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I just finished watching Macross Frontier and Delta. Frontier is a great series that's worth watching on its own merits. Nuanced characters, good plot, cool cyborg conspiracies, excellent music, and visually gorgeous. Delta is a good series that has good characters, good music, cool antagonists with face turns, and is also really pretty to look at. One of the defining characteristics of a Macross series is the love triangle. It's always going to be a major theme of the series. Since I';m comparing them on back to back viewings, I'm confident in giving Delta the edge; my heart aches for Mirage, and I'm also really proud of her for how she handles herself. In Frontier, Ranka/Alto is never going to work out. It's obviously a crush; it's sweet but it's doomed. Alto sees Ranka as a kid, but Sheryl as a challenge and at least an equal. In Delta, Freja/Hayate is pretty inevitable because Mirage is Hayate's senior officer; a relationship there would be just plain wrong. With Freja, I will admit that the "14 year-old who's actually middle-aged because her species only lives til 30 or so" is skeevy. Arguably, Hayate should end up with neither Freja nor Mirage because both relationships are inappropriate, but I'll credit the series for having Mirage bow out gracefully, showing a lot of character. Frontier has better mecha action scenes, no contest. Fighting the Vajra gives us some of the best action in any Macross series. Again, Delta is good, but Frontier is great. The hair on the back of my neck stands up watching Frontier but not Delta. Both series have good action, but Frontier is just better. The end of episode 1 where a Vajra heavy unit literally juices a human pilot is the climax of a truly great action sequence, and an excellent "poo poo just got real" moment. Characters. Delta really only has two main characters, Hayate and Freja, and neither has a serious character arc. Both of them achieve their life's ambition in episode 3. After that, it's two established characters working through the main plot. There's no real development of them, or really any of the other characters. Mirage gets a little, and Messer gets a couple of episodes worth He gets Fokker-ed in episode 10 , but the Delta characters are pretty static. In Frontier there are three main characters; Alto, Ranka, and Sheryl. The backup characters like Michael, Luca, Ozma, and Grace get some decent development. The main three are well-developed as people with real damage and real family issues doing their best to do the right thing. They save the galaxy despite themselves. Their personalities are shown early, and there's backup to all of it. Sheryl and Alto especially have some behavioral issues; both are often not kind to those they care for. Late in the series, episode 20 we get a scene that ties all of their poo poo together. The SMS has mutinied and bailed from the Frontier fleet. Alto stayed "loyal" and is now a flight leader for New UN Spacy (NUNS). We see him leading a patrol with a couple of really green new pilots and having to play the veteran who knows what he's doing. After a scene showing that, he ends up at home with Sheryl cooking dinner. We finally get a piece of her background as a street kid stealing food from dumpsters. We also see Alto cooking an elegant meal out of whatever they could get while food is being rationed. Sheryl helps a bit, but her main purpose in this scene is to be literally triggered by sitting down to a home cooked meal in a domestic relationship. Alto's cooking skill reminds us that he broke with his surviving family about a year ago. It's never textual, but he's obviously been living by himself and going to high school. For both of these characters, this scene brings their past misbehavior into sharp focus; they both survived rough family situations by relying on themselves with no support. Sheryl was rescued from starvation on the streets by Grace, but Alto never had anyone to rely on but himself since his mother died 9 years ago, plus or minus an abusive relationship with his father. It's a very sweet scene that speaks volumes about both people in it. Music. Frontier is better. Delta has no rock n' roll, while some of Sheryl's tunes rock. On the whole, I personally like the individual singer with occasional duets of Frontier to Delta's idol group with occasional solos. Your mileage may vary. The series as a whole. Frontier has its "poo poo gets real" moment in the first episode. Delta waits, and never has anything with the impact of what happens to Guilliam at the end of episode 1. Frontier has better characterization overall. Both have villains trying to create a literal galaxy brain. We're expecting a new Macross series and a Delta movie late this year; I just hope they mix up the villain's objective some. Everyone should watch Frontier, it's a great Real War giant robot series with music. If you like Macross style stuff, you'll love Delta. Then there are the movies. Whoo-eee, the second Frontier movie, Wings of Goodbye is way more than just an