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Telesur publishes state propaganda because it is run by people who benefit from promulgating state propaganda but who may or may not personally believe it themselves. This is dishonest and wrong. The New York Times publishes state propaganda because it is run by people who benefit from promulgating state propaganda, and who are dumb enough to believe it themselves. This is honest and right.
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May 12, 2019 16:55
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Yes they printed lies that killed a half million people and all but admit that if you criticize the US military you're out on your rear end, but they also didn't completely ignore an unrelated thing so I guess it's all good and we can trust the corporate media on their newest war venture
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May 12, 2019 17:43
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Kawasaki Nun posted:So you're under the impression that they only hire journalistic talent that conforms with their political ideology? And the remaining talented would-be journalists are simply blacklisted from the American media employment system? No I'm sure they write fluff pieces on how well-dressed today's Nazis are because it's literally impossible to find a single journalistic talent in America who doesn't swoon over Richard Spencer's ties. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 12, 2019 17:52
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Kawasaki Nun posted:That's a failure of society, not the media. That Joe Blow is disinterested in things that aren't racist or imperialist doesn't mean they don't get examined or reported on, it just means they aren't above the fold. You can literally defend state media the exact same way. "Well I guess the public just cared more about the war we sensationalized in 96-point headlines for 10 months than the story on elite corruption that we buried below the fold, we have no professional or ethical responsibility whatsoever"
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May 12, 2019 17:56
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Kawasaki Nun posted:Are you okay buddy? You seem to be having a moment Fair and balanced Nazi propaganda
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May 12, 2019 17:58
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Kawasaki Nun posted:State media isn't beholden to the tastes of consumers though, that's entirely the point. Does the majority of NYT consumers have a taste for puff pieces on Nazis.
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May 12, 2019 18:01
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A big flaming stink posted:....kind of? I'm interested to see if he makes that argument though since it would destroy his stance that the paper is objective and reliable Kawasaki Nun posted:Yeah I bet they do because it's a rag Haha ok then glad you agree
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May 12, 2019 18:04
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How dare Jackson not pretend he was born yesterday and had never heard of the atrocities the US committed over and over in the name of humanitarian intervention smdh
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May 15, 2019 21:44
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Some humanitarian aid might have been stolen maybe, time to carpet bomb the global south
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May 22, 2019 23:12
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Who cares, even if 90% of the money were being stolen/wasted, the idea that taking away what food does make it to the people is somehow an improvement is insane. Well I guess it's only insane if the value of lives in the Global South is worth more than zero in your personal calculus, if poor foreigners don't rate as human than yeah sure starve as many as it takes to mildly inconvenience someone you don't like.
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May 23, 2019 21:36
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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion: If we are right or not hardly matters
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May 23, 2019 22:12
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GreyjoyBastard posted:i'm not sure who you're arguing with here The people implicitly justifying cutting off food aid to millions of people with "well it was probably all stolen anyway" and "well who cares if I'm right it doesn't matter", I thought that was obvious. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 13:34 on May 24, 2019 |
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May 24, 2019 12:42
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The coup only failed because Maduro rigged public opinion. In a free and fair coup Guaido would have been swept into power on the shoulders of deliriously happy crowds cheering for the restoration of plantations and slaves to their rightful owners. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 14:36 on May 24, 2019 |
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May 24, 2019 14:34
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Radish posted:America's Supreme Court ruled you can't be bribed as a politician unless you say it's a bribe so I asked the World Bank their opinion and they don't think this is corrupt so who's the dummy now. drat there's so much in this map, I never noticed before that it explicitly defines holding 2 million African Americans as slaves as "Enlightened", it doesn't even beat around the bush or ignore the slavery.
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May 24, 2019 16:00
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Yes the Western media lies about the Global South constantly all the time about everything, but that's not an empirical argument not to trust their reporting on the genetically-programmed thievery of the savage races of the globe, nor their prescriptions that Venezuelan children must be starved for their own good.
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May 24, 2019 18:06
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Bob le Moche posted:How the gently caress do you measure a "corruption perception index" and why should anyone take any of it seriously? well thank god we bombed Libya, look at that corruption index, we practically had to
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May 24, 2019 21:41
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That index is great, it's just a hit list of all the places oil and resource companies want the US to bomb back to the stone age. Uh I'm sure the perfect correlation is because Exxon is very concerned about corruption and its heart bleeds for the benighted lands that yearn for someone to bear the white man's burden. No doubt.
