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Grendels Dad posted:I like this a lot. We can already tell that Kyle-o is kinda obsessed with Star Wars, it'd be extra-funny if he was so obsessed that he tried to recreate the events of the previous movies. Such meta stuff is just annoying and not "funny" at all and even thinking anyone would actually write a story like this says a lot more about the people who are themselfs obsessed with other people obsessing...
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Oct 27, 2015 16:07
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team overhead smash posted:3) Luke will turn to the darkside in ep8, and the two above points will come together to serve up the perfect opportunity to redo the climactic "I am your father" scene from Empire for which the scene in Ep7 was just a disguise. Luke won't turn to the dark side, it doesn't make any sense from a narrative standpoint. His story is already told and he made his big choice in ROTJ. Negating his whole story and character with such a story wouldn't make any sense and doesn't really serve any purpose. His "struggle" will be how to deal with his legacy. I expect a redemption arc for Ren and the opposite for Rey and Luke will be in the middle of that. His choice won't be between dark and light side, it will again be about family (and friends).
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Dec 23, 2015 04:10
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Yvonmukluk posted:I actually like how they are quite clearly laying the ground for Rey & Finn to get together in the next movie or the one after. They clearly had some chemistry, but they only knew each other, what, a few hours? I'm quite happy if they let that relationship develop over the course of the trilogy. I don't see this at all. To me they made their relationship as much like "brother and sister / just good friends" as you possibly could in a hollywood blockbuster (they get to hug without even a hint of more). There is absolutely great chemistry between them but close to zero romantic chemistry. I also think any relationship for Rey would kinda distract from the story, there is a reason why Luke didn't have a love interest and it would be great if we get another major movie trilogy in which our "hero" doesn't need to end up in a relationship. I mean I wouldn't mind it at the very end or as minor part (like Luke's "thing" with Leia) but not if it involves Finn because that would force them to dedicate two major characters and the main story to relationship drama. I'd like to think that it's nowadays possible to have a relation between a man and a woman that is just friendship and doesn't need to be more. It would also fit into the original themes of Star Wars which were family and friends, not family and "love interests". Personally the whole "for love" angle is really played out in modern movies which is why I prefer it if _true_ friendship is used (I mean people like to joke about it but yeah Frodo and Sam were a more interesting "relationship" than 99% of the love stories out there and the prequels didn't really help in that regard).
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Dec 23, 2015 23:05
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NutritiousSnack posted:That's not how films screenplays have been done by studios now or ever, and for good artistic reasons not just market ones. The actor who plays Ren could be hit by a bus tomorrow, .weather or poltical conditions might prevent shooting on location requiring rewrites mild or major, ect. poo poo happens. Disney has a good outline and maybe a rough draft that can morph plot details as big as Vader being Luke's father again. I really doubt that it would allow for such huge changes. Let's not forget, they have 3 different directors and need to make sure that none of those screw the other one so the major plot points should be set in stone by this point (and that certainly includes any big reveal/twist). There will certainly be some minor wiggle room like with Poe but I'd be VERY surprised if they didn't already know where at least Rey, Ren, Luke and Snoke end up in the story.
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Dec 23, 2015 23:11
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Ren will become the "hero" of the story and Rey the villain/turn to the dark side. Thoughts about that theory? To me it seems kind of the logical move and it would explain why you would introduce a villain with doubts (so there is a way back to the light side) and make a new hero who is already at the point Luke was in ESB (so she has more time to fall for the dark side). It would also be a reversal of Anakin's character arc if Ren really goes to the other side. It's also interesting that in this movie the villain loses his first duel, usually it's happening to our heroes who get their asses kicked (see Luke/Anakin). They are also the ones who have to improve/master the abilities but in this one it's never an issue with Rey and instead it's emphasized that Ren has to finish his training. Then you also have the whole "seduced by the other side" angle which is also emphasized in Ren's case but hardly plays into Rey's role (Ren wants to "turn" her but it's never showed as conflict for Rey, for her it's just all about using the force and the question of dark or light side doesn't really factor into the whole thing) I really wish that's where they take the characters but I don't know if Disney has the guts to really have their female lead get turned to the dark side and use the murderer of Han (and Luke's Jedi) as the "hero" of the story.
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Dec 24, 2015 13:25
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team overhead smash posted:Probably the biggest issue with this is that Kylo is complicit in genocide on a massive scale. It's okay to get a deathbed conversion like with Vader, but having space hitler repent and run around rescuing people as a good guy is too much I think. He obviously wouldn't run around as the good guy or resuce people. What I meant is more a gradual "decline" towards the light side which culminates in a similar way as Vader but more than just a deathbed conversion. He of course can still sacrifice himself but you could do a lot more with that than Vader's one minute of "now good guy". I'm also not suggesting that Rey becomes really evil and goes around killing people but I could imagine that she does get seduced by the dark side and makes a different choice than Luke in ROTJ because she was abonded by her father/family for example and then Ren would fit in perfectly as family member to help her come back from this decision, a chance Anakin didn't have made possible by his grandson (this would also bring Ren full circle because in the end he did act just like his grandfather). I really see not many other options, what is the alternative? Tell the exact same story with Rey in place of Luke? I mean Disney for sure wants to play it save but that's too save even for Disney and the way Ren was used in the first movie means they have to do more with Ren than the OT did with Vader (until the very end of ROTJ). It would also give Luke more possibilities than just being the next Obi-Wan/Yoda to Rey. If Ren/Rey really take opposite paths that would put Luke in an interesting position (how to handle your former Padawan who betrayed you but is now showing signs that he still has the light side in him and what to do with Rey if he fears she could turn to the dark side just like Ren?).
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Dec 24, 2015 14:26
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It's better not to think too much about force ghosts because it becomes pretty ridiculous the more you think about the whole concept. It is fine as concept for Star War's fairytale approach and was used as storytelling crotch but the existence of force ghosts is really, really awkward when it comes to the whole philosophy/religion aspect of the Jedi/the force and opens up a can of worms.ImpAtom posted:How so? If the physical isn't "important" the Jedi/the force wouldn't need to care about it. "Important" implies a purpose and the force (force ghosts) obviously seem to interact with the physical world so there must be a purpose behind it and any purpose means there is importance to the physical world. The usual answer to such philosophical questions is that the spiritual world (force) can't exist without the pyhsical, that both are interdependent. LinkesAuge fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Dec 29, 2015 |
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Dec 29, 2015 17:12
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ImpAtom posted:"Don't think about this part of the film because I don't like what it says" isn't really a reasonable groundpoint for analysis. They're in the film and can't be ignored. That wasn't my point but I already observed that you really don't want to understand what others write. My point is that the story of Star War's and how it's presented is too weak to create a fictional philosophy that is internally consistent and works within its own universe. In this case it's really a case of "overthinking" things. Once you try to analyse why force ghosts are around at all you end up with all kinds of problems. Accept them as story telling tool that is grounded in the Jedi philosophy instead of seeing things that were never intended or even hinted at. quote:Even those who are enlightened seek to help those who are not. You can make arguments for the ghosts being able to continue helping but nobody but Luke ever sees them and even Luke takes time to do that. The Clone Wars animated series goes into the "history" of force ghost. It's Qui-Gon who "discovered" that ability and taught it to Yoda so it's not even something Jedi were aware of until very recently in their history and it's not something they ever had as "goal" or something they wanted to master. You could make an argument that the force itself intervenes in the physical world and first gives this ability to Qui-Gon which leads to Yoda and Obi-Wan getting it too with the outcome we all know. However becoming a "force ghost" in itself is never represented as reaching a higher stage of existence (I mean what would that even mean for everyone else? That only