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Kajeesus posted:Isn't there a "Romeo and Juliet" clause in a lot of places that exists specifically for differentiating those two scenarios? In most places it's only for people who were either together before one of them became older than 18 or only stretches from a very brief window of say 19-17 or 18-17. It's really hard to legislate this kind of thing because it's such a touchy subject and no politician on earth wants their opponent to get any material to run against them saying "[insert canadite here] supports men sleeping with young girls!!!!". Generally the best way to handle any kind of sexual law is to base it from the ground up on consent and what are the conditions under which a person can give consent based on the life and status of that specific person. I know it sounds complicated but there is no such thing as a simple good law.
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Sep 27, 2015 21:39
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VideoTapir posted:Did any of you guys actually read the whole article? it was loving drat bad. It was pretty much written by the guy because he has a lovely sexual preference (to say the least), has rationalized it to hell and back, and wants people to accept him, so he provides some dumb theories and oh poor me stories. Which is all fine and dandy (I would do try the same in his posititon) but totally worthless as an article.
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Sep 28, 2015 05:33
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VideoTapir posted:Did any of you guys actually read the whole article? But if I read that article, that makes me a pedo 
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Sep 28, 2015 10:09
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Honestly I feel like this is a conversation we could have a lot more productively if we admitted this isn't a cultural problem about pedophilia, its a cultural problem about rape. gently caress rapists, and double gently caress rapists who rape vulnerable people - a group which children definitely belong in. Being a pedophile is icky sure, but being a pedophile doesn't mean you have to be a rapist. I think there would be lots of ways as a society we could let pedophiles work through and cope with their lovely sexuality without putting kids at risk - and I'm sure there's lots of pedophiles out there who are coping fine pretending they're asexuals while not raping anyone. I don't really have an issue with 'em.
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Sep 28, 2015 17:27
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Sardine Wit posted:I think there would be lots of ways as a society we could let pedophiles work through and cope with their lovely sexuality without putting kids at risk - and I'm sure there's lots of pedophiles out there who are coping fine pretending they're asexuals while not raping anyone. I don't really have an issue with 'em. Yeah, it seems like something to be compassionate about and pity in a 'wow, that is some lovely luck' sort if way. It seems highly unlikely that anyone would in any way choose to have an abominable and morally unfulfillable preference. It in no way justifies rape, which is a whole other issue.
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Sep 28, 2015 18:27
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Also asking whether something is really a choice is incoherent unless you believe free will exists
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Sep 28, 2015 18:33
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Series DD Funding posted:Also asking whether something is really a choice is incoherent unless you believe free will exists Perhaps, but our legal system does assume that, and pretty much any ethical discussion must also. I'd ask what your point was, but I know you simply had no choice but to post.
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Sep 28, 2015 22:04
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Trent posted:It in no way justifies rape, which is a whole other issue. Frankly, the level of hysteria about pedophiles who never actually offend makes me wonder about people. It's like they think most people simply can't resist the opportunity to rape someone they're sexually attracted to if given the opportunity, and I find that deeply troubling. Having been in such a situation with a woman I was dating (she was passed out from drinking too much; turns out she was quite a severe alcoholic!), I can say it was one of the easiest things I've ever done to not-rape someone. Non-consensual sex is a pretty big boner-killer in my opinion, regardless of whether you're otherwise sexually attracted to the person.
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Sep 28, 2015 22:13
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Yeah totally. I can't see anyone wanting to advocate for it, but equivocating pedophiles with rapists makes to me about as much sense as equivocating queer folk with rapists. There IS an issue about child safety because children can't give consent but may appear to given their limited understanding of relationships with adults and so forth. I'm not saying any social response to pedophilia shouldn't make child safety a key plank. I'm just saying it makes sense to me that we should destigmatise a mental condition and place the stigma where it belongs which is with rapists.
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Sep 29, 2015 03:54
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PT6A posted:Frankly, the level of hysteria about pedophiles who never actually offend makes me wonder about people. It's like they think most people simply can't resist the opportunity to rape someone they're sexually attracted to if given the opportunity, and I find that deeply troubling. Having been in such a situation with a woman I was dating (she was passed out from drinking too much; turns out she was quite a severe alcoholic!), I can say it was one of the easiest things I've ever done to not-rape someone. Non-consensual sex is a pretty big boner-killer in my opinion, regardless of whether you're otherwise sexually attracted to the person. Do you not? :archer: Sardine Wit posted:Yeah totally. I can't see anyone wanting to advocate for it, but equivocating pedophiles with rapists makes to me about as much sense as equivocating queer folk with rapists. Jokes aside, I did want to say thanks for your post earlier. I'd been trying to explain my point of view on this to a friend for a while and that was a solid way to do it. The problem with a child rapist isn't the child part, it's the rapist part. The child part just makes it worse.
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Sep 29, 2015 04:37
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Child porn (huge number of pedophiles indulge in this) harms children. Ipso Facto, kill them all.
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Sep 29, 2015 05:00
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Don't dox me.
