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Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
The production system is a huge step forwards from HOI3, the land combat and research is a small gain, the ai and naval war is about the same and I cannot forgive the abomination that is the air system. Seriously how could anybody have looked at that and though, yep that's good let's ship this.

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Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
Nobody likes a smart rear end.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
drat, I was hoping for 15 March.

That said after Stellaris and HOI4 I'm not going to day 1 it, despite being a total sucker for anything to do with classical antiquity.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
I thought trade was on a province not city level?

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
The thing that astonishes/horrifies me is that greatest nation of the world Sweden wasn't playable by design in EU1.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
I think there's only been 2?

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
Isn't that every map game though?

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009

MiddleOne posted:

Where is the stream?

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/379442227

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
They cut the start dates from EU4 because it was a lot of extra research for them and 99% of people only ever used the earliest one anyway.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
Would that really feel like a different kind of war given HOIs combat mechanics though?

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
Oh God paradox posters reaction to that guy.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009

dead comedy forums posted:

A tad offtopic but not so much: well, since Paradox owns White Wolf and this is usually the general chat for the company games, do we have a goonthread for the ARG that has been rolling around recently about a potential Bloodlines-type game?

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3882000

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009

VostokProgram posted:

The fascist countries need to be buffed for gameplay reasons. If the outcome of the war was a foregone conclusion there wouldn't be much point to the game



That's fair enough, but the problem is the best way to play a lot of not Axis nations, especially minors, is to take the fascist tree.

That makes no sense at all.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009

RabidWeasel posted:

Is there an Imperator thread yet or are we waiting for the game to actually come out first?

Pfft, Rule the Waves 2 has been announced for the 25th of April. Imperator has no hope.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
Imagine how cool March of the Eagles would have been if paradox put some effort in it?

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
I sincerely hope so. If you've got to that point just play witp.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
I mean it would be interesting if they took out counters in favour of a sort of HOI 4 style front painting system. You as the presumed demonic being possessing the monarch tell your generals to paint this bit of the map your colour, and you will give them x thousand men to do it with.

Flesh generals out to be more interesting than a single die roll and have it be more about managing your generals and their personalities than about counter pushing, with jealousies, dis loyalties, personal ambitions ect all getting in the way.

Have a few buttons you can press to override your generals and order an offensive or hold a position. Maybe have the likelihood of this working out the way you want it to be related to your current ruler's stats and your relationships to the generals you appointed. Have the make ruler a general button still there which will remove any possible penalties from giving direct orders but make it so the front calculations are taken from the ruler's stats rather than the general's, and carries the risk of the ruler dieing early. Maybe your heir could also take direct command like this but with a chance of the armies and generals on the front deciding they like him better than you and starting a civil war if he preforms well and is ambitious.



Do I think this is ever going to happen? No. Should I be sent to the gulag for daring to think about it? I hope not.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
Yeah I know, but neither did the king choose which town the battle would take place over, usually, unless he was leading himself. I just said front because the HOI 4 is the closest to this system we have so far. Actually it would probably work more like the aerial battles bucket system in practice, but with the ability to define the coverage of the bucket instead of it being fixed.

I was more thinking from the King's perspective he tells his dude to go and conquer lower Silesia, here's 25k men, off you go. So you as the player would paint over half a dozen provinces or whatever, and the game would calculate where the battle would actually occur based on how many men, how many men opposing you, ect. How far away from your own province you can paint would depend on your logistics tech, buildings present ect.

Your opponent would see a warning as soon as you commit troops, (with estimated troop numbers improving over time maybe?) and could then paint his own provinces and appoint an army to defend,

I don't know, I]m not trying to say this is a fully thought out idea but this whole conversation is about design philosophy not detailed system design.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
The frustrating thing I find about EU combat is the game is absolutely built around it, but you have so little input to affect the outcomes, unless you micro the gently caress out of it. Like you have exact control over every 1k man stack, but as soon as an actual battle breaks out its just a d10. I don't know, it just feels like the system has had it's day, it hasn't really changed at all since EU2 after all, maybe even EU1, I don't know I didn't play 1.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
Not gonna lie, I am considerably more hype for FoG:E than Imperator, AEGOD jank and all.

Apart from the battles I'm really looking for to their culture/decadence system, sounds like a more interesting and interactive take on aggressive expansion than just a plain modifier in the dev diaries at a least, will be interesting to see how it actually plays.