alternate take on the series story. Things get VERY different very quickly. I love it, there are just so many scenes where I was just simply joyful to see how they're playing with the characters and setting to come up with new plot. The movies are also dead sexy looking; Frontier has very high production values and is very pretty. The movies have an almost absurd budget and look simply stunning. We also get new music, some by Sheryl, some by Ranka. Watch them after the series for an extra treat. e. have some videos. [pretend I linked all of Frontier ep. 7 here, it's on Youtube. Macross is the series that makes its own AMVs] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEnQA0uJaug https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQDVQdiHSsk Did I mention the soundtrack for Frontier was done by Yoko Kanno ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1obTdLvPgQ A live piece they did at a con, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEhp9cHNuzs And some Delta love, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOGVbpF6D8g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4R0JijjR70 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV9l3vBxU2Y and a bonus from Wings of Goodbye, ride the wave ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uULjjKgHPkE mllaneza fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Jul 22, 2018 |
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Jul 22, 2018 05:58
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Raxivace posted:I enjoyed both Frontier and Delta a lot but personally preferred Delta. I just generally liked its music and spectacle better, and I liked its goofy aspects like the conspiracy revolving around apples and bottled water and so on. I'd say its biggest flaw is that the ending doesn't' really have the impact it should. Still ended up being my favorite anime of 2016 though. I'm going to agree that Delta didn't land its ending as well as it could have. It was still really good. The Frontier movies had a "holy poo poo" moment about every 5 minutes, so for entertainment value they rate really high. Two hours worth of one of the movies is more entertaining than 5 episodes, but the Frontier series has real heart and character. Watch it all !
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Jul 22, 2018 06:49
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Yeah, Windermere was just another reason Delta fell short of greatness. The worst of it was, we had the second villain in a row trying to create a galaxy brain with themselves at the center pulling the strings. And let's face it, Chancellor Roid is not half the villain that Colonel/Doctor Grace O'Connor was. Looking back again, I'd say the high point of Delta was the exposition dumps towards the end. Frontier never did a clip show. Delta shouldn't have, but I like the recap of Macross history and the gorgeous static art they did to represent each of the shows; I'd pick up a poster of the art they did for Frontier if one is available; this one.  But there's one thing I am super intrigued about that Delta brought up. How the holy gently caress did Lynn Minmei, Lady M according to the sub I watched, end up running a mercenary fleet that controls multiple Macross-class units ? Another nice thing in Delta, the beautiful piano arrangement of one of Minmei's tunes at the end of episode 25. Last note, there are some decent dogfights in Delta where the transforming ability comes into play. Hayate can make a VF dance after all. But, compared to Frontier the fights fall short on composition, stakes, and music. There's nothing in Delta that can touch Alto beating a rogue Zentraedi in the middle of the series, and that's not Frontier' best dogfight. Frontier makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up, Delta.. doesn't.
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Jul 31, 2018 05:08
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One thing I liked is how they handle humanity getting a progressively better and better handle on the sciency side of the power of song. By the time Delta rolls around, they're analyzing bio-fold waves in real time with handheld devices. This could have been the series' "midichlorian moment", but they managed not to ruin it. Emotion and heart are still the keys to it, even if they can measure it.
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Jul 31, 2018 16:19
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Guy Goodbody posted:Second season of Space Battleship Tiramisu Yamato 2202 is really good, They spent like 5 episodes on "Hey ! Remember the Comet Empire ?" and the followed up with "yeah, none of that poo poo is happening." drat but I love when a remake exceeds the original. 2202 has good character stuff, fantastic action scenes, and the show's mythology gets weird.
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Oct 17, 2018 07:42
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Guy Goodbody posted:no there's really a show called Space Battleship Tiramisu Ok, so that's a thing that exists.
