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Hello, I grew up in a cult, the same one the notorious Duggar family is in now. EDIT: Better minds than mind have already covered 90% of this, see Prester John's thread -- The name of the cult is IBLP. It's charismatic leader has been dyeing his hair for ages, despite forbidding his followers from doing the same. You can read all about it on wikipedia, which is very well maintained due to the legions of under paid (and often unpaid) "volunteers" in its massive staffing centers. The Institute purchased run down hotels in: *Chicago, Illinois *Oklahoma City, Oklahoma *Indianapolis, Indiana The Centers are run by Volunteers sent by member families (you pay annual membership fees). All members homeschool their children. The curriculum is crap. There's an annual conference in Knoxville, Tennessee. If you think Texas public school curriculum is bad, you should see the Institute's horrible crap. -- I'm the youngest of six children. As such, I wasn't old enough to get sent off to a Center (generally you got sent off around age 15 or so). So I don't know much about it other than what I was told by my siblings (and they don't talk about it anymore). Families were encouraged to have massive numbers of children. My family was close to another family (families were encouraged to band together into Family Groups) that had, last I checked, 12 children. Their poor mother had ~8 miscarriages (and they each got a funeral). Their (somewhat horrifying & constantly angry) father apparently pumped their mother full of fertility drugs to keep her reproducing until age 48 or so (my mother had me at 44). -- I got out about ten years ago, so my facts and even some opinions will be fuzzy & incomplete. Also I have a penis. Women grew to be office drones. Males were shuttled off to the pseudo-para-military section; the ALERT (Action something Emergency Response Team) and ALERT Cadets (I was a cadet). Weapons training was hush hush and not part of the official curriculum; but we always had guns in the house. A lot of the training camps would be considered Terrorist Camps if they were muslim; luckily they were christian! the religion of love, amirite? What I can tell you about : my experiences with homeschooling & religious extremism. Weird judeo-christian practices (diet, dating, and medical treatment were hilarious) of IBLP/ATI. How did I get out? My parents divorced, which is an unforgivable sin. How did I get in? My parents joined up because they thought raising their children would guarantee they weren't awful. Before they Turned Christian they were very liberal hippies, though I didn't learn this until YEARS after they divorced. Bastards. Is homeschooling good? Homeschooling is for people who think they can do better than the public school system. For people with disabled children this is sometimes true. For most families this isn't true at all. Most homeschooling families I've seen do it to indoctrinate their children in whatever dogma they've chosen. In today's economy you really have to be quite wealthy to live on one income, have a poo poo ton of children, and let one parent be home full-time. How do kids make friends if they don't go to school? They don't. I was precluded from socializing with neighbors, they were "heathens". My parents deny this ever happened. homeschooling families often group up so their kids can have *some* social contact, but it doesn't give them the experience of dealing with strangers, learning social boundaries and norms, and people who aren't white. Most homeschoolers are pretty racist, sexist, and homophobic. Why are homeschooled kids so shy? Because they're terrified. I grew into a pretty extroverted person, but it took ten years of drinking and drug use to get over my immense fear of strangers. Once I did, I found I actually enjoy talking to people! Imagine someone who grew up as a nomad on the plains, where ten people together is considered a large gathering. Now throw that person in NYC, imagine how weirded out they'd be. That's what a lot of homeschool'd children grow into. It's traumatic enough that there are survivor groups. Also someone in IRC called this the "quiverfull movement" and this reminds me of some of the horrible mantras & doctrine we had. Children are a quiver full of arrows. Hone your arrows. .. and fire them at your enemies? They never really said. When I was ten or so one of my sisters told me if I decided (remember, homosexuality is evil! and a choice!) I was gay, she'd chop off my dick. That really stuck in my head. I apologize in advance if I can't give extremely thorough answers. I've blocked & forgot a lot of this stuff. froward fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Sep 4, 2015 |
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Aug 27, 2015 17:32
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Do people who leave willingly tend to be women, since it seems they get a pretty raw end of the deal with these kinds of cults/religions?
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Aug 27, 2015 18:18
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Eponine posted:Do people who leave willingly tend to be women, since it seems they get a pretty raw end of the deal with these kinds of cults/religions? Actually yeah. Women tend to be more level headed and aware. My sisters caught on pretty quick and either bided their time or rebelled when they had the chance. Also, here's an article about the HSLDA (a pro-homeschooling lobby) which has strong ties to IBLP. Also IBLP gets (or got, anyway) a lot of funding from Hobby Lobby (the business that won the right -- in a landmark supreme court case -- to impose their owners religious beliefs on their employees).
