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Born Muslim popping in, haven't read most of the thread other than the OP and the last page. In terms of my own faith I'm not overly religious now but of my 3 siblings I'm easily the one with the most faith. I drink alcohol pretty regularly though rarely get drunk and never go on benders. I've had girlfriends and (  ) have had sex many, many times with several different women who didn't mind touching my filthy terrist penis.  My parents pray regularly (now... My dad only started after Hajj a few years ago), I do not... I pretty much only pray if I remember to on holidays, it's Ramadan and I'm actually fasting (becoming more hit or miss the further into my professional life I get, for more info see The Goon Doctor), someone has died, or I'm about to take an exam. Despite all this, I consider myself to be a pretty good Muslim and don't doubt that God probably will, too. I may not be the best there is, but what kind of goon would I be if I wasn't a chronic underachiever in all aspects of my life.  With regards to major vs minor sins, there's actually a pretty good Hadith I like to relate to people when they ask about what Allah is like, according to Islam: A mass murderer (or something of the sort, let's call him a Bad, Bad Man) is old and full of regret, but it's at a loss for what to do about it. He happens to overhear a sermon by the Prophet and is inspired and moved, so he approaches the Prophet afterward and asks him what he can do to be forgiven for his terrible crimes and be forgiven. The Prophet basically is like, "uhhh, I dunno man, you're pretty loving terrible, come back next week and maybe I'll have an answer?" So the guy (who also converted and tried to do his best to be a good Muslim, although who knows maybe he was just so used to stomping on a baby with cleats before breakfast that it took him a bit to change his routine) waits a week, comes back, chills in the back with all the cool kids listening to the sermon in disguise (he was a Known rear end in a top hat and didn't want his presence to distract, you know, like Ben Carson showing up to a Grade School Geography Bee so he can bone up in preparation for future questions about foreign policy) and again approaches the Prophet and asks what he should do. Prophet still doesn't know what the gently caress and gives him the runaround (OR SO YOU ARE MEANT TO BELIEVE... SUSPENSE!). So another week passes and Dickhead again does the routine for a third time, hoping the Prophet might have an answer for him, and this time the Prophet pulls a loving Dumbledore and is like, "you passed the test! I had to be certain you were sincere in your belief and intent. Honestly, you're hosed around here, buddy, everyone knows you're Captain Baby Stomper and it'll be really hard for you to turn over a new leaf because the story is unclear or maybe Fuzz is just fuzzy ( ) on the details and you were actually a wanted criminal, but who gives a poo poo it's irrelevant to the point of the story. You should get the gently caress out of here and go somewhere else and change your name and start over and stomp on fewer babies... ideally no babies."So the guy follows the Prophet's advice to basically go into Muslim Witness Protection and gives away all of his material belongings he wouldn't need for the trip as Zakat (specific form of God approved charity) and starts trekking across the desert. Several days into this journey, he drops dead because he was old and Saudi Arabia is a lovely desert. So the two angels that come to take you come down, one for good people, one for bad. I forget their names and honestly who gives a poo poo, it's not important. They get into a fight because the Sinner Angel (you know what I mean, he's not a bad dude with wings, his passengers are just all pieces of poo poo) is like, "hello, this dude stomped on babies as part of his morning constitutional, why are we even having this conversation what the gently caress," but the Nice Bro Angel is like, "Yeah but he asked Allah for forgiveness and really was trying to change, that should count for something stop being such a hater." So they literally argue for a whole day while buzzards and poo poo are undoubtedly feasting on Dickhead al-McGee's bloated corpse, and at the end of the day they still can't decide so they're like, "gently caress this, let's ask the boss," so they go back to heaven and ask Allah what they should do. Allah was probably smoking a bowl at the time (gently caress you that's not blasphemy, I don't he gives a poo poo) and offered up the most stoner solution in the history of ever: measure the distances from the guy's body to his point of origin (presumably Medina or Mecca, for those of you that pay attention) and the distance to his destination (let's call it Gullibleville, since apparently they weren't going to realize Admiral Baby Stomper was in their midst), whichever city he was closer to will decide which angel gets to take him. I'm not going to explain which city represents which because gently caress you, this is basic logic and I'm phone posting. (gonna assume there are types because SwiftKey is an rear end in a top hat) Here's the catch: while Allah is explaining this and before the angels can come back and bust out the Holy Tape Measure, Allah picks up the guy's corpse and moves it closer to his destination, so ultimately the Good Angel gets to take him. Now I will preface my commentary on this slightly paraphrased (only slightly, I swear ) story to say that generally I'm of the, "ignore most Hadith" school of thought because ultimately who knows if they're legit and who really cares... God gave us an instruction manual (the Quran) and told us to follow that, what the Prophet did or did not do is completely irrelevant because he was just a man and was (self admittedly) fallible, and ultimately the only person responsible for your own soul is you, and saying, "well I did it slightly differently because he did it that way," is a stupid excuse that Allah will probably not be impressed by since, as said, he literally gave you a codified