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Oct 18, 2018 00:42
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chiasaur11 posted:So, going for another taste from the mech sampler platter, I finally tried an episode of Code Geass, just to say I had. Speaking of the mech sampler platter, Macross Frontier is on YouTube, subbed in 720. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnBgMIYA874
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Mar 2, 2019 01:15
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Darth Walrus posted:Definitely a pro watch if you have any love for musical punchplanes. It's not the cleanest show, either artistically or writing-wise, but it's a nicely complete package that starts well, ends well, and keeps up the tempo pretty decently throughout its run, and still looks and sounds pretty great even with the aging CGI and occasionally slipshod character art. Episode 7 is still one of the best action experiences in mecha anime, and works pretty well as a twenty-minute taster for the show. I really loved Frontier and was moderately enthusiastic about Delta. Based on that, what should I watch next ?
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Mar 2, 2019 09:32
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Kanos posted:Plus if you haven't seen it. I have !
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Mar 3, 2019 05:16
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2202 was a 7.5 or 8 to 2199's 9. I think they went a little too far in needing exponential notation to track orders of battle onscreen at any given moment, but gently caress it it was cool anyway. They lost track of the heart of the series a little, the crew is what's important. Adding Gamilon and Gatlantis characters doing their own thing spread the focus away from the developed cast from 2199. Both were good and interesting and advanced the plot, but they should have been doing it in relation to characters we already knew more than they did. Bring on the next series and make lots of cool models ! e. I just watched about 24 minutes of the Macross Delta movie, and I can say without hesitation or qualification that they should have done just this. If you've been put off the series by underwhelming reviews, this may be just the thing. I'll check in again when I've got through the whole thing. mllaneza fucked around with this message at 05:54 on May 21, 2019 |
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May 21, 2019 03:30
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Yeah, most of it's hundreds of copypasta space ships. There are a few with a hero ship that adds some dynamism to lackluster scene, like Kodai's destroyer breaking formation and going wild on the Gatlantis fleet.Too many shots of copypasta Andromedas dragged the series down. That shot in the credits with the Yamato maneuvering in front of a planet and zooming off is an amazing piece of animation. It's a pity we weren't getting something of that quality every time we see a ship in danger.
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May 21, 2019 07:14
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:that is still the most macross episode ever I love how it's six episodes of "that's cool, one of the bridge bunnies is a guy dude" followed up by "oh poo poo, he's the badass they trusted to fly the Macross Quarter"
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Jul 5, 2019 02:18
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All Macross is good stuff, at its best it's great (DYRL, Frontier, Plus). This is also your reminder that Macross Frontier is on YouTube subbed at 720p. In other news, I just now finished Yamato 2202. Holy poo poo that ended well. I am insanely jealous of anyone who got to see the finale in an actual theater. The character stuff was great, the space explosions were amazing, and the philosophy and message were exactly on point. 2199 was a great re-make. 2202 went above and beyond to use the original second series to tell an amazing new story, while keeping true to the message the series has been preaching since day one. 2202 is definitely one of the greatest anime series in the last few years. I'll get some detail later, this is just an OMG reaction post.
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Sep 26, 2019 06:25
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Helter Skelter posted:When did that actually finish up? I was waiting to watch until it was all done and out, but it's been a while and I kinda lost track. It finished up a few months ago, I'm shamefully behind. Get
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Sep 27, 2019 06:56
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My big problem is that Hayate and Freyja get what they wanted very early in the series. Hyatt finds a place to belong and do what he's good at, and Freyja joins Waljurie. Both by the 4th episode. After that, their characters have no development and worse, no struggle. All they have is the lopsided love triangle with Mirage. I give Mirage a lot of credit for bowing out of it, but she's Hayate's training officer, she has no business feeling anything romantic for him. There is the episode after Hayate shoots down his first enemy and has to deal with being a killer, but that's about it for development. I do appreciate that they put this in; Alto never had to deal with it because he wasn't fighting people. If you go back to Frontier, you get a whole slate of characters who struggle throughout the series. Sheryl is still dealing with PTSD from her childhood on the streets, Ranka grows up into a professional performer, and works through her crush on Alto, Alto gets what he wanted - to fly Valkyries - but he keeps growing and even ends up in a leadership role with the UN Spacy, even Michael has his grief over his sister and tragic crush on Klan to deal with. There's just so much less substance to Delta.
