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Luigi Thirty posted:Yeah, the real poisonous part of this tech bubble is the continued erosion of workers' rights what with the push for a "new" definition of worker because the old ones are dumb and obsolete thanks to the internet. 1099 contracting and holding 4 app jobs at once just means you're a TECH WORKER. This is going to be the majority of jobs in America within 10-15 years. "Employment" will no longer be a thing, everyone will be a 1099 "contractor" (that must do exactly what we tell you in this way looking like this and acting like this or you're If you employ people today, you are a sucker, and businesses are starting to learn this.
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Aug 25, 2015 17:28
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computer parts posted:Nope. Yup.
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Sep 8, 2015 16:19
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triple sulk posted:Yeah man, one day some unicorn startup is gonna rake in millions setting up fly by night contracts with McDonald's and Walmart via smartphone apps, it's gonna be great! I know, the very idea of companies making everybody 1099s to save money is crazy, crazy I tell you Radbot fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Sep 8, 2015 |
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Sep 8, 2015 16:47
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Which courts have "shut down" the Uber 1099-dependent business model? I know there was some non-binding decision in CA awhile back.
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Sep 9, 2015 02:30
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Main Paineframe posted:I can't find anyone besides Uber claiming that a ruling from the California Labor Commission is "non-binding", Yeah, that's what I thought. Pretty interesting that I was told that "multiple courts" had shut down Uber's 1099ing of people when literally no such thing had happened. Anyone care to give me more wrong reasons about why companies won't be making everyone into 1099s?
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Sep 9, 2015 18:30
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Condiv posted:pizza companies for one. or have you never heard of a delivery driver. A lot of delivery drivers are 1099s you condescending prick. BTW FedEx didn't "lose" the 1099 fight per se, all of FedEx Home Delivery/Ground is still 1099'd as far as I know.
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Sep 9, 2015 19:18
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Eh, a real bubble pop will do wonders for affordability if the Dot Com boom and its aftermath are a predictor, especially if there isn't a manic housing bubble directly afterwards as happened historically.
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Sep 9, 2015 19:50
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Thanks for citing a bunch of poo poo and confirming that there is no real legal teeth behind the fight against 1099 misclassification, unless of course you can provide successful cases that the DOL consulted on or any regulatory action they've taken on a wide scale to that effect. "Guidance" doesn't meet this standard BTW.
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Sep 9, 2015 19:57
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Condiv posted:that may be the case for tax purposes, but the US DOL has said that no, set your own hours and provide your own equipment is not enough: http://www.dol.gov/whd/workers/Misclassification/AI-2015_1.htm ...and yet, Uber drives on
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Sep 9, 2015 19:57
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Shifty Pony posted:No, Fedex LOST. Repeatedly. Over and over again in state and federal courts. The most recent case ended in a $233 million settlement because they had lost the appeal of another similar case at the 9th circuit and had no hope of winning. And now FedEx contracts through smaller companies which totally don't abuse 1099 status themselves. Win! Please keep citing court cases at me while I see dozens of (legal, in Denver) 1099 Uber drivers cruise past my office window over the course of a day. If it's illegal it's not being enforced. Have you guys told Google Capital and Kleiner Perkins that Uber is totes illegal? Radbot fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Sep 9, 2015 |
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Sep 9, 2015 21:55
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Nessus posted:Yes, that was their point exactly. All I got was people quoting court cases at me and screaming "it's illegal", all I see is Uber operating with impunity. Sounds like it doesn't loving matter if it's illegal or not. Uber is also explicitly legal in my city, I don't know who their "army of lawyers" would be fighting against here.
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Sep 9, 2015 22:13
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Necc0 posted:The thing about governments in general is that sometimes they can be slow to get their rear end moving but you absolutely do not want to be in their way when they do. Yeah, well, I'm waiting. 1099 abuse has been happening for decades, something tells me this won't be the straw that breaks the camel's back and makes the entire temp industry obsolete. And no, there won't be any reform if we get a GOP president who will simply instruct the DOL to change their rules or defund them entirely, falling back to the (much, much looser) statutory definition of a contractor.
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Sep 10, 2015 17:50
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I'd place a $100 bet in escrow right now that there won't be meaningful 1099 reform in the next 10 years.
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Sep 10, 2015 18:59
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Main Paineframe posted:What reform? It's already illegal. It's just the "get sued in court and have to pay back wages after a few years of court proceedings" kind of illegal, just like wage theft. What's the point of making it illegal if the people most likely to be abused are the least likely to have the ability to afford enforcement?
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Sep 10, 2015 20:13
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Nessus posted:This seems to be the "Might as well not make any laws at all, then" argument again. Like you seem to be saying "If the people being abused can't afford enforcement, why bother making it illegal?" Do you feel laws should only be structured to protect the wealthy, like, as a design feature? Uh, no, you completely missed the point. There's a big difference between a cop exercising selective enforcement of a speeding law or something, and a law that literally requires you to be rich or have connections before you can attempt to have it enforced. I don't think it's a coincidence that laws that protect workers tend to work like the latter.
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Sep 11, 2015 16:37
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It's kinda weird how self-driving cars need to have a billion scenarios ready in case someone is "lying injured in the road" and yet if a human driver hit someone lying in the road, nothing would happen to them legallyMain Paineframe posted:What about bicyclists, who typically use hand signals to indicate what they're about to do? Should the car ignore them completely unless they veer in front of it, at which point it will come to a sudden and complete stop in the middle of the road? The car should ignore them unless the bicycle is predicted to intercept its path, kinda like how human drivers do. BTW I live in a very bicycle heavy area and I'd say less than 10% of bicyclists signal, ever.
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Sep 11, 2015 20:04
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Popular Thug Drink posted:hm yes, we should determine if we can find machines criminally liable for an accident If you can find me a single case, anywhere in the US, where a driver has been successfully prosecuted for not seeing someone lying in the road and running them over, I will PayPal you $10 right now. Condiv posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25 I guess I don't see the big difference between human and engineering error, and why we accept human error like it's nothing. I agree though that our attitude towards human incompetence is pretty shameful.
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Sep 11, 2015 20:10
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Popular Thug Drink posted:do they have to be already lying in the road motionless and without injury from some other pedestrian-vehicle collision and the driver also perfectly sober and alert because i want to make sure i pass all of your hopeless pedant filters before i just google "driver convicted for killing pedestrian" which anyone is capable of doing I'm not sure what a pedant filter is, but again, you'll find yourself $10 richer if you can find a case that is even similar to the one condiv talked about. Condiv posted:human error is a constant. Citation loving needed on this one.
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Sep 11, 2015 20:20
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Humans will always make the same mistakes at the same rate, regardless of anything done to change their behavior. Makes sense.
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Sep 11, 2015 20:24
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DolphinCop posted:you accidentally stumbled upon the entire intent and purpose of the tech industry in its present form- allowing middle class people to imitate the privileges available to upper class people on the backs of the labor of the poor. basically everything involving the use of a private servant, from freshly prepared meals to chauffeuring to pet care. yes, there is an "uber for dog walking" btw This is exactly correct and why the collapse of the 1099 economy will never happen - because it would torpedo half of Silicon Valley and doom the party that attempted it to electoral irrelevance for years. The only way America stays "competitive" is the elimination of worker protection.
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Sep 14, 2015 17:57
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blah_blah posted:The 'sharing economy' is still a tiny proportion of tech/SV. Uber, et al are a tiny proportion of Silicon Valley? By what metric?
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Sep 14, 2015 23:04
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I'm sorry but it's just painfully stupid to label anyone concerned about labor-eliminating devices/services a "luddite", as if the changes we're talking about now are in any way comparable to carriage drivers being put out of work by automobiles.
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Sep 15, 2015 20:22
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Iron Twinkie posted:What's funny is that he briefly touches on that unions were why we we had a middle class after the industrial revolution and immediately dismisses it. Even as a granola breathing mega hippy he automatically thinks unions are bads. No the answer is that everyone gets paid for their facebook posts ... by someone... somehow. So what are you basing him being a "granola breathing mega hippy" on, exactly?
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Sep 15, 2015 20:26
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Iron Twinkie posted:
lol @ "why is this man having an opinion that his hairstyle should preclude"
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Sep 15, 2015 20:40
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Iron Twinkie posted:I wasn't intending to poo poo on the dude but trying to point out that the idea of organized labor in this country has been so well poisoned that this guy, after acknowledging Marx's critique or capitalism, and acknowledging that unions were a big part in how we clawed our way out of this problem after the industrial revolution can not accept the idea that organized labor could play a part in the solution this time around. He's not wrong. There's this little problem where capital can move anywhere but people can't that's going to stop unions from ever being a big thing again (outside of a few services that for whatever reason cannot ever physically relocate).
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Sep 15, 2015 22:11
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Iron Twinkie posted:I'll believe this when all those unionized EU countries collapse into third world poo poo holes and every corporation relocates to the libertopian paradise of Somalia. Yes it would be weird if most of Europe were experiencing severe crises in unemployment, wouldn't it
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Sep 16, 2015 04:03
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Noam Chomsky posted:Is the lust for self-driving cars because nerds are afraid to drive? I think it's more that driving is the most dangerous activity that most Americans will ever do, besides eating too much candy.