instruction manual to follow. That said, I always like this story because it demonstrates how important (good) intention is and just how beneficent and merciful God really is (which is the major patch note of Monotheism 3.0, aka Islam) all in one go. In Islam, the only unforgivable sin is not believing in God. Everything else can and will eventually be forgiven, even if you go to Hell. Believer in Hell? Eventually you'll get out once you've served your time. Another interesting thing is that, not unlike the US Justice System, you can only be punished for something you did once, assuming the punishment fit the crime. Interesting aside, both Thomas Jefferson and James Madison were known to both own and have read the Quran, and a lot of American history scholars believe that (among other things) is very possible that rule about not being tried for the same crime twice came directly from the Quran. But anyway, this also explains why traditional Muslim punishments are horribly brutal... they're totally just trying to give you leg (not a hand ) up on the Day of Judgment, they swear! But yeah, hope that was equal parts enlightening and entertaining to some of you. I've got other fun stories and such, if anyone has any specific questions. Just address them to me by name in your part so the Awful app highlights it. And if some of you Muslim goons are gonna be all judgy towards me, go worry about your own situation because I don't give a poo poo about your opinion. The Quran specifically states that ultimately Allah will judge us, so your opinion doesn't mean poo poo and I can practice my own Islam the way I see fit to, as long as I'm not totally paint to others to do the same, which I am not, at all. You have to decide for yourself how to practice your religion, no one can do it for you. Edit: Haledjian posted:One thing I'm interested in--you say the Qur'an doesn't suggest imposing sharia. How do you see passages wherein Mohammed, eg, requires Jews to pay an (arguably exorbitant) tax if they don't convert to Islam? I understand non-Abrahamic faiths didn't have the tax option and were required to convert but I'm less familiar with that. Obviously most people don't believe that type of thing should be practiced today, but if the central figure of Islam imposes Islam via force or coercion, what is the moderate reading of that type of thing? I'll play devil's advocate and point out that many European nations, including Denmark and Switzerland, still have a Church Tax and you can't actually opt out of them. That is basically the exact same thing as what you're asking about. Just saying. Fuzz fucked around with this message at 09:54 on Nov 24, 2015 |
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Nov 24, 2015 09:33
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BattyKiara posted:This one may be more a cultural thing than an Islamic thing, but why would "Blue eyed and lefthanded!" be used as an insult against someone? As in "Stop acting like you are blue eyed and lefthanded!" And what's with the blue eye amulets hanging here and there? Do they have a special meaning? Purely cultural, has nothing to do with Islam. The Evil eyes supposedly ward off evil of something like that.
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Nov 24, 2015 16:09
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Fizzil posted:Here in the UAE, a female security person handles it, and they take off the burqa in a seperate room and take a picture of their face. Passports do not allow pictures of people with burqas on, and i'm pretty sure this is the same in Saudi Arabia, but don't take my word for it, i heard it from other saudis. Niqab is 100% an old Arab custom being shoehorned into the religion. It's like debating the religious significance of Christmas Trees as they relate to the Bible, they literally have nothing to do with anything. Case in point: at the time of Pericles in Ancient Greece, married Athenian women similarly had to wear veils and couldn't leave their homes without a male escort. We never hear about that because oh wait, they were white people and they invented democracy (only for men, and only if you weren't a slave and actually were a citizen) so it's TOTALLY DIFFERENT (it's not). It was a common custom in a lot of the Middle East, and Arabs clung to the tradition and ran with it to a ridiculous degree. A lot of the modern Sharia insanity and nonsense actually data back to Ottoman rule, when the Ottomans, who were not particularly religious themselves, decided to use the religion as a means of control and codified a bunch of bullshit under the guise of Sharia law, because it allowed them to better exert control on the huge territory they owned. Something that hasn't really been touched upon in this thread and is such a huge and massive component to the current misunderstanding of Islam is the whole darkie factor. If the Quran had been revealed to some white guy, we'd be having very different opinions and discussions about the religion, but because it's some "heathen darkie religion" let's not take it seriously or even give it any thought before casting wide assumptions and aspersions about both it and its followers. Fuzz fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Nov 26, 2015 |
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Nov 26, 2015 00:56
