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chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



ImpAtom posted:


I have to wonder at what point people will just accept SEED is popular.

I've grudgingly accepted it for years.

What I've seen of the movie has moved me from "grudging acceptance" to "amused acceptance".

Seems that the movie actually looked at the things that didn't work about Destiny and actually addressed them, including leaning into the aspects of Kira's character that are kinda interesting, rather than the flawless paragon that late Destiny went with. Hard for me to not respect that.

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chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012




The funny thing is, the guy pictured isn't an antagonist. He spends the whole second season on the same side as the leads.

They'd probably have been better off if he had been trying to screw them over, really, since the guy on the other side was really, really competent.

Really, though, even the absolute worst people Post Disaster were just regular lovely, without the crazy apocalyptic goals that most shows reach.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Arc Hammer posted:

The wannabe clown freak piloting the Gusion doesn't need apocalypse goals but he's still a crazy fucker who uses child soldiers. It's kinda hilarious how people keep trying to pull out doomsday weapons like mobile armours or dainsleifs. They're certainly nasty business but on a more immediate "fucks your mobile suits up pretty bad" level than a button that erases all existence, a photon torpedo, colony buster, murder coffin death star or psychic newtype shockwave. Even McGillis hauling out the Bael to try and instill some mythical symbol of justice that will rally people to his cause is met with little more than a "cute antique, boy."

It's oddly down to earth at the end of the day compared to some other AUs.

Yeah, even the superweapons in IBO are marked with a name, instead of "To Who it May Concern". It's another area with some pleasant contradiction, since the setting had the most widely cataclysmic war in Gundam (Sure, X and the UC might kill more people in its backstory, depending on 99 percent of Earth Vs. 25 percent of a colonized solar system, but it's hard to say The Moon Will Always Be There with how hosed up it got in the Calamity War.) but the superweapons we see in action have to be targeted towards one person in a MS, even if they kill one person an awful lot of times in a row.

It's similar to how it's arguably the most high tech setting (well, aside from the lost tech in G-Reco and Turn A) with perpetual motion engines, artificial gravity, 200 plus year lifespans for the rich, and Mars terraformed to shirtsleeves conditions... but the show's focused on poor kids in the muck, and the most effective way to kill a hyper-advanced mech is to smash the pilot with a building sized hunk of metal.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Gripweed posted:

The villain did need to improve society somewhat though. Tekkadan had shown how fragile Gjallarhorn had become. By liberalizing society he reduced future the chance of future rebellions.

It's also something that completely fits with what characterization we got for Rustal prior, including his big speech. He's got a lot of the same DNA as Vetinari, but as an antagonist in a less comedic setting. That is, he's a firm believer that

"They think they want good government and justice for all, Vimes, yet what is it they really crave, deep in their hearts? Only that things go on as normal and tomorrow is pretty much like today."

He doesn't care as much about the specifics of the system as he does that it's stable and more-or-less suited to the general will of the public. Setting off a war with false flag attacks and conducting major political reforms are both acceptable routes to that goal. He's less interesting as a person and as an antagonist if he's just going to twirl his mustache and make everything worse after winning.

Edit: It is the case that the last five episodes were adjusted for a lighter ending, though, yes. Writers wanted something to balance viewer investment, so they talked to the director about toning down the original plan. (This came after the producer had gone "I love it! Maybe Kudelia can die too? Just spitballing.")

chiasaur11 fucked around with this message at 08:00 on Apr 4, 2024

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Runa posted:

Not gonna lie this was one of the reasons why large chunks of Zeta felt aimless compared to the OG. There's just not a lot of feeling of the context around the Gryps Conflict outside of what Kamille can immediately see.

Zeta's much worse about it than the original, but there are still scenes and characters that give some indication of a wider war, if only because the parts of the cast we aren't following are implied to be doing something. Gryps exists, it's just that it doesn't have clear form.

ZZ doesn't even have that, with the EFF somehow managing to hit an all-time low in both morals and competency, and then somehow managing to sell off some-or-all of an independent political power without anyone noticing or caring.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Gripweed posted:

Allenby spinoff but it's an isekai

Well, last isekai Gundam was pretty good. Might be interested.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Warmachine posted:

War stress.