Qui-Gon, Yoda, Obi-Wan and Anakin get to live in Jedi paradise?), it's a tool of the force for the interaction between the physical world and whatever is outside of it. ImpAtom posted:The physical world is important in that people live there and the vast vast vast majority of people are not Jedi and any potential they have to become a force-user is outside of their personal and mental realm. But the force isn't about "overcoming the physical world". Where is this ever stated? The Jedi don't talk about force heaven, force hell or anything like that, they don't strive to reach another stage of consciousness or whatever. The force exists IN the physicial world, is part or at least interconnected with it. This is what Yoda says in ESB about the force: " For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship." The force isn't some other realm or higher dimension of existence like you try to argue here. It's only not "physical" in the way energy in our reality isn't "physical" but just as energy is part of our physical world so is the force in Star Wars. It's clearly a power that interacts with the physical worlds and if you trust Yoda's words the force is actually dependent on LIFE itself. That's why Yoda and so on don't "ascend" to the next level, they just transform to another state of existence but it's not an evolutionary next step or anything like that and thus fits much better with the Jedi philosophy and how the force is presented in general. That's why your whole "the physical world is unimportant" approach doesn't work because it makes a distinction that has no place. Yes, Yoda makes a difference between matter and "energy" (Luminous beings) but only to point out that there is not just matter that defines us but also an energy. This however doesn't mean this energy (force) isn't part of the physical world, Yoda makes it more than clear that it is and thus the physical world is important because there is no force without pyhsical world. The force is more similar to a physics concept like antimatter (with a fantasy twist) than it is to christian space heaven. LinkesAuge fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Dec 29, 2015 |
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Dec 29, 2015 18:22
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ImpAtom posted:... So, that wasn't your point but you're specifically saying it is overthinking things to analyze them? I'm saying you are being obtuse on purpose. It's one thing to analyze them but a totally different thing to built your own philosophy around it which isn't really based on something that is ever said or done. If you want to draw conclusions from such an analysis then I gave you one but it still doesn't mean force ghosts make any logical sense or are even internally consistent in Star War's universe. ImpAtom posted:Like at this point you're actually arguing in favor of the Force being magic spells that need the specific wording and motions to use and I'm really comfortable saying that is straight-up wrong with what we're shown in the movies. You can manipulate energy fields with physical motion, see the Theremin instrument as real world example. The force works in a similar way, it might be energy but it isn't disconnected from the physical world/matter. The whole mental aspect of the Jedi is only the entrance to the force, it doesn't mean there is no physical aspect to it at all. LinkesAuge fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Dec 29, 2015 |
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Dec 29, 2015 18:29
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ImpAtom posted:When that appears in the movies I'll give a poo poo. If we're going to bring the Star Wars EU in then there's plenty of other things to argue. But it isn't some EU poo poo I don't take care about either, it is a canon explanation sanctioned by Lucas himself and has certainly more value than random speculation by either you or me. quote:It is, in fact, a major factor in Obi-Wan allowing himself to be struck down so that he could become 'more powerful than you ever imagined.' But the "than you ever imagined" part is important and also what "powerful" means in this context. Obi-Wan himself doesn't get powerful, his power comes from his new ability to interact with Luke at any time and at any place and guide him beyond his death. It's a useless tool to get Luke to where he needs to be but it is never presented as "improvement" or something you should strife for or else why doesn't Luke just become a force ghost or everyone else for that matter (and why don't Yoda or Obi-Wan just become force ghosts earlier if its so powerful? The obvious answer is because this "power" has other limitations and is only "powerful" in combination with Luke)?
