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Muscle Tracer posted:How would the crimes of children be handled by a DRO? If little 8 year old Johnny gets into his neighbor's SUV and accidentally backs over their indentured gardener, is he responsible for manslaughter, theft, trespassing, or all three? Or are his parents the ones who get whacked? How white are Johnny, the neighbor, and the dead
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Nov 3, 2015 21:13
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OwlFancier posted:Libertarian MAD is an eye watering concept. 
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Nov 3, 2015 23:49
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KennyTheFish posted:A quick question, does the state exist at all in these libertarian utpoias? how much power does it have, how does the politic work? Sometimes it does as a vestigial nightwatchman entity with little authority besides reflexively protecting property/prosecuting property crimes; usually it has entirely vanished, alongside all those troublesome minorities it once so coddled.
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Nov 4, 2015 03:27
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KennyTheFish posted:So how do the corporations exist without it? It seems to me the web of contracts and whatever with the DROs would very quickly descend to good old fashioned hereditary feudalism. Nononono, that would never happened, not at all because, because you see, *loosens tie, runs hair through increasingly disheveled hair* the market would necessarily intervene in those cases where- and I don't mean "intervene" here like those statist men with guns but rather that mutually involved arbitrators who, yes, would need on occasion to be armed, *begins sweating noticeably* but that's not reason to think that devolution into feudalism, which wasn't even that ba, err, uhh HELP THIS GUY'S AGGRESSING AGAINST ME!!! *mashes Valhalla DRO panic button*
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Nov 4, 2015 03:36
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:So how does the NAP deal with second hand smoke? Well since you haven't proven that it wasn't errant cosmic rays or, conceivably, vengeful leprechauns, that caused your lung cancer, after careful review your DRO has decided to take no action and informs you that any further allegations of "aggression" against rational tobacco consumers or indeed against PolluTech itself will result in the cancellation of all coverage.
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Nov 9, 2015 14:31
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theshim posted:Ia! Ia! Lincoln fhtagn! "No of course I don't long for a resurrection of the Ante-Bellum South or mourn the brief-lived Confederacy, what on earth would give you that idea?" *posts thousands of words about how secession wasn't that big a deal then and should be legal now, as well as why Lincoln was worse than Hitler by a substantial margin*
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Nov 9, 2015 22:19
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QuarkJets posted:Ron Paul is a huge racist Ron Paul is a huge racist?
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Nov 10, 2015 14:24
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Who What Now posted:Good news, I, several other people, and one public notary all saw it happen. How have you found time to post here during the busy campaign, Dr. Carson?
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Nov 10, 2015 21:15
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TLM3101 posted:Keep in mind that it's now one month or so since his last couple of posts... And the obligatory reminder that in one of them he held up literal slave-states as something the US should aspire to, because those states were more 'economically free'. The depths of Jrode's stupidity may literally be infinite. Getting him to acknowledge he lauded literal slave states should be the next watermelon-test when he posts again/a new thread. Lord knows I'm not going to leave it alone either!
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Nov 17, 2015 17:09
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TLM3101 posted:There are, as far as I can see, two possibilities here, and both are equally vile and disturbing. Either, JRode's recokning of economic freedom follows what you've said here, and he simply doesn't care whether an economy incorporates slave labor, which is abhorrently cynical and callous. Well there is a third possibility: he just copy-pasted that list from mises.org without really reading it. Given his known history of plagiarizing things he's not entirely read, I'd not rule it out.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:32
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Disinterested posted:Also he'll cite Walter Block who supports slavery. And also secession wasn't, and isn't, about slavery and white supremacy at all why would you think that.
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Nov 18, 2015 03:52
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Halloween Jack posted:My best guess is that the Cato Institute defines "economic freedom" here as "big corporations are unopposed except by each other." As opposed to, say, some utopia where the technocratic innovator and the Jeffersonian citizen farmer work hand-in-hand. You're mostly right, but they don't have much of a problem with your second scenario as both of those are more or less code words for "well-off white dudes" in libertarian-speak.
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Nov 18, 2015 17:02
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jrodefeld posted:How is it a contradiction that a specific study by a libertarian group, Cato, ranks the various countries by their adherence to economic liberty but not personal liberty? Each study has parameters and a defined scope. That hardly means that something outside the scope of this particular study is somehow not important to libertarians as a group. No, you don't get off that easily, ace. Time and time again you've tried to hit us over the head with how economic liberties are human right, you don't get to arbitrarily hive the one off from the other when you get caught using an argument that lauds literal slaver states for being "more free." Seriously, what good is that Cato study, and why on earth should we grant it any credence whatsoever? What possible use would be considering the other, non-slaver nations it cites as "more free" than the mean ol' regulatory US when it ranks them using metrics that allow slavers to also be that high in the mix?
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Nov 19, 2015 14:44
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TLM3101 posted:And what do you think it tells me about your ideology when you keep loving defending this poo poo? That reminds me of something I asked in an earlier iteration of this thread but have never heard answered adequately: has Jrod ever admitted being wrong about anything, without heavy qualification? Of all the instances he's been called out for being wrong about history, health care policy, or well anything really, I can't think of an instance in which his response has been "you know what, I'm wrong about this and it does call into question my larger libertarian position about [THING]." At most, we've gotten, "well I didn't know about that aspectthough I'm still not wrongI'll have to give it some serious thought before responding" and then just trying to quietly drop it like he never brought it up to begin with.
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Nov 19, 2015 18:16
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Caros posted:I called dibs you son of a bitch. I will fight you IRL. It's been a while, remind me: Were you among the handful of goons who did that google hangout session with Eripsa last year or whenever about marbles and whatnot? If so, I'm beginning to worry you're addicted to arguing with the mentally ill.
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Nov 19, 2015 18:42
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GunnerJ posted:Think you might be waiting a while for an answer here, buddy. "Economic liberty and personal liberty are two separate things that have nothing to do with each other, in this and only this specific case."
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Nov 19, 2015 18:48
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Caros posted:Nah I missed that one. I know SedanChair was on that one and it was hilarious watching him kick the poo poo out of Eripsa. Ah, gotcha. I had mixed you up. Yeah, I follow Eripsa's threads as they appear much like this one (watching Synereo fail to even live up to the worst-case predictions everyone made is pretty hilarious), but I do get a little worried about you guys who really engage earnestly so often. I mean yeah, it's admirable that you make such an effort confronting such stupid (Eripsa) and hateful (Jrod) bullshit, but I gotta wonder just how healthy that much Abyss-staring is. Then again, I post in the freep thread. Who What Now posted:I would sell myself into slavery to watch Obama in an MMA match with any of his political opponents. Especially a doughy, po-faced loser like Cruz.
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Nov 19, 2015 19:00
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ToxicSlurpee posted:I'd talk to Jrod and ask him questions and debate him but he has literally never responded to a single one of my posts. Ever. Much, though not all of his unwillingness to respond come from him not posting here to actually debate. Like most libertarian posters, he's here to proselytize and proclaim the Good Word to us unwashed heathens. The rest of his unwillingness derives from his deep-rooted cowardice, inadequacy, lack of bladder control, and manifold other personal failings.
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Nov 19, 2015 20:43
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Literally The Worst posted:What do you expect from a watermelon fucker He actually finally denied being a watermelon fucker during his last bout of posting!
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Nov 19, 2015 20:51
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Nolanar posted:Everything else he's ever posted has been wrong. Why would this time be any different? I just found it remarkable that he finally went on record with an answer one way or the other, to be honest.
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Nov 19, 2015 21:44
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Halloween Jack posted:You call off your dogs, I'll call off my dogs! *does not actually call off own dogs, and indeed actively unleashes them at the sign of slightest vulnerability.
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Nov 19, 2015 22:05
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Who What Now posted:Jrod has gone on record that there's no way the native Americans were using that much land. I mean, let she serious here, most of them didn't even have fences! And it doesn't count if you don't have a fence. If anything that's one of the most bankrupt elements* of his whole fetishization of homesteading: how he pretends the frontier was somehow virgin, untouched territory for hearty *there are many others.
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Nov 20, 2015 00:02
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Ah look, he's claiming Lysander Spooner as a libertarian fellow-traveller again. At least he's learned to not name him directly this time, I guess that's something.
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Nov 20, 2015 02:21
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Nevvy Z posted:Now you want to enslave doctors too! PUT DOWN THE GUNS!!!
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Nov 20, 2015 17:55
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Guilty Spork posted:Seriously, there are just so many cases where I look at libertarian proposals for how to set things up and go, "We tried that, and then we stopped because it killed people." Health care is complex and messy, but unless your only metric is adherence to Libertarian Magic Principles, socialized medicine as seen in the UK and Canada is just plain better for ensuring the greatest number of people are healthy. In those cases, suddenly the greater utility of UHC suddenly doesn't matter anymore and Jrod switches over to his morality argument where, regardless of how much better UHC (or anything else) is for society, it's intolerably immoral because he didn't consent
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Nov 20, 2015 19:04
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Literally The Worst posted:You left out where he claimed it wasn't actually slavery, just a lack of union rights Well you see there's Legitimate Slavery (income tax), and then there's Really-Just-a-Labor-Dispute-Which-We-Shouldn't-Get-That-Worked-Up-About (actual loving slavery).
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Nov 21, 2015 15:55
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Zanzibar Ham posted:I suppose no matter how extreme a viewpoint there's always one more extreme. And sooner or later Jrod will unintentionally cite it.
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Nov 21, 2015 18:21
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Ron Paul Atreides posted:or; why the left can't win in North America Splittist! *splits* GunnerJ posted:Haha this reminds me that they were literally squatting in the ruins of abandoned Indian villages after disease had killed or dispersed the local population. They were just plucking success from virgin nature or whatever the hell Jrod's latest euphemism is.
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Nov 27, 2015 20:05
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E: double post.
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Nov 27, 2015 20:06
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TLM3101 posted:Didn't JRode, in fact, use just that argument at one point in the other thread? Or am I getting my Libertarians mixed up? I don't know that Jrod's made that particular argument, but we did have a libertarian many years ago who's
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Nov 28, 2015 19:20
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QuarkJets posted:If you look within your heart then you'll find that the gilded age was actually a point of peak freedom, and therefore prosperity, for the entire country. Furthermore, *lets out an enormous wet fart* Well as one old-school, massively overweight, and questionably hygienic prostitute aficionado once said, motherfuckin' Qualnor posted:Free markets tend to make everyone either middle class or rich unless they're in some way disabled. Look at early American cities. Laissez faire wasn't perfect, but there was very little government intervention and the vast majority of people were middle class.
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Nov 29, 2015 15:56
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Ron Paul Atreides posted:but uh the that's not true at all like a cursory glance at history shows you that Qualnor was/is an unbelievable idiot, even by libertarian standards. Not for nothing did he spawn the phrase, "Oh no, it's someone who knows something about anything, qualnor's one weakness!
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Nov 29, 2015 16:37
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VitalSigns posted:"Middle class" begins when most of your children are only crippled by malnutrition instead of killed and ends somewhere slightly below the Vanderbilts Qualnor was also a master backpedaler who put Jrod's paltry ability to obfuscate and equivocate to shame. From that example I gave above, he first claimed his only mistake was to say "vast," then to claim he only was talking about cities (because Laissez faire only exists within capitalism, which doesn't really exist outside of cities), then well no he didn't really know much about cities of the Gilded Age but that doesn't matter because he really was only talking about the colonial through Ante-Bellum period, then that yes though there were a lot of slaves back then they were only slaves because of government laws so it's not the market's fault, which finally lead to this devastating reply, Hot Dog Day #91 posted:Slave codes dont exist until 1705 so what are they before they were legally slaves hmm Qalnor hmm? Which finally got him to tuck tail and run.
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Nov 29, 2015 17:05
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Literally The Worst posted:thank you for linking that poo poo and reminding me that i actually wanted to reread that thread now that archives are back No problem. I think it's good to remember that for despite how despicable his opinions are and wordy his posts, Jrod's really fairly tame compared with some libertarians we had to deal with back when they were in their heyday. As far as I can tell, there's no reason to think Jrod doesn't bathe on a regular basis, nor that one of his underlying motives in desiring a stateless society would be unfettered access to prostitutes.
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Nov 29, 2015 17:10
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:
As Literally The Worst mentioned, he "won" the Worst D & D Poster contest back in 2008, by a fair margin as I recall. And your mental picture of him is close, but he wasn't nearly that punctilious about his appearance. Think a shambling garbage pile which hadn't cut or combed its hair a month and was carrying a well-worn copy of "The Fountainhead."
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Nov 29, 2015 17:57
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spoon0042 posted:All that's important is that the state doesn't have a monopoly on force. Yeah, you have to not think about it too hard and ignore how it's never worked out in human history. (oh right, and throw in some handwaving about free markets.) ((Libertarianism in short right there.)) Since I'm apparently in nostalgia mode today, I'll remind everyone that our old standard rejoinder to most/all libertarian treatises was: "on the other hand, all of recorded history." spoon0042 posted:Not that I can think of anything specific but that sounds like one of the less objectionable things happyelf would be known for. Dude was king of the ignore list for a reason. Yeah. Time was, people bought banner ads specifically to advise people to put happyelf on ignore/beg the mods to not let him off probation.
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Nov 29, 2015 20:55
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Ron Paul Atreides posted:Sometimes I am sad I was not around for SA's shitposting heyday but it's probably more entertaining in retrospect than it was at the time. Yeah, it's better remembered than endured to be honest.
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Nov 30, 2015 18:04
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VitalSigns posted:Oh my God, that thread links a von Mises article praising Somalia's Libertarian Warlordism. Oh, you don't have to go back to 2006 to find a mises article praising Somali totally-not-warlordism. quote:Economists familiar with the Rothbardian tradition have taken the analysis even further, persuasively arguing that Somalia is much better without a state than it was with one. The standard statist put-down — "If you Rothbardians like anarchy so much, why don't you move to Somalia?" — misses the point. The Rothbardian doesn't claim that the absence of a state is a sufficient condition for bliss. Rather, the Rothbardian says that however prosperous and law-abiding a society is, adding an institution of organized violence and theft will only make things worse. quote:What is particularly amusing is the complaint that businesses currently must pay private security firms to guard their goods. Well, a government police and court system won't work for tips — they too will need to be financed, but through involuntary taxation. As with any monopoly, the government's provision of a "justice system" will be more expensive — other things being equal — than the provision through private, competing agencies. quote:I have answered the generic "warlord objection" to anarchy elsewhere. Regarding Somalia in particular, Ben Powell et al. have done fantastic work analyzing Somalia before and after its transition to statelessness, and also comparing its fate with similar African nations. Their conclusion is that — of course — stateless Somalia is no paradise, but its lack of a corrupt, brutal government has given it an advantage over its former self and its current peers.
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Nov 30, 2015 20:43
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:I don't think hired security in Somalia is exactly competing for your patronage. It's more like a "pay us or die" kind of ultimatum. Well that doesn't make any sense. As we know, coercive violence only comes from state entities and anyway if a private actor was so belligerent toward their customers surely those customer would patronize someone el-*is clubbed, tossed into the trunk of a Lada, and later burned alive*
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Nov 30, 2015 22:11
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paragon1 posted:Tell you what, we'll call it a generalized Currency and Crazy People talk so we'll do that and goldbugs too. I was busy last time and still a little hesitant about the whole concept, but you guys seemed to enjoy the last one so consider me provisionally interested in the next one. Caros posted:Can we amend a couple of minutes to Eripsa's fever dream Synereo? Because I have been waiting to laugh about that for a while. It's a mild pity thanksgiving is over, as his thoughts on the optimal way to plan that dinner are...interesting to say the least. Buried alive posted:So...the arguement is that stateless-Somalia is better than brutal-dictatorship Somalia? I mean..okay, I guess. No one is saying that states never go wrong, just that they're less likely to wrong and to not go as wrong as stateless societies. Way to strawman. From their perspective, all states are equally bad due to the immorality inherent within their involuntarist structures and all that poo poo.
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Dec 1, 2015 04:10
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