On the other hand, Cima and Bright aged better despite having even more stress.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



WrightOfWay posted:

Bright looked 35 at age 19.

And 35 in his 40s. On the net, it's not the worst deal.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Gaius Marius posted:

That rumor was completely false

Yep. Loran's early designs were more masculine, not less.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



gimme the GOD drat candy posted:

the thing you have to remember is that sleggar was a super hot chad.

He was supposed to be based on Stallone, but Yas never saw Rocky.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



gimme the GOD drat candy posted:

the titans were 100% motivated by fear of spacenoids increasing the hotness gap.

I mean, Emma's representing Earth pretty well there.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



The dub makes at least one choice late in that is so much better that I have to recommend it. But it's not for a ways yet, so I can understand reluctance if you're not going in for dubs much already.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Onmi posted:

My appreciation for CCA and Char/Amuro's rivalry is how much Amuro is very much not interested. This is a job for him. For Char this is the greatest showdown with his destined rival and he's obsessed with crafting the perfect finale (that of course ends with Char winning and he actually doesn't care how clean that victory is because he's full of double standards and always has been) but Amuro's just like "God loving drat it gotta stop the god damned Axis drop Char you stupid fuckwit." My absolute favourite part is when they get out of the Mobile Suits in Axis, and Amuro gets on the radio and gives his call out to Char Aznabel being a bitch rear end motherfucker.

I also like when Amuro remembers he has a gun.

Just "I wanted this guy to stop bothering me so much I forgot I could just shoot him. That's so much better!"

Sadly, Quess had to ruin everything. (A running theme with Quess.)

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



chrome line posted:

He has maybe the most death flags I've ever seen

What's Gundam's record for death flags survived? I'm still thinking Takaki, but I'm willing to be proved wrong.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



McTimmy posted:

Where was all the crying for Rusty, Athrun.

Athrun didn't really know Rusty, is the thing. He's unknowable.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



I have complicated feelings about 00. When it works, it works, but when it doesn't it can be pretty frustrating.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Zedd posted:

00 S1 is great
00 S2 is uneven as hell but averages out to perfectly service with a IMO great finale.
I can't call the 00Movie Good but I love it in a :catdrugs: way.

I mostly disliked season 2, but the finale was amazing. Did a lot to redeem the whole set.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



ImpAtom posted:

You know, I really hope the next mainline Gundam isn't a super tank. I feel like between Phase Shift, GN Particles, The AGE System's magic bullshit, Nano-Laminate and the Aeriel's insane super barriers I just kind of want to see one that is more focused on raw dodging.

I know Gundams being super tanky is there from the start but I'd like to see a bit more of the "rocket tag" danger element.

I think IBO came across a bit different there (then again, I like the show so I'm biased) in that everything was tanky. Random grunt suits could be repaired after taking blows that destroy asteroids, and the default for how people outside Gjallarhorn got mechs was "I found it just sitting around in a battlefield where it had been drifting for 200 years. Just needed someone to turn it off and on again, give it a new paint job."

There, the tankiness was a show-wide aesthetic, not just a way for the Gundam to be better than the grunts.

Meanwhile, the Gundam in Victory loses limbs like it's being paid for it. Interesting contrast when looking back.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



SatoshiMiwa posted:

I kinda of get why G Gundam didn't resonate with Gundam fans at the time as it probably was a bit too different from what Gundam was before to work as the first AU. If it was like the second/third or if it was marketed like Build was than it would of probably got a warmer response at the time

It was a hit, though. Better ratings and toy sales than Victory, got the series back on its feet and let Wing be a solid success.

It was X and Turn A that flopped. (Turn A getting a 50 episode run was basically Sunrise doing one for the art.)

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



chrome line posted:

G Gundam did fine but they do seem slightly embarrassed by it today, judging by the modern gunpla. I think it's fair to say it not being particularly Gundam is a big part of why once it wasn't on air it didn't have the staying power that Wing did but was still way better off than the other 90s Gundam

Four MGs before Wing got any, five mass release HGs that still get semi-regularly reprinted, a RG and a Hi-res for the God in the last five years, and new mold HGs recently for the supporting cast, in addition to mass rereleases for the old kits.