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Dec 29, 2015 18:41
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ImpAtom posted:Because the films go out of their way to show that physicality is overrated and a connection to it is the mistake of flawed minds. The 'strongest' Force Users we see are 900 year old dying muppet, a creature more machine than man, and a horrifying wrinkled mess of a man. Luke's greatest success is throwing away his lightsaber and choosing to die during the most critical battle of the Rebellion because his soul (and the soul of his father) is more important that the Emperor's death. Once again you make things up. Not once is it stated that "physicality is overrated". Yoda makes just the point that there is MORE to existence than just matter, that other forces are at play, not to mention that Yoda (as well as the force) very much seem to care about the physical world. Your mistake is to equate "physical world" just with matter while it is just as much energy that can be part of it. quote:You are literally arguing that the things presented in the universe 'don't make logical sense' because they don't agree with what you want them to say. This is not be me being obtuse it is you literally going "I don't agree with this so I'm going to say it makes no sense." What? I only ever said that force ghosts don't make sense once you try to analyse them in detail and draw big conclusions from them and I don't see what this has to do with agreeing or not with anything. There is a reason why they (Lucas) came up with that convoluted explanation in the animated Clone Wars series because the whole thing really falls apart once you think too much about it. LinkesAuge fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Dec 29, 2015 |
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Dec 29, 2015 18:49
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ImpAtom posted:You know what else is a canon explanation sanctioned by Lucas himself? Bad example (not that doesn't count anymore) but even if we ignore that part you didn't engage with any of the other points I made. There are still Yoda's words which are pretty clear about what the force is or isn't and the force ghosts are also still a very convenient story telling tool. I mean if you want to integrate them into some bigger explanation then you open pandora's box. You'd have to ask why only certain people get to be force ghosts, why they chose to become force ghosts when they did (and not earlier for example because training Luke could have been easiert for Yoda if he had been just a ghost who could show up at whatever time and place he chooses to be), why no other force ghosts show up (there were plenty of Jedi before Yoda/Obi-Wan), why none of those ghosts warned Yoda and the other Jedi about Sidious and so on. There really can't be satisfying answers to such questions and that's why the OT never even tries to answer them and why I argue that it doesn't make sense to overanalyse them (they weren't meant to be a representation on how space religion/Jedi philosophy works in the literal sense). quote:The physical not being important to the force doesn't mean it isn't important to Luke. Luke being very strongly connected to the physical is why he has that problem in the first place. Luke's problem isn't being grounded in the physical world, it's about his doubts that there is an energy/force that goes beyond it. LinkesAuge fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Dec 29, 2015 |
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Dec 29, 2015 18:59
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ImpAtom posted:Yeah, I get what you mean there! Again, the clone wars are not just some random EU stuff, it's a project Lucas was heavily involved with and is still considered canon and supported by Disney. quote:Well, that is why I've tried to stick to things from the films, which is something almost everyone can agree on instead of the weird multi-tier half-erased semi-canon-sorta-canon stuff that is the EU. But you don't really bring anything from the films to the discussion, you bring your conclusions/interpretations from them. I obviously do the same but at least I try to find sources in the existing material. I'm still waiting for something that makes the distinctions in Star Wars you use and I should mention that I consciously chose to ignore the prequels in this discussion despite the fact that they blur the line between matter and energy even more and thus bring the force and the "physical" even closer together in the form of midichlorians. I mean whatever you think about the whole midichlorians thing but it clearly shows the intention Lucas always had and that was never that the force existed outside of everything else and instead has always been part of the (physical) world or more specifically life (as Yoda already pointed out in ESB => life creates the force). LinkesAuge fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Dec 29, 2015 |
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Dec 29, 2015 19:17
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Krowley posted:Yeah it's kinda dumb and they're definitely not gonna bring in this guy who was barely mentioned once in a movie trilogy most people feel content on ignoring, and feature him as the main baddie It's as "dumb" as introducing yet another big bad who lingered in the shadows all this time and noone knew about. The good thing about Plagueis isn't his connection to the PT and it also isn't important that everything is connected but his character makes at least more sense than a totally "new" one. They could of course call him something else and have a similar backstory but then I wonder for what purpose? It's not like there is anything to lose if you do make him Plagueis so the question kinda becomes why shouldn't he be? That he is only mentioned once in the PT (one mention of the Clone Wars in the OT was enough for them in the PT  ) is actually an advantage, he would still be a "surprise" for most of the audience and doesn't bring a lot of backstory baggage with him (except the whole create life thing which could be used in an interesting way).I mean I'm usually also not a fan of such stuff but in this case I'd really prefer it to Snoke just being another dark side user who was on vacation while everything in the OT and PT went down, it would feel kind of forced if he came out of nowhere. LinkesAuge fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Dec 31, 2015 |
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Dec 31, 2015 14:10
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Waffles Inc. posted:Why is it odd that Rey is so good? Luke is "the best bush pilot in the outer rim territories" and is able to not just not die, but be tremendously effective his very first time in an X-Wing. Immediate hyper-competence is like a thing for Star War characters. But both characters also struggled. Luke needed help all the way (he didn't face off Vader in ANH, Obi-Wan did and also needed guidance when it came to destroying the death star and using the force, not to mention his later training by Yoda and continued support by Obi-Wan) and Anakin as (we are lead to believe) the most powerful Jedi in history loses a light sabre duel to old guy Dooku and is later beaten by Obi-Wan (after decades of Jedi training). So yes we are used to our Protagonist's being extremely _talented_ but it has always been pure and raw talent (just like Kylo Ren btw) highlighted by some very specific skills they have already mastered early on (flying ships in the case of Anakin and Luke though Luke did seem to have experience with space vehicles for years). Rey just seems to master everything without effort. This is not only beyond what was shown by previous characters, it also goes against the heroe's journey because Rey simply doesn't need to overcome any obstacles. Her parents were teased as something she has to deal with but what effect did that really have on her so far? Really none, it doesn't stop her to be powerful and master the force, she isn't held back by anything and neither Snoke nor Kylo Ren use her upbringing against her. It's kind of telling that Yoda has to show up to Luke of all people and not Rey. The movie literally establishes that it's not her who needs lessons about the force (Yoda says as much), it's the freaking Jedi master who saved the universe who still gets taught because ~stronk woman~ Rey has already everything she needs... it's just jarring and I say this as someone who was on the fence about the whole "Rey is a Mary Sue" discussion after TFA because there was enough room left to grow her character (including her backstory) but this didn't happen in TLJ, they just doubled down on "Rey is awesome ". I wouldn't even mind her powers if they did something interesting with her but they didn't. They teased the audience with the possibility of her joining Kylo (at least to some extent) but then decided "nope, she is just the next Luke but without all the boring stuff like character development and personal struggles". Her whole arc so far is a big "meh" and at this point Kylo Ren is the character with more storytelling potential though I don't know if this is intentional or just by accident.
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Dec 27, 2017 20:43
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Gatts posted:My dudes. One of the things since the fall of the Republic is how it’s rotten to the core. The casino scene shows this. Nothing actually changed and the Empire and Resistance still fights. The ending shows that a real victory and recruitment to a brighter future is done by compassionate helping hand. The resistance killing Empire soldiers or ships do nothing but continue cycle and bloodshed. Finn rescuing the animals and inspiring the kid is what is needed to rebuild a new better Republic and tear down existing systems. How are the animals rescued? Will the Casino people just stop to hunt them and not have races just because they were freed for a bit? And isn't it also "inspiring" if the Rebels fight the bad guys? I don't even understand why THIS is the action that suddenly gets kids to "rise up". Weren't there stories about the Jedi, Luke's adventures, what the Rebel's did, what happened to the Empire etc.? Why do we need Finn's failed mission to inspire people? There are plenty of heroic stories that already exist in this universe and there is a super evil foe to fight against and yet we are lead to believe it's stuff like this that matters now and it needs a new generation? The whole Casino world makes things also kinda messy in regards to the whole good/bad fight because that planet was obviously part of the new Republic and there is nothing to suggest that the conditions there are something new which means it was just as bad under them as it is now with the Empire 2.0? I don't get why they are doing this. This whole trilogy kinda throws the message at us "nothing matters, nothing good came out of Luke's actions and the new Republic isn't really better than anything before". Why not show that things actually got better under this new Republic and that there is something to LOSE if an evil force like the first order takes over. Instead we get a passive (ignorant?) Republic that gets easily destroyed and seems to have accepted animal cruelty and the slavery of children? What a message by Disney... I'm getting tired of movies only showing how democrazy is weak, easily corrupted, just as bad as everything else and so on. Yes it has (major) flaws but I feel we tend to forget what the alternatives are and totally forget what can be lost. I really don't like the prequels (they are bad) but at least Lucas TRIED to get that point through. TLJ (and the new trilogy) is just a jumbled mess so far when it comes to the messages it wants to portray. fivegears4reverse posted:If the movie fails to meet those expectations, that's the fault of the film and the people who produced it, not the fans that some people dislike so much they can sit in their chairs with a straight face and accuse a vast number of them of being internet nazis, not because they are actually nazis, but rather because they didn't like a goddamned star wars film. To me the most baffling thing about TLJ is that there are people thinking this movie took any risks.
