Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

Darkrenown posted:

As far as I know Wiz is a good person and has been supportive to people harassed by their manager.

I'm not at all surprised by the survey results. It was brought up multiple times when I was there and the upper management always made noises about being very concerned and that they would take action, but at most someone would be moved around and informally told off then it was declared all good. Multiple people even spoke to a RPS reporter a few years ago, but the eventual article which came out was very mild and only really mentioned the other abuses in passing while focusing on the QA people being fired.

It's possible something will be changed this time since it's been much more publicly reported, but I will believe it when I see it. When we had a manager who was screaming at people until they cried (this was not a behavior unique to this guy either), creepily messaging AFAB employees at all hours, and eventually sending them porn, the only result was him being moved to only manage men (who were mostly senior so this was almost a promotion for him). When people called this out as unacceptable they were censored for trouble-making. Porn-manager continued to be welcome at after-work drinks with senior people and eventually, years later, left on his own for a design role in another studio. After he left, when this incident was mentioned the management line was "yes, and he was dealt with and no longer works here" as if he was fired on the spot rather than continuing with all prestige until choosing to leave much later.

jesus christ, this and the Fredrik tweet after he decided to return and keep this poo poo going..

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.
So I don't speak Swedish, but my brief forays into this article via. google translate suggest it's, uh, really bad. https://www.dn.se/kultur/undersokning-bland-anstallda-sexuella-krankningar-och-tystnadskultur-pa-svensk-speljatte/

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

Jeoh posted:

could we ignore the boring rehashed "hoi is a genocide simulator" discussion and go back to the sparkling new "paradox is run by sex pests" storyline? because jesus christ, yikes

goons get angrier at being told they should care about war crimes than at being told their fave company is actually full of sex pests

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

A Buttery Pastry posted:

What more is there to talk about, so long as there's no new development? People could talk about the ethics of a boycott, but recent precedent points to that being too spicy a discussion for the mods.

new developments were posted literally today and yesterday

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.
Uhh, was the reason Paradox Tinto opened because Fredrik went to Spain after the allegations?

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

Davincie posted:

No? Tinto is johan. A fact that has been mentioned in this thread dozens of times
If you read the interview above, rather than rush to make a snarky comment, it mentions that Fredrik remained chairman and went to Spain around the same time Tinto formed.

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.
paradox games have always been better suited to abandon history and making well balanced scenarios, namely because they’re uniformly incapable of representing any form of history

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

Gaius Marius posted:

Nobody played the balanced world scenarios for Doomsday. And balance is for other games, having asymmetrical challenges is an appeal of Paradox over other strategy games.

Paradox explicitly abandoned asymmetrical challenges and worldbuilding in favor of making countries as identical as possible, with the only functional difference being geography, or in Stellaris' case, surrounding stars. You can argue whether you want balance in Paradox games or not, but Paradox clearly believes balance is important while being unable to actually accomplish it.

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

yikes! posted:

Where did they explicitly abandon asymmetry, other than stellaris. Also what do you mean by asymmetry? You don't mean switzerland will be as strong as austria in v3 i hope.

Did you play EU3 or EU4 on release? Have you played CK3 recently?

I think Paradox should have definitely gone full hog on asymmetry and unique challenges for each different civ (using that term intentionally, as Paradox games are so divorced from history as it IS like Civilization), but Paradox has disagreed. Maybe another sign of their awful trends these last few years.

e: actually, FWIW, EU4 now is hardly asymmetric - country differences continue to boil down to "fill meter, hit Unique Country button, get manpower". No real substantial differences in gameplay.

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

yikes! posted:

Yes, and you're using asymmetry in a way I've never seen before if you think there was no difference between states in eu4 at release.

Have you ever played strategy games made by other companies? Things like RTSes, or HoMM, or some of the mods for EU4 like Anbennar? Sword of the stars?! :psyduck: Asymmetric is all about different gameplay experiences and using fun, completely different choices to compete. Not “my country is exactly the same except for a couple numbers”, like Paradox fans are conditioned to.