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Sep 29, 2019 23:36
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Ranzear posted:And the best part is how quickly one can catch that somebody's take is entirely based on Verhoeven's interpretations of a book he didn't read, mostly the moment they bother to mention fascism. They also 100% of the time think a dude from Argentina named Rico is white. And the usual confusion of "portrays" with "promotes".
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Jan 16, 2020 04:14
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I'ma just leave this right here, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spGpo6tH-Fc
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May 26, 2020 08:23
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Gripweed posted:But on a more positive note, the new Ultraman is a mecha show I think I've seen that robot on Futurama. The first epsiode was okaaaaaay, but I can't bring myself to watch the second episode, even in the hopes that the director was replaced; it's got a lot of terrible in it.
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Jun 21, 2020 21:36
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Omnicrom posted:I'm in the same boat. Grace in the TV series was an incredibly good villain, one of the best out and out unapologetically bad people I've ever seen in a series. She was a compelling, well used, well done person who was just The Worst. If she was similarly good through/during/after her redemption that would be one thing but she really isn't. The decision to turn her face and play her as just a puppet for the literally faceless conspiracy turned her from an incredible villain into a person who dies tragically, and there are many better examples of the latter than there are the former. Wings of Good by had some amazing twists, but Grace was far better as a literally galaxy-brain villain trying to take over everyone's mind.
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Aug 18, 2020 16:26
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Anshu posted:I strongly disagree. The only worthwhile part is the music. That still leaves a LOT of room for the movies to be good, which they are. They're very different plot-wise from the series, but are still an authentic Macross Frontier experience. You should watch, and love, both the series and the movies. Honestly, some of the twists in the movies are hilariously awesome, like the SMS gang putting on a concert as a distraction for prison-breaking Sheryl, who has been sentenced to death for espionage. C'mon, what's not to love ? e. Mode 7 posted:[*] Love that Hikaru, while being a pilot, is not suddenly a savant at piloting the VF-102, and is not some sort of immediate combat god. He freaks out when combat starts, can't pilot the VF for poo poo when it transforms into a robot, and goes into shock after his first fight. Starting a tradition that Frontier continues: even the unready protagonists are qualified pilots the first time they get in the cockpit of a VF. No whiny teenagers who suddenly prove to be mecha piloting savants in Macross ! Even Hikaru in Delta can make a cargo-handling mech dance before he lands in a VF-31 cockpit. mllaneza fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Sep 19, 2020 |
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Sep 19, 2020 05:53
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chiasaur11 posted:The fights look... alright. To be fair, that's pretty good considering the era and the techniques used. A mech anime with CG fights from 2003 that reaches passible is a wonder after seeing Gundam Igloo. But they aren't the draw they were when it first came out, which kind of takes away the main thing that got people recommending a relatively dull show. So... better than two, worse than plus so far. Although the scene of Shin hijacking a crashed mech in a rage was definitely an awkward one. Macross Frontier actually helps explain Macross Zero. I mean, it's still confusing as he'll, but it's less confusing now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnBgMIYA874 The Zero stuff is around ep 12, and some later references.
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Oct 6, 2020 01:58
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chiasaur11 posted:The younger one. The older girl vanishes into the universe or something. Some really severely hosed up poo poo had to have
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Oct 12, 2020 01:26
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drrockso20 posted:the probably final Rebuild of Evangelion film now titled Evangelion 3.0+1.0 Thrice Upon A Time has a release date and new trailer that just came out; About loving time.
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Oct 17, 2020 19:37
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Weird BIAS posted:e: also timing and availability for where I could watch it meant og wasn't available to me at the time. As a nice followup to OG Macross, here is my periodic reminder that Frontier is on YouTube in 720. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnBgMIYA874
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Jan 30, 2021 18:26
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Relin posted:wha, a clip show 3 eps after a previous clip show? how many more are there in macross None in Delta or Frontier. e. Frontier has kinda half an episode of clip show, but from Zero.