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Bolocko posted:Of course, but I'm still curious how Fuzz thinks responses would shift. When the Crusades happened, the Dark Age Europeans went to the Holy Land and realized: "Holy poo poo! While we've been squatting in the rubble of Rome, these guys have actually made progress! Look at all this technology and the advancements these people have made in engineering, medicine, navigation, philosophy, heck, they even have a great numbering system and this whole new type of math that lets us solve all sorts of problems! We should probably adopt some of this stuff and bring it back with us!"  Jump forward to when they came home: "Those filthy darkie heathens are unwashed and uncivilized barbarians. Also we liberated all of these wonders of knowledge and technology from their uncouth hands."  Jump forward to the Renaissance, at which point the Ottomans had already ruined everything: "Look at those mongrel hordes scraping out a living and rolling in their own filth in the desert! What savages."  If you don't think the race of the people involved had a major effect on the reception of their faith and culture, you have a poor understanding of human nature. Yes, Christianity had already taken hold of Europe by the balls, but Hinduism and Buddhism had similarly been staunchly followed in South Asia and the Far East, but due to lots of trade and an overall more open minded viewpoint with regard to race (mainly on the part of the Mongols), Islam gained a foothold, spread, and flourished, because the people following demonstrated that yes, they were educated and cultured, but also the receiving culture was more open and receptive to what they had to say because they weren't looking down the nose of racism and cultural superiority (even though objectively speaking, the East was far more advanced than Europe and therefore Europe had even less of a reason to feel superior in the hand scheme of things) It's not a statement against white people, but revisionist history is dictated by the victors, and by and large the modem world culture has been shaped and defined by white people, and it's reflected in the current shock and surprise at all them filthy terrist Muslims that apparently live in the US, when we've been there since the country was founded and fought for the US in WW1 and 2 and for 200 years no one gave a poo poo about the Muslims in their midst until the Cold War drove the US to start loving around in Muslim countries and having the CIA assassinate people or am militias to fight our wars. Then the Ayatollah raised its head and took some hostages and poo poo has just kept going south ever since, with the entire religion taking the blame for a bunch of radical assholes.
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Nov 26, 2015 09:51
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Haledjian posted:One of the things about English is that etymolygy doesn't dictate meaning. No credible English dictionary will define the word the way you're defining it because that's not what it means. This is correct.
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Nov 26, 2015 20:35
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HEY GAL posted:which you do; the keys to the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem were turned over to a Muslim family to administer in Ottoman times, probably because the Ottomans knew they couldn't trust us not to be massive douchebags to one another over the church But at the same time in the Hagia Sofia they painted over a lot of the frescoes depicting Jesus, so as usual there are examples of both. There are lovely people in every religion. Often those lovely people end up in positions of authority and power. It sucks. The whole anti-Jewish sentiment is the same way. Most versions of the Bible actually have a lot more antisemitic (Yeah I said it, shutup) stuff in them than the Quran, and Muslims were actually living rather peacefully with Jews in what is now Israel for almost a thousand years. It wasn't until Ottoman rule that there was forced resettlement of Jews, and even then there wasn't that much tension. Most of it is from the last 200 years and is purely political in nature, if you actually look at the religions in terms of a continuum (Monotheism 1.0 - 3.0) Islam and Judaism are closer to each other than either of them is to modern Christianity. It's like Judaism is Windows 98 and Islam is XP. Christianity was ME. If God was Microsoft, he made a good thing, then tried something a little different that ended up being a little too different, so then they converted it back to something much more like the first iteration. Yes I realize this is a dumb analogy but I'm half asleep and on a phone.
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Nov 28, 2015 17:22
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Yeah, you're actually supposed to bury them before sundown of the next day, officially speaking. It's literally exactly the same as it is in Judaism, and a Khatam is really similar to sitting Shiva.
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Nov 29, 2015 16:52
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It ends up basically being anything that's carnivorous or omnivorous. You can eat herbivores, that's it.
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Dec 5, 2015 15:53
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Religion can't change lovely cultural mores. Film at 11.
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Dec 7, 2015 17:27
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Tendai posted:This honestly baffled me; if the reports on how openly they were loving around with explosives and leaving guns around are close to true, there is no way someone should have just been all "Oh this is a normal amount of weaponry and activity." Was she scared or was she "meh, not my business?" about it, is the question that tends to come up for me. I don't know. It was also her son. She would not be the first mom to turn a blind eye to crazy poo poo. This is why parental testimony is never valid for character witnesses.
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Dec 10, 2015 16:37
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A lot of Sharia law, however, is steeped in pre-Islamic Arab custom, which is why so much of it has no basis in the Quran.
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Dec 23, 2015 16:48
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Positive Optimyst posted:But a lot of Sharia law is based on the Sahih Hadith, correct? Almost all of the dominion over women stuff is heavily steeped in ancient Arab customs. If you actually read the Quran Islam was pretty revolutionary for its time in how it empowered women. Excluding the 4 wives thing since that's all anyone ever wants to talk about.
