Star Wars VIII spoil-o-rama thread. You've been warned!

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Star Wars VIII spoil-o-rama thread. You've been warned!

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

I like to believe the theory that his lightsaber is emitting too much energy to be safe (resulting in it looking all wibbly-wobbly and jagged) and the two cross-guard things are also acting as some kind of vent.

# ¿ Oct 25, 2015 08:21

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 01:22

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Ren kills Han over an argument about what parsecs are.

# ¿ Oct 26, 2015 20:55

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Those Plagueis images and the idea of chasing immortality remind me too much of Voldemort.

# ¿ Oct 31, 2015 00:31

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

I kind of like how they got the giant planet superweapon out of the way while simultaneously acknowledging the ridiculousness of the escalation going on. Like, clearly something has to change; blowing up the superweapons is not only not fixing the problem, but in this one they had to blow up a whole planet to do it... I think they have to start shrinking the size of the conflict.

# ¿ Dec 20, 2015 15:58

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

So, according to google, Snoke is Norwegian for "snoop." This would be an obvious way to parallel Vader meaning "father."

Snoke = Snoop Dogg?

# ¿ Dec 31, 2015 09:26

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Cheesus posted:

And then this was posted the other day with a warning that it would be deleted in 24 hours. With a warning like that ,you know that means it's totally legit!

Whoever wrote this learned the secret trick that if you always replace "who" with "whom" then you sound really really smart (and not like a complete idiot).

# ¿ Apr 23, 2016 03:47

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Snoke is actually Obi-Wan's force ghost, continuing to rely on trickery even beyond the grave. He just wants to find Luke so he can hang out with him again.

# ¿ Jan 16, 2017 23:43

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

There's absolutely room for original characters, I think the issue here is that the only interesting thing about Snoke is the mystery at this point. If the "reveal" is that he's just some random wannabe Palpatine then yeah that'll be disappointing. I don't think he has to be revealed to be some pre-existing character for it to be interesting though.

# ¿ Jan 17, 2017 02:17

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

I think the whole point of the Sith is that they just want power. Like, why would they care if some old dude wrote something in a book if they always tend to personally murder their mentors?

# ¿ Apr 27, 2017 12:40

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

BarronsArtGallery posted:

Not pretending it's apocryphal. I'm recognizing that they're just much worse in quality than the original trilogy and TFA. Actors phoned in performances. The scripts for all three were atrocious. I'm not even leveling criticism like some nerd who's miffed that what they thought should happen didn't happen. I'm saying that what was released was poorly made and mostly incoherent with some good ideas sprinkled over and not on the same tier as the OT and TFA.

If you're intentionally not leveling criticism, and instead saying that it's "Just Bad," I think it's simpler if you just leave it at that. "Prequels = Just Bad." Why say any more?

# ¿ Nov 9, 2017 01:22

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

So, it's true, you narrow down from Prequels = Just Bad to (Writing and Acting) = Just Bad

I do not think that is specific. Things like "this seems like something from a first draft" and "I'm just recognizing that the quality is low" are just ways of adding words and obscuring the underlying point (that you just don't like it). It's not critique.

Martman fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Nov 9, 2017

# ¿ Nov 9, 2017 02:33

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

BarronsArtGallery posted:

instead of showing how Anakin is the child prodigy that he's made out to be with him doing hard work and figuring out how to succeed against all odds, winning the race just comes natural to him with near-zero effort. It was portrayed as a fluke. No time in a simulator. No test runs. He's an auto-mechanic that wings it. That's a weak rear end character. Notice what I'm not saying? I don't hold it against Jake Lloyd at all; he was a child actor that acted like a child should. We're not shown that Anakin is special, we're only told that.

It is impossible for me to read this as anything but you saying "this isn't the movie I thought it was supposed to be." I bring this up only because you were claiming that you're not doing that.

We're shown that Anakin repeatedly succeeds effectively by accident. He is incredibly lucky. How is that not special? Was Luke able to hit the one in a million shot on the death star because of training, or because he's always been incredibly gifted for no good reason? Anakin's repeated successes are precisely showing how the Force works, just like it makes Jar Jar stumble into helping in the big battle "just because."

quote:

The queen wants to defend Naboo but just kind of says things and complains.

What else do queens do?

Sorry for repeated edits, but what do you mean about Palpatine's plan in Naboo? How does that remove the reason for him to advance to Chancellor?

Martman fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Nov 9, 2017

# ¿ Nov 9, 2017 04:22

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Schwarzwald posted:

Sometimes they band together with the planet's native population and then personally lead a task force to capture the leaders behind the subjugation of their people.

Well yeah, but she only convinces the Gungans by saying things! And complaining.

# ¿ Nov 9, 2017 04:38

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

TheMaestroso posted:

This is kind of an obnoxious way to talk to someone if you're trying to actually have a discussion.

It's also kind of obnoxious when people hide criticisms behind "look I'm just recognizing that the quality is objectively low" etc., but hey I don't mind.