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Sep 29, 2015 08:57
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Black Baby Goku posted:[Crime] (huge number of [group I hate] indulge in this) harms children. Ipso Facto, kill them all. Are you also in favor of killing people who look at videos of adult rape including drunken sex, and people who watch 'rekd' type videos of people being killed in various ways? Consuming ISIS videos = death. sure sounds like a reasonable position to me! Of course, your position actually extends further to people who even enjoy watching simulated murder, so everyone who has ever watched Murder, She Wrote has to die, sorry Nana, you sick gently caress.
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Sep 29, 2015 13:47
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Trent posted:Are you also in favor of killing people who look at videos of adult rape including drunken sex, and people who watch 'rekd' type videos of people being killed in various ways? Consuming ISIS videos = death. sure sounds like a reasonable position to me! He's being facetious, but I'd put all people who get their jollies watching videos of violent crimes in the same camp. There's a reason watching child porn is a crime, and while I'm sure there's plenty of fake rape and snuff porn out there, anyone who goes looking for the real stuff is as bad as a peruser of child porn. I don't really know why anyone would watch ISIS videos either, unless the like know the victim or are in the military or something. I think it's fair to take a stance that people can't help what they're into, but people who watch child porn are actively supporting the production of child porn.
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Sep 29, 2015 14:51
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Trent posted:Of course, your position actually extends further to people who even enjoy watching simulated murder, so everyone who has ever watched Murder, She Wrote has to die, sorry Nana, you sick gently caress.
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Sep 29, 2015 15:23
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Kajeesus posted:He's being facetious, but I'd put all people who get their jollies watching videos of violent crimes in the same camp. There's a reason watching child porn is a crime, and while I'm sure there's plenty of fake rape and snuff porn out there, anyone who goes looking for the real stuff is as bad as a peruser of child porn. I don't really know why anyone would watch ISIS videos either, unless the like know the victim or are in the military or something. In many places, the equivalent of the fake rape/snuff porn you mention (erotica or drawings featuring minors) is actually illegal, even if no child was harmed through its production. That's a slightly different situation, because drawings can be modeled on real child pornography, and either one can be used by a molester to groom a child, so I'm pretty comfortable with it being banned, but it's still worth noting that your comparison is imprecise. On the subject of erotica, it does strike me as strange that changing a mention or two of someone's age could turn something from completely legal, to something completely illegal. I'm not really sure what the solution would be, mind you.
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Sep 29, 2015 16:03
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Kajeesus posted:
I don't disagree, just checking for consistency. I'm also not convinced that poster is being facetious, if so, they are parroting the views of many who are not. I am in no way supporting, condoning, or apologizing for child porn or other criminal actions, just aghast at the idea that thoughts or desires themselves should be criminalized or punished. A Buttery Pastry posted:You're being retarded here. I know I shouldn't expect much from someone who still uses that word as a pejorative, but kindly explain why punishment for desire of a criminal act is OK for some crimes but not others.
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Sep 29, 2015 16:10
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Check out Black Baby Goku's rap sheet if you're ever worried for a second he might not be a troll. Animate/drawn/written erotica is a tricky thing. Maybe something to be made illegal but decriminalised? Or perhaps something that is controlled via a psychologist or something where you can only access it legally if you are enrolled in a treatment/monitoring program.
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Sep 29, 2015 16:40
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Sardine Wit posted:Animate/drawn/written erotica is a tricky thing. Maybe something to be made illegal but decriminalised? Or perhaps something that is controlled via a psychologist or something where you can only access it legally if you are enrolled in a treatment/monitoring program. This really sets off my first amendment alarms. The only need for freedom of speech is to protect socially unacceptable speech. I could see banning things like grooming guides, but works of fiction, regardless of content.. Eeh. Again, simulated crimes are a huge percentage of media, erotic or otherwise.
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Sep 29, 2015 16:45
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Trent posted:Are you also in favor of killing people who look at videos of adult rape including drunken sex, and people who watch 'rekd' type videos of people being killed in various ways? Consuming ISIS videos = death. sure sounds like a reasonable position to me! What the gently caress even is this post?
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Sep 29, 2015 16:50
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Trent posted:This really sets off my first amendment alarms. The only need for freedom of speech is to protect socially unacceptable speech. I agree that content and context is important. I'd argue that there probably is some kind of distinction you could make between a work of artistic merit and something that aggrandises or normalises a criminal act purely for the purposes of titillation - which were basically the old standards for pornography - and then leave it up to courts to interpret which is which. But perhaps this is all going off topic.
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Sep 29, 2015 16:53
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Trent posted:I know I shouldn't expect much from someone who still uses that word as a pejorative, but kindly explain why punishment for desire of a criminal act is OK for some crimes but not others.
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Sep 29, 2015 17:07
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Sardine Wit posted:I agree that content and context is important. I'd argue that there probably is some kind of distinction you could make between a work of artistic merit and something that aggrandises or normalises a criminal act purely for the purposes of titillation - which were basically the old standards for pornography - and then leave it up to courts to interpret which is which. But perhaps this is all going off topic. The courts already make this distinction with visual work. Not all depictions of naked children, even photographic, are illegal -- of course, those that are sexual in nature are most definitely illegal.
