M. Discordia posted:

An interesting data point: an NPR article about another topic entirely refers to Venezuela as an "authoritarian country" simply in passing, as an established fact even among the left-leaning NPR audience.

http://www.npr.org/2015/10/05/445989338/univisions-jorge-ramos-discusses-journalism-and-that-donald-trump-press-conferen

Cicero posted:

I meant real socialist states, y'know, the ones with the planned/command economies and a minimal or non-existent free market, which is what Venezuela has been moving towards with the various nationalizations (and is clearly what Chavez and Maduro were aiming for). Social democracies that have both strong public and private sectors are fine, everyone knows those can work ok.

Woolie Wool posted:

It reminds me of when the premier of East Germany told the people that they had failed the Soviet occupation socialist revolution and would have to redouble their efforts to regain the government's confidence.

quote:

After the uprising of the 17th of June
The Secretary of the Writers' Union
Had leaflets distributed in the Stalinallee
Stating that the people
Had forfeited the confidence of the government
And could win it back only
By redoubled efforts. Would it not be easier
In that case for the government
To dissolve the people
And elect another?

fnox posted:

The policies of the Venezuelan government aren't so much socialist as they are anti-capitalist. This usually is the same thing, but not all socialist doctrine are opposed to capitalism, AKA why people usually mention the Nordic Model as an example of socialism in action. Ultimately the government's failures in terms of policy are marred by a constant misunderstanding of how economic policy should function, mainly fueled by Chavez' own lack of expertise on the matter.

At the moment I don't think there is one sane economist that can defend the economic policy of Venezuela.

Krispy Kareem posted:

How do people stay wealthy when inflation is so bad? Do you just keep assets in other currencies or do you get more near-worthless dollars than poor people in order to keep pace?

GlyphGryph posted:

Did Venezuela ever have a "left wing purge" of the sort Russia experienced when the Bolsheviks took over, where they basically drove all the pragmatic/non-insane socialists out of politics in favour of those who would swear absolute loyalty to the cult of personality?

themrguy posted:

How strong is the sense of "Venezuelan" national identity as opposed to regional identity? Is there any possibility of the country fracturing?

fnox posted:

For those wondering what happened today with the OAS, Argentina reversed it's position about Venezuela at the very last minute, something that was one of the campaign promises of Mauricio Macri. In the end what was approved was a much lighter version of Luis Almagro's proposal (That was even approved by Venezuela's delegate itself...Only Paraguay was against it, that's how much they loving hate Maduro), which means that it is still not definite that the Democratic Charter will be summoned for Venezuela, but at this point it seems unlikely the negotiations will go any further than a mere slap on the wrist.

The reasons for Argentina's "desertion" are still unknown, some stupider sources claim that the representative from Argentina wanted a UN position, some more reasonable ones claim that it's due to the amount of debt Venezuela has with Argentinian companies, and Macri didn't want Venezuela to default on them, which makes a ton of sense considering that's how Macri would think, being a businessman. Without significant international pressure, the recall referendum is unlikely to happen in 2016.

Friendly Humour posted:

Yeah, but I was saying that Venezuela is a world apart from countries like Canada. Comparisons like that don't really work, since the power relations that decide the actions judicial institutions take are different in each case. We can (more or less) trust the publicly stated intentions of the Supreme Court of Canada, but the same is not necessarily the case in Venezuela. And anyway, if you suddenly find yourself going from a position of the highest executive official in the country, to being in power by the whim of the military, one would expect a rather radicalizing effect as a matter of course.

Again I'm not arguing any of what happened was justified, but it's hard to look at this without coming to the Marxist conclusion of what has transpired was a consequence of a democratic movement radicalizing due to its demands being rejected by the conservative political structure.

Feinne posted:

I mean there is going to eventually be a point where the quality of life for even the shitters on top starts to decline, even if it's just because they can't go to their coke parties without passing bloated corpses on the street or all the hookers are laid out with malaria.

You probably already know this from having lived where it's endemic but anyone who still has family in Venezuela, get them mosquito netting and anything else you can because the chances of them getting proper medical attention should they catch malaria seem minimal.

Krispy Kareem posted:

I want to say Romania in 1989 when the last big Eastern European communist dictatorship was overthrown.

Like Venezuela, Romania spent all it's money on foreign debt at the expense of food and imports until they were completely broke. I guess we'll see if Maduro learned anything from Ceaușescu.

Chuck Boone posted:

I can understand this. But do you see how the PSUV exhibits many of the characteristics that we in (I presume) North America could characterise as fascist? Highly nationalistic, very much dependent on existential enemies and people who are "lesser than", extremely militaristic, etc.? The point here being that if any "real" fascists show up, I'm not sure how much different they would look from the PSUV.

punk rebel ecks posted:

Wonder what Venezuelans think of this article.

https://jacobinmag.com/2017/05/unfinished-business

Sinteres posted: