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I will say that I don't really agree with Turn-A as a 'beginner" Gundam. It's a good show but it's kind of rooted in thoughts about the series.
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Oct 12, 2015 01:59
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Kanos posted:His name was supposed to be Bring Stability. His name actually was apparently supposed to be Bring Stabity and was supposed to be a 'distorted' version of Bring Stability. They even called him Bring Stabity in the official dub.
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Oct 12, 2015 15:18
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Razzled posted:So dudes who watched all of G-Reco, I liked it well enough for the first 4 episodes but there was so much other good poo poo on easier to get sources (CR and Funi for me) that it fell off my radar. Worth going back to watch in full? Also is there anywhere legit to watch them? If you enjoyed the first 4 episodes keep going. Those are basically the make-or-break it test.
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Oct 12, 2015 21:51
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Divisive is probably better. Controversial would be "Gundam SEED Destiny is a great show" or something.
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Oct 12, 2015 22:13
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I really like that The Origin was like "hey guys we got a custom GM that is basically a very slightly stripped down Gundam, who gets it?" and everyone just pointed at Sayla. It sounds kind of fanfictiony until you watch the original Gundam and realize that Sayla seriously has the highest kill count out of anyone not named Amuro on the White Base.
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Oct 13, 2015 05:15
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Tae posted:Wait, did sayla get some extra kills in the tv series, or did hayato/Kai had a massive kill drought? Once Sayla gets the G-Fighter she's generally getting multiple kills any fight she contributes in, including pulling off some stunt flying poo poo in one or two episodes. Kai is probably the most effective MS pilot behind Amuro. Hayato is... Hayato is the Krillin of the team. Dude is there to feel kind of crappy and even has an episode where he gets shot down and has to recover and Fraw talks to him about how Amuro is cooler than he is.
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Oct 13, 2015 15:35
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Logicblade posted:Shakti is kind of disappointing. "Oh no war is coming, maybe if I hide and pretend like it isn't happening I'll be fine." Also I don't think Bespa has heard of these things called war crimes... They heard about them and think they are fantastic ideas. Tae posted:I just remember Kai getting a big headstart on the killcount starting with the Winds of War battle, then the Garma Ambush, the desert battles, etc. He still got a lot of kills at Jaburo and space as well, but I haven't really watched the TV version in a long time. Kai didn't get a ton of kills early on, though he was great at supporting and pushing Zakus off cliffs. He becomes more kill-competent after Miharu dies.
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Oct 13, 2015 16:03
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In theory the uncombined victory is a bit faster than the combine form and so it can get to where it needs to go faster and then combine for fightin'. On top of that it is lower profile.
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Oct 13, 2015 20:33
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Neddy Seagoon posted:There's probably someone somewhere furious about how popular Gundam is with the housewife demographic. It depends on the show but the lady audience for Gundam is not insignificant. Classic, Wing and SEED all pretty much thrive on it and 00 was a pretty bald-faced attempted to cater to the same demographic who made SEED popular.
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Oct 14, 2015 17:58
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Sharkopath posted:I think the only demographic that's underrepresented is actual kids, mostly. Yeah, Gundam has been having huge problems with kids. AGE, BF and G-Reco were all theoretically aimed at kids. AGE bombed, BF I think largely got Gunota and G-Reco was too Tomino for words. They wanted that Danball money so bad but kids are like "haha gently caress you, yokai watch time."
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Oct 14, 2015 18:29
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Chronicle gave us one good thing. I'd post it but it's a spoiler.
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Oct 15, 2015 22:18
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Just like Zeheart.
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Oct 15, 2015 22:43
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I would, no lie, watch a 25 episode series of "Luin Lee and Klim NIck gently caress around and get blitzed."
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Oct 16, 2015 19:24
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Droyer posted:One thing I think The OVA did well was how it never really went into detail on Marida's backstory like the books did (I think). She should have survived though, se was the coolest character in Unicorn Nah, it does. It doesn't go into excruciating detail but she has a flashback which makes things real clear.
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Oct 21, 2015 20:14
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A character dying doesn't mean their life was pointless and Marida's arc influenced both herself and those around her, including her death. I don't think she needed to die but it wasn't like all her development and impact on others vanished when she did.
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Oct 21, 2015 22:44
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Oh Snapple! posted:Maybe technically but it's the kind of needless death that detracts from things like that by basically frustrating viewers who chose to invest in the character only for the same ol' poo poo to happen yet again for no actual narrative gain. There is narrative gain. It's just that (and understandably frustratingly) it is for other characters. Zimmerman, for example, loses his daughter again but in doing so is able to avoid falling into the same cycle that caused him to end up in that same position again. We see an example that Zeon CAN break out of the eternal cycle of revenge even when something terrible happens again. Riddhe is kind of blatant and obvious. One thing I think is missed is that Marida's death is portrayed as her becoming a true Newtype instead of the cyber-Newtype she was before. She gets to ascend and become something more than human even if it means losing her humanity which plays into what happens near the ending It is, however, still unsatisfying because regardless of how it thematically makes sense it is still "oh look, Cyber Newtype Girl Dies Again For A Dude's Character Development."
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Oct 21, 2015 22:54
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The argument of "there wasn't a giant instant shift in humanity, ergo everyone who has any form of optimism is wrong" is really silly and ignores that nobody expected people to change overnight. Amuro has a semi-famous speech where he says people can't change overnight and he doesn't expect it.
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Oct 22, 2015 15:44
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But where do Klimton Nicchini and his friends Mick Jack, Turbo Brocken, and Cumpa Rusita play in? Not to mention his father Zuchini Nicchini.
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Oct 22, 2015 16:59
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tsob posted:You ignored quite an important part of that line of argument, which was that it wasn't just in the short term that nothing changed, but in the long term too. Shows like G-Reco and Turn-A demonstrate that even after literally thousands of years, nothing has changed. For one, it's absolutely pointless to hold other shows in a franchise against it, especially ones created afterwards. The themes of a story do not suddenly get retroactively 'ruined' because someone published a lovely sidestory to sell a new model kit. And even beyond that, those shows do the opposite of what you've said. Both G-Reco and Turn-A demonstrate societies that are significant less warlike than those that came before. Turn-A in particular is a minor skirmish in the scheme of things. The idea that shows that have conflict in them demonstrate that the idea is wrong is silly because it doesn't contradict it at all. It just means that if peace comes, it is a peace that won't have mobile suits and won't have war and so won't be a very interesting show for people looking for those things. It doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
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Oct 22, 2015 18:09
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closeted republican posted:Don't forget the random side story Federation dude that managed to get even more kills than Amuro. That honestly makes sense. Amuro was tearing through aces and prototypes more than mooks
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Oct 22, 2015 18:53
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Ernie Muppari posted:who the hell's johnny ridden? He's an ace best known for basically being made to sell a custom model kit. (The joke is that his Zaku is more famous than he is.) He is also red (but a darker shade than Char) and is dubbed the Crimson Lightning. Another in-joke is that people mistake him for Char and attribute his kills to the more famous Red Comet sometimes. In-character he's kind of a generic dude whose only meaningful character trait was being Kycilia Zabi's secret love interest.
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Oct 22, 2015 20:44
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closeted republican posted:Don't forgot his fellow character made to sell more model kits in arms, Shin Matsunaga. Everyone forgets about Shin. Shin Matsunaga is more boring. He's the same thing as Johnny Ridden except his suit is white and instead of being Kyilia's love interest he is Dozel's
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Oct 22, 2015 21:57
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muike posted:That's way better, to me. You'd think it would be way better but Matsunaga has the personality of a brick.
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Oct 22, 2015 23:16
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Raxivace posted:Random question, but there's been a like a million variations of the 0079 story at this point between all of the games and comics and books and so on...have any of these alternate takes on the story ever featured Amuro straight up defecting to Zeon with the Gundam, and then explored the ramifications of that? No. The closest you get is the Gundam novels where the White Base crew defects to Zeon. Amuro, however, is dead by that time.
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Oct 25, 2015 04:16
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closeted republican posted:I was never able to get a bead on Riddhe besides "must protect and revitalize family honor, boner for Mineva, overall felt annoying". The long and short of it is that Riddhe is someone who grew up in the wake of a war that murdered most of humanity and also someone who benefits from the status quo that war left behind. So he has the reasonable argument of "holy poo poo the OYW killed billions of people do you really want that to happen again?" and the less-reasonable-but-understandable viewpoint of "Well, things aren't so bad for me, so the former Zeons should just suck it up, why are they rebelling anyway?" This is complicated by him being a Newtype so he's like "man, that Minerva lady sure is Newtyping my Newtype" which is corrupted by the fact that he legitimately thinks Newtypes are hugely hosed up and will cause the war to start again, not in the least because he is aware of what the charter says and thinks that the mere existence of Newtypes legitimizes Zeon. (Something that Banagher and Mineva don't agree on by the end.) He's not a likable character in that he is a tremendous douchebag but he is a well-realized character with mostly sensible motivations.
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Oct 25, 2015 20:53
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Lemon Curdistan posted:By series: It should be noted here that AGE is a prototype specifically based off a machine from the distant past and G-Self is a prototype based off blueprints from the distant past. So both of those are prototypes but still based around robots from the distant past.
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Oct 26, 2015 20:49
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Honestly really it is interesting to think about. SEED is pretty much the only modern Gundam where the protagonist suit either isn't or isn't based off of legendary robots from the past, almost all of whom are some variation on the Gundam RX-78-2. (And that is just because SEED is retelling the RX-78-2 instead.) Without even thinking about it much Gundam has become a series about new people trying to emulate or recapture the classic. Kinda fitting for Gundam as a whole.
ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Oct 27, 2015 |
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Oct 27, 2015 00:36
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The 0 Gundam is decades old and the result of a hundreds years super-project. If you're gonna quibble over that then you should point out that the Gundam X is only a few decades old too! Gundam X is still treated as a legendary robot from the past despite Jamil piloting one. The exact amount of time matters less than the portrayal.
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Oct 27, 2015 00:58
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Droyer posted:That's also true, but I assumed you didn't include X in 'modern' It's probably too old but honestly the fact it goes back that far just kinda underlines it. (Though it's less fair to X because it was before that became a long-running trend.) It's just interesting to think about how "based on/is an ancient Gundam" has become about as much of a part of Gundam as Char clones at this point. Monaghan posted:It's one appearance is that time with setsuna and it's regulated to a turret in the last fight. Every gundam on 00 is te result of a super project. They aren't really treated as legendary. 0 Gundam is absolutely presented and treated as legendary by the show itself. It isn't 'iconic' to anyone but Setsuna but Setsuna being the protagonist makes that kinda key. Flit is the only one who really cares about the legendary Gundam in AGE but it still fills a similar niche. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Oct 27, 2015 |
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Oct 27, 2015 01:03
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Droyer posted:It hasn't though? Three shows have done it (four if you count X). Even if the plan in 00 is hundreds of years old the robots aren't. I'm not sure why you're sticking with "hundreds of years" in this case when Gundam X does the exact same thing with a couple of decades tops. I said "from the past."
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Oct 27, 2015 01:07
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Droyer posted:Everything is based off something from the past. By that logic you should include the Mk.II The difference there is that the Mark II is based off a show that actually aired so the context is a bit different Even then, yes, within the context of the show the Mark II is explicitly them trying to recapture the original Gundam. It's the stated purpose of it being a Mark II in fact. With the newer shows they all basically (to lesser or greater degrees) have a "original Gundam" that didn't air but none the less sets the stage for things and who the protagonists are emulating. It's like most of the shows start at Zeta Gundam instead. It's a bit iffier with Wing prior to Frozen Teardrop but I think we can all safely ignore Frozen Teardrop. SEED is the exception only in that it actually is presenting its original Gundam variant which isn't really any more original. 00 Gundam literally has a predecessor which is just a slightly altered redesign of the RX-78-2 Gundam and it's even piloted by Amuro Ray. It's really not subtle. The franchise is kind of bogged down in the original show even with alt-universes.
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Oct 27, 2015 01:16
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I gotta say "Chirico" and "enjoys his job" are two things I would never tie together in a billion years.
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Oct 27, 2015 03:35
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X really has nothing sequel-like for Wing. The closest comparison is that it is a version of the OYW where everything went to (more) poo poo instead
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Oct 27, 2015 03:41
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Kanos posted:"You're turning into Hitler", the sovereign ruler says to his oldest son, the supreme commander of a space army undertaking a war of aggression. His oldest son takes it as a compliment. I think it's less that he takes it as a compliment and more he's like "You call me Hitler? I'll SHOW you Hitler old man!"
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Oct 27, 2015 15:09
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tsob posted:Given the complexity of the designs I'd put good money on it being CGI. Not that I mind personally. I've never gotten the fuss a lot of people kick up about it. Well-done CGI is good and fine. The problem is that a lot of CGI tends to be really lovely and low-budget CGI looks a lot worse than low-budget cell animation in anything short of "Gundam is literally a square box" level low-quality animation.
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Oct 28, 2015 22:00
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I am sort of legitimately upset you didn't include Gouf under Not A Zaku.
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Oct 29, 2015 01:21
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Lemon Curdistan posted:I have to say, overall The Origin is great, but there's a couple of bits I still don't like. Char randomly being a Guntank ace at age 8 is stupid, and the characterisation changes to Jimba Ral and Kycilia aren't great. The changes to the scene where Kycilia executes Gihren are especially bad, since she shoots him in cold blood and her "if any of you disagree, press charges after the battle" line is gone, which removes one of her few redeeming qualities. Char isn't really a guntak ace at Age 8. It's literally sitting in the cockpit and shooting. Jimba Ral is honestly pretty much in-line with how he's portrayed in his few appearances. He's crazy and paranoid and passes that along to Char. I also think you're misremembering how Kycilia kills Gihren in the show. It is absolutely in cold blood.
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Oct 29, 2015 16:43
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Lemon Curdistan posted:He's an 8 year old with zero piloting/gunnery experience who kills three or four Guntanks (crewed by actual soldiers) on his own by "literally sitting in the cockpit and shooting." He is facing soldiers who literally were not expecting to be fired on. Also he is a Newtype and "A Newtype is uncommonly capable when thrust into a mobile suit" is Gundam.txt Lemon Curdistan posted:This isn't the case in the show, either (because all you hear of him is Sayla saying he was a nice old man). It is the case in Tomino's novels which are where the Origin draws a lot from. A lot of Gundam material is established in Tomino's novels and was gradually adopted afterwards. Lemon Curdistan posted:She's as angry in Japanese (and her internal dialogue calls him a "patricidal monster"), and the line about filing charges is there in both versions. I'm confused what your complaint is about the Origin version to be honest. She is noticeably disgusted by his action there too. I actually agree with you about M'Quve's weird heroic last stand though but other people are right in that it is an ongoing trend for the character. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Oct 29, 2015 |
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Oct 29, 2015 18:15
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Lemon Curdistan posted:There's significantly less build-up (she doesn't sit down and do a bunch of work and talk to Char in-between asking where the Great Degwin is and deciding to shoot him, she doesn't call him a patricidal monster, there's no "stop joking around" exchange between them) and the line about filing charges (which suggests she's willing to face the consequences of her acts) is replaced with "if anyone objects, speak up now" when she has her hand on her gun and a platoon of armed soldiers behind her. Kycilia being scheming is again something that was presented before. She was building her own corps and preparing for a coup relatively early on in the show. The only real question is if it was just against Gihren or if she would have gone after her father too. Kycilia was literally the person for attempting to weaponize Newtypes, she is supposed to be pretty unpleasant. Material (again, including the Tomino novels) make it pretty clear she's not Gihren level but she is just below him. Degwin equates the two of them in his mind while lamenting Garma's death. I have to check my copy of The Origin when I get home but what I recall of that scene is that the moment she figured out what Gihren did she flips which if anything stresses how disgusted she was by it, not that she cared less. I also think you're taking the 'file charges' thing at face value when she pretty clearly didn't mean it in that fashion. She's effectively saying "No, shut up" as opposed to going "I did something wrong." A lot of The Origin draws on the post-TV material, especially the novels and errata, but that's the sort of thing where Gundam has made a good chunk of that either soft or hard canon for quite some time. The Origin effectively takes Tomino's Gundam novels and melds them with the series, which would be more glaring if not for the fact that a ton of Gundam material effectively recognizes that stuff already. I can't even remember if General Revil's "Zeon Is Exhausted" speech is mentioned in the TV show for example. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Oct 29, 2015 |
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Oct 29, 2015 20:35
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Char has a reputation as a badass entirely because he is an opportunist. That isn't even subtext it's basically how he works. When he finds an opportunity he exploits it while reaping the rewards. It's pretty much straight how he killed the Zabis.
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Oct 30, 2015 17:02
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