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How is private property enforced in Libertarian land? What is there to stop me from me and all my friends forming an army and killing you to take all your stuff? If there is a police force, how is it funded? How is it equipped? What's to stop the police from joining my merry band of marauders and helping us take over the town through force? Or let's not even go that far, but let's say that I steal your wallet by picking your pocket, how are you going to get it back? If I destroy any identifying information kept within the wallet, how will you prove that I stole it from you? Who What Now fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Oct 9, 2015 |
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Oct 9, 2015 15:36
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jrodefeld posted:I'm going to throw in a curve-ball here and talk about another so-called "property" right that isn't actually property at all. That is what is called Intellectual Property. Libertarians oppose the existence of so-called "intellectual property" at all. But why would that be? The reason is that property is only a coherent and useful concept when it applies to things that are scarce. Copying a movie cannot be theft if you owned the original that you made a copy from. No one else was deprived of any physical possession whatsoever. Since copying can be done, theoretically infinitely, without depriving anyone of their copy, there is no scarcity and no theft. Patents on inventions present a similar case. Ideas are not scarce. If you freely share an idea and someone emulates or improves upon that idea, society is all the better off. This is patently absurd, because ideas are scarce. Ideas and inventions do not just spring from the æther fully formed like Athena from Zeus' head, they take huge amounts of effort and most importantly time, and I'm not sure if you're aware of this because you love wasting so goddamn much of it, but a person's time is precious and highly limited. By dismissing the concept of property rights you are asserting that a person's time and efforts are simply worthless and that the only thing that matters is material production. But what, then, is the incentive for anyone to come up with a new idea at all? They won't be able to sell it, because the market will immediately be flooded by identical products. And time spent working on new inventions and new property will be time not spent earning wages to afford the necessities to live. So what incentive is there for someone to devote themselves to building something new at all? Also, it's pretty goddamn obvious you've never read the rules to these forums or else by now surely you'd know how the thread tags work. poo poo Post indeed.
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Oct 9, 2015 16:04
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Nolanar posted:JRodimus! I don't know why you bothered with a new thread. Your statist oppressors can find it easily enough, and you cannot escape your past. Mods I humbly ask that you wait until he scurries off like the coward he is before banning Jrod this time. EDIT Karia posted:Which is why we waste so much of our time arguing with Jrode. Because that's an effective use of our precious and highly limited time. I never said people were rational with their limited time 
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Oct 9, 2015 16:50
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SedanChair posted:Come on, you know the answers to all this poo poo. In a libertarian society (which jrodefeld seems to be arguing has never been implemented but at the same time, through property rights, is somehow the only form of true society that has ever existed) there will be no war. Because blah blah blah incentive arbitration all covetousness will end. Yes, but I want him to say it because it's funny. Also I want to lead him towards admitting that, like all libertarians, he will gladly support either fascist police states or lynch mob justice so long as he is on the side doing the oppressing and not the side being oppressed.
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Oct 9, 2015 18:32
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Also, I just noticed that Jrod joined these forums the very day I was married. I... I don't feel good about that. 
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Oct 9, 2015 18:34
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Caros, you beautiful bastard, don't let anyone ever tell you to stop effotposting at Jrod. They are only trying to lead you towards the dark side of shitposting.
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Oct 10, 2015 15:10
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Jrod, what are your feelings on White Guilt?
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Oct 10, 2015 20:23
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jrodefeld posted:Define "oppression". There's no reason to respond to a post like this but it makes a clear point nonetheless. You know the libertarian ideology fairly well by now after all that I've posted. You obviously cannot think that any libertarian would support a fascist police state. Remember the loving non-aggression principle I remind you of every other post?! It is literally the starting point of libertarian ethics. You, like all libertarians, do not and have never actually believed in the Non-Aggression Principal. You are more than willing to defend and even participate in unwarranted aggression if you believe you can get away with it. Your other posts extolling the virtues of lynch mobs proves this. You are immoral to your core, but are held in check by your cowardice.