Fuzz fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Dec 24, 2015 |
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Dec 24, 2015 00:42
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Lassitude posted:A casual look at Wikipedia makes it clear that there's some real debate on the issue. Indeed, she may in fact have been as old as 12 when he started banging her. Whew! Anyway, truthfully I don't really care. People during that time period loved marrying children if they could. Certainly Muhammad would be no different. And none of the other religions are devoid of this kind of reprehensible garbage, either. So don't think I'm picking on Islam here. But I certainly place Muhammad having multiple wives far, far, far below aspects of the Islamic religion such as death to apostates, the sexism, Muhammad being the inspiration for Walder "Tight Fit" Frey, and so on. How old do you think most European girls were when they were having kids in the Middle Ages, a full 500 years later? Guess what, around 12-15. As soon as a girl hit puberty, she was fair game and her parents would sell her off like expensive cattle. That was practically universal in how it cropped up in so many different cultures. 18 being considered an 'adult' is a super modern concept... Barely 150 years old, on a global scale. But hey, white people can do no wrong, amirite? When OTHER people do it it's filthy and barbaric, let's just say it like it is. tl:dr: Selectively bashing a culture you clearly know little about does you no good when what you're bashing wasn't even very unique to that culture. Fuzz fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Dec 24, 2015 |
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Dec 24, 2015 22:00
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Immortan posted:
All things considered, he took Arab society from having basically unlimited wives, women not inheriting anything from their parents or husbands if there was a son, not being able to own land without a man having bought it first, not being able to run a business unless their husband had started it first (Khadija's deal), not being able to divorce their husbands, not being able to travel without a male chaperone, and not being able to vote, to one where all of those things were permitted... within not even one generation. To give perspective, women couldn't even vote in the US until after WW2, and going from unlimited wives to just four seems a bit more culturally jarring than, say, legislating that you can only own SOME types of guns, but not all of them, something we still haven't managed, and that's just for some loving guns, not an age old marital practice that many noble families and entire cities were based around. Don't confuse modern Arab society with anything Muhammad was pushing, because it's become so hosed up and corrupt and it's not actually supported if you read the rules laid down in the Quran, let alone just look at the Prophet's own life, particularly with regard to his first wife. Not being an apologist, but carte blanche saying he was a terrible patriarchal monster is a bit of the opposite extreme and isn't really supported except by post-Ottoman Arab society. Fuzz fucked around with this message at 11:01 on Dec 26, 2015 |
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Dec 26, 2015 10:57
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Semi relevant to yesterday, on an aside, but since Jesus is so prominent in the Quran (he and Mary account for the bulk of storytelling in the Quran), a lot of Muslims actually celebrate Christmas in the US, though it's more about fasting and then eating a big dinner than gifts or any of that other Roman stuff. 
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Dec 26, 2015 13:47
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Yeah I dunno what the gently caress, when I was a kid we just sang the drat songs and my parents never wrote any over the top letters about it. No one cares, God knows what's in your heart.
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Dec 26, 2015 14:43
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Yeah, I'm tuning out after the ignore drama. If someone has a question for a pretty moderate (I hate that term) American Muslim, PM me to check here and post. Happy New Year!
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Dec 27, 2015 22:47
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I like Islam's explanation for Satan and Hell, among other things. There's a simple logic to it that Christianity (Catholicism particularly) never vibes with, for me. Judaism is the other one that resonated with me, but that's because Islam and Judaism are basically the same religion in more ways than not, which is why the animosity that exists in the last 100 or so years between the two religions is just really sad. As for Creationism vs Evolution, I've yet to meet a (normal, non-batshit) Imam that has said my take on things is necessarily wrong... I have yet to meet anyone that has my viewpoint, but whatever. I'm a physician and firmly believe in evolution, mind you, and I was pretty atheist for awhile in college and after until medical school, when I learned way more about biology than most and it pretty much reaffirmed my faith in at least some sort of higher power, so why not God?
