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FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

Game Over
Return of Mido

Mak0rz posted:

I've tried a good number of them. The problem with them (as with all ROM hacks) is that they are insanely difficult to the point where they are extremely unfun. I've been waiting for an "easy mode" hack of SM Redesign for years now.

Unfortunately, Axeil Edition (an edition of Redesign supposed to be easy enough for Axeil, who did the original LP to be able to beat without as much trouble) did finally release but in an ironic twist of fate people seem to find it harder than the original mostly due to some very stubborn decision-making by Drewseph when he revamped Tourian.

And yeah, randomizers are fun but one of the problems with almost all of them is that while it's hilarious to get really powerful items early but that means the late game difficulty is totally broken or you're stuck wandering around nearly-maxed out looking for that one item that isn't very useful but is totally required to beat the game that you normally would've gotten a few hours ago.

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Mak0rz
Aug 2, 2008

😎🐗🚬

FPzero posted:

Unfortunately, Axeil Edition (an edition of Redesign supposed to be easy enough for Axeil, who did the original LP to be able to beat without as much trouble) did finally release but in an ironic twist of fate people seem to find it harder than the original mostly due to some very stubborn decision-making by Drewseph when he revamped Tourian.

I should check this out! Can you elaborate on the bit about stubborn Tourian decisions? How is the Axeil version harder in that case?

FPzero posted:

And yeah, randomizers are fun but one of the problems with almost all of them is that while it's hilarious to get really powerful items early but that means the late game difficulty is totally broken or you're stuck wandering around nearly-maxed out looking for that one item that isn't very useful but is totally required to beat the game that you normally would've gotten a few hours ago.

I can see it working more for the original NES Metroid and Zelda games, as they aren't as linear and the world designs aren't as tailor-made to getting things in a certain order compared to games later in their respective series. Majora's Mask's time shenanigans and pseudo-linearity probably makes it a better candidate for a randomizer than OoT, especially considering it has an entire extra page of items ranging between "broken or otherwise insanely useful" to "literally just cosmetic except for a change it makes to a single dialog option"

Mak0rz fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Jan 9, 2016

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

Game Over
Return of Mido

Mak0rz posted:

I should check this out! Can you elaborate on the bit about stubborn Tourian decisions? How is the Axeil version harder in that case?

The page for its release is on Metroid Construction's forums. As for the difficulties, I've heard there are some laser barriers used to block progress that have the side effect of two-shotting you (they used to one-shot you) and apparently the Metroid AI is way too smart and actively dodges everything thrown at them while also being very fast and deadly. That part may have been addressed in the latest updates but I'm not sure. Overall it has some REALLY nice quality of life improvements like an active hint system and a really detailed map that probably make it a superior version, but an excess of 25-missile doors and some other difficulty issues stopped me from beating it. I have not played the latest version though, which apparently addressed a fair number of complaints including some of the ones he was more stubborn about leaving alone.

If you (or anyone else) want any other info on it or other SM romhacks, feel free to shoot me a PM so we don't derail this thread too much.

DoctorKill
Jul 23, 2013

W H A T H A V E
Y O U D O N E
T O M Y
B E A U T I F U L
M O O N
Part 4: You Are Tearing Me Apart, Majora

New episode! This time crowe / corn in the bible joins Suspicious Dish and me. This episode is a bit slow, it took me a while to get in the groove of playing, but we do get a few things done. Key accomplishments: getting all transformation masks, finding gold, the Shannara Chronicles.

Given that we found so many great items already, I thought it might be good to add something to focus on for this particular recording session, to make it more interesting. Before we started, Dish picked a row of goals from a "Bingo Board", and I attempted to accomplish them by the time we finished recording. We talk more about it in the episode, but hopefully that sounds interesting to you guys. Let me know if it is.

DoctorKill fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Jan 12, 2016

Suspicious Dish
Sep 24, 2011

2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro
Fun Shoe
Since the bingo board doesn't accept actual strings, I had to do a bit of math to turn MoonMoon into a number.

Here's the code I used: parseInt('MoonMoon'.split('').map((a) => { return a.charCodeAt(0).toString(16) }).join(''), 16)

Basically, turn MoonMoon into hex, and then convert that to decimal.

Also, I spent nearly half of the recording session staring at Wikipedia's "List of trashy reality sex shows" looking for that dumb VH1 show, but I couldn't find it!

InwardChaos
Oct 21, 2010

Before the beginning of great brilliance, there must be chaos.
I found it really amusing that DoctorKill continued to spam the Lense of Truth button while climbing the wall, despite him having unlimited magic.

Old habits die hard, right?

DoctorKill
Jul 23, 2013

W H A T H A V E
Y O U D O N E
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B E A U T I F U L
M O O N
Haha yeah, I didn't even realize that.

Suspicious Dish posted:

Also, I spent nearly half of the recording session staring at Wikipedia's "List of trashy reality sex shows" looking for that dumb VH1 show, but I couldn't find it!

I think its house of cards

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe

Suspicious Dish posted:

Since the bingo board doesn't accept actual strings, I had to do a bit of math to turn MoonMoon into a number.

Here's the code I used: parseInt('MoonMoon'.split('').map((a) => { return a.charCodeAt(0).toString(16) }).join(''), 16)

Ooh, are we playing code golf? Here's my Python version:
sum(map(ord, 'MoonMoon'))

Which doesn't work the same way yours does: it converts each letter into its ASCII identifier and then sums the lot, yielding 818. If you want bigger, more likely-to-be-unique numbers, you could use reduce:
reduce(lambda x, y: x + y, map(str, map(ord, 'MoonMoon')))
That gives 7711111111077111111110, again by converting to ASCII identifiers, but then just bodging those identifiers next to each other to make a giant number-string.

Suspicious Dish
Sep 24, 2011

2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro
Fun Shoe
Python code golf?

Python code:
>>> int(''.join("%x"%ord(S)for S in'MoonMoon'),16)
5579800982871568238
... which shows that JavaScript had a numerical precision issue. drat it.

corn in the bible
Jun 5, 2004

Oh no oh god it's all true!
The Shannara Chronicles is not very good.

Xenoveritas
May 9, 2010
Dinosaur Gum
The best way to describe the Shannara Chronicles is "Game of Thrones if it were marketed to teens." It's blatantly trying to be a Game of Thrones knockoff, except the Shannara books were - well, let's just say I loved them when I was a teenager. They're very "generic fantasy." And from what I've seen of the TV show so far, they're actually being pretty faithful to the books.

Seedy Wizard
Feb 17, 2011

who wants a
body massage
I was wondering if you knew about this weird thing Mico showed off in an LP he did a few years ago. During the part where you get the Zora mask you're able to pick up the Zora dude like a regular object and run around with him. Mico says in the video that it makes you go fast in the water but he doesn't really show it off all that well. I haven't been following the thread so I'm not sure if anyone has shown this off.

KingEffingFrost
Jul 9, 2011

Extreme corset action!

DoctorKill posted:

Part 4: You Are Tearing Me Apart, Majora

New episode! This time crowe / corn in the bible joins Suspicious Dish and me. This episode is a bit slow, it took me a while to get in the groove of playing, but we do get a few things done. Key accomplishments: getting all transformation masks, finding gold, the Shannara Chronicles.

Given that we found so many great items already, I thought it might be good to add something to focus on for this particular recording session, to make it more interesting. Before we started, Dish picked a row of goals from a "Bingo Board", and I attempted to accomplish them by the time we finished recording. We talk more about it in the episode, but hopefully that sounds interesting to you guys. Let me know if it is.

So you Song of Time'd to go back to before you started the run? That... seems incredibly appropriate actually, excellent strat.

DoctorKill
Jul 23, 2013

W H A T H A V E
Y O U D O N E
T O M Y
B E A U T I F U L
M O O N

corn in the bible posted:

The Shannara Chronicles is not very good.

You know I looked and I couldn't find any pictures of elves in skinny jeans, so maybe you're lying about this too, maybe I should be watching it right now

Seedy Wizard posted:

I was wondering if you knew about this weird thing Mico showed off in an LP he did a few years ago. During the part where you get the Zora mask you're able to pick up the Zora dude like a regular object and run around with him. Mico says in the video that it makes you go fast in the water but he doesn't really show it off all that well. I haven't been following the thread so I'm not sure if anyone has shown this off.

I showed off something related to this, I wouldn't do it while playing because there's a chance picking him up can softlock the game.

DoctorKill
Jul 23, 2013

W H A T H A V E
Y O U D O N E
T O M Y
B E A U T I F U L
M O O N
Part 5 - Really Bad Graveyard Time with Bats and Fire

This episode is a bit shorter, and I don't really get any items, so feel free to skip this one! Not that I want you to, but man I had a bad time in this one. Luckily corn in the bible was here to save the day and soothe my pain with Terrence Malick and Wrestling. If either or both of those things are your jam then go ahead and tune in! I do manage to finish one of the assigned bingo goals, so there's that.