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Dec 28, 2017 19:03
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I think the question is more why Youtubers are reviewing it poorly, and it's basically that this film has generated nerd rage for a few reasons (blaspheming against space Jesus, having Rey not be space royalty, expecting the audience to draw some simple inferences etc). That's a strawman. Most of the negative reviews I saw don't mind Rey not being space royalty, drawing some simple interferences or whatever else you try to come up with to make negative reviews sound like they were all created by angry nerds (those surely exist too but let's not act like they are reponsible for the "backlash"). The core of the critical voices is more in regards to a lack of world creation/consistency, a lack of character development (or contradicting character actions, retreating old ground etc.), a plot that goes nowhere (we are once again where we started) and so on. I think there are a lot of valid reasons for criticism and to me it seems like the "professional" critics got blinded by the prettiness of the movie and maybe with a movie like Star Wars there is nowadays the "IGN"-Problem that plagues games in effect, ie a big movie with the right buzz will get positives reviews just like big games. TLJ ist overall still a decent (SciFi) movie and that's enough to get positive reviews but imo it is a disappointment for a Star Wars movie. ShineDog posted:The youtube hot takes are the worst loving thing as well, because I've barely seen any criticism and a million "Luke was my hero and he did a thing I didn't like" Come on guys, it's more like "Luke's character is inconsistent with what we know of him and the explaination giving for his actions in this movie really weren't adequate". I know CD has this obsession to enjoy the suffering of (SW) nerds but even I can share this sentiment and I'm not a super fan of Star Wars. Luke's whole story in TLJ felt wrong. I think it could have been done successfully with some more care but the way they did it was just sloppy and there is a reason why people didn't really feel emotional about his death (it doesn't even come close to the Luke/Vader scene in ROTJ, it's more like Kirk in the Next Generation movie). LinkesAuge fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Dec 30, 2017 |
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Dec 30, 2017 16:16
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Irony Be My Shield posted:The Rey's parents anti-twist was great and I really hope they don't chicken out of it in IX. She's important because of who she is and what she does, not her background. It's also an actually interesting character beat that she was so tied to an idea of who her parents were. But Rey didn't really have an idea of who her parents are, it was not her thinking Luke (or someone else WE know) might be her father, it was the audience. It was a anti-twist that had only an effect on the audience, not the character. Rey doesn't have ANY reason to assume that her parents are "famous"/"special", the only thing she cares about in TFA is finding her parents at all, it's not about having special parents. That's why this anti-twist didn't work for me, you "surprised" your audience but why does this really matter? It certainly didn't matter for the characters in this movie. None of the actions taken in this movie were affected by this reveal, Rey didn't struggle more or less due to this revelation and she actually doesn't even seem all that bothered by it. I also don't get why people think her background ever was or is an important thing. It doesn't really matter either way. It's not like there haven't been (powerfull) Jedi not named Skywalker before. Once again all of this has nothing to do with the actual story, it's all just toying with audience expectations. That's okay to a certain extent but it shouldn't happen at the expense of the story. If you make Rey's parents nobodies who even sell their kid for drugs then it should have a huge impact on her character and the whole story, not some info you dump on the audience with a "gotcha" and then pretty much move on. If it doesn't have a profound effect then don't even bother with the whole parent angle/mystery (no reason why Rey couldn't have been an orphan without all this mystery bs for example). They (Rian) kinda tried to get something out of it (Ren's attempt to turn Rey with