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Dec 28, 2015 19:13
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If God doesn't like butt sex, oh well. If it's a sin, maybe he'll forgive it. If premarital sex is a sin, maybe he'll forgive me for it, too. I'm a pretty good person otherwise, and believe in God, so either way, even if I end up going to Hell for sinning more than good deeding, eventually I'll get out because I believe in God and that's the only unforgivable sin. I can't tell if God will compare us against all the other people of our Era or if he'll just have a universal benchmark for all people, be they stone age tribal people that lived before any of his books were revealed or if they live on a moonbase in some other galaxy and have to pray facing the Stargate that got them there. I don't really give a poo poo. All I can do is be a good person and live my life. That includes being friends with gay people and not giving a poo poo about what they do in private, because just like a hetero couple it's none of my goddamn business, same way if I'm loving my girlfriend every night who I have no intention of marrying and we use condoms every time, it's none of your goddamn business, either. God will make of it what he will. I give money to poor people, am generally a good person, have helped save several hundred lives in the last few years, and otherwise have tried to help people live healthier lives. Yes, I've also been involved when errors were made by someone, and people died. Far fewer of those cases than the others, obviously, but still, sometimes I wonder if I could have done something differently or if I'm either partly or wholly responsible for someone's death. Do I go flog myself about it? No, I just keep living my life, trying to do the best I can because I'm flawed because I'm human, and no one is perfect, not even the Prophet was. Neither was Jesus, according to the Quran, he blinded people for pissing him off when he was a kid, among other things. That's a story you only find in the Quran since we don't deify him because he was just a dude that happened to need miracles to get people to believe him. Fuzz fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Jan 3, 2016 |
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Jan 3, 2016 14:29
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JustinMorgan posted:The mention of cave people made me think of a question. Muslims believe in heaven and hell, correct? What about purgatory? What about all those people who lived and died before Mohammed? If there's no original sin, do babies automatically go to heaven? No one goes to heaven until the Day of Judgment. In the interim, everyone sits around in what is essentially a cosmic waiting room (purgatory) where those that have sinned can, in fact, be punished for those sins so they aren't accountable for them on the Day of Judgment. Those who lived before the revelations had little choice in the matter, and thus are not damned to Hell because they didn't have a choice in the matter of knowing about God. Babies fall into this category, as do really small children (under age 12), because in Islam God is very forgiving... the short prayer that you read before reading from the Quran does, in fact, translate to, "In the name of God, the most Beneficent, the most Merciful." If you are Jewish, you will go to Heaven if you were a good person. This is because you believe in God. If you were Christian, you will (arguably) go to Heaven if you were a good person. This is because you believe in God. The arguable nature is that the vast majority of modern Christian sects believe Jesus was the literal son of God, which is actually back into that unforgivable sin, in Islam. Further, even if you sin and are damned to Hell on the Day of Judgment, if you believe in God, one day you will be freed and returned to Heaven, because ultimately there is a time limit on all punishments and God will forgive all sins, except for willfully failing to believe in him and, even worse, actively subverting others away from him. That is the only sin that will truly get you a one way ticket to the worst place imaginable (aka a prison in Detroit). The above reasons are why the Muslims generally didn't force people to convert in their conquered lands, be they in the Middle East, Northern Africa, the Subcontinent, or Spain. There was no need to convert a people that were already believers, although strategically this obviously ended up biting them in the rear end hard, especially in Spain and India. It's why you don't see Muslim missionaries nowadays outside of fundamentalist whackjob wahabi cultist assholes... Islam teaches us to live by example, and lead our lives in a respectable and clean manner, and if we are good others will see the merits of our ways and if they are interested, they can be educated on the topic. That is how the Prophet converted people, and it's the only true way to win someone's heart and mind to a belief system. There is no arguing to convince people, as some people in this thread seem to think there is... y do your thing, I do my thing, and if you see my thing (  ) and are interested in learning about how it works (), I can show you how it works. ()The pursuit of knowledge and the preservation of all human knowledge is actually one of the major tenets of Islam... it's why the Caliphate preserved all of that Plutarch, Tacitus, Aristotle, etc so that we have it all today, in the original Latin/Greek. It's why we still have such a functional understanding of life in Ancient Egypt, their monuments, tombs, etc were all preserved. It's why there's such a big push in (most) Muslim families to pursue knowledge and educate yourself... it's literally the same mindset as Judaism, which is again why I say Judaism and Islam are, in many ways, the same religion. All theshit going on with ISIL, Al-Qaeda, etc is just a straight up travesty and explicitly goes against what the religion teaches us to do. Blame it on the loving Saudis... one of the greatest assets of Islam is that it's not centralized and you only need to pray to God and he will hear you... one of the greatest flaws of Islam is that it's not centralized, so those in need of guidance mistakenly turn to Mecca for their spiritual direction, and Mecca can, often has been, and is currently ruled by a bunch of lovely rear end in a top hat fuckheads. 