As for cultural footprint, Pokemon had the Sekiha Love Love Tenkyoken in 2019, and Ultraman Z had the Shining Finger in 2020. That's some pretty good length of time to still get referenced for no staying power.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Waffleman_ posted:



Silver Bullet Suppressor is so funny

Banagher's love for his big, big gun does a lot to make him feel more like a character rather than a narrative void saying "protagonist here".

Like, Kira Yamato wanting a massive death rifle, that's so he can use it for peaceful purposes and he'll put it away for something more moderate as soon as he can. Amuro just takes what does the job. Even Heero Yuy is trying to put his superweapons away for good.

Banagher, though, Banagher could wax melodic right there with Sledge Hammer on how good it feels to fire a hand cannon.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Gaius Marius posted:

Kou is a loving moron and not a good pilot. I wouldn't want him stealing my billion dollar test machine either.

Kou's a good pilot... it's just that Gundam tends to be about great pilots, and Kou is so full of terrible ideas and impulses that being a good pilot doesn't anywhere near compensate.

Arc Hammer posted:

Kou had a reason to kill her, she got his CO killed and he's a hothead.

Don't forget that he's strung out on meth to compensate for fatigue. That doesn't help with good decisionmaking.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Arc Hammer posted:

Gato wouldn't even have time to respond. By the end of the show he's reduced himself to being a blathering airbag that does nothing but spout bad poetry and wax lyrical about how heavy his burden is to be such an awesome/cursed bushido man.

The funny thing about Gato is how at the start of Stardust he had the same thing, but the show realized him being a bit of a windbag was funny. By the end, he's just as windbaggy, but it's not played as a gag.

As for Cima, she's the one Feddie asset in the show who accomplished anything. Competence excuses a wide variety of sins.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



SatoshiMiwa posted:

Cima deserves to be a in a better series and I'm kinda of shocked we haven't gotten a prequel manga with her a lead

She got a radio drama, and it got animated, so that's something. Mayfly of Space. Released initially in 1993, with a segment getting full anime treatment, a motion comic was made to cover the rest in 2016. It's been fan localized, so it's available for watching if you're looking to.

It's pretty good, and is a big part of why she's moved from "I like the tall, hot pirate queen who backstabs everyone. She's got style." to "Cima did nothing wrong, why is the universe so cruel?"

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



chrome line posted:

Lockon 2 is the only really good part of season 2

Nah. The final episode is badass. Beyond that, though...

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Gripweed posted:

I thought more about the movie. I know some people are going to try to say it's so bad it's good, but no it's just good.

What makes the movie really work is how strong the theme is and how integrated it into the plot and the character arcs. "You don't love someone because you need them, you need them because you love them" doesn't just rebut the bad guy's evil scheme, it also concludes all the major character arcs. And having that simple handle on pretty much everything that happens in the movie is what lets the movie move so fast and have such a large cast. All that spectacle is resting on that strong foundation

I need to see it to be sure, but it seems like even the so bad it's good descriptors for the film are usually acknowledging what works. That is, the film is goofy as heck, but it leans into it and knows what it's aiming for, rather than having failed at some other goal. That said, you seem to be right about the core. Taking a fandom joke about Kira and Lacus's relationship and making it into the film's emotional core is slick as they come.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



ImpAtom posted:

Fuunsaiki is in Gundam BReaker 3 too. It can't be straight built but I believe you can use the parts.

It's also in Breaker Mobile, which I suspect from the build list is one of the main sources of models for this game. There, you had parts possibly taking up multiple slots, (and other parts being able to be left empty) so that Fuunsaiki could be built with just two parts.

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chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



SatoshiMiwa posted:

Bandai Namco may be up there with some mind boggling dumb decisions but they're not quite put all their eggs in one basket dumb or Xbox division dumb. I imagine they'll make sure core Gundam projects get funded along with whatever weird experiments they do

Yeah, Bandai spent a ton of money on the Metaverse (130 million... which doesn't look as big comparing it to blockbuster budgets, but it's still a ton of money.) but I suspect that's in large part because they've been making money hand over fist with Gundam since the pandemic started, and they're basically burning it to try to find the next big hit. Sure, there might sometimes be terrible shows, failed games, unpopular models, whatever. They can afford the hits right now, and the chance to create a new generation of Gundam fans who'll be nostalgic 20 years from now is a pretty nice potential win condition, turning a temporary surge of money into long term stability.

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