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Aug 27, 2015 18:24
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Was the cult where you developed your snuff fetish?
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Aug 27, 2015 18:33
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Did any of your family members end up sticking with the cult?
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Aug 27, 2015 18:39
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Ancient Mariner posted:Was the cult where you developed your snuff fetish? Thanatosian posted:Did any of your family members end up sticking with the cult?
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Aug 27, 2015 20:12
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Did you live on a compund? How is it structured? Were there officials that check in on families to make sure they are doing what they are told? Have you had any schooling other than homeschooling? I would be interested in any stories you want to share. The weirder the better.
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Aug 28, 2015 00:16
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IBLP is only really like, a half-cult at best.
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Aug 28, 2015 01:24
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What was the homeschooling like, and what was the curriculum? Was it ACE? How does an IBLP family survive financially? If there's a big family and only one wage earner, who probably isn't well educated, they can't have a load of money. Can you tell us more about the terrorist training? Also, I'm very happy you managed to get out of there. Safety Biscuits fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Aug 28, 2015 |
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Aug 28, 2015 03:12
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Dr.Caligari posted:Did you live on a compund? Group leaders were encouraged to check on families. But "fathers are the head of the household", and men were expected to be the kings of their mini empires. This pattern attracts a lot of weird parents. There was no Official Oversight, although parents could request a Spiritual Leader to have a Talk with a Rebellious Child. (A Woman is to be under her Father's Umbrella Of Protection until she is Married, then she moves to her Husband's Umbrella). Also being friends with the opposite sex was Very Bad (Girls: note that Boys can be Acquaintances but never true Friends; Boys: girls are Strange Smelly Creatures that grow to be Women who should be Placed on Pedestals or perhaps in a Gilded Cage (my language not theirs) Some people lived in houses, a lot of them lived on a chunk of land in the middle of nowhere. There were some strong influences from the survivalist movement. Any time anyone expressed discontent they were declared to have a Root Of Bitterness and someone would Draw Them A Stronghold's Diagram which showed The Enemy's Fortresses Built In Our Minds By Wayward Thoughts That Should Be Fought With Constantly. It was never clear who The Enemy was: some people assumed Satan, but it seemed more to be "the monster in all our heads which wants to do naughty things" (Like wear pants & makeup (for women) or kiss girls (for men, well, for anyone)). There were a lot of little techniques for shutting down certain routes of independent thought, but it was considered Good to admit to Faults and be Publicly Shamed; by extension it is Also Good to Help Others by Shaming Them! The Body Of Believers has many Organs which rely on one another, and these Organs must keep each other Accountable and Pure. When I was 16 I went to a public school for two years of schooling + a proper diploma. Then I went to college (first in my family!) & failed to get a degree (DIS! HONORABLE! CHILD!) Most homeschoolers can pull off a GED (Graduate Equivalence Diploma, which is a program originally designed for enlisted military personnel to get something like a high school diploma; now it is used by prisons & homeschooling families) and then go to some weird christian college. Bob Jones University (garbage school with garbage curricula) was a favorite. Tellara posted:IBLP is only really like, a half-cult at best.
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Aug 28, 2015 10:20
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What were Sunday/group meetings like? What were the modesty and diet rules? How were young members supposed to get engaged/married if boys and girls were taught to avoid each other?