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Oct 11, 2015 22:26
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Jrod, no one here really cares about Triple-H and his racism in this thread, we care about you and your bigotry. It just so happens that you get your bigoted views from people like Hoppe because you're an ignorant child who is incapable of thinking for himself, only parroting (or plagiarizing) from other libertarian "thinkers". That said, are you willing to recant your sexist statements about the existence of welfare sluts?
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Oct 12, 2015 13:40
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Arglebargle III posted:Property is eft. hosed up if true.
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Oct 12, 2015 14:08
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VitalSigns posted:Reminder that jrod is the guy who became a Libertarian FTFY
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Oct 12, 2015 17:53
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VitalSigns posted:It goes on from there, pro-week for the libertarian thread This post also serves as a reminder that Jrod believes that an insanely racist and sexist email forward actually happened in real life. "It's not the blacks' fault they're all lazy welfare queens, their inferior minds cannot help but fall into the devious trap of government handouts!" And then has the audacity to say Malcolm X would be on his side.
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Oct 12, 2015 17:59
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Me and my wife just bought a house, along with me getting a new full-time job, adopting some pets, and a ton of other changes have been adding a ton of stress (both "good" and bad) to my life, which has been playing hell with my depression and means I haven't been able to participate very much in my hobbies or passions in order to destress. Thankfully this thread came along and has helped a little bit. So thanks, J to the rod to the efeld. But besides this I enjoy modeling Warhammer 40k (I hope to have a 500 point Imperial Army done by sometime in 2035), writing short-stories, although I'm not nearly as talented enough as Caros to get published, playing MGSV, Mad Max, Witcher III, and looking forward to AssCreed: Dapper Dan's Victorian Adventure, and Fallout 4: The Falling Out. And finally I love Pen&Paper RPGs, even though I haven't had a group to play with since I moved, and I'm even developing my own P&P about being a mecha pilot who controls their warsuit by plugging gigantic The Matrix style data-spikes into their brain and nervous systems. So look forward to that sometime around never. So now hopefully you can start viewing us as real flesh and blood people and not "Left-Progressive" straw men like you've been doing for the last three years.
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Oct 16, 2015 14:23
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Also, Jrod, I just want to remind you that on top of everyone else's offers my offer to debate you on your stance of ethics that I made in the other thread still stands as well. You have no shortage of opportunities to have the one-on-one debate you're asking for. You just have to actually nut up and accept.
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Oct 16, 2015 17:59
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YF19pilot posted:I also apologize for my cis-gendered privilege and using the word "men" when I actually mean "people, all of Humanity." All this line served to do was make you look like a massive whiny tool.
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Oct 18, 2015 06:11
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Ron Paul Atreides posted:man Colorado must be a real shithole look at that discount Primo price in Kansas, though. And there's no way that'd eeeeeeeever turn out to be a bad investment a couple decades down the line.
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Oct 19, 2015 22:52
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Literally The Worst posted:because by having only two parties that "matter" any votes for a party you actually agree with are in vain The best solution we currently have is to align yourself with the party that is most in line with your personal beliefs and work with it to move towards the changes you want to see, which can be done through a number of ways like speaking directly to the congressmen from your district and to work more closely with state and local elections where your efforts can have a bigger impact. The solution is not and almost never is "burn down everything and rise up from the ashes of civilization as a band of bloodthirsty marauders" which as we all know by now is where Libertarianism inevitably leads.
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Oct 19, 2015 23:37
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Tesseraction posted:Just to say, though, what you describe is not a democracy in any way. The method you describe is a plaster over the wound of a non-democratic state. When your political choice is to attempt to democratically alter one of two ruling parties, you have to question the validity of the process. Wait, how is democratically changing society not democracy?
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Oct 20, 2015 01:21
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FYTc55nGEI
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Oct 22, 2015 19:04
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HorseLord posted:i like how the yank constitution has basically no human rights provisions but people say poo poo like this Why do you even care? What's your dog in this fight and what the gently caress does it have to do with Libertarianism?
