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I like how Untold 2 has sort of combined the two styles, but I still prefer the EO4 skill map. Largely because, as a beginner to the series, its much easier to digest. This is what I have avalable to me, so don't worry about all those super skills further down the road or skills leading into other skills. Its small, segregated by level, and easier to understand. If I make a mistake its easier to fix, and by the time I reach the level 40 skills, I have a much better idea of what my guys do and how they all do it so I'm not panicking over which super skill to get first or throwing all of my points into stuff to get the super skill as soon as possible.
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Nov 19, 2015 00:50
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I assumed it was part of his outfit, like he was just rocking this fuzzy-dog-shaped epaulet or whatever.
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Nov 19, 2015 01:27
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Tyty posted:
 Tyty posted:Proficiency increases damage to targets with ailments 10 200%, doubling it. Unfortunately we don't have any yet. Oh, and there's a typo. The Runemaster's runes are actually additive effects, not multiplicative. Could help with getting certain conditional drops.
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Nov 19, 2015 02:54
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: ... and dot the i's... Done!
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The form presumably contains more than their name and guild name. Maybe hometown?
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Nov 19, 2015 12:07
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The dot the is thing was honestly supposed to be a joke, guess it didn't come across  Dr. Fetus posted:Oh, and there's a typo. Fixed, and thanks, I didn't actually know that. Thought it was just their class skill that was. Interesting.
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Nov 20, 2015 05:30
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 I'm kinda sad that nobody took note that Gabe "Anime House" Cunningham from Trauma Team is one of the Healer options and thus the only right option to use. AnotherGamer fucked around with this message at 12:12 on Nov 20, 2015 |
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Nov 20, 2015 12:09
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He's the only medic I'd ever consider using 
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Nov 21, 2015 02:26
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AnotherGamer posted:
I know one of the Medics throughout the series bears a resemblance to Derek Stiles. Or at least, I think.
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Nov 21, 2015 02:42
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AmewTheFox posted:I know one of the Medics throughout the series bears a resemblance to Derek Stiles. Or at least, I think.  This guy, probably.
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Nov 21, 2015 02:50
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AmewTheFox posted:I know one of the Medics throughout the series bears a resemblance to Derek Stiles. Or at least, I think. There's an actual appearance from him in the 2nd game. Though he got taken out of the remake.
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Nov 21, 2015 02:54
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Dr. Fetus posted:There's an actual appearance from him in the 2nd game. Though he got taken out of the remake. Alongside Angie, and Hoffman was in the original. Not sure about EOU, though.
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Nov 21, 2015 04:32
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Junpei posted:Alongside Angie, and Hoffman was in the original. Not sure about EOU, though. Hoffman was the guy who ran Ceft Apothecary in EO1. He then reappeared again as the Professor who gives Fafnir and Flavio their mission at the start of EO2U.
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Nov 21, 2015 04:36
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I believe there's also newer art of Derek and Angie from the EOU artbook? Next update is gonna be a bit late, by the way. I probably won't have free time until friday.
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Nov 23, 2015 21:04
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Tyty posted:I believe there's also newer art of Derek and Angie from the EOU artbook? You would be correct.  The mini-artbook that came with the pre-order version of EO2U also had these designs in it. IIRC, the English translation said Derek and Angie were planned to be party members very early on in EO2U? The artbook also has Frederica with a redesigned outfit, who was also a candidate for being a party member.
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Nov 23, 2015 21:12
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Angie is in EO3 in her Under the Knife 2 appearance too.
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Nov 23, 2015 21:13
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Ragnar Homsar posted:IIRC, the English translation said Derek and Angie were planned to be party members very early on in EO2U? wait what noooooooooooooooooo 
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Nov 24, 2015 00:47
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alcharagia posted:wait what noooooooooooooooooo I don't have the mini-artbook on hand so I can't remember if it said they'd be guest party members like Hrothgar and Marion or permanent party members ala Flavio, Arianna, Betrand and Chloe. The basic point is still that they were considered for some type of role in the party very early on in development. The same page also has Gradriel drawn in the same reference pose that the other Story mode characters are in an earlier part of the book, and art of Frederica in a new outfit.  e: Arianna's reference pose, for comparison to Gradriel: 
Rea fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Nov 24, 2015 |
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Nov 24, 2015 00:52
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I have it on hand right now, and from taking a look at that page it looks they were ideas the team was throwing around for the main story party.
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Nov 24, 2015 21:07
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By the way, aside from Linkskeneckt's and Fafnir, there really hasn't been a "magic knight" class in EO. I wonder why?
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Nov 25, 2015 21:27
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Junpei posted:By the way, aside from Linkskeneckt's and Fafnir, there really hasn't been a "magic knight" class in EO. I wonder why? ... besides the appropriately named Warmage, you mean?
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Nov 25, 2015 21:31
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Or the Gunner.
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Nov 25, 2015 21:34
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Supremezero posted:... besides the appropriately named Warmage, you mean? I meant a cross between an Alchemist and a Landskenect, not Medic/Landskenect.
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Nov 25, 2015 21:36
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War Edge skills, in both the original EO2 and EO2U, require status ailments to actually do stuff and aren't actually slash damage (they're untyped for damage calculations, although I think they count as slash for conditional drops). I think that qualifies for at least some definition of "magic." Also Landsknechts in their EO1/2 form have the elemental Chasers, even if they are complete and utter garbage.
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Nov 25, 2015 21:40
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Ragnar Homsar posted:War Edge skills, in both the original EO2 and EO2U, require status ailments to actually do stuff and aren't actually slash damage (they're untyped for damage calculations, although I think they count as slash for conditional drops). I think that qualifies for at least some definition of "magic." I already addressed the latter half of your statement, but I meant more Fire/Ice/Thunder spells combined with slashing and smashing.
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Nov 25, 2015 21:44
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Ragnar Homsar posted:War Edge skills, in both the original EO2 and EO2U, require status ailments to actually do stuff and aren't actually slash damage (they're untyped for damage calculations, although I think they count as slash for conditional drops). I think that qualifies for at least some definition of "magic." In the original EO2, all of them were untyped skills. In EO2U, they're Cut/Almighty, so they can take advantage of Cut weaknesses there at least.
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Nov 25, 2015 22:03
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Junpei posted:but I meant more Fire/Ice/Thunder spells combined with slashing and smashing.
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Nov 25, 2015 22:03
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What's the point of a damage class that's bad at two things? Elemental physical attacks are a common thing, so there's no reason to make them explicitly cast spells.
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Nov 25, 2015 22:06
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Clarste posted:What's the point of a damage class that's bad at two things? Elemental physical attacks are a common thing, so there's no reason to make them explicitly cast spells. Simple: they aren't bad. Ok, my class in my head (let's call it Rune Fencer for clarity) has above average strength and Tec, survivability around... A Dark Hunter, I guess? And acsess to second level and bellow spells and Landskenect skills. The advantage it has over a Alchemist is the ability to survive on the front lines and good attack for when it runs out of TP. It has an advantage over a Landskenect in a larger TP pool and stronger weakness hitting abilities. Thoughts