Fuzz fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 04:26
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Fizzil posted:I just dont get where people get this idea where if you sin its all over for you, for the longest time in my life i was taught that people are judged for everything in the afterlife, but the good they have done can outweigh their sins, and this is why there is minor and major sins, its obviously classified and weighted. The basic things in Islam to be considered a muslim is to pray, fast, give to charity and go to hajj, but what if a homosexual muslim did all these would he still go to hell for it because he engaged in sodomy? My view: Nope. General Muslim view: ... Maybe? There's a Hadith in Islam, one of the few that's pretty good - It's based on the idea of good and bad as a currency that is counted (apparently God works for Bioware): If you think of doing a bad deed, it's as if you did nothing at all. If you think of doing a good deed, it's as if you did it. If you do a bad deed, it's remembered. If you do a good deed, ten times its value is earned. Now who the hell really knows about God's exchange rate, maybe inflation has hosed it all up, maybe the currencies have different base values, whatever. The underlying point, and I think it's the major selling point that is what got (and even now gets) people to convert is the belief that God is loving and wants us to succeed. So much so that the rules are so lopsided he's basically cheating on our behalf. He can and will forgive you your sins, you need only ask it of him. You do this by asking him directly, on your own, not through some intermediary that will ascribe a man made penance. You won't know if he listened, mind you, but you can only try to be better and lead a better life... that's the goal of every Muslim. I think that's a major thing people are getting confused and stuck on, as I read this thread. YHWH in Judaism is loving terrifying and will smite your entire lineage and crush entire cities if you don't honor him, and the non-chosen people are straight hosed. Jehovah in Christianity holds the sins of Adam and Eve against you such that you're born a sinner and have to struggle to be good because he will punish the gently caress out of you for eternity if you aren't. Islam, by comparison, basically has Buddy God... he'll forgive literally everything (except the one thing) and wants you to succeed... if you overall are a good person, guess what? He'll probably forgive that other poo poo and look the other way, because he knows you aren't perfect (Islam's dichotomy from Christianity on the nature and role of Satan basically demonstrates this) and at the end of the day he just wants you to do your best and will love you even if and when you make mistakes. There's a clear evolution of God over the three religions, it's why Islam is Monotheism 3.0. He's basically a loving parent, not an omnipotent tyrant that demands absolute adherence to his code or you will be crushed... that's totally not Islam's style, and it's why there's so much Muslim philosophy throughout the ages and it's okay to discuss and examine the religion from an academic standpoint. We're supposed to question, but Faith, by it's very nature, doesn't have verifiable proof, and that's intentional... It wouldn't require faith otherwise. God could show up and do a bunch of awesome poo poo and demand we believe in him, sure... But real life isn't D&D, and therefore we don't fall into the logical trap of D&D where if you know there's literally hundreds of gods, how the hell can you only worship one? Same way if you know there is a God, how could you not worship him? He wants you to go the extra mile and believe, that's literally the ONLY thing you're required to do... The rest is icing. tl;dr: Islam in a nutshell: believe in God, because he believes in you. 
Fuzz fucked around with this message at 11:48 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 11:43
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Flagrant Abuse posted:I might have missed this, but on the "who does and doesn't go to heaven" discussion, what about people of non-Abrahamic faiths, or no faith at all, who nonetheless lived good lives? Will the Dalai Lama go to heaven, for example? Don't believe in God, no love for you. That's the ONLY requirement to go to Heaven in Islam. Literally the ONLY one. Smoking Crow posted:What do mainstream Muslims think of the Nation of Islam and the Five Percenters Nation is total bullshit and perverts Muslim belief. Five Percenters are even more bullshit and literally worship a dude as if he was the embodiment of God, which literally goes against everything Islam stands for. People can worship and believe in either is they want, I don't really give a poo poo. But they shouldn't call themselves Muslim and none of what they believe is Islam.
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Jan 6, 2016 03:33
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Lassitude posted:In what way has Islam been a social justice movement in the last several centuries? The Golden Age of Islam is ancient history, unfortunately. I'm not aware of any social justice movement spawning progressive changes which have originated among Muslim groups. Certainly the Nation of Islam was a part of the Civil Rights Movement in the US, but I'm not sure that counts. Otherwise, I don't believe Islam being progressive relative to the 8th century, allowing women to own/inherit property and so on, suffices for cred as a social justice movement until the end of time. As they say, what have you done for me lately? In British India they made a lot of progress toward overturning the completely archaic caste system... all of which ended up being undone by Gandhi and is a large part of why Hindus have so much animosity toward Islam. Unfortunately, the caste system has no place in Muslim society, because shunning and treating entire groups of people simply because of their lineage or because they have a deformity totally flies in the face of the Islamic ideal of everyone being equal and deserving fair treatment. That said, a lot of modern Hindus don't actually follow it, especially in the West, but the higher castes still want to enforce it for obvious reasons. Fuzz fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Jan 6, 2016 |
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Jan 6, 2016 17:32
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Lassitude posted:That is interesting and I wasn't aware of it, but it seems as though the caste system has also been embraced by a certain percentage of Muslims in India as well. For example, this fellow writes here: http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00ambedkar/ambedkar_partition/410.html Ironically, Gandhi is generally agreed to have also been a pedophile, forcing his followers to send their daughters to him in the night to sate his, "shivering fits." He also thought black people were subhuman and apartheid wasn't a terrible idea. Way more recent than Muhammad, and yet people still deify and turn a blind eye to all that stuff, even in the West. (especially in the West...) Not trying to bash the guy, he did a lot of good getting my parents and grandparents out from under British oppression... but yeah, that's always intrigued me that a lot of the people that point fingers at ancient religious figures will still have admiration for Gandhi despite the fact that, by all accounts, he was a slimy racist rear end in a top hat.
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Jan 6, 2016 18:20
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Panniculus Rift posted:Sounds like a lovely form of equality to me, but I guess as long as they get their reward in Jannah they should be happy with living as slaves on earth The slavery and female oppression stuff is Arab, it has very little to do with Islam. See also: multiple Muslim countries with female heads of state. (Westerners might be familiar with the name Benazir Bhutto) I mean, the Prophet's boss was a woman. Fuzz fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Jan 8, 2016 |
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Jan 8, 2016 19:47
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Cingulate posted:Let's say human, not Arab. Non-arabs were always perfectly capable of enslaving others and oppressing women. Paniculus Rift was specifically implying that it was a specific feature of Islam with regard to its view of women. It is not. It's specific to the (mostly Arab, also East and Central African) practice of Islam in a specific culture, and is not an attribute of the religion itself. Hence I clarified. You are being a pedant.
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Jan 8, 2016 20:56
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Cingulate posted:I'd love to say Why yes of course I am, but the truth is rather that you were seemingly making a somewhat more subtle argument than I was prepared to read (assuming that your argument was indeed that regardless of if being a chauvinist is a fairly universal human, not particularly Arab trait, the cultural aspects manifesting in sexism that are often, when cultures are blamed, attributed to Islam should instead be attributed to Arabic culture). Which is also true. I mean, just today I overheard (in the Northeast US) someone remark, "would you really want a woman as President?" with regard to Hillary. It sucks, but it's slowly (very slowly) getting better. Regardless, this is a Question/Answer thread about Islam, not a social commentary or soap boxing thread. It's not meant to be a, "LET'S RECRUIT PEOPLE TO ISLAM!" thread or the, "LET'S BASH AN ENTIRE RELIGION AND INSULT THE PEOPLE THAT BELIEVE IT, BECAUSE THAT DEMONSTRATES HOW ENLIGHTENED AND PROGRESSIVE WE ARE," thread (which it turned into for a bit). It's a thread for people to ask whatever questions they have about the religion of people that either follow it or actually know things about it, rather than having to rely on the stereotyped or often inaccurate depictions that are readily available elsewhere. The thread is for cutting through all that bullshit and getting to the point. Grandstanding and saying, "A BLOO BLOO ISLAM ENSLAVES WOMEN!" is disingenuous and an unfair assessment, and falls under the above outlined, "bullshit," which only serves to confuse the matter for those coming to the thread genuinely wanting to find out the religion's stance on women. Fuzz fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Jan 8, 2016 |
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Jan 8, 2016 21:35
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waitwhatno posted:I mean, all Muslims in this thread are far more religiously conservative than the average Christian in the west. Would a modern Islamic country be full of people like you or more of liberal types, like in the west?  I'm not sure where you're getting that from, at all. Like, multiple Muslims in this thread (like me) have remarked about how we're pretty liberal and chill, meanwhile according to surveys (http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/) The average Christian (all denominations inclusive) cares more about religious matters. All is a pretty extreme word.
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Jan 10, 2016 00:43
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Cingulate posted:Some Greeks knew, and eventually many educated people everywhere did, but I see little reason to assume most people did. For example, illiterate, uneducated people living far away from major centers of civilization and the sea probably didn't know any such things. I'd bet good money Jesus assumed a flat earth, and I wouldn't be surprised if Muhammad assumed it to be flat, too. There's a lot of evidence to indicate that at least shortly after Muhammad's death the Caliphate knew the world was round and, in fact, that the Earth was probably not the center of our universe/solar system. They made huge progress in Astronomy and navigation. We get it, all religious figures were poo poo eating cultists in your mind. You don't have to post spurious nonsense with no basis in fact to drive it home. Especially considering your (or maybe it was one of the other angry atheists, I haven't been paying close attention) previous arguments about scientific thought and evidence based logic. Fuzz fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Jan 10, 2016 |
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Jan 10, 2016 03:18
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Deteriorata posted:I cannot vouch for Mohammad, but the Arabs were renowned for their scholarship before and after Islam. Muhammad was illiterate until the day he died, according to most historians. That said, the Quran is purportedly the word of God, and Muhammad relayed it via recitation. Whether or not he knew the world was round, from the Muslim perspective, has very little bearing on the meaning of the book, as it's not his words in the eyes of a Muslim.