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

Sampatrick posted:

No Paradox game has ever been assymetric in the way you're describing except for specifically CK2 - and CK3 will probably eventually get to a point where it's similarly assymetric.

Stellaris spent some time moving in this direction. But yes, agreed Paradox games have long struggled to be more than window dressing.

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

Steely Dad posted:

Has Imperator been patched into being tolerable for someone looking for CK2 in togas? (Or CK3 in togas with more content, I guess.)

it got patched to the point it shoulda been at on release anyway. so if you wanna play a release-quality paradox game, give it a shot. otherwise, hard pass. they're done supporting it moving forward

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

Crazycryodude posted:

Paradox is a serious big boy company with stock prices and shareholder meetings and an HR department and sexual harassment scandals now. Sure the thread has a few favorites to pick on but I think it's honestly more a product of PDX blowing up and hiring enough lawyers to get you fired for saying anything that isn't on the list of marketing dept. approved vague yet broadly positive platitudes. It's not like goons were any more polite and friendly 10 years ago, it's Paradox that changed from a few weird nerds making janky indie games for other weird nerds to a giant corporation.

I like when the Paradox devs post here, but when there's massive allegations against the company I'm not sure why other posters here are saying we need to coddle the managers here and tell them they did nothing wrong. We've known management was a dumpster fire even before everything about Fredrik and the rest came out.

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

Jazerus posted:

the devs that post here are by and large not managers. the ones that are managers are either johan (who imo is a valid target given that this is, in many ways, his company even if he doesn't run it) or wiz, who immediately came out in support of the union. also at this point almost all of the paradox dev goons were goons first and became paradox devs later...i don't see the point in aiming criticism at them rather than the people who made the culture they were hired into, especially when they're all apparently in the union.

that’s sort of what I’m saying? I think we agree. The devs can only do so much vis-a-vis the management, and I think goons shouldn’t lay off discussing the myriad allegations against Paradox because the devs - who may well not be involved - might get upset. That doesn’t make sense.

And unfortunately, despite his forum superstar status here (see the post above), I completely think Johan had to have been complicit, especially with how close he was to Fredrik. And if not, ideally more information will come out exonerating him.

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

Alchenar posted:

You don't actually know what's going on and a dead internet comedy forum is not remotely an appropriate place to ask about this sort of stuff.

no one is asking folks anything? What

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

oh i did miss that. Very dumb post

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.
I feel like there's a lot of talking past eachother the last page or so. I think the two things everyone can agree on are, 1. Paradox's management has been openly complicit with sexual harassment and belittling on a fundamental scale for years, if not since founding, and 2. Paradox's CEO is literally being "wow this is such a shock" after coming back into power when the last woman CEO stepped down, despite allegations against him directly, and that's Really Bad.

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

Alchenar posted:

Okay the thing to remember is that Paradox Interactive started out as a 7 man studio that achieved escape velocity from the bankruptcy and breakup of Target Games. There's an in-between moment where Fredrik gets brought in to advise on strategy for Paradox Entertainment and when the board decides to double down on making unsuccessful AAA games rather than repeat the successful grand strategy formula he buys out the video games division which I believe includes Johan (does this story seem familiar?).

So without really having any detail as to what's going on, rather than assume individual malice it seems more likely that Paradox just did what hundreds of other small companies that experience rapid growth have done, which is that they didn't quite get right the necessary cultural shift as they grew and had a core who kept on acting like they were a company half dozen guys taking on the world rather than a medium-to-large international enterprise with hundreds of employees.

rather than assume individual malice on behalf of the perpetrators? Uh are you serious? I get this isnt an issue with them using an UNPROFESSIONAL WALLPAPER, something you care deeply about, but

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.
calling out random devs on social media is dumb and they’ve already been laughed out of here, but I’m pretty shocked you’re talking about how we shouldn’t believe allegations against Fredrik because “who knows what happened”.