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Sep 16, 2015 19:36
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Xoidanor posted:The technology for creating a self-driving car is vastly cheaper than the one for creating a good electrical car. Really? Cause my Leaf was pretty affordable and it worked very well. The only thing I couldn't use it for was road trips, otherwise I'd just plug it in at work for free twice a week. QwertyAsher posted:If you want a good idea for how shortsighted and uncreative SV is you don't really need to look further than the idea of thinking that self driving cars are going to fix the larger problem with cars, which is to say, they are cars, and cars are stupid as poo poo, and the only reason we think they're great is because we've created a world where they hold us hostage. Personal ownership of cars for utilitarian purposes is stupid and daily use of cars for the average person who wants a self-driving car is a nightmare. Cars are coffins!! I drive deep into the Rockies every weekend in the summer, does that make me a hostage?
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Sep 16, 2015 21:23
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QwertyAsher posted:If you think self-driving cars are going to be "the evolution for the bus" and not a way for middle and upper middle class whites to further flee into the exurbs and render zero support to the cities that support them I've got some news for you about how everything works. Actually cities will be reserved for middle and upped middle class whites and their self-driving cars, while poors will be relegated to decaying suburbs. Denver and Austin are the archetypes for this.
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Sep 16, 2015 21:30
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No but you see guys if oil is a million dollars a barrel there will be infinite oil, therefore peak oil is fake
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Sep 17, 2015 14:23
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Noam Chomsky posted:Really the future will probably more mega-cities with walkability and public transport, with rural savage lands in-between, and less electric-self-driving cars. Sure, the latter will exist but those who can have them won't need them. The problem is schools. PTD is correct to point out that the white flight from Hipsterton still definitely occurs when babies are on the way.
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Sep 17, 2015 14:35
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So is there a direct, causative relationship between housing density and housing prices? If anything the data appears to show that prices go up as density increases.
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Sep 17, 2015 19:25
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It's almost as if driving professionally should earn you enough money to keep food on the table and not just be "money on the side" considering how much people seem to want/need it. Uber is a charity much like Goodwill, making fat stacks off of the less fortunate.
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Sep 21, 2015 20:39
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BarbarianElephant posted:Automatic transmissions are by no means no-brainers. In the UK, people who use them are kind of seen as wimps, unable to drive properly. The marketing campaign that introduced them must have been really bad... OTOH, manual transmissions are essentially an anti-theft device in the US.
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Sep 21, 2015 21:31
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Bushiz posted:Automatic transmissions were horrifically inefficient until very recently, and they basically relied on a bonkers-huge V8 in a land yacht to make them feel reasonable. They became the norm in the US because hey, V-8 in everything! while everywhere that trended towards smaller engines kept manuals. At this point, though, modern dual-clutch transmissions are better than a manual in every conceivable way, you just don't get to push the clutch pedal What are you talking about? Somehow my 2004, auto, I-4 Toyota Corolla doesn't feel unreasonable and I own multiple motorcycles and a 1985 Toyota Tercel 4WD in manual.
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Sep 21, 2015 21:57
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Nintendo Kid posted:a large part of their business model rests on there being a ton of suckers to sign up and keep signing up as previous ones burn out/realize they're screwed. Exactly. "Ride" "sharing" sounds awesome until you realize that most people are assholes to service people, and now those assholes are in your car treating you like an rear end in a top hat, and you're experiencing terrifyingly massive levels of liability for a few bucks above minimum wage.
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Sep 22, 2015 02:33
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Pope Guilty posted:Yeah, Uber's real innovation is getting their employees to own the capital without taking the share of revenues generally reserved for the owners of the capital in a firm. Except no real investor would accept artificially capped gains, and at that volume. If drivers could set their own price and be hailed, or not, as demand varied, I'd be with you. I think one of the apps does this, actually.
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Sep 22, 2015 04:14
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refleks posted:My point wasn't you fake a self-driving car. My point was in order for self-driving cars to gain wide-spread adoption, the public need to be able to trust that a car's software is working as intended and not flawed - either through maliciousness or incompetence on the part of the designers. Do you trust the people who say they're in compliance with FAA regs when you get on their plane and fly on it? Why? They might be lying like VW!!
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Sep 22, 2015 14:01
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refleks posted:You're right. I retract everything. If we cannot ensure complete compliance across the board for everything in the world, we should not be questioning anything. You're right, that statement does make about as much sense as your "one time a company lied, therefore how can you trust anyone at any time"
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Sep 22, 2015 14:38
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Haven't heard anything bad about Nissan recently.
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Sep 23, 2015 18:55
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