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Aug 28, 2015 12:49
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House Louse posted:What was the homeschooling like, and what was the curriculum? Was it ACE? I don't know what ACE is. The curriculum involved tons of memorized bible scriptures. Science: Any science involved really dumb young earth explanations that you had to be an idiot to believe, so there was like, zero science. Bob Jones university books figured heavily into this. I really, really wanted to learn chemistry as a kid, to make things smell & explode & dyes & poo poo.. this never happened. Actual Real Schools I've been to also had very little chemistry. Kinda sad. Math: In my family I was the only child to actually learn any math, because my parents bought Saxon Math books, which let you teach yourself (so I finished calculus at about 12). Most of my siblings got stuck on algebra, then educated themselves later on (thanks, Internet! and CLEP!) History was reading some god awful David Barton books (lots of whitewashing, genocide apologism). Reading: consistently, ONE thing that homeschooled children excel at is reading comprehension, because they are turned loose with books at a very young age. Typing & computer skills: parents bought a tower with win 3.1 for doing taxes on. We all learned how to type with mavis beacon teaches typing. Social sciences: the closest you ever saw was bible stories somehow smushed around to explain modern day phenomena, especially politics. -- Money: a lot of homeschooling families were either quite well off (example incomes: a pharmaceutical rep; a construction contractor with 100+ employees) or cheerfully lived in abject squalor & grew a lot of their own food. My family fell somewhere in between: we grew a lot of our own food, mom fed us on $25 a week (in 1990's dollars, this is about $50 now) and we wore lots of used clothing. Poverty was surprisingly common, and sometimes viewed as morally superior. Bigger families drove 15-passenger vans (the largest passenger vehicle one can drive in the US without a CDL license) to haul their swarms of spawn around. Wealthier families drove coach buses. The disparity in incomes was never spoken about; in conservative religious circles, being poor is seen as the result of moral failing (ITS GODS WILL DAMMIT). I wish I were joking. -- Terrorist training was your basic marching, drilling, physical challenges (genuine fun) broken up by hours of indoctrination (not fun). Although the ALERT system was supposed to be a Godly Alternative to the extremely Secular and Evil Boy Scouts Of America, there was very little knot tying or public outreach. I remember once some ALERT teams helped fill & stack sandbags in a disaster area and video footage of that got play for years. A big part of indoctrination was the line of thought that "christ is coming back soon" and "it's totally okay to kill if god is on your side". peanut posted:What were Sunday/group meetings like? These are good questions. My family met for daily devotions every morning. Since the kids work day started at sun-up and dad had to go to work, this meant we woke up at 4am. There was shared scripture reading & prayer, then breakfst & work. Sunday was actually "a day of rest", we slept in until 6, then went to our local baptist church to help run the bussing program. Incidentally, baptist churches love bussing programs: they drive around old rickety second-hand schoolbusses, painted in some bizarre color scheme, to the local ghetto, pick up kids, and haul them into church. The kids are herded with a combination of godly threats (and sometimes physical violence) and candy. -- Modesty was: long pants for men, ankle length skirts for women. I don't remember most of the lady rules, but basically: the 1950s. The inconsistent basis of modesty rules meant that women were expected to be Beautiful while also Fully Covered and never wearing any sort of cosmetics. Or shaved legs. Or any of the little ways that women feel beautiful. The only Weird Thing I had to do, as a penis-haver, was to wear a shirt while swimming. Dating was called "courting", and despite my many questions I never found out what the differences were. A suitor was supposed to approach a woman's father to negotiate marriage. Yep, really. Girls were taught that men could sometimes be friends, but could never be touched. But also to be meek and quiet and never complain. this is how abusers groom their future victims to never speak up -- We didn't hug much as a family. I remember my parents hugging us after a "spanking" (to those unfamiliar with the term, it refers to beating a child on the bottom with whatever's handy. My mom liked a big rubber spatula.) To this day I force myself not to recoil when someone hugs me. Also we were constantly told that The Secular World (that's what they call anyone who isn't Inside) was very evil and cruel. Christians were good and kind. Personally I got the crap beat out of me regularly at church (I had hosed up teeth because we couldn't afford dental care (or it was evil? idk) plus I was malnourished and an easy target). With no social context I thought that was normal, so I grew into a somewhat cruel teenager. Many homeschooled teens were kinda hosed up: in the limited social circle I was in, I knew of four eating disorders (mostly women) a pyromaniac & a kleptomaniac. That I knew of. One very dangerous mental pattern put forward was "everything is god's plan!" + "god made you perfect. don't change yourself" + "thoughts which you have are your fault". which means that hosed up thoughts & behaviour were either denied or punished. Try beating a child to make them not be afraid of the dark. It doesn't work. there's worse, way worse, that I kind of want to talk about to Spread Awareness, but it's personal & I just don't trust these you guys to not be the worst people about it. I hadn't thought about a lot of this stuff & years and it's kinda loving with my head.
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Sep 1, 2015 23:19
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Tellara posted:IBLP is only really like, a half-cult at best. This is an interesting thing to think about. On the one end of DEFINITELY A CULT you have groups that actually kill themselves for ostensibly religious purposes. On the other end of NOT AT ALL A CULT you have churches. In my mind, they are the same. The only reason Churches are not called Cults is because they only extort their members for money, not death. In america it's a thing you all know exists & happens but you don't worry about it because "it'll never happen to me" or "I'm smarter than that". You aren't. Nobody is. Predators are all around you. You don't see them because you don't know what to look for.