that whole "you aren't alone, I get you" thing) but it wasn't enough. That's something they should have spent more time on instead of useless Casino planet but that's another problem of TLJ, too many characters that "need" to get their own story despite the fact that nobody seems to have a clue what their overall arc in this trilogy seems to be (Poe is the very definition for this clear lack of an overall vision). So I can't blame Rian Johnson for creating this useless mystery box but I will blame him for discarding it in a very crude manner. PS: It would be nice if the new trilogy would finally start to explore who Rey is. That's the biggest failure of TLJ imo, ESB in the OT turned Luke from a blank (bland) slate to a well rounded character, this movie didn't do the same for Rey. So far TFA and TLJ have done a better job with Kylo than her and part of me feels like her gender is (sadly) the reason for it. To me it seems like they play it too save with her, don't allow any weaknesses or failures (because anything could be seen as anti-feminist) and thus she isn't really interesting as a character.
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Dec 31, 2017 03:22
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Turdfuzz posted:a lot of characters are poorly written i dont think reys vagina is the reason or at least not a big reason Oh I'm certain it is and that she is the character Disney will take zero risks with. That's why the movie doesn't really do anything different with the usual Jedi/Sith (Dark Side) setup and why there is no romantic storyline in the cards for her. I mean ask yourself why Finn gets the romance subplot (in a very clumsy way) despite the fact that you already have some chemistry going between Kylo and Rey and how it would totally turn things up side down if you had a romantic "relationship" (or at least interest) between the two sides of the force. THAT could have offered some interesting story potential, especially if you keep Snoke alive and use this in an interesting way. But that's all not possible because Rey has to be this idealistic, non sexual role model for young girls (people just don't have the same reservations for male characters, it's quite the opposite, people don't joke about Luke only getting to kiss his sister for nothing). That's what really makes me sad, this often wrong interpretation of what a strong female character should be trades one bad stereotype with another. We are going from one extreme to the other and this leads to very one dimensional female heroes. Maybe I'm wrong and the next movie will dare to do a lot more with Rey but that was my sincere hope for this one (before TLJ I wasn't on board to call out Rey as Mary Sue but at this point she sadly totally is).
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Dec 31, 2017 20:12
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Jonathan Fisk posted:the audience doesn't care why the empire 2.0 is strong and resistance is weak because they're conditioned to that as the state of things by now This would work for a reboot, not for a movie that's a sequel to the previous films. But even if you would want the same state of power as in the OT there could have been a thousand ways to do it better and in more elegant way. It's never a good argument to basically say "they didn't bother because the audience doesn't care". That's how Transformer movies are made. Do you guys want SW to become Transformers? ;p
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Jan 8, 2018 00:05
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Tender Bender posted:I liked the movie a lot but concede it's heavily flawed, but it's weird how some people have fixated on nitpicking the movie's highlights (kamikaze, anything with Luke or Kylo). Because they aren't really highlights. The kamikaze thing is for example a visually very impressive scene the first time you see it but it won't stand the test of time because it doesn't have much of an emtional impact. An uninteresting character dies and in the grand scheme of things nothing changes. Obviously not every scene needs to have such an impact but the problem with TLJ is that pretty much all big moments fall flat on their face and that's why people start nitpicking because there simply is nothing else left to take apart.
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Jan 27, 2018 02:38
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