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ArbitraryC posted:Is it really projected that women are going to vote more for Hillary just to shoot for that first woman potus status because that is the lamest reason in the world to vote for someone. I guess going by her response to how she's different from b-rock the islamic shock went over it shouldn't surprise me, but it still would be incredibly disappointing. Why?
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Oct 15, 2015 22:30
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ArbitraryC posted:Is it really projected that women are going to vote more for Hillary just to shoot for that first woman potus status because that is the lamest reason in the world to vote for someone. I guess going by her response to how she's different from b-rock the islamic shock went over it shouldn't surprise me, but it still would be incredibly disappointing. 2nd wave feminism is pretty big on winning through the system and a lot of middle age women are 2nd wave feminists. its at least a common enough philosophy to matter to some people.
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Oct 15, 2015 22:33
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Will women be more disappointed with Hillary's presidency than blacks were with Obama's presidency?
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Oct 15, 2015 22:34
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EugeneJ posted:Will women be more disappointed with Hillary's presidency than blacks were with Obama's presidency? ugh
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Oct 15, 2015 22:35
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Dan Didio posted:How old are you? '88 and '76 are really the only elections where this is even debatable
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Oct 15, 2015 22:36
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Xelkelvos posted:It'd be nice to see the separated demographics Its in the link Also y'all are pretty loving sense if you can't figure out why some women are pretty stoked for the idea of the first woman president especially when she's from the party you support
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Oct 15, 2015 22:37
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:so according to this poll, bernie won the debate among those who watched it. im pretty surprised, im not sure i would have even said that The most surprising thing about this poll is that 8% of the respondents voted for O'Malley.
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Oct 15, 2015 22:37
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the most charismatic certainly dont always win primaries though
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Oct 15, 2015 22:38
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EugeneJ posted:Will women be more disappointed with Hillary's presidency than blacks were with Obama's presidency? Is blacks being upset with Obama's presidency a thing? Any research:? or is it just the upset people are the loudest.
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Oct 15, 2015 22:38
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its not, black approval rating of obama is like 85%. eugenej is just very dumb
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Oct 15, 2015 22:39
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Spacebump posted:Hasn't the most charismatic candidate won the presidential election every time in our lifetimes? yeah, but a big part of charisma is saying what the other person wants to hear (or convincing them that what you're saying is what they want to hear), the most expert handwaggles, headnoddings, and heartwarming smiles won't mean much if the person is still trying to burn out time saying nonsensical gibberish or shouting stuff you know is bad. Sanders doesn't have any big interests to sate or bridges to leave unburned, so he can get a shitload of charisma just by advocating what people already want to hear in a genuine manner. Even if he speaks a decible louder than everyone else and has wild hair he's still saying "poor people need help and college costs way too drat much", while the other guys are saying "ah eh well, I represented wall street so i couldnt help then, but I promise now that if maybe the banks perhaps do bad things, i'l tell them 'hey, quit it you guys.'"
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Oct 15, 2015 22:40
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Raskolnikov38 posted:'88 and '76 are really the only elections where this is even debatable Honestly, I wouldn't even say '88, really.
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Oct 15, 2015 22:45
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Dan Didio posted:Honestly, I wouldn't even say '88, really. really that one comes down to who is the biggest goober and the jury is still out
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Oct 15, 2015 22:47
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Raskolnikov38 posted:really that one comes down to who is the biggest goober and the jury is still out Yeah, I mean neither of them were winning personalities, but it's hard to be 'charismatic' with the kind of metaphorical weight Dukakis carried through that election.
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Oct 15, 2015 22:48
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Dan Didio posted:Why?
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Oct 15, 2015 23:10
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Spacebump posted:I really wish ballots didn't have party affiliation on them and/or that no states did straight ticket voting. this tends to work out pretty well for democrats, when it's practiced, because the stuff they support tends to be stuff 70% of americans support, until they learn that's a liberal view that some democrat is pushing
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Oct 15, 2015 23:11
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:its not, black approval rating of obama is like 85%. eugenej is just very dumb Is he canadian? cause if so that makes more sense.
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Oct 15, 2015 23:14
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Dan Didio posted:Honestly, I wouldn't even say '88, really. Yeah, the guy who said the most memorable line of that campaign didn't get elected.
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Oct 15, 2015 23:15
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Obama is actually a pretty good example because he did roughly jack poo poo about the industrial prison complex and non-violent drug offenders, I mean it was nice that he had a bunch of good soundbites where he took a dump on racist stuff but he never actually effected any positive policies there to my recollection. Voting for obama cause he was black didn't really pan out for anyone. I voted for Stewart Alexander last cycle for reference cause his policies matched what I wanted the most of any candidate before someone tries to make a dumb gotcha out of this.
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Oct 15, 2015 23:19
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Raskolnikov38 posted:'88 and '76 are really the only elections where this is even debatable You think that Nixon was more charismatic then McGovern? (For the really old ones among us).
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Oct 15, 2015 23:20
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ArbitraryC posted:I just think it's a really poor reason. There aren't policy differences between bernie and hillary on women's issues and bernie has an overall better record on human rights issues in general. I guess you could make the argument that Hillary might prioritize them more, but honestly I'd be doubtful about that because she's more beholden to corporate interests than bernie is and stuff like family leave are going to be fought tooth and nail by the people funding her campaign. I understand it could be viewed as a symbollic victory putting a woman in the white house but I guess I just think she should get there for policy reasons rather than her lack of penis in itself. Like if you're a pro woman economic centrist then fine knock yourself out, but if you're pro woman economic leftist bernie is the better choice on paper. Why do you think a woman's perspective is purely 'symbolic'?