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Sep 29, 2015 17:18
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Trent posted:Are you also in favor of killing people who look at videos of adult rape including drunken sex, and people who watch 'rekd' type videos of people being killed in various ways? Consuming ISIS videos = death. sure sounds like a reasonable position to me! Of course he's not in favor of that, and this is where the discussion went last time. Ask these get-tough guys if they think rape of adults is as bad as child rape and they'll sputter and say "how can you even ask that?" They see some forms of rape as worse than others, because they approve of rape and rape culture. These men who perseverate on how disgusting and wrong child rape is bear closer watching than anyone else.
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Sep 29, 2015 17:25
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Please maintain only a moderate level of disgust for child rape, otherwise you might be a rapist.
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Sep 29, 2015 17:30
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Control Volume posted:Please maintain only a moderate level of disgust for child rape, otherwise you might be a rapist. No, you should probably maintain a high level of disgust towards all rape. I think it's normal for people to be especially angry about child molesters, though, because molestation combines the revolting act of raping someone, with the equally revolting act of doing harm to someone much weaker than you (and, frequently, taking advantage of a position of trust to do so). I hate people who physically abuse children, even if no sex is involved, because it's a disgusting and cowardly thing to do. I also hate rapists in general. When you combine those two things, the hatred I feel towards those two things get added together, and I think that's how most people feel.
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Sep 29, 2015 17:47
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please try to stick to the original topic of this thread: guessing who has one hand, no friends, can't stop pissing pants, and is a pedo
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Sep 30, 2015 00:44
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Samog posted:please try to stick to the original topic of this thread: guessing who has one hand, no friends, can't stop pissing pants, and is a pedo You?
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Sep 30, 2015 01:02
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Samog posted:please try to stick to the original topic of this thread: guessing who has one hand, no friends, can't stop pissing pants, and is a pedo Lord Nelson?
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Sep 30, 2015 01:57
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Sardine Wit posted:I agree that content and context is important. I'd argue that there probably is some kind of distinction you could make between a work of artistic merit and something that aggrandises or normalises a criminal act purely for the purposes of titillation - which were basically the old standards for pornography - and then leave it up to courts to interpret which is which. But perhaps this is all going off topic. This is basically the standard that exists now in American law, after several attempts to get simulated child pornography banned got struck down by SCOTUS the law wound up on using a modified Miller test for obscenity, ie it must have absolutely no merit (artistic etc) at all and solely be designed to get rocks off to be illegal. Prosecutors have avoided bringing even these cases to trial because they reckon the Supreme Court will strike down the law yet again. Samog posted:please try to stick to the original topic of this thread: guessing who has one hand, no friends, can't stop pissing pants, and is a pedo Marco Rubio
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Sep 30, 2015 02:25
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Ever since New York legalized being topless for women theirs been these well endowed street performing women that stand around near heavily congested landmarks as their job. Its really weird to me because occasionally youll have like a small family or a group of tween boys just really ogling and grabbing at these women. I know I've heard of someones family cheering on their kid getting up close and personal with titties. Ultimately the whole idea of letting women be topless is that people need to learn to accept it as being no big deal but it doesn't change the fact that in these scenarios i can't see it as anything other than being an extremely disturbingly pedophilic ceremony. especially when parents are cheering on their own kids. This liberative counter culture stuff has always been a bitter for me when it comes to leftism and I hope we can all agree that it is something that needs to be checked more often.
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Sep 30, 2015 03:04
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SedanChair posted:Of course he's not in favor of that, and this is where the discussion went last time. Ask these get-tough guys if they think rape of adults is as bad as child rape and they'll sputter and say "how can you even ask that?" They see some forms of rape as worse than others, because they approve of rape and rape culture. These men who perseverate on how disgusting and wrong child rape is bear closer watching than anyone else. Child rape is worse than adult rape.
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Sep 30, 2015 05:26
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Black Baby Goku posted:Child rape is worse than adult rape. Your posting is worse than either. 
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Sep 30, 2015 19:10
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Black baby goku posting is bad, but I think rape of all types is much worse.
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Sep 30, 2015 19:17
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If it was a legitimate shitpost, the mods have a way of shutting that whole thing down.
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Sep 30, 2015 19:19
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I hope the mods shut you down.
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Sep 30, 2015 21:09
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Sep 30, 2015 22:40
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Good.
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Sep 30, 2015 23:37
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A Buttery Pastry posted:How many people do you think watch Murder, She Wrote because of a lust for murder? I'm not even dealing with the question you're asking, just pointing out that the comparison is ridiculous. Murder she wrote is a fairly mild example but have you seen the gossip magazines that people buy? When people coined the phrase "torture porn" I feel they misapplied it. A lot of people definitely have a really perverse fascination with human suffering, which is completely fine so long as you consume it in a socially acceptable way.
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Sep 30, 2015 23:38
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Caros posted:You? uhh excuse me i have two hands and am not a pedophile
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Oct 1, 2015 00:16
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