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Oct 22, 2015 19:24
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HorseLord posted:Libertarianism is america's fault. You decided to oppose socialism and naturally vomited it's polar opposite all over the place. Actually it's socialism's fault for not being good enough. Way to fuckin' ruin the world, Stalin, you inept dipshit.
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Oct 22, 2015 19:44
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 HorseLord posted:yeah honestly stalin should have nuked the white house Stalin was too stupid to bring socialism to the west, would have resorted to violence like a brain-damaged animal. An interesting take on things.
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Oct 22, 2015 20:13
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HorseLord posted:Like straight up, explain how you lose 77 million people out of less than 160 million in less than 15 years (alleged stalinocide + ww2) but the population doesn't actually shrink all that much All the survivors had 6 babies. Population increases when babies reach adulthood. HTH
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Oct 22, 2015 20:24
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HorseLord posted:"stalin's actual fuckups" are all things that the western bourgeois neither understood, or would see as bad things if they did. so that's why they resorted to making so much poo poo up Stalin's actual gently caress up was that he couldn't even get socialism right and had to leave the job to superior western nations.
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Oct 22, 2015 20:50
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Tesseraction posted:Historians mention natural disasters. What was the natural disaster that Stalin caused. Did that motherfucker summon a volcano? I hate4 it when Stalin does that. Everyone knows that Stalin had earth- and ice-magic while Roosevelt had energy manipulation and could commune with birds (specifically eagles).
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Oct 22, 2015 21:01
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SedanChair posted:posting when others are powerless to respond is satisfying Works for Jrod
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Oct 23, 2015 02:11
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Libertarianism: blacks, Jews, Muslims, Irish, women need not apply (not racist/sexist for realsies)
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Oct 28, 2015 14:59
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DROs are how I know for an undeniable fact that Jrod is outright lying when he says he believes in the non-aggression principal. He, like the libertarians who do his thinking for him, loves the idea of Men With Guns and monopolies on violence. Their real problem with the state has never been that it coerces its citizens with the threat of being blown away by the military, their real issue is that they aren't in control of it. They want to be the ones wearing the jackboots as it presses down upon the necks of the proles. They want to be the ones with the power to get back at those they hate, be they blacks, women, or that slut in the seventh grade who wouldn't go to the Saddie Hawkins date with them.
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Oct 30, 2015 14:12
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TheRamblingSoul posted:Yeah, it reminds me of the similar conservative (read: racist) argument as to why single-payer nationalized healthcare only works in homogeneous countries and never could be possible in the U.S. "Too many darkies" gets thrown around as to why gun laws will never work in America too.
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Nov 1, 2015 01:23
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Nolanar posted:Well, let's find out! On a scale of, oh let's say, 0-18, lower being worse, how bad is it?
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Nov 3, 2015 16:08
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Twerkteam Pizza posted:I would not be surprised if this actually happened Good news, I, several other people, and one public notary all saw it happen.
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Nov 10, 2015 21:03
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Nolanar posted:And that notary's name was Albert Einstein. Well I wasn't gonna be so gauche as to name-drop him
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Nov 10, 2015 23:12
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loving lol at Jrod trying to pretend Hong King doesn't have massive poverty problems. Nearly 20% of all people there live below the poverty line. But they aren't literally starving to death in the streets, so they can conveniently be ignored.
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Nov 17, 2015 20:21
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VitalSigns posted:Not that I think people should own slaves morally, but here's why the South was completely in the right. Slavery is wrong, but obviously it's better to have slavery than have to pay the tyrannical US income tax (but the Confederacy's income tax and conscription are just fine with me, somehow) But, you see, slavery was on its way out naturally anyway. Literally seconds away from being abolished, had the mean federal government not started its War of Northern Aggression. Furthermore *unending fart sounds*
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Nov 18, 2015 16:31
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VitalSigns posted:As long as my taxes go to finance the armed forces enforcing the institution of slavery, and not to baby formula for some welfare queen. My friend's cousin's uncle's roommate's friend is a BLACK woman and when she went to get her welfare check they told her to kick her curb to the man and get a new babydaddy in order to get more welfare but she said no because she is One Of The Good Ones. Not let me explain how welfare destroyed the black community and made them into slaves again because without the threat of starvation their natural laziness prevents them from getting jobs and what, no, that isn't racist stop calling me racist!