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Feb 8, 2021 09:16
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chiasaur11 posted:I think I like Plus more, just as a whole stylistic thing, but Do You Remember Love is Macross at its Macrossiest, playing up the music, the love triangle, and the fighter jet mechs to the nth in a couple of glorious hours. You'll love Frontier. Two singers worth of music, lots of transforming fighters fighting space kaiju, and a love triangle that has some really sweet and touching moments.
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Feb 22, 2021 04:40
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:delta was two people who were completely into each other from the start and then there were other women in the vicinity. With our heroes senior officer having feelings for him. Ick, no. Yeah, Frontier doesn't have a full-on competitive triangle. Ranka is crushing hard on Alto, but I think even she realizes it's sweet but never going anywhere. He's not just a couple years older, she's been raised by a protective older brother, and Alto has been living on his own for at least a year before the show starts. That adds weight to the domestic situation towards the end of the show; it's two people with a really broken family base, trying to make a go of it. Sheryl gets PTSD triggers from sitting down to eat a family meal at the table, Alto probably never got taught to keep house. He's a pilot on active duty, she's actively dying from a degenerative neurological conditions, but they're both putting the work in at home and it's something that I respect from both characters. But it's an odd domestic pairing. I don't really read Sheryl/Alto as a pair of young lovers. Given her condition I don't see their relationship as sexual. But they care for each other and prop each other up to keep going. More than friends, maybe less than lovers, their relationship flows organically from their personalities and histories. It's a realistic touch and helps keep Frontier in the top tier of shows I've watched.
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Feb 22, 2021 07:40
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Lily Catts posted:oh you sweet summer child I always leave that part out when I'm selling someone on a Macross series. "Oh yeah, love triangle, space fighters fighting space kaiju, lots of pop music, a beloved character gets horribly murdered..." Yeah, no.
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Feb 24, 2021 09:36
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Pyronic posted:Delta was my first Macross series and me and a friend were SO hyped to watch it every week but it just falls apart horribly in like the last quarter for some reason i've never been able to figure out. Like it felt simultaneously rushed but also resolving very little of consequence. I'm hoping the movie coming out this year answers some questions. The series compilation movie was pretty decent but (for obvious time reasons) wildly changed some aspects of the plot. Look at it this way, the average quality of Macross shows you watch can only go up ! Frontier and Do You Remember Love are both on YouTube.
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Feb 25, 2021 02:34
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Walkure is okay. My big problem with Delta is how the main characters realize their dreams about 4 episodes in, leaving you with 20+ with no growth. Well, Mirage comes to realize that crushing on a younger subordinate is bad.
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Mar 1, 2021 07:47
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Arcsquad12 posted:I just read this whole thread in about two days so now it's 3 am and I'm wondering why you don't see more western properties digging into mecha for shows. They're well represented in video games and tabletop with Battletech and 40K titans but in film and television you're options are incredibly limited if you don't care for Transformers. First off, The Black is far, far, superior to the Godzilla anime. Don't let visual similarities put you off. Next, we've had some amazing 40K fan video in recent years. Power armor is like a small mech, right ? This video is by one artist. Concept, modeling, animation, and especially sound design. No, we aren't expected to know what's really going on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVXEYksoE6c And this has titans in it, those definitely are mechs. An Imperator-class counts as whatever it wants to. An artist took the audio book of Helsreach and animated it. The style evolves as he goes through it, but it started good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKMdHfOC7VQ The really, really good news is that both of those artists now work for Games Workshop Animation. The Helsreach creator is doing a Blood Angels series. The Astartes creator... they should just give him as much money, drugs, and equipment as he needs and let him do whatever the hell he wants. And there's more, GW is getting into animation and they're doing it by pulling in the top fan talent. It's a brilliant move, and a rare one for any IP holder go outside for creative talent. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/03/10/introducing-the-next-wave-of-warhammer-animations/ https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/03/18/hammer-and-bolter-spectacular-new-screenshots-from-the-animated-anthology/
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Mar 19, 2021 03:22
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ImpAtom posted:Yeah, pretty much any time I hear about GW these days it is either them being horrible money-grubbing bastards or actively housing literal Nazis. They told off the chuds in the fan base; get along or GTFO. Definitely still moneygrubbing though.