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Jan 10, 2016 04:56
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Jastiger posted:Exactly about Jesus. It sounds pretty made up to me. Why would Jesus be literate? And that's the Old Testament, not the Quran. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc1MMw6zgro Easier than explaining the verses myself. Is that explanation a solid one? Who knows. Pretty much all of the Quran is written in poetic verse and often uses metaphor to explain what it's talking about. It's why my whole argument about Adam and Eve still has yet to be refuted by any Imam, because even that could be a metaphor, by the Quran's own logic, which is why the vast majority of Muslim scholars believe in evolution and don't think the Earth is only 7000 years old.
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Jan 10, 2016 09:22
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Jastiger posted:You open up with dismissing the old testament, then say that the old testament isn't disputed by some scholars. I think you may be confused about what the Old Testament is... the Quran is most definitely not the Old Testament, nor is the Old Testament (as defined in the West) actually part of the Quran like it is with the Bible. Many of the same stories, parables, etc are shared between the two, but they're presented in a very different way and in many cases the content is altered, like the creation of woman or the nature of the devil myths. And I should have clarified and said most Muslim academics in the US, and the evidence is pretty anecdotal on my part but I've had the discussion with a lot of Muslim scholars based out of the Northeast, Midwest, and West Coast. I'd be surprised if opinions differed in the South or Southwest. Edit: Fixed for phone Fuzz fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Jan 10, 2016 |
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Jan 10, 2016 17:31
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The pragmatic answer is that it's the spirit of the prayer that matters. You can pay in a moving vehicle, for example... It's presumed your vehicle won't always be facing the correct direction, but it's nice to actually face the right way. If you're stranded on a deserted island and it's super cloudy and you have no idea of what direction is what, similarly, you would just pick a direction and pray. Praying in the wrong direction is still better than not praying at all, and not knowing which direction to face is not an excuse to not pray. It's pretty straightforward.
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Jan 10, 2016 18:58
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ashgromnies posted:So most liberal Muslims believe homosexuality is sinful and homosexuals should avoid having sex? I dunno, I don't agree with Amon Khonsu's stance, and in the grand scheme of things maybe God won't care. It's not all or nothing in Islam.
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Jan 11, 2016 16:09
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Lassitude posted:If that were the assumption, Muslim women probably wouldn't be prohibited from marrying non-Muslims, unlike Muslim men. No, that stems from the predominant setup of the region, which was that the children would be the same religion as the father, regardless of what mom is.
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Jan 11, 2016 19:32
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BattyKiara posted:So what would be an absolutely nope, you can't have that name? I know some people in Sweden use Norse gods as names, like Thor and Freya. Would that count? Biblical names like Jesus and Peter? There aren't any actually prohibited names, technically. Unless your name is like "Fuckallah" or something, which considering most Republicans, there might actually be a baby out there named that... You could even be named Allah, as long as you're not actually claiming to be God or godly, it doesn't matter.
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Jan 20, 2016 14:08
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Tendai posted:Basically what Fuzz said above. As long as your name isn't Allahcansuckit or something, which seems unlikely, you'd probably be okay. It's again, more about intention than anything else. There's a much bigger emphasis on maintaining lineage and family ties than going all whacked-out and deciding you need an Arabic name. I've met a few, as well as an Odin. They didn't live up to it. Honestly, the name changing thing always struck me as more of a Nation of Islam thing with casting off your false slave name and embracing your true Muslim identity or whatever.
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Jan 20, 2016 17:25
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It was Jesus, not Moses, in some accounts.
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Mar 7, 2016 22:45
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BattyKiara posted:Another etiquette question! Just learned that one of the co-workers had a babay. Really happy for her, I know she was trying to get pregnant for a long time. Now, are there any rules on greeting new babies? Will I insult some Islamic rule if I send her a card and a gift? Are there any gifts that are inapropriate? We are talking girl baby, Indian muslim living in UAE, in case that makes a difference. Trying to stay in touch since I've decided to take another stint there myself, will move in October. Depends on the underlying culture, but the religion itself doesn't call for anything specific... no baptism or anything like that. Don't send a dirty card, I guess? Or do if she's chill and cool and the baby's dad would also find it funny?
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May 30, 2016 15:09
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Probably shouldn't have had premarital morning sex and that glass of wine with brunch today, then. WHELP. 
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Jun 5, 2016 16:11
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