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Sep 1, 2015 23:23
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froward posted:In my mind, they are the same. The only reason Churches are not called Cults is because they only extort their members for money, not death. There are people who earnestly attempt to answer these questions (most priests, rabbis, imams, yogis, etc) and they are generally held in regard because these questions are hard, and every person who asks them ends up with a different answers. These people have attempted to answer these questions as best they can for a substantial part (if not all) of their adult lives, and that has value. The tradition is to ask for donations as opposed to a retainer (most churches, synagogues, mosques, and temples do not, in fact, force tithing), but people generally recognize the value. There are people who callously manipulate others' attempts to answer these questions (cult leaders, politicized priests/rabbis/imams/yogis/etc) and they are generally held in disdain because people naturally attempt to ask experts (as opposed to their family or the closest person at hand) when attempting to get something done. If an expert is not available they will default to family/closest person at hand, but people prefer an expert. And someone who is manipulating that position is, well, not respectable. At their core, they're not providing the value they claimed they would provide, and are frequently charging exorbitantly for it. To call these two groups the same is absurd. Incidentally, you can apply the same standard to science. Science as a whole is about the search for truth. It attempts to answer questions like "What is this?", "How does it work?" and "How does it interact with the things around it?" There are people who earnestly attempt to answer these questions (most scientists) and they are generally held in regard because these questions are extremely hard and every person who asks wants a terse, unifying, easy to understand answer, which is extremely difficult to provide and be correct. There are people who callously manipulate others' attempts to answer these questions (such as corporate shill scientists for asbestos, cigarettes, etc, and fad scientists who violate the scientific method by quoting a study as support when that study's hypothesis had nothing to do with their assertion) and they are generally held in disdain because of the same expert-preference exploitation that follows from religious authorities. Is there no distinction between those two groups of people as well? Coolguye fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Sep 2, 2015 |
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Sep 2, 2015 00:30
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Was there any friendliness with other strict churches? The ankle-length skirts remind me of the one Pentacostal girl at my school. How much is tithing/mandatory donations? Does missionary work happen? Is it voluntary or forced?
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Sep 2, 2015 00:42
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Coolguye posted:Is there no distinction between those two groups of people as well? religion does give hope, and so we see churches blossom in poorer neighborhoods. i grind my teeth in anger and spit on the graves of the righteous. peanut posted:Was there any friendliness with other strict churches? The ankle-length skirts remind me of the one Pentacostal girl at my school. -- money I have no idea about, just that the membership fees were steep enough to cause my parents to argue about them. -- "missionary work", hoo boy.. members of my family have been to singapore, mongolia, moscow, south america. sometimes it was some kind of actual work-- like building ethics education programs in small businesses. or more often it was awful patronizing schtick involving recited scripture, horrible songs, exaggerated hand motions, and awful bible stories. I'll ask around for some horrible stories. I'm sure to think of a few of my own as well.
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Sep 2, 2015 05:12
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froward posted:This is an interesting thing to think about. The definition of a cult is mostly dependent on financial and social control. Things like paying enormous dues to be a part of the church or being required to tithe to be a part of the church, but also forbidding women to work outside the home (financial and social control). That's why Scientology is considered a cult. I used to live next to a yoga cult. They offered really cheap yoga classes.
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Sep 2, 2015 15:36
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Eponine posted:The definition of a cult is mostly dependent on financial and social control. Things like paying enormous dues to be a part of the church or being required to tithe to be a part of the church, but also forbidding women to work outside the home (financial and social control). That's why Scientology is considered a cult. I agree. A non-cult church is more like a social club. You have weekly meetings with people of similar background (race, social class, etc.). At the same time you hopefully get good advice about how to live your life: be nice to others, help the poor, don't cheat on your wife, etc. You may also participate in charitable events for the community, have barbeques, play basketball, etc. In return you pay what are essentially dues, for building upkeep and to pay the minister a salary. But a non-cult church is not about control. There is an aspect of it being about continuity, in that the people in your church are following traditions handed down to them by their parents, and the social group is homogeneous and therefore serves as a good place for your kids to find others to pair up with, when they reach that age. People like that, in general. Obviously there are some religious aspects to it as well. But that part of it is on a spectrum just like anything else. Some churches are very liturgical and rigid, others are far more laid back. IBLP/ATI is about control, so I call it a half-cult. But to put it on the same level as Scientology or the People's Temple (Jim Jones) is, I think, not being realistic. The latter cults have or had tangible consequences for leaving. With IBLP you can just stop doing it if you want, whenever you want. And a lot of people did. It was far more popular in the 1970s. There are trends in everything.