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Oct 15, 2015 23:26
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Ibogaine posted:You think that Nixon was more charismatic then McGovern? (For the really old ones among us). McGovern, what a name
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Oct 15, 2015 23:28
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Dan Didio posted:Why do you think a woman's perspective is purely 'symbolic'? If carly were the R nom and the D was a man, should women vote for carly for a woman's perspective?
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Oct 15, 2015 23:28
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ArbitraryC posted:This is such an unfair trap question I'm not even going to bother answering it Then why did you say it? ArbitraryC posted:If carly were the R nom and the D was a man, should women vote for carly for a woman's perspective? If they value that perspective, they should vote how they best see fit, personally, to get it represented in the upper echelons of political power, sure. But I thought we were talking about prospective Democrat voters, voting in the Democratic primary?
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Oct 15, 2015 23:29
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ArbitraryC posted:Obama is actually a pretty good example because he did roughly jack poo poo about the industrial prison complex and non-violent drug offenders, I mean it was nice that he had a bunch of good soundbites where he took a dump on racist stuff but he never actually effected any positive policies there to my recollection. Voting for obama cause he was black didn't really pan out for anyone. the holder doj was the strongest enforcer of the VRA in recent memory, at least until the supreme court went "lmao racism over" and gutted it
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Oct 15, 2015 23:30
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Smoremaster posted:McGovern, what a name It's a top tier president name.
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Oct 15, 2015 23:30
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Dan Didio posted:If they value that perspective, they should vote how they best see fit, personally, to get it represented in the upper echelons of political power, sure. hmmmmmm
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Oct 15, 2015 23:30
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Bernie was on Ellen today so his favorabilty with women should improve right
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Oct 15, 2015 23:31
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Miltank posted:hmmmmmm Hmmmmmm.
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Oct 15, 2015 23:31
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Dan Didio posted:Then why did you say it? quote:If they value that perspective, they should vote how they best see fit, personally, to get it represented in the upper echelons of political power, sure. looollllll
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Oct 15, 2015 23:34
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ArbitraryC posted:Where did I say that it was "purely"? quote:I understand it could be viewed as a symbollic victory putting a woman in the white house but I guess I just think she should get there for policy reasons rather than her lack of penis in itself. If your view is that outside of their pre-recorded policy positions Hillary's experiences as a woman amount to a 'could be viewed' symbolic victory, and that voting for her on any basis like that is 'disappointing', then the only reasonable conclusion is that you think a candidate's gender is meaningless outside of symbolism. Do you think that the differences between how men and women experience society are purely 'symbolic' or not? I'm not really concerned about you telling some hypothetical, non-existent irrelevant woman how to vote, but more the thing where you do it for real, existing women. Stay on target.
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Oct 15, 2015 23:38
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ArbitraryC posted:Voting for obama cause he was black didn't really pan out for anyone. I don't think you really have any authority to make this claim.
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Oct 15, 2015 23:40
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a lot of women agree with carly fiorina. a lot of women agree with trump. its a hosed up world out there; stay safe.
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Oct 15, 2015 23:41
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Dan Didio posted:If your view is that outside of their pre-recorded policy positions Hillary's experiences as a woman amount to a 'could be viewed' symbolic victory, and that voting for her on any basis like that is 'disappointing', then the only reasonable conclusion is that you think a candidate's gender is meaningless outside of symbolism.
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Oct 15, 2015 23:41
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paranoid randroid posted:a lot of women agree with carly fiorina. a lot of women agree with trump. As a humble progressive, I just don't think they should be able to vote.
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Oct 15, 2015 23:42
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i think people should be able to vote for whatever heinous jabbering freak they want. this is america and we stand for freedom.
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Oct 15, 2015 23:43
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rscott posted:Did Margaret Thatcher getting elected prime minister amount to a victory for feminism in the UK? Pretty sure Crass didn't think so. No, and I haven't said anything to suggest that it would, or that I would believe it did. The fact that people keep dodging questions and bringing up odd, irrelevant tangents tells me that people here probably aren't arguing in good faith, like me.
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Oct 15, 2015 23:43
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paranoid randroid posted:i think people should be able to vote for whatever heinous jabbering freak they want. this is america and we stand for freedom. I think, actually, they should be murdered.
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Oct 15, 2015 23:43
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Dan Didio posted:If your view is that outside of their pre-recorded policy positions Hillary's experiences as a woman amount to a 'could be viewed' symbolic victory, and that voting for her on any basis like that is 'disappointing', then the only reasonable conclusion is that you think a candidate's gender is meaningless outside of symbolism. ArbitraryC posted:I just think it's a really poor reason. There aren't policy differences between bernie and hillary on women's issues and bernie has an overall better record on human rights issues in general. I guess you could make the argument that Hillary might prioritize them more, but honestly I'd be doubtful about that because she's more beholden to corporate interests than bernie is and stuff like family leave are going to be fought tooth and nail by the people funding her campaign. I understand it could be viewed as a symbollic victory putting a woman in the white house but I guess I just think she should get there for policy reasons rather than her lack of penis in itself. Like if you're a pro woman economic centrist then fine knock yourself out, but if you're pro woman economic leftist bernie is the better choice on paper. Dan Didio posted:I'm not really concerned about you telling some hypothetical, non-existent irrelevant woman how to vote, but more the thing where you do it for real, existing women. Stay on target.
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Oct 15, 2015 23:43
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this is also why, as a christian and firm believer in traditional family values, im voting for a guy whose job is standing in the surf at the beach screaming racial epithets at the waves
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Oct 15, 2015 23:44
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