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

Alchenar posted:

I'm not saying we shouldn't believe specific allegations, particularly the ones he's held his hands up to. I'm saying that an awful lot of leaping is being done from 'Fredrik once did a bad thing and got immediately called out for it by HR' to why exactly Paradox evidently has a lovely culture, and I particularly don't think it's helpful to be trying to engage Paradox employees in this leaping when there is a company and union process going on.

:psyduck: So you're telling us to ignore the multiple surveys conducted which show there's a systematic cultural issue at Paradox, again, because "we have no idea what's going on"? Again, sorry it doesn't measure up to the wallpaper poo poo you melted down about.

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

Alchenar posted:

No you are repeatedly misreading my posts, which I presume is whatever got you banned and forced you to re-reg.

deflecting and embarrassing yourself by being wrong some more isn't particularly a good look

Alchenar posted:

So without really having any detail as to what's going on, rather than assume individual malice it seems more likely that Paradox just did what hundreds of other small companies that experience rapid growth have done, which is that they didn't quite get right the necessary cultural shift as they grew and had a core who kept on acting like they were a company half dozen guys taking on the world rather than a medium-to-large international enterprise with hundreds of employees.

what you're saying is deifnitely clear: their culture was a-okay and great, until they got big and caught.


HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

All Alchenar is saying is don't go after individuals that haven't had confirmed knocks against them and blaming or extending blame to them for the systemic culture issue at Paradox. It's not our place to do that. Definitely signal boost stories and reports, but don't witch hunt anyone who just so happens to work for the company.

I wish this were all they were saying, cause then they'd be correct and not gross :smith:

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

Jabor posted:

I would play neither, because there are enough good games made by people who don't suck.

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.
i'm going to buy Diablo 2 Remastered in spite of claims against Blizzard so that Sega understands my thirst for action RPGs

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

If you want to buy the game that’s fine. If the actions of Paradox as a whole colour your decision to buy the game then that’s fine too. I will be buying the game regardless if it turns out well, since it’s a game I want and it’s not completely exchangeable with another similar product. Still,

If you really wanted Diablo 2 Remastered, even though it’s kinda poo poo IIRC, that’s fair enough. If you want to support a game in a niche genre to say “hey I want more of this” that’s also fair enough. If the claims against Blizzard make it distasteful for you to buy the game, that is also entirely fair. So long as people aren’t buying the game because of the claims, I can respect their choice.

It is however kinda funny when someone comes in with “yeah I don’t care about what they did btw what did they do” though

I was making a satire post because I briefly forgot that it was dead. I agree with the idea individual consumer decisions don't really impact stuff, but LOL at coming in just to say "oh it's just ONE bad apple, im gonna buy it no matter what, PS what else happened"

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.
It was adversarial, but sounds like you regret that first post and agree this is all horrifying, so no worries! It seems pretty clear Paradox needs to clean house, starting from the top.

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

Agean90 posted:

drat I'm good

thank you

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.
lol the weird Wilhelm fanboys are coming from INSIDE THE THREAD

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.
Can’t believe this thread was so mean to Groogy he had to quit Paradox :(

(Glad to hear you got out Groogy :) good luck in your new role!!)

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

yikes! posted:

I remember people being happy it wasn't eu: rome 2 only to be disappointed when they realized it was.

this was the major selling point in fact, that it was literally EU: Rome 2. the ultimate problem with the game was its design on release being Bad.

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

Mantis42 posted:

I do, those games are mostly mediocre.

Unlike Imperator? :v:

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

SlothfulCobra posted:

The PRC does not like accurate depictions of history, and they have weird feelings about people saying anything good about previous Chinas, so odds are low that they'd be okay with a game about trying to accurately depict history.

Not that there aren't plenty of people outside PRC control who wouldn't want a game about Chinese history, and other East Asian countries could have good potential markets, just that odds are low on Paradox getting a game past Chinese censors.

what the? when has Paradox ever put accurately depicting history over their bottom line? (not that that’s even necessarily a bad thing!!) they even went so far as to rage against anyone demanding the Taiping Rebellioj be represented in V2. where is this noble Paradox vs terrible Chinese censor narrative coming from??