Cowman
Feb 14, 2006

Beware the Cow





Terrence Malik is one of the best filmmakers of all time.

corn in the bible
Jun 5, 2004

Oh no oh god it's all true!

Cowman posted:

Terrence Malik is one of the best filmmakers of all time.

Remember when he shot Thin Red Line and then edited out half the cast in post without telling them?

Cowman
Feb 14, 2006

Beware the Cow





corn in the bible posted:

Remember when he shot Thin Red Line and then edited out half the cast in post without telling them?

He was a Philosophy professor but decided he was bad at it so he decided to become a film director and he's become one of the best even though he hasn't made that many movies.

corn in the bible
Jun 5, 2004

Oh no oh god it's all true!
His movies are certainly super pretty even at the worst of times but drat I did not like To The Wonder

DoctorKill
Jul 23, 2013

W H A T H A V E
Y O U D O N E
T O M Y
B E A U T I F U L
M O O N
When you mentioned Tree of Life I thought I had seen it but I was actually thinking of The Fountain so I know who Terrence Malick is even less than I thought I did.

Ometeotl
Feb 13, 2012



It's MISSEL! Or SISSLE!
I confused myself...



DoctorKill posted:

When you mentioned Tree of Life I thought I had seen it but I was actually thinking of The Fountain so I know who Terrence Malick is even less than I thought I did.

You aren't missing much.

Carbon dioxide
Oct 9, 2012

Those black bats are really weird because they're the only bat-like creatures that are actually called bat instead of Keese or something.

Cowman
Feb 14, 2006

Beware the Cow





DoctorKill posted:

When you mentioned Tree of Life I thought I had seen it but I was actually thinking of The Fountain so I know who Terrence Malick is even less than I thought I did.

Tree of Life is really good if you're into the extremely artsy impossible to comprehend cerebral stuff.

Really you should watch Badlands, Days of Heaven and The Thin Red Line.

DoctorKill
Jul 23, 2013

W H A T H A V E
Y O U D O N E
T O M Y
B E A U T I F U L
M O O N

Carbon dioxide posted:

Those black bats are really weird because they're the only bat-like creatures that are actually called bat instead of Keese or something.

The other weird thing about them is that they are strong and terrifying and yet people are more afraid of Iron Knuckles I just don't get it

DoctorKill
Jul 23, 2013

W H A T H A V E
Y O U D O N E
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B E A U T I F U L
M O O N
Part 6 - Learning New Instabilities of the Randomizer

New episode! Some issues pop up in this one that make me scared for future sessions, but let's just call those "possible avenues of entertainment." This one is all about Snowhead, and you get to see how much easier it is going in with fire arrows and not needing fairies. This was also the end of the session so you get to see how far I got in my "bingo."

So I'll admit the last few episodes have been a little slow in regards to content, so in the next session I'm probably gonna try to focus on some specific things instead of just winging it, so there aren't as many whiffs and such. I'll probably start cutting out more stuff, at the very least cutscenes but maybe some failed attempts. We'll see how it goes.

cant cook creole bream
Aug 15, 2011
I think Fahrenheit is better for weather
Suspicious Dish actually did a glitch run of twilight princess once.
It's quite fun to watch But he wasn't able to finish it back then.

Suspicious Dish
Sep 24, 2011

2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro
Fun Shoe
And I did it on the Wii version, which loses a very helpful trick in favor of waggle. I was a loving idiot.

bawk
Mar 31, 2013

I feel like MM Randomizer Bingo races aren't a thing, they should be

DoctorKill
Jul 23, 2013

W H A T H A V E
Y O U D O N E
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M O O N
They absolutely are, but both them and even regular Majora's Mask bingos don't happen too often. Maybe 1 or 2 every week or two. I was actually about to talk about how long they take right before our possible avenue of entertainment. MM bingos haven't been 'balanced' properly in a while, making some goals way better than other ones. So how long it takes to finish them can vary from something like 40 minutes to 1h20m, for good players. Randomizer bingos take much longer since you can't plan anything, usually around 2-3 hours, potentially up to 4 if you have really bad luck.

corn in the bible
Jun 5, 2004

Oh no oh god it's all true!
I got to be in part 6 after all!

CaptianKatsura
Feb 28, 2011

I'm not Katsura, I'm Captain Katsura!

Just a heads up so you don't make the same mistake I did: the ocean spider house only gives you the reward once. So if you don't hand that land deed into the swamp in this cycle, you will never get what replaced the swamp deed. My first randomizer run was ruined when the spider house wallet was replaced with a powder keg, since it meant I could only ever get one, and I beat the spider house at night so I couldn't do the ranch stuff.

Edward_Tohr
Aug 11, 2012

In lieu of meaningful text, I'm just going to mention I've been exploding all day and now it hurts to breathe, so I'm sure you all understand.
Holy poo poo, I tried this as fcommas and just...

I think MoonMoon was the wrong choice, guys.

Mak0rz
Aug 2, 2008

😎🐗🚬

Edward_Tohr posted:

Holy poo poo, I tried this as fcommas and just...

I think MoonMoon was the wrong choice, guys.

Well? Come on. What does it do?

Edward_Tohr
Aug 11, 2012

In lieu of meaningful text, I'm just going to mention I've been exploding all day and now it hurts to breathe, so I'm sure you all understand.
The big thing is getting the Razor Sword from buying the shield. There's a few other interesting swaps, but I don't want to give too much away. :v:

Oh, and it also gives you the letter to Kafei instead of adult's wallet, so be aware of that if you try it.

DoctorKill
Jul 23, 2013

W H A T H A V E
Y O U D O N E
T O M Y
B E A U T I F U L
M O O N
Part 7: Breaking Weapon Laws, Fighting Aliens, Peddling Conspiracies

New episode! This time ChaosArgate joins Dish and me and helps us do all the things I just mentioned in the episode description. No bingo this time, but I had a specific set of goals I set out to achieve so there's a lot less flailing about. A lot of what I do in this episode will build up to stuff I do in the next, so make sure you pay attention!

One annoying thing is that I accidentally recorded the audio stream I was sending to Dish and Chaos, so I got my voice and the game audio on the same track. Because of that there will be a few audio quirks since I couldn't edit easily, but it's nothing too bad. Sometimes the game audio gets a bit loud.

KeiraWalker
Sep 5, 2011

Me? Don't worry about me...
Grimey Drawer
All your sword troubles would cease to be a thing if you could stumble across the GFS somewhere...

SystemLogoff
Feb 19, 2011

End Session?

Your video is set to private for some reason, just as a heads up.

Captain Bravo
Feb 16, 2011

An Emergency Shitpost
has been deployed...

...but experts warn it is
just a drop in the ocean.
So, I don't really know a lot about Majora's Mask speedrunning, but why did you guys red out "3 Temple Compasses"? You got one, and there were still two temples left, right? How come you can't get the other two? Or is it something about the randomizer that prevents you from getting three compasses?

tiistai
Nov 1, 2012

Solo Melodica

Captain Bravo posted:

So, I don't really know a lot about Majora's Mask speedrunning, but why did you guys red out "3 Temple Compasses"? You got one, and there were still two temples left, right? How come you can't get the other two? Or is it something about the randomizer that prevents you from getting three compasses?

From what I've seen people use it, red doesn't really have a fixed meaning in the bingo board. Seemed like in this case they were using it just to signify "a part of this goal has been done".

Another way to use red would be in, say, OoT Beta Quest (aka. entrance randomizer) bingo where some people use it to mark a goal that has become technically possible to finish with the current inventory and knowledge of entrances.

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DoctorKill
Jul 23, 2013

W H A T H A V E
Y O U D O N E
T O M Y
B E A U T I F U L
M O O N

SystemLogoff posted:

Your video is set to private for some reason, just as a heads up.

I keep forgetting this! It's just I usually notice much faster than this.



Captain Bravo posted:

So, I don't really know a lot about Majora's Mask speedrunning, but why did you guys red out "3 Temple Compasses"? You got one, and there were still two temples left, right? How come you can't get the other two? Or is it something about the randomizer that prevents you from getting three compasses?

And yeah tiistai is right, sorry for being unclear. It just meant that I did part of it, and I know I wasn't really consistent about that, since I didn't use red for other stuff. I just did it for the end.

KieranWalker posted:

All your sword troubles would cease to be a thing if you could stumble across the GFS somewhere...

Possibly, but like I mentioned in the episode the goal of this session was "sword stuff," and finding gilded sword but having the swordsmith still take it ended up being a really good result toward that end. I'm fine with how that turned out.

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