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May 24, 2019 22:13
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hm yes it's clearly the American left's fault that Obama's center-right government caged refugee children, and it's clearly even more the American left's fault that Trump took it to the next level. Why isn't the American left writing policy on Venezuelan refugees, inquiring minds want to know (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 28, 2019 19:58
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Yeah it is kind of weird to criticize the US government for its horrific policy towards South American refugees, then demand the US government do something to help Venezuela, when the US government officials who would be ""helping"" Venezuela are the same depraved loons who would happily machine-gun every Venezuelan refugee at the border if they could get away with it. I am pretty sure those guys don't want what's best for Venezuelans!
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May 30, 2019 20:03
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fnox posted:
Uh what do you think an America-approved presidente is going to do
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Jun 3, 2019 00:37
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fnox posted:Pay them back, just not right now. Default, prioritize ending the economic crisis first, then restructure the debt. This is not exactly unheard of in world politics, but it is an admission of having hosed up, which is why Maduro instead committed to continue paying the debt he could pay, and just delayed payment whenever he was forced to. The US financial system was repeatedly shocked by Maduro's commitment to honour its payments. In doing this Maduro just committed to give very wealthy people a lot of money as they bought up bonds at a bargain. While the country starved. My friend have you ever heard of shock therapy
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Jun 3, 2019 15:36
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Well if the argument is that this Guaido guy is a true man of the people and would be such an amazing leader that Venezuelans would be better off getting carpet bombed just to put this guy in charge then yeah I'm not sure "well if Maduro does it, it's fine for Guaido to do too" is the route you want to go
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Jun 6, 2019 15:05
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fnox posted:My argument is and has always been that we're better off rolling the dice on a new guy. I recall that also being the liberal interventionist argument for deposing Saddam, a roll of the dice had to be better than Saddam, right? whoops
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Jun 6, 2019 18:25
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fnox posted:Spare me your torture porn fantasies. Those aren't fantasies, Eliot Abrams literally funded and supported those exact acts and many others in South America, I'm sure he'll be able to tell you're one of the good ones tho
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Jun 6, 2019 18:28
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I mean Saddam Hussein's well-documented atrocities are worse than even the most fantastical crimes Maduro's critics have accused him of, and a US invasion to install a puppet government still managed to make conditions in Saddam's country worse by a staggeringly incomprehensible amount, so this "well it can't possibly get any worse than this" attitude is baffling. It certainly can. Every US intervention for at least 50 years has made things worse for the people. E: like if you went back to 2003 and told people what the outcome of the invasion would be they would have assumed you were either an insane paranoiac or in Saddam's employment VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Jun 7, 2019 |
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Jun 7, 2019 00:24
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Saladman posted:
Saladman posted:
I'm sure the media and political class will wring their hands as they fund and arm atrocities in Venezuela too.
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Jun 7, 2019 13:51
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Also pretty hosed that in terms of awful poo poo Saudi Arabia has done and is doing, the murder of a single journalist is supposed to be a heinous crime. I wasn't going to get into that, but yeah that too, the media and the political class were just fine with Saudi Arabia's horrific record of atrocities until they did it so someone in their class that they can empathize with, and even then the administration is still arming MBS. The idea that they would care if US-backed militias murdered a bunch of poor South Americans is laughable, maybe they would whimper if Guaido killed a journalist and there would be a modicum of handwringing about how bad they feel that they have to keep supporting the only realistic choice for Venezuela.
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Jun 7, 2019 15:46
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Just because Eliot Abrams was responsible for the crucifying children a thousand times doesn't mean he'll do it a thousand and one times, stop learning from the past it has nothing to do with the present
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Jun 9, 2019 20:10
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The previous Cuban government literally practiced slavery
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Jun 16, 2019 06:15
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fnox posted:You're simultaneously bashing America for meddling in Venezuela's affairs and bashing America for not meddling in Venezuela's affairs. It's insane. You bash America when they do rape and torture Nicaraguan children and assassinate healthcare workers, then you turn around and bash America when they don't prosecute financial crimes that occur on their own soil! It's insaaaaaaane that you treat these two perfectly identical situations differently, really crazytown stuff.