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Sep 4, 2015 19:38
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Tellara posted:A non-cult church is more like a social club. that this exists is very new to me personally. Tellara posted:The latter cults have or had tangible consequences for leaving.
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Sep 4, 2015 21:49
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froward posted:I don't know what ACE is. The curriculum involved tons of memorized bible scriptures. This is ACE: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3659026 What's your favorite bible verse? What happens to people who leave the cult? Do they try to stop you? Are you cut off completely from your family and friends if you do manage to leave? Do they continue to harass you?
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Sep 4, 2015 22:00
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VideoTapir posted:This is ACE: quote:You could replace PACEs with Sudoku puzzle books for how they teach you – you become very, very good at answering the specific types of questions that the PACEs want to ask. Oh, as you grow older, you’ll have to write out larger sections of text, but you won’t ever have to engage with the question, just with the structure of a sentence. This sounds familiar. ---- People who left were cut off, as far as I know. I remember hearing about lawsuits against people in higher positions who left or were ousted, to recover "stolen property" but really just to make their lives financially hell. Prester John has already covered it way better than I could.
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Sep 4, 2015 22:42
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What's the policy on angels and demons?
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Sep 4, 2015 22:52
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peanut posted:What's the policy on angels and demons? they're extremely real, of course. any mental problems (depression; adhd; eating disorders) were the result of DEMONS!!!1 and how do you get rid of demons? scripture. they hate scripture! obviously this never worked, and so blame was shifted to the sufferer, who clearly wasn't trying hard enough to get rid of the demons. So, you learned to internalize your own weaknesses as something you were "choosing" to do. also I distinctly remember a problem child getting daubed with olive oil & prayed over, to no effect. Any unwillingness to comply was labeled a "rebellious spirit" sometimes metaphorically (to mean "that person is stubborn") but often literally (to mean "that person is possessed by demons") more often, "rebellious children" were sent off to Training Centers, to have their lives closely monitored and regulated by holy people. quote:Then instead of tutoring me, the instructors told my mother that I had demons in my head that torment me and distract me from learning. Which I believe would be called A.D.D.D. (Attention Deficit Disorder by Demons) my own family was extremely unusual: our mother was a reformed hippy who encouraged us to draw or paint. I remember being allowed to doodle on paper during hours-long sermons, this kept me quiet & still, but was viewed as a Moral Failing. Better the devil you know, right? for some reason none of my siblings ever took up any artistic hobbies. I don't know why. EDIT: Oh, and like the ACE survivor I quoted: we were strongly discourage by the curriculum against undertaking any art or critical thought, including creative writing, drawing, painting. Musical instruments were Good, especially the piano. froward fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Sep 4, 2015 |
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Sep 4, 2015 23:15
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froward posted:
What DO you look out for? There doesn't seem to be much of this crap around Europe, so the most far-out thing I've personally encountered is wandering pairs of Mormons. Are there any particular little quirks that aren't immediately obvious to the layman which would be telltale signs of cult involvement to someone who's grown up in that environment?
