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Runa
Feb 13, 2011

They're not all ghosts.

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Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Part of the problem is that the protagonist is one of the least interesting characters of Gaim, which isn't helped by the fact that he tends to spin his wheels more often than not. Or at least seems to. Interesting developments happen to characters around him, but he sort of just has things handed to him. His actor has a lot of charisma but he can only really work with the material he's given. He's at his best in the very beginning which is also where the story's at its weakest. The middle of Gaim is the strongest bit because the drama stays the tightest and things move at a decent clip. The early bits take a little too long to get serious, which doesn't play to Gaim's strengths compared to other, lighter-hearted shows. The end suffers a lot from pacing issues and a dearth of compelling stakes (to say more would honestly spoil things). Also like some other Urobuchi works, women really, really get the short end of the stick in terms of agency and, in the case of the most prominent female characters, their ultimate fates.

And this is an opinion that Burkion's shared several times but I agree that it really is a victim to product scheduling, where upgrades are bestowed arbitrarily to fit toy releases rather than to serve the actual plot beats.

Gaim's tone and subject matter may be love-it-or-hate-it but at least around here I remember more posts by people who were just disappointed by the execution. Double and Drive might be more lighthearted and kid-friendly fare but they're also better made. And I'm saying this as a fan, I'd easily put Gaim in my top 5 in spite of how disappointing the last leg of it was.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

gently caress you boom3 Mr. Belt best belt

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

:ghost:

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Yeah, I was serious when I said Kouta spins his wheels.

And I was talking specifically about his character development. The guy is basically in fifth gear all the time but his tires aren't even touching the ground.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

I think I still have Drive on the brain.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

If a show's premise interested you enough to get you to watch one episode of it but you weren't too hot on that first ep, you may as well wait and see if it gets better before dropping it. You weren't going to watch it if you weren't at least interested anyway, so it's no big deal to give it a second chance.

That's the idea behind the three-episode test.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Xelkelvos posted:

Why hasn't there been a food/cooking themed Sentai or Kamen Rider? The merch practically sells itself

Where did you think the Rider gummies thing got started.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

It's recycled base footage but with different effects added in post.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

It's only page 14

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Gotta love dealing with them Chinese words.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

We already knew the explanation

Motto posted:

Also because it's a merchandise-driven show targeted mainly at boys and those tend to be bad about women regardless of country of origin.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Reds posted:

Honestly I'd argue that Ichijou is slightly more of the protagonist than Godai if I had to only pick one for the protagonist slot.

Yeah, Ichijou was vital in a lot of ways and it's pretty clear that early on G3/Hikawa was modeled after him. At least before Hikawa slipped more comfortably into a comic relief role.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Reds posted:

Hikawa and G3 were my favourite part of Agito.

A friend I was showing Agito to pointed out that if Hikawa was a girl he'd be incredibly moe and I can't say that he's wrong with Hikawa's clumsiness gag.

I still really like Houjou's character. He was a very well written petty rear end in a top hat who did have some good points in the last third of the show.

If Ichijou is the human core of Kuuga, Hojo is the guy at the heart of Agito. He was a great antagonist without being outright evil and even at his worst he was always entertaining.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Acne Rain posted:

mai slapping micchie to rhythm heaven music would have improved Gaim, even if it is your favorite I'm sure you agree

especially if it's your favorite

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

I can't really blame him. Godai's not the most interesting person on the face of it. If you look at him as The Hero he's mostly just a lovable goofball with a ton of determination who gives thumbs up to cops while in costume.

What he does have are great lighthearted moments with the supporting cast and he's kind of like a male version of the "beam of sunshine and vitality in people's lives" sort of girl character. I said it before and I'll say it again, in its peaceful moments Kuuga has a really pleasant "hometown" sort of feel and Yusuke's a big part of that.

Incidentally, the contrast with that is why his last battle was so raw and effective. While watching him, untransformed, beat a man to death I was feeling geniunely uncomfortable. Like, hell, this was a sunday morning kid's show right?

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Reds posted:

No, it wasn't. I don't think it even had the sunday timeslot at that time, although I wouldn't know.

Kamen Rider Kuuga was made with the intention of the director to destroy people's conception of what Kamen Rider was, and he certainly succeeded. For most of the early Heisei KR was a family show and enjoyed very strong ratings as a result with its broader demographic, which is how you get stuff like Faiz where one of the two protagonist murders somebody in cold blood in the first episode then throws himself off a building in an attempt to kill himself. Eventually due to some fuckups the ratings sank and the emphasis on aiming younger to sell more toys rose. Not to say they weren't important in the first place, but still. And then collectible gimmicks became the big seller and things went from there.

I consider Ichijou more of the protagonist between the two anyway.

Ah, good to know.

And I agree.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

AzraelNewtype posted:

Yes. It was. It aired at 8am on Sunday. Rider hasn't changed timeslot since it came back.

Oh, hey, my first guess was right. Wikipedia said the previous show to have its timeslot was a reboot of this so I figured it had to have been a Sunday morning thing.

Burkion posted:

Kamen Rider, with the exception of the movies...well one of them at the very least, has always been a Kids show first and foremost, though it lent itself to older audiences in the past a little bit easier.