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

Lum_ posted:

uh, the Hearts of Iron series is banned in China for literally this (specifically having an independent Tibet since China noticed it in HOI2 and independent warlords since HOI3)

yeah but Paradox wasn't gonna get their games sold in China anyway by having politics at all, it was a calculated decision

Mans posted:

The Taiping Rebelion isn't on vanila vicky 2???

Holy moly, I never played vanilla and it shows.

they patched it in after getting enough flak for it, presumably over King's raucous anger

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

People's Republic of China GDP, 2019: 14.28 billion United States Dollars
United States of America GDP, 2019: 21.43 billion United States Dollars
Apple, gross profit, 2019: 55.25 billion United States Dollars

drat I'm glad Apple has no control over my life.

this is the funniest loving post ive ever read

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

Tomn posted:

Yeah from the looks of it I doubt these guys are gonna break the "Paradox modding teams make bad developers" curse. Remember the good old days of Magna Mundi and EvW?

in fairness you also had Darkest Hour and Arsenal of Democracy, as well as For the Glory which was.. a commercial failure, but honestly the perfect version of what those folks wanted.


IncredibleIgloo posted:

Isn't most modding of EUIV just manipulating and changing Lua scripts? Like I am sure that is helpful and a good skill to have but I am not sure that Lua scripting translates well to OOP, like C# that Unity uses. I mean, I like C# and I think it is fun and easy to use, and Unity does a lot of the heavy lifting in regards to a game engine, but I think there is a significant skill jump between the modding and programing. Not to say they cannot do it, but their mod philosophy seemed to be based around making a million systems, pop-ups, events, whatever, in the hope that some of them were engaging. I don't think adding province count accomplishes all that much. In fact I would even argue that too many provinces cause a saturation and somewhat flattens the impact of certain provinces.

Also the "Phenomena that drove mankind forward" seems a lot like an abstraction, such as mana points or board game mechanics. Their comments remind me so very much of Star Citizen.

Nah Paradox game mods are mostly around.. fake, pseudo-JSON? I think it's syntactically consistent (i got really far building out a Discord bot, for example, that processed save files to keep track of MP stats over time), but it's also come a long way in the last.. five years or so? Like we're still a way, way long way from anything like Civ 4's modding, but it's "pretty good". And in fairness always been good for what a lot of mods want to accomplish (and, frankly, MEIOU is a fuckin work of art in the EU4 engine).

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.
deeply glad I gave up on that project then :v:

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

idhrendur posted:

I've found recursive descent with each component handling its own parsing of the incoming data and letting sub-components do their thing works well. A handful of helpers handle 99% of cases. And I believe others have done more efficient parsers than mine, in a plethora of languages. So if you ever wanted to do so for kicks, you're in good company. Or if you wanted that as a stepping-stone towards a bigger project, others have handled that step for you.

might follow up in some PM's, thanks friend :)

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

Hellioning posted:

CK3 does not have a sunset invasion and it is the lesser for it.

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.
i think the worldwar series is pretty enjoyable schlock fwiw, and influential enough paradox still calls tanks "barrels" in vicky which is kinda funny.

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

Koramei posted:

Not coming down on you specifically, because I know this is a really common assumption, but the notion that bodies of water are the only meaningful barriers is really a pretty flawed one; China’s geography is really not any more suited towards unification than Europe’s is — there are huge changes in climate even in the traditionally Han regions, mountain ranges criss-crossing major chunks of the landscape, and while there are navigable ones too, there are large stretches of river that are very difficult to navigate. Chinese unification was a long, slow process largely in spite of all of that, and even its heartlands are like 4-5 separate geographical regions.

again fwiw (i cant believe im defending harry turtledove in 2022) he doesnt raise that idea as the sole explanation, it's one of the things many of the scholars in the books consider as a potential contributor. the series never explicitly states why humans are so hosed Up compared to the lizzies

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

ThaumPenguin posted:

I remember being hyped for the release of this one

i will never forgive how dumb it was people demanded the loving newspapers enough they made it into the game. UGH

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply