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I don't have any real problems with Tomino's world building; it's his character development that gets wonky. I recently finished Zeta Gundam and loved it overall! But man, that stuff with Reccoa near the end was incredibly strange. Even Kamille, Katz, and Amuro's developments feel kind of sudden. The audience is shown perhaps two or three scenes between Reccoa and Char, and yet that's enough development to justify her leaving AUEG? The key to enjoying Tomino shows (for me) is to imagine that characters are making decisions based on reasons or emotions the audience is not shown. You really have to roll with events and try not to nitpick. To Srice's point - the incidental dialog can be really great at times, but the really important stuff can be downplayed or glossed over too much. For example, Henken's affection for Emma was well developed and his sacrifice makes sense. Yet we have very little idea why the Titans are still so obsessed to take out the AEUG when the real Zeon (their stated mission...) show up. brainwrinkle fucked around with this message at 00:48 on May 7, 2016 |
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May 7, 2016 00:45
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Sure, one can infer that pretty easily in retrospect. But why isn't there a 30-second scene of the head Titans guys sitting down and stating that before they enter into negotiation with the Zeon remnants? Hell, you could characterize Sirocco more by having him gloat about how he will play everyone in his internal monologue in this theoretical scene. I feel like other directors make far more concessions like that to make sure the audience understands. Tomino just rolls with it and hopes you get the idea.
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May 7, 2016 00:56
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Also seriously what the gently caress was he trying to do with Reccoa's plot in Zeta? Can someone explain it to me?
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May 7, 2016 01:02
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I remember Jamitov saying that he wanted to rule everyone by using up the resources of Earth, forcing everyone into space where he was the dictator. In standard Tomino form it's one scene somewhere in the middle of the show and never brought up again.
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May 7, 2016 16:47
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Sarah played him like a fiddle, and it was both hilarious and tragic. Katz is a great character in Zeta.
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May 11, 2016 12:36
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Darth Walrus posted:We can at least all agree that while it's not perfect by any means, Alia in GBF gets the best Cyber-Newtype plot arc so far, right? Aila definitely has the best cyber-newtype plot in Gundam. I really like how the relationships between characters developed in GBF. Also all the background character cameos once the finals start. GBF is the best Gundam show to watch after Zeta because it is a complete palette cleanser. The GM Sniper K9 battle was the best too.
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May 27, 2016 00:23
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Patter Song posted:Hello Gundam thread! I suggest 00 because it is pretty different from other Gundams. If you like the first season, expect to be disappointed by the second.
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Jun 23, 2016 04:42
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I'm slowly working through ZZ after picking up the Blu-rays on sale. It's ... something alright. I'm warming up to it after adjusting to the change from tragedy to comedy. Tomino has some good moments, but his comedic stuff is generally more miss than hit for me in the Gundam setting. It is fun seeing Bright get totally owned repeatedly by these wacky teens. Roux and Mashymyre are also pretty fun. I can't believe this aired immediately after Zeta Gundam. I'm really glad I took a few month break in between so that I don't hate this. Also, the OP is great.
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Sep 15, 2016 05:24
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What the hell was Anaheim Electronics thinking when they designed the Double Zeta? What a weird Gundam.
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Sep 16, 2016 04:35
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Moon Moon was some of the best ZZ so far. Judau is hilariously ineffective at getting his sister back. Beecha is an rear end in a top hat.
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Sep 21, 2016 00:56
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Near the end of Zeta, all actions characters take have dire consequences. People die, they lose friends, wars are won and lost. In the beginning of ZZ, nothing results in serious consequences at all. No one besides Judau cares that his sister is captured or tries to help rescue her. Beecha and Mondo try to get their friends killed multiple times to make a profit, yet no one tries to arrest them. The villains get their men killed, but are held back from being scary by ridiculous comedic character flaws. Bright just doesn't give a poo poo anymore. Hell, Judau pilots the Zeta and ZZ without really acknowledging that he could be killed. That especially seems like a departure for the main Gundam pilot. It's such a weird, jarring tonal shift for the setting in continuity. I think it really works better when they dial up the wackiness, so Moon Moon is great, Mashymere is great, and Chara is great. Everything else feels like children playing at war incompetently. I don't dislike it, but I'm so glad I took a few months break in between the series.
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Sep 21, 2016 05:39
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Okay, the two parter Cecilia the Crybaby episodes are like classic Zeta episodes stuck in the middle of ZZ. I hope this is the trend back towards serious plot lines.
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Sep 29, 2016 00:35
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Good. It's not Gundam if the protagonist doesn't experience the horrors of war.
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Sep 29, 2016 01:03
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Judau, your suicide bombing plot to get your sister back might be your best attempt yet. That's a little sad. He's really not the brightest Gundam protagonist.
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Oct 3, 2016 05:37
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The Dreissen is cool as gently caress. We finally get a villain who is ready to rumble.
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Oct 3, 2016 05:45
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I'm now halfway through ZZ. It's starting to get good again, and I'm excited that we appear to be mostly through the goofs of the week period. Overall, it's still pretty disappointing that the beginning is so weak compared to MSG and Zeta. I encourage any ZZ fans to explain why they like the first half. I don't hate it, but it doesn't really feel like Gundam to me. The US Bluray release is really good quality.
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Oct 3, 2016 18:49
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I never found the AEUG characters to be very funny. Bright has some good moments, and Judau is a big clown overall. However, Judau's crew really falls flat for me. It feels like they have no depth and not enough personality to be funny. The villains do an excellent job of hamming it up and failing in funny ways. They seem to be mostly sidelined at this point, sadly.
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Oct 3, 2016 19:19
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Goddamn, War in the Pocket is really excellent.
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Oct 8, 2016 20:15
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drat, the two parter "rescue" of Leina in ZZ is intense. It's up there with the best of Zeta. Roux is the best: "Stop being such a wimp! If you wallow in sentiment, you'll be the next to die! That would make Leina's death completely meaningless."
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Oct 22, 2016 19:28
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Roux feels like a Zeta character who accidentally ended up in ZZ instead.
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Oct 22, 2016 19:37
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I just finished the Blue Corps episodes of ZZ. I think this Africa arc of ZZ is even better than most of Zeta. It has Glemy being a maladjusted Napoleon wannabe, political factions outside of the greater war, and Roux being a badass. Even the side characters were great. Elo becomes disillusioned with his side and takes down about 5 mechs on screen. The artistic genius has some great scenes with Glemy and Roux, and Elpeo Ple actually feels like part of the team. Beecha is a massive shithead as usual. Oh and Roux gets to pilot the Gundam ZZ and takes out 3 opponents more efficiently than Judau has ever managed.
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Oct 29, 2016 23:43
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Beecha is the worst. Why do they put up with his antics?
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Nov 2, 2016 04:12
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Evidence for ZZ Gundam being a good show: Judau punching the Federation leaders is extremely good. Also consider Fa saving Bright and Judau from a fire by ramming a jeep into a building. Finally, we have Bright's one liner about why they went to Dublin, "I came to shed tears after being smothered in smoke." I'm beginning to believe that Gundam ZZ is very good. The first half is tonally inconsistent, but not bad. I'm willing to chalk it up to a weird experiment. e: Kamille is back, baby! Excited to see how much more suffering he can endure. brainwrinkle fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Nov 2, 2016 |
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Nov 2, 2016 05:02
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Dang, the ZZ docking sequence is directly responsible for Hayato's death.
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Nov 3, 2016 01:12
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I can't believe Leina faked her own death to get away from Elpeo Ple
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Nov 3, 2016 02:10
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If she wanted to get away from Beecha, she could have just stayed with Glemy (aka Neo Zeon Beecha)
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Nov 3, 2016 03:57
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Beecha finally stops captaining the Nahel Argama to go out in the Hyaku Shiki. The very next Neo Zeon line is "What's happened? The enemy is suddenly getting more coordinated." e: omg more Moon Moon next episode, yes!! brainwrinkle fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Nov 5, 2016 |
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Nov 5, 2016 01:02
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The editing and music direction really take a dive in the Rasara's life episode. One second you have a chase scene with Stampa in a mech, cut to Rasara's emotional death with Mondo and her sister, and then cut back to wacky chase with funny music. The plot also totally jumped from the mech battle at Stampa's stronghold straight to everyone back at the Argama in dock. These are some weirdly paced episodes. I get that the show is trying to introduce the levity from the beginning again, but it's just gruesome when people actually die during it.
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Nov 7, 2016 02:21
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I wish the concept/theme of "Haman isn't a bad person at heart" was a little better explored or fleshed out in ZZ. Characters keep saying this, but she doesn't really prove it through her actions. I guess she's less overtly evil than Glemy in most ways, but she did organize another colony drop. Her trying to recruit Judau is also strange. I guess she is supposed to be a lonely, hard hearted person who is trying to shoulder responsibility? If she got to him in the first 15 episodes, it would have worked for sure.
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Nov 9, 2016 01:41
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That "I'll never forget that you loved me" line sure is strange. Roux obviously acted as if she hated Glemy. Does it mean that she secretly liked him, or that she was disgusted by being loved by a megalomaniac? She says "I'm sorry" and cries a single tear right afterward, but she was killing someone in semi-cold blood.
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Nov 9, 2016 02:57
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Well, I finished ZZ. It was inconsistent, but pretty interesting and entertaining. I felt like the ideas were better than the execution most of the time. In the end, the civil war accomplished everything that the Shangri-la kids could not. Though I think Haman's plan of exterminating humans from the Earth was probably more realistic than whatever AEUG were going for. Glad that Judau hosed off to Jupiter with Roux. Bright deserved that punching.
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Nov 9, 2016 03:52
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dazat posted:Hey all, I read this one earlier from a link on Twitter. It's really interesting! I liked the background on the character designs, and how excited he was to see cosplayers. Thanks for translating these.
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Nov 10, 2016 14:21
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Watched CCA. Not sure how I feel about it. It's basically a Gundam series condensed into a film, I guess? It often felt like the characters were just going through the standard motions after Zeta and ZZ. They don't really get enough time to develop everyone. It is difficult to feel the emotional impact of characters' deaths when you barely know them. While I understand that Char's manipulation of Quess was tragic, I didn't feel it nearly as deeply as Reccoa and Scirocco. The ending felt rushed and kind of dumb. That said, I was really enjoying CCA until the last quarter or so. They did a good job of contrasting the Earth bigwigs to normal citizens by tying that into Bright's family. The battles were well animated and interesting. The character relationships made sense and drove the plot.
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Nov 13, 2016 02:30
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I think Zeta has a pretty good ending if you ignore the fact that ZZ aired immediately afterwards. It's just massively depressing.
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Nov 13, 2016 06:01
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Having recently finished ZZ, I would say that it gets good starting at Moon Moon, and you're almost there. The beginning is a slog though.
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Nov 21, 2016 01:29
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Raxivace posted:It's still super weird to me that Sayla pops up in ZZ. It's such clumsy and blatant CCA foreshadowing.
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Nov 23, 2016 05:17
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I don't hate CCA, but I'm fairly lukewarm on it compared to Zeta. It feels like the conflict between Amuro and Char is just retreading old ground to me. While including Hathaway and Quess allows the story to reinforce how badly adults treat children, the compressed runtime makes it harder to care about them or their fates. I thought the evolution between Amuro and Char in Zeta was far more interesting. I also wish there was some bridge between Zeta Char and CCA Char so his strong convictions made more sense.
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Dec 17, 2016 03:00
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I like the ZZ for being a massive piece of poo poo. It's endearingly bad. As for the actually good ones, the Zeta, Turn A, Gundam X, and Barbatos top my list. I like the sleeker, meaner looks of the Zeta. The asymmetry of the X and the satellite canon appearance and concept win me over too. Barbatos for the reasons listed above. Turn A for being unique and having cow transport capabilities.
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Feb 23, 2017 03:24
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I've built something like 10 kits now and I still trim with the X-Acto because I'm too lazy to sand.
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Feb 23, 2017 05:34
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Zeta can be a little slow at times, but I felt that its pacing is pretty good for a 52 episode show. Characters get lots of time to develop, villains plot, fights happen, then people switch sides or die.
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Mar 6, 2017 14:51
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