Ultraman is the series that typically airs prime time and is considered a family series, even if some outings are just as toyetic as the Toei lot. But where Kamen Rider as a kids show can have a man beat another man to death in the snow blood everywhere, Ultraman as a family show can have...Cosmos.

loving Cosmos.

Imagine if a Care Bear was a toku hero only remove any of the cool things about that idea.

Man, still uncomfortable thinking about it. That was a great ending.

And the knowledge that, yes, this is a goddamn kids' show just hammered it home even harder.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Stallion Cabana posted:

you can have a POV character who isn't the out and out main character though. Like as much as people pan it, something like Final Fantasy XIII is a decent example of that; Vaan never becomes the main character, even though he's the POV character.

You got an extra "I" there.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Skipping Drive to watch Ghost is a bad deal and if it were me I wouldn't take it.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Elfgames posted:

one of them was a loving pug and i had an instant burn it with fire response. also why the gently caress is the elephant the forest representative?

In Asia, elephants live in jungles

incidentally the tiger girl gets the snow theme instead of jungle because the closest tigers to Japan live in Siberia, further north than even Hokkaido (ie. Japan's Alaska)

Runa
Feb 13, 2011


HERE WE GO

COUNT ZERO

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

deadly_pudding posted:

God dammit. I phone-posted that hours ago and apparently I've taught my phone to auto-correct things into "senpai" :v:

nice

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

drrockso20 posted:

Don't know about Sentai, but on the Kamen Rider side of things, it's probably Spider Dopant of all things(at least when not counting any time travel related shenanigans), at least for onscreen kills

I don't really watch the crossover movies so I can't really compare, but in Kuuga the grongi actually kept track of their kills.

Not a ludicrously high number but still morbid amidst how campy it all was.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Mr. Belt is legit.

And his English is spotless.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

John McClane posted:

That's because the dude is Japanese-American and grew up in California.

Nice.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Poison Mushroom posted:

At some point I just kept watching the robot fights because I didn't want the suffering of the poor bastards who have to wear those loving monstrosities to be in vain.



That suit actor's a real trooper.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Kuuga's the sort of show where people try to live their daily lives while monsters commit mass murder games and the police are almost completely helpless to stop them, but the police find an unlikely ally in their own, much friendlier monster. Who also happens to originally have been a good-natured guy who was in the wrong place at the right time, and the only thing preventing him from becoming a true monster like the others is his sheer dorky goodness. It's the sort of show where a guy in a rubber suit pretends to be a karate bugman and beats up other dudes in rubber suits, and then he gives bystanders and would-be victims (usually the police) a cheery thumbs up.

That's literally Kuuga's thing by the way, he gives people a thumbs up. It's great.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Poison Mushroom posted:

Funny story, the one where they dance is actually really loving dark. (The Madoka guy got put in charge of that season. No, we're not sure why they thought he'd be a good choice for a kid's superhero show.)

Yeah, dancing fruit samurai Gaim was probably the darkest KR in a long time and, for all its flaws, is probably the best-written of those few serious and older-audience Kamen Riders. And that's weird as gently caress.

Also Urobuchi got the job because he's always been a big fan of Kamen Rider. He did write Blassreiter after all, though if you don't remember that's fair because who the hell remembers Blassreiter anyway. And on top of that he put a scene in Fate/Zero where Saber rides a motorcycle. If it weren't for the fact that he couldn't write well around the whole toy scheduling thing, and his forcing of a bittersweet(?) ending, he actually worked out pretty okay. When you think about it, he wasn't too inappropriate a choice. Though KR is very much a childrens' toy commercial, the franchise started out comparatively dark and tragic considering its target demo. Which is probably why it's stayed popular for so long, kids can tell when a writer respects them enough to handle some heavy stuff and that translates to some long-lasting nostalgia when they grow up. Urobuchi was probably one of those kids.

It's just weird in a phase 2 Heisei series.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

People defending TVN in TYOOL 2016, lmao

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Also LTW works at a comic shop, by this point vehemence about nerd stuff has to be his default state of being.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

jivjov posted:

How ridiculous

its incredible

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

It looks like a shuffler to me

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

That must've been expensive to keep licensing all those popular songs.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Burkion posted:

Oh My no. Ultra Q does not end.

In fact, one thing you'll be quick to discover- Ultra Q ran straight into Ultraman, and the opening of Ultraman shows this. Ultraman starts out with Ultra Q's opening before smashing into its own. Kind of like how episodes 1 and 2 of Kamen RIder V3 are episodes 99 and 100 of the original.

This is actually pretty cool. I get the feeling it was a very "let's make some TV and see what sticks" sort of situation, where they experimented with the original anthology series and retooled it into a superhero show when they decided to boost its appeal and move from B&W to color.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Elfgames posted:

Drive- didn't watch sorry

smh

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

rip ghost

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

I was originally pretty cool on Drive's designs, especially since Gaim's somehow made the fruit samurai theme really work while Drive's looked more eclectic in comparison, but by the time Gou showed up I was totally down with the aesthetic.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

That's the closest anyone's come to selling me on Ghost

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Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Kaito was righto

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