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Sep 5, 2015 20:14
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Faux-rear end Nonsense posted:What DO you look out for? There doesn't seem to be much of this crap around Europe, so the most far-out thing I've personally encountered is wandering pairs of Mormons. Are there any particular little quirks that aren't immediately obvious to the layman which would be telltale signs of cult involvement to someone who's grown up in that environment? Wish I had a good answer for this. A lot of it comes down to gut instinct for me now. In general it comes down to: The sheep: True believers who wear evangelical shirts without a trace of irony, refer to the bible and "god's word" in any discussion about government/regulation/the weather. Any attempt to persuade you will be a clumsy repetition of lines they've heard, like "if you don't believe in god you have no morality!". Out themselves at the soonest opportunity. Usually harmless until they're goaded into action by a Shepherd: The leaders. Usually give themselves titles like pastor/preacher/minister. Has a dece cult of personality built around them. Sociopaths who decide very quickly if you're susceptible to their message, an actual threat to their flock (most kind but strong people), or a potential object lesson to the flock to solidify their power (if you an atheist, gay, etc) Roll a 1d10. If you roll a 1, make a willpower save against instant conversion. If you roll a 10, make a intelligence save against a random parishioner deciding you're the next jesus & dogging your footsteps. Any other roll, consult the Jeer table in the appendix to see how horribly the Shepherd will abuse you. The tricky thing is when this pattern combines itself with other worlds. Charles Manson's cult was a bunch of hippies that he pimped out and eventually started having kill. The hippy/commune/anarchist pattern of "no leaders! no structure!" is very susceptible to becoming a cult of personality around the most controlling sociopath in the bunch. The cult pattern is nearly the same as the pimp/prostitute pattern. The same mindset of "you aren't worth poo poo, only I give you value". Only the methods of giving value and proving your loyalty change. -- As for quirks.. talk to a social worker about pimps. Ask what to look for.
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Sep 7, 2015 16:44
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froward posted:The sheep: ... Usually harmless until they're goaded into action by a Shepherd: ... If you haven't read Bob Altemeyer's The Authoritarians, you should. It delves into these personality types and will probably equip you with better language to describe this phenomenon. He published it for free, so this link is to the pdf.
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Sep 7, 2015 20:18
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I did just download this PDF earlier this week when I read some other threads! I haven't read it yet.. PDF->epub doesn't work so hot, and I can't put it on my ereader..
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Sep 7, 2015 23:19
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There's a homeschooling etiquette thread in gbs y'all might like
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Sep 7, 2015 23:21
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peanut posted:There's a homeschooling etiquette thread in gbs y'all might like and yet you don't link it, instead expecting every person to find it on their own. huh. why do you even post?
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Sep 8, 2015 02:24
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Lol it's stickied to the top of page 1, sorry for your loss
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Sep 8, 2015 03:33
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froward posted:and yet you don't link it, instead expecting every person to find it on their own. huh. why do you even post? For the lazy: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3740333
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Sep 8, 2015 03:37
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froward posted:and yet you don't link it, instead expecting every person to find it on their own. huh. why do you even post? looking for stickied threads on the front page of one of the topmost boards on somethingawful.com is hard
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Sep 8, 2015 04:34
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At what age did you discover or realize that this was all bullshit? Did you have internet access and his free were you able to use it? I had a friend in high school who had a "Christian ISP" or something along those lines. It might have just been a blocker or something
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Sep 8, 2015 18:33
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stringball posted:At what age did you discover or realize that this was all bullshit? Weirdly we had internet, my family always had a house PC, and we got broadband in 2000. Internet didn't really help with Knowledge at the time, because none of us had ever learned proper research skills. I was a proper nerd child who bought some ancient PCs at yard sales and did stuff I read about online with them. Like installing Debian off hot-cycled floppies & overclocking a 486 (the chip popped off the board! SO LEET) -- I was about ten when I started having doubts about THE BIBLE after asking some really basic questions to some pastors about various contradictions I had found, and they gave me unsatisfactory answers. And then insulted me. But I was foremost a LOYAL SON so I tried very hard to believe until age 16 when I was sent to another continent on a Mission Trip. My parents had given up on hardcore dogma for about five years, and the trip organizers were hardcore (Hellhole-with-retirees based, lol) southern baptists who mandated something like four hours of listening to sermons daily. Usually after meals, so VERY hard to not fall asleep (and if you did, you were assigned an extra hour of hard labor! this was called a Special Blessing  My old method of "paying attention while doodling" was FORBIDDEN for some reason, my pencils were confiscated, but we were still allowed to have knives, so me and one other guy started giving ourselves prison tattoos.To clarify: we slashed away at our skin with dull pen knives because the pain relieved the mind numbing boredom of listening to a man drone on about THE LORD for hours on end. We were both pretty ADHD. I got most of a circled A (ANARCHY MOTHERFUCKER i was sixteen okay) before I was caught. They didn't take my knife tho, lol. Anyway that trip, broke my faith completely, I went to church a couple more times and would pretend to believe for a few more years, until I found out that neither of my parents gave a poo poo and had resorted to their pre-christian pastimes of drinking & weeeeeeeed. Then I went through a few years of being angry about how my parents lied to me for my own good, etc. Then I got over that. Now I'm on good terms with them. Whatever, they're human. -- A fun anecdote: my dad's family is all mennonite & christian; At a family gathering one of my cousins came at me with standard christian small talk opener: H: So, where are you going to church these days?  M: I don't go to church anymore.  H: What!? Why?  M: Well, I'm an atheist-- UH I MEAN  H: EYES FILLING WITH TEARS-- but.. but that means.. you're going to hell!  she is now a Missionary, so people give her money to travel the world and lead a Godly Example. because mennonites aren't big on proselytizing she doesn't even have to be an annoying evangelical! or learn the language! dece scam.