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Mar 19, 2021 03:39
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Arcsquad12 posted:They do need to do more stuff with Titans and Knights to get my mecha vibes going. Titanicus is the peak, followed by Helsreach but there actually aren't many stories that focus heavily on the God Machines. The 30K era has some. Titandeath is a massive engine war at the gates of Sol System. Mortis will be the 5th Siege of Terra book and is due soon. That'll be about Legio Mortis, who reportedly were dicks even before they turned traitor.
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Mar 19, 2021 16:49
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chiasaur11 posted:Macross having PMCs as generic good guys fighting against enemies that the regular military is also fighting is the weird bit. It's not always weird. The PMC in Frontier are specialists in dealing with the alien threat they face, fully briefed on highly sensitive material, and specially equipped to handle the threat. it's a very successful exercise in compartmentalizing deeply secret material. Nobody in the actual military or government has know much more than "if X happens, call these people". SMS is backed by a corporation that makes highly advanced weapons and one of their pilots, Luka, is part of the family than runs that corp. This is probably why they have VF-25s before the military does. The adult pilots have just been chilling since the Vajra murked that expeditionary fleet, maintaining readiness and training the next generation of anti-Vajra specialists.
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Apr 10, 2021 07:19
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:the ova was at least better than any of the cg movies. Oh God those were disappointing. "Appleseed ! CGI ! WTF is this poo poo ?"
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Apr 22, 2021 05:36
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Remember the new Macross/Robotech licensing deal ? Only two months later and there are new production runs of original series Macross kits hitting US retailers, https://www.gundamplanet.com/1-200-destroid-monster.html https://www.gundamplanet.com/1-72-tactical-pod-regult-standard-type.html https://www.gundamplanet.com/1-72-attack-destroid-spartan.html https://www.gundamplanet.com/1-72-anti-air-destroid-defender.html https://www.gundamplanet.com/1-48-vf-1j-a-valkyrie-vermilion-platoon.html Something may have shaken loose in regards the Battletech "Unseen Mechs" as well, HLJ just put these up for pre-order: https://www.hlj.com/combat-armor-dougram-40th-anniversary-collector-s-box-dys50008 So that's all very strange and wonderful.
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Jun 5, 2021 04:02
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Arcsquad12 posted:I posted about this in the general discussion thread but with the HG stuff ending is there a chance that the Manga Entertainment dub of Mafross Plus could be re-released with the original sound mix for episode 4? I'm cautiously optimistic while also thinking that the sky's the limit. They got newly-produced product on shelves in the US in weeks after the deal was signed. Media production takes longer, but I wouldn't be surprised by anything up to and including domestic Blue Ray releases with official subs for the whole series.
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Jun 5, 2021 07:26
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So the new hotness for 2021 is... <opens envelope> ...Macross 7 ! Wait, what ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbXAXhsMOEI Yeah, me too. But this DID drop today so here we are.
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Jun 26, 2021 03:56
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hannibal posted:Has Macross 7 ever had any official English subtitles/translations in the past? This has English subtitles. Not what I was expecting, but hey I liked Macross 7 so I'll take it. Right. Those are official subtitles for Macross 7. I never thought I'd see the day. Just two months since the deal was made and this, plus the model kit re-releases have already happened. More must be coming. Update on the kits, I've got a Regult battlepod and a Destroid Defender. Every date on the box or the instruction manual says 1982. But they were in New shrinkwrap and everything is in pristine condition. These weren't in a warehouse somewhere, these are new production. So someone kept at least the molds for the kits, if not the plates to print the box and instructions as well. You could make new boxes identical to the original release without too much effort, but getting everything together as fast as they did is impressive.
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Jun 28, 2021 07:07
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Speaking of Dougram, https://www.hlj.com/combat-armor-dougram-40th-anniversary-collector-s-box-dys50008
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Jul 6, 2021 08:32
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