I really like their attitude to buildings too, a huge variety overall but a system of weighted cards to decide what is available to build in different provinces.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
Bring back Hoi 3 OOB/CoC.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009

Tyrel Lohr posted:

What's worse is that MOO2 was fundamentally more of an iteration on Master of Magic. And while I loved MOM, I could never get into MOO2 and I've always considered it to be something of a disappointing game simply because it did feel like a reskinned MOM.

I would love to see a spiritual successor to MOO1 that iterates on its basic systems. The tech system in that game was far better than anything that has come since, in large part because it was built around the concept that not all technology would be available in every game due to the luck of the draw. Instead, most 4x space games are happy to go Red Laser / Blue Laser / Green Laser and just increase damage rather than make anything particularly unique. MOO1 had some evolutionary advances (Neutron Pellet to Mass Driver, etc.), but they also had several different types of weapons and respective countermeasures that were fairly interesting in how they interacted with each other.

But I agree: where are the MOO1 or Stars! clones? And when can ship designers and tactical combat in the genre finally die? (shakes fist at cloud)

I think you mean where is the RTW style ship designer.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
I'm real upset Paradox did Stellaris rather than SotS 3 in house.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

There's an entire focus and event chain devoted to the purging of the party and armed forces that give major maluses to the country. The Nazis have none of their crimes mentioned or have them affect their warmaking potential.

I think he means mechanically Stalin did nothing wrong. As in if you don't purge you will get a Trostkyist uprising, rather than the purges being manifestations of Stalin's paranoia.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
I suppose the objection is that you can run the wermacht cleanly? I don't know, I pretty much agree with you that it's as good as it gets short of banning games about WW2, which I don't think is a good idea.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
Depends what it is really, doesn't it. I'm quite in favour of wheraboos licking dog poo poo, say.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
The sad thing is I knew imperator was going to be poo poo but I bought it anyway because I love the time period, and then surprise surprise it turned out to be poo poo :saddowns:

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
Ultimate general isn't the first comparison to come to mind but it's very good, and FoG:E is coming in a month adding a strategic layer.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
I don't even remember that at all, are the first bits on the LP archive?

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
Obviously the next step is gacha for the dlc.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
I think one of my biggest disappointments with paradox is the have only really managed to produce 3 good series, EU HoI and Vicky, CK2 being the only exception to this. Everything else they have tried, they haven't really tried and have swiftly abandoned.

In retrospect it's painfully obvious that things like sengku or march of the eagle were never intended to be good games, so why did they even bother in the first place?

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Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009

Cantorsdust posted:

I’ll second this. It’s really good. Features:

It has provinces with pops and an extensive building chain, more than E.U. Rome or TW Rome.

The army system is more involved than Paradox but less involved than TW, and most importantly you can watch the battles get played out turn by turn seeing exactly the chain of events that leads to the outcome.

It has a province (like states in V2) system with options for autobuilding and pop distribution.

It has an involved economy system where playing tall is a valid strategy—you take decadence (the main negative resource) with every conquest so expanding across worthless swathes of barbarian land often isn’t worth it.

It has a rudimentary decision system.

It has resource trading between provinces like E.U. Rome but this is handled automatically, no futzing.

Building and army data are stored in plaintext .csv files and can be easily modded.

Cons: I don’t like the decadence system. The penalty for expansion, certain decisions, and certain advanced buildings is decadence. A country that builds up too much decadence starts regressing, going from a stable empire to an old, decaying, crumbling one. This has mechanic effects like making it harder to maintain loyalty and increasing revolt risk. The overall goal of the game is to build up legacy points (your score) through conquest, culture producing buildings, and Wonders while staging off decadence overload and your eventual empire collapse. The problem is there’s no removing decadence (with rare exceptions), only trying to produce enough culture to keep up with it. So you’re doomed to crumble and fail in the end. Which is a very heavy-handed way to force a certain historical outcome.

Still, it’s probably my favorite Rome game thus far. I modded it myself to remove decadence buildup just in player-owned provinces and I’m having a blast.

The decadence system is so good. It's the only game that models rise and fall like that, I wouldn't call it railroading to say all empires fall, because they kind of do. Plus if you rise quickly enough you've got time to rise, fall and rise again before the end of the game. Or you can burn super bright, collapse and still have the highest score at the end of the game, kind of the Alexander strategy, which is also super cool and the only game to do anything like that.

Plus it plugs into FoG II, itself a great game. Yes the plugin is grog and awkward as gently caress, but it's worth the price of admission just as a dynamic campaign generator for FoG II, and it can stand on it's own feet as a great game. I never thought I'd say it, but AGEOD really did a great job there, it blows EU:R 2 out the water.

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