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Sep 8, 2015 19:20
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froward posted:Group leaders were encouraged to check on families. But "fathers are the head of the household", and men were expected to be the kings of their mini empires. This pattern attracts a lot of weird parents. There was no Official Oversight, although parents could request a Spiritual Leader to have a Talk with a Rebellious Child. (A Woman is to be under her Father's Umbrella Of Protection until she is Married, then she moves to her Husband's Umbrella). Also being friends with the opposite sex was Very Bad (Girls: note that Boys can be Acquaintances but never true Friends; Boys: girls are Strange Smelly Creatures that grow to be Women who should be Placed on Pedestals or perhaps in a Gilded Cage (my language not theirs) froward posted:Any time anyone expressed discontent they were declared to have a Root Of Bitterness and someone would Draw Them A Stronghold's Diagram which showed The Enemy's Fortresses Built In Our Minds By Wayward Thoughts That Should Be Fought With Constantly. It was never clear who The Enemy was: some people assumed Satan, but it seemed more to be "the monster in all our heads which wants to do naughty things" (Like wear pants & makeup (for women) or kiss girls (for men, well, for anyone)). There were a lot of little techniques for shutting down certain routes of independent thought, but it was considered Good to admit to Faults and be Publicly Shamed; by extension it is Also Good to Help Others by Shaming Them! The Body Of Believers has many Organs which rely on one another, and these Organs must keep each other Accountable and Pure. Which of these capitalized terms are Terms, and how many of them are just terms?
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Sep 8, 2015 20:00
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it is posted:Which of these capitalized terms are Terms, and how many of them are just terms? Real terms: Head of the household* spiritual leader* rebellious child root of bitterness stronghold diagram* the enemy fortresses (of unforgiveness) the body of believers* some more: spiritual warfare demonic possession these were all spoken of as if they were tangible things, to be fought or feared. The ones I've starred were Good Things, or titles that exist in that world.
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Sep 8, 2015 22:04
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Was your break a sudden dramatic event or was it a slow drift away? I mean it sounds like you were drifting off for a long time but I'm curious if there was one big incident you'd point to and say "that's where it changed" or if you spent years building up the nerve to leave? What did you do when you left?
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Sep 14, 2015 23:19
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CheeseThief posted:Was your break a sudden dramatic event or was it a slow drift away? I mean it sounds like you were drifting off for a long time but I'm curious if there was one big incident you'd point to and say "that's where it changed" or if you spent years building up the nerve to leave? for most major events in my life i can identify a point where it began -- where my motives or mindset changed; and then when I actually did something about it. I got a lot of strong doubt at 12, when my mom first moved out. I tried really hard to believe for the next four years, but my faith snapped when I was 16 and was sent overseas on a Mission Trip and then realized that either there's no god, or s/he doesn't give a poo poo about our petty lives, as makes no difference. hth
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Sep 15, 2015 00:38
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So I'm confused about your parents' involvement in this - the way you phrased it makes it sound like they kind of just gradually lost interest like some people lose interest in a hobby? Because if true, drat. How'd they get started in it? What happened to make them duck out? What's your relationship with them like, if you don't mind my asking?
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Sep 15, 2015 02:02
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Depressio111117 posted:So I'm confused about your parents' involvement in this - the way you phrased it makes it sound like they kind of just gradually lost interest like some people lose interest in a hobby? Because if true, drat. How'd they get started in it? What happened to make them duck out? What's your relationship with them like, if you don't mind my asking? my parents were hippies. then they decided to Find Jesus so their children didn't grow up pregnant & violent. once they divorced they dropped almost all pretenses of christianity. my mother still tries new religions, my father goes to church to network. before and after they were christians, my parents smoked a lotta weed. my relationship with my parents is pretty okay now. because we can smoke weed together.
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Sep 16, 2015 17:03
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