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Nov 18, 2015 16:47
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Jrod, why would you post the Cato Institute's study without actually understanding the methodology it used? Did it never occur to you to actually sit down and take a look at how the list you were presenting as proof that libertarian economic policies were superior to non-libertarian economic policies and actually do the least bit of due-diligence to vet that list? You should have taken a look at those top ten countries and looked up what sort of policies they actually have and how those policies mesh with your own framework. But you didn't, because you're intellectually lazy and don't like to take critical looks at the beliefs that are dictated to you from on high. Nearly half of those countries have single-payer healthcare systems and strong social safety nets provided by strong federal governments. Are those now things that you as a libertarian support? Or are you talking out of both sides of your mouth again? This isn't the first time you've posted a study, article, or opinion piece that you clearly didn't read very closely, if at all, and obviously never had a full understanding of either. When it comes to someone who calls themselves a libertarian you have absolutely no sense of credulity or skepticism. For gently caress's sake you spoke about the existence of welfare queens as if it were gospel truth and not a myth that was thoroughly debunked before Reagan even left office (and to my knowledge you've still not recanted your claims of women who's sole purpose in life is having multiple kids with multiple babies to game welfare for the maximum amount of money, despite it being so grossly misogynistic it should have been immediately obvious that this was a hosed up and untrue claim, but since it meshed with your worldview you assumed it must be true). And because of this when the huge, glaring flaws of your citations are pointed out to you you get put in a spot to either admit that, yes, the citation was heavily flawed and shouldn't be taken as seriously or to defend them using post-hoc rationalizations. So far you have only ever chosen to do the latter, and you have always failed at it until you leave in a huff (weird how your life always seems to get hectic when you're backed into a philosophical corner, huh?) or you try to "redirect the thread". And then you have the gall to accuse us of being unwilling to change our minds when shown direct evidence contrary to our positions? gently caress you, you child, Caros and another poster (sorry I'm forgetting your name, but you're a cool dude) have both made substantial posts about how socialized/nationalized healthcare trumps privatized healthcare by every single significant metric and you have ignored them for well over a year! Sorry, sport, but if you want to talk to the adults and be treated like one yourself then that poo poo just ain't gonna fly.
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Nov 19, 2015 15:31
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The whole study is a huge cluster gently caress of claiming that correlation is causation. It's literally just saying "these countries have [x] which we call good, and are good countries, ergo [x] made them good countries". It implies, if not outright asserts, that it's criteria is both exhaustive and relevant to each nation's economic prosperity without actually showing it. It's a worthless study from start to finish.
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Nov 19, 2015 17:26
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If we're seriously considering debates I still want my debate on the topic of morality and ethics with Jrod. Audio-only via Google Hangouts is actually preferable, but if he wants it done written that's fine too, I'm guessing by way of some sort of editable Google doc or pastebin. I'm willing to work around you, Jrod, to make this happen, so whatever that takes I'll do it. Morality and ethics should supposedly be your strongest suit and I'm objectively one of the dumber posters in this thread, so if you have even the slightest bit of confidence in the validity of your position this should be a no-brainer for you.
Who What Now fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Nov 19, 2015 |
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Nov 19, 2015 18:19
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Caros posted:I called dibs you son of a bitch. I will fight you IRL. You wouldn't threaten to fight me IRL to my face, fucker!  Also, for reals Jrod take Caros' offer before anyone else's. I'm just offering you a babby's first debate option too. I will also fight you IRL, after everyone else who called dibs.
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Nov 19, 2015 18:32
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theshim posted:All I can think of with all the "fite me irl" posting is this I would sell myself into slavery to watch Obama in an MMA match with any of his political opponents.
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Nov 19, 2015 18:59
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