The Force having an arbitrary quality to it is one of the big revelations of the prequel trilogy I think. What are midiporgians if not an acknowledgement that Anakin is powerful for no real reason except dumb genetic luck (or engineering, but whatever)? It's explicitly saying that this power is just straight up in your DNA.

Martman fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Nov 9, 2017

# ¿ Nov 9, 2017 04:57

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

BarronsArtGallery posted:

oh look he just decided to act like I didn't write a really lengthy post on how atrocious the writing was

I will admit it was lengthy.

Having to train to make your super powers work better is not some kind of fundamental quality of good writing vs. bad writing. And anyway, Luke has to train to learn how to move stuff with his mind, yes... but in order to actually succeed he basically rejects everything he's taught and relies on Darth Vader being strong enough to save him. When he makes a seemingly suicidal jump away from Vader in ESB, is he not saved by a random act of Force luck?

Martman fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Nov 10, 2017

# ¿ Nov 10, 2017 00:02

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

BarronsArtGallery posted:

I gave an example earlier of how Palpatine's plan in Episode I made zero sense and was contradictory to achieving his goals. Do you just ignore it when watching TPM? I'm interested in a good discussion about this.

You said this:

quote:

We're shown that there is a literal phantom menace pulling the strings of the trade federation and are to assume they have a competent plan, but at the same time Palpatine wants to force a treaty to be signed so that he can legalize an occupation of his home planet and remove the reason for him to advance to chancellor???

but didn't explain why you felt the treaty removed the reason for him to advance to chancellor. Could you explain what you mean more?

# ¿ Nov 14, 2017 04:51

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

sweet geek swag posted:

Without the crisis, the chancellor would be able to say, "Nope, everything worked out, Naboo even signed a treaty to end the crisis." Palpatine would have no standing to challenge Valorum's leadership.

Is letting his planet get occupied with no legal recourse really something that would prevent political attacks of Valorum?

Martman fucked around with this message at 09:05 on Nov 14, 2017

# ¿ Nov 14, 2017 08:58

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

BarronsArtGallery posted:

So why didn't the movie show us this or tell us this? You're hypothesizing a major plot detail. That's horrible film making.

I just don't think a treaty that amounts to surrendering to an occupying force "resolves the dispute." It just puts into law a situation that would be incredibly politically tumultuous. Whatever specific plans Palpatine would have had don't need to be shown because it basically makes sense that putting Naboo in a Senate-recognized state of severe unrest could help him. If anything, signing such a treaty would have just been a way of making sure Valorum doesn't get a chance to do anything to make himself look useful.

# ¿ Nov 15, 2017 00:00

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

He looks like Killface from Frisky Dingo in that picture:

# ¿ Nov 22, 2017 12:02

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Gonz posted:

If what is leaked is to be believed, then Hayden Christensen and Ewan MacGregor are motherfuckin' force ghosts in this movie.

I've been calling Hayden showing up in this movie for months (total wild speculation I mean, not claiming I knew anything). It honestly became my line in the sand as far as whether I'd believe they actually gave a poo poo about this trilogy being real sequels rather than just retreads.

For all Kylo talked about Darth Vader, it would be completely lame for him to not actually show up at some point.

EDIT: To be clear though, that leak just claims his voice is heard but he does not actually show up visually... seems like that would be a really odd choice.

Martman fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Dec 5, 2017

# ¿ Dec 5, 2017 06:40

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Wank posted:

It has the same "just film the first draft" issues that the prequels have.

This criticism has always been dumb, for every movie, but just lol at the idea that Disney was rushing this out in any way, shape or form.

# ¿ Dec 16, 2017 05:12

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

I feel like the bigger issue with the whole "slowly running out of fuel" situation was that it was unclear what the Resistance even is at this point. How can they have no supporters? The First Order just blew up Washington DC, and only 100 people in the whole country care? If so, gently caress the galaxy, they deserve whatever they have coming if the Resistance gets blown up.

# ¿ Dec 16, 2017 05:22

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Wank posted:

Its just shorthand for needing more time, or care on the structure, story etc.

It's shorthand for making poo poo up... poo poo like this

quote:

Lucas was always budget restrained. He wanted star wars to be made as cheap as possible since that meant more money in his pocket.

# ¿ Dec 16, 2017 05:28

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

I think Luke getting dark and angry makes sense. By the end of RotJ, he's confronted his own inner demons and overcome them, yes, but he hasn't been faced with the inherent failures/corruption of the Republic. We last see him basically thinking that he won the greatest battle ever, he helped redeem his dad's soul, and the Good Guys are gonna be back in power.

Then we see the prequels (and, basically, so does Luke I guess), and he's confronted with the realization that the real-world impact of his victory is relatively small and insignificant. It makes perfect sense to me that he would become super disillusioned with the Republic after that.