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Jun 23, 2019 14:53
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fishmech posted:What is your problem with the UN-directed coalition that fought back against Kim Il Sung's unprovoked invasion Carpet bombing civilians is wrong, fishmech
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Jul 7, 2019 14:31
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fishmech posted:I agree that it was wrong for Kim Il Sung to bomb out vast swathes of the country he was invading, but how is that relevant to Venezuela? Is Maduro planning to carpet bomb Guyana that you brought this up? I didn't bring it up, but I suspect the person who did bring it up was referring to the horrific atrocities the UN committed once they decided that their goal was regime change, like carpet bombing North Korea so throughly they ran out of structures to destroy and started bombing rubble into finer rubble. I can't tell if you are trolling me or are genuinely ignorant of these atrocities but if it's the latter you should read up on contemporary accounts because the US military brass was quite candid about their genocidal campaign and thanks to the prevailing acceptability of racism in 1950 they saw no need to disguise themselves with talk of noble humanitarian goals like they do today when they want to go murder a bunch of foreigners. What it has to do with Venezuela is someone suggesting a UN invasion of that country would be a good idea. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 7, 2019 17:19
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"What do you support, right now, to reduce the suffering and death in Venezuela?" "How about ending the US sanctions, which have demonstrably killed huge numbers of people, and unlike a coup could be done today with the stroke of a pen." "No not that, those deaths are good I mean what will you do to accomplish my regime change objective"
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Jul 8, 2019 15:08
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Schrödinger's sanctions: simultaneously a critically important political weapon to destabilize the government by further strangling the economy and fomenting unrest by depriving the Venezuelan people of necessities, and also totally ineffective and doing nothing at all don't worry about it.
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Jul 8, 2019 15:12
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fnox posted:So are the death squads something the sanctions are to be blamed for or what? No?
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Jul 8, 2019 16:52
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fnox posted:So what you’re telling me is that you don’t believe he is killing, torturing or arresting people? Like, not at all? He’s behaving? OK if electoralism is a no-go, what should be done then.
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Jul 9, 2019 16:35
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I think you're going to have a hard time convincing anyone that a war of regime change will go any better for Venezuelans than it did for Iraqis or Afghans. It's also not going to be easy to convince anyone that if the US did prosecute the war you want, that the motive would have anything to do with opposition to death squads, given the vast numbers of death squads and outright state-run genocide that the US is gleefully funding and arming all around the globe as we speak. But good luck finding anyone who just woke up from a 70 year coma and doesn't know anything about anything, that's your best target audience!
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Jul 9, 2019 17:02
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fnox posted:Oh, there's a third way. It's extremely unlikely to happen, and it will be something no Venezuelan citizen will agree with. But it's there. And it doesn't involve an invasion or US action. Something like that would probably be the best possible outcome for everyone.
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Jul 9, 2019 17:21
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fnox posted:Yeah, except the second that news come out that this kind of agreement has been granted to Maduro, any number of the 3000 generals he's got or anybody else in the government is going to want their own exit agreement. The bill will rack up incredibly quickly and it's very, very hard to tell which are the ones you need to talk with and which you can skip. Yeah that's one of the problems. The original buildup of US troops on Iraq's border was allegedly for the same purpose: to compel Saddam Hussein to give up his (imaginary) WMD and step down, with a credible threat of war only as a last resort. This was completely successful, Saddam did in fact offer to allow thousands of US troops into the country to search for weapons and to hold internationally monitored democratic elections in two years. These offers were, as we all know, rejected by the United States because whoah turns out none of those things were the actual motivations for the US military deployment, who would have ever guessed! fnox posted:Additionally, will the Venezuelan public agree with an option that doesn't grant them any justice, just the possibility of recovery? I doubt it. idk sounds better than being bombed but that's just me. I mean that exact thing happened in South Africa, in the face of imminent civil war the Nats' apartheid government gave up and negotiated a deal to hold the first multiracial democratic elections in exchange for amnesty for all the hideous criminals who had run the apartheid regime for decades. Some people in the ANC weren't happy with that, but the vast majority preferred letting a few criminals go after some Truth & Reconciliation bullshit to open war and hundreds of thousands or millions of deaths. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Jul 9, 2019 |
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Jul 9, 2019 17:34
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fnox posted:I'm telling you why it's not gonna happen. This is the ideal solution but it requires a simultaneous compromise by the Venezuelan public, the government and the opposition in which no one wins. Conditions have to be perfect for it to even take place. It'll fall apart. There's precedent though, compromises have been brokered in other places: South Africa, Northern Ireland
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Jul 9, 2019 17:46
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