beyond bits and pieces. I'm amazed at how many times they make the same Spock joke in just a single season. I'd say at least six times an episode has ended with him saying "why thank you Captain!" after being compared to a computer, or going "there is no need to insult me!" when they say he's acting human. The writers really love that joke. The first season of TOS is really good because conceptually, they really were going where no man had gone before. They didn't have an especially clear idea of what the show would be about and you get to see it developing itself before your very eyes. Then, in true Star Trek form, they spend half the season fighting the god like energy being of the week and trading racist zingers about Spock while he's standing right there. Some great episodes though. It's all downhill from there really.
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Dec 31, 2015 17:52
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BSG only makes sense as an artifact of pure strain Bush-era mass psychosis. It's a little like Southland Tales in that regard. It's truly bizarre show, probably among the weirdest sci-fi shows ever made, but not in a goofy just-roll-with-it way like Farscape or even in a faintly offputting way like Lexx. It's more in terms of what degree of realism it affects and then demands you put up with, in the midst of a heterogeneous slurry of starship nostalgia, Gen X disappointment, techno-eschatology, ironic military cheerleading, religious bigotry and complete nihilistic despair about Western society. It does come off as DS9 ad absurdum because they have the same basic theme: Star Trek didn't happen and the kids who grew up watching it are really pissed about that. But whereas DS9 comes off as more of a gentle critique of Trek, suggesting that you have to betray Trek's utopia to save it, BSG goes straight for the throat and attacks the five year mission from a pretty much Hobbesian point of view. None of this boldly going bullshit, that won't fly out here in post 9/11 America because everyone is too busy killing each other so that they can survive. I can't say the result is very enjoyable but it's an interesting and unique show. It leapt into the vacuum created by the total irrelevance of Enterprise and never looked back.
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Jan 2, 2016 06:05
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They all follow it because it was less a religion like Christianity that you can choose to follow or not, and more an all encompassing caste based social system that also had a religious component, like Hinduism. And literally the only reason why it isn't still like that is because the spoonheads annihilated their civilization.
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Jan 7, 2016 15:02
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