# ¿ Dec 16, 2017 17:59

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Beeez posted:

So are you suggesting the Republic's problems are why Ben became Kylo(because that's what led to Luke being what he is in the new movie)?

I kind of feel the opposite. I think Luke was clearly getting paranoid and dark, and acted as a terrible teacher to Ben. IMO that's what drove him to become Kylo.

# ¿ Dec 16, 2017 19:19

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

s.i.r.e. posted:

Lightsabers were just a tool in the OT that people used to whack stuff with and kill dudes, not worrying about looking like an anime character with dramatized ballet movements, spinning lightsabers and twirly dodges.

Impressive... every word you just said is completely wrong.

In the OT, light sabers are used for showmanship. They wield them like samurai in some of the most slow and dramatized fight scenes ever made. Anakin in AotC and RotS is actually the one who uses light sabers as "tools to whack stuff with." He takes out bug dudes and droids like he's swinging a baseball bat, and will grab a second saber and pop off a dude's head like it's no big deal. Quigon uses his to melt doors.

This movie actually featured some of the most basic and utilitarian uses of lightsabers, i.e. move the light saber using the force to sneakily cut someone in half, or just hold it up to someone's head and pop them instantly.

Martman fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Dec 16, 2017

# ¿ Dec 16, 2017 21:17

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

got any sevens posted:

Where are the ewok movies in this list

They don't appear in the Jedi archives, therefore they don't exist.

# ¿ Dec 16, 2017 21:23

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq51w34Hg9I
Pictured: some guys just using some tools.

Darth Maul likes to do a bunch of flips for no reason, yes... and he gets owned because of it.

# ¿ Dec 16, 2017 21:32

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

s.i.r.e. posted:

Darth Maul, Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, Yoda, Anakin, Dooku, Grievous, literally anyone that uses a lightsaber in the prequels constantly jumps off of walls, 20 feet into the air and twirls them around to make colorful lightshows for braindead idiots.

Grievous "twirls them around" to make a lightsaber power saw, i.e he literally treats them like cutting tools.

# ¿ Dec 16, 2017 22:07

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Z. Autobahn posted:

I mean, if you want your franchise to be safe boring rehashes propelled by third-rate comic book mysteries, maybe don't hire an original indie director with distinctly contrarian impulses to helm a core entry? I'm sure there's a million and one hacks in Hollywood who could have turned out more of the boring franchise-wanking nostalgia-farming bullshit like TFA and RO.

Hmm yes, they hired a cool indie guy like Rian Johnson instead of an establishment hack like... Gareth Edwards.

# ¿ Dec 18, 2017 08:14

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Z. Autobahn posted:

1) Yes, Rian's body of work is way weirder and more original than Gareth's? Gareth's not a hack, but he's also no made anything a tenth as weird as Brick.

What's so weird about Brick? It's a pretty straightforward noir movie, with the gimmick of all the characters being in high school.

Monsters is least as contrarian and expectation-subverting as TLJ.

# ¿ Dec 18, 2017 08:39

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Koirhor posted:

They quasi explain this at the end of the Clone Wars cartoon.

Welp, I guess I'll never know the answer.

# ¿ Dec 27, 2017 10:37

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Waffles Inc. posted:

The term �plot hole� needs to die

Films are not a documentary wherein there are omitted facts being hidden from you.

Perhaps the good reviews are because the person enjoyed the movie

Plot holes are an actual thing, it's just that a majority of the time nerd complaints are not about actual plot holes. It's a whole separate matter to determine whether plot holes happen to be bad things. The nerd criticisms like Cinema Sins tend to be more along the lines of "is it possible to interpret this in a way that makes it sound stupid? Then let's complain about it"

I always loved this quote from Roger Ebert about High Tension

quote:

I am tempted at this point to issue a Spoiler Warning and engage in discussion of several crucial events in the movie that would seem to be physically, logically and dramatically impossible, but clever viewers will be able to see for themselves that the movie's plot has a hole that is not only large enough to drive a truck through, but in fact does have a truck driven right through it.

# ¿ Dec 30, 2017 14:40

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Jeb! Repetition posted:

In spite of how goony that guy is, that's an amazing post.

The most amazing part of it, looking back, is that the next Star Wars advanced precisely to the level of Kylo "tentatively explor[ing] how it feels to take his shirt off in front of a girl."

Kind of spooky.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2018 03:00

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Justin_Brett posted:

This sounds like an ~~entirely different~~ actual character.

# ¿ Jan 8, 2018 09:21

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 01:22

Martman: Nov 20, 2006

Tender Bender posted:

He's got high int and low wisdom with a heaping portion of hubris, this is an extremely common trope for villains and not at all the overreaching argument you seem to think it is.

How's his charisma? I feel like the head scar is like a -3 modifier or something.

Or do force users get to substitute intelligence for charisma?? this is important

# ¿ Jan 23, 2018 00:54

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Star Wars VIII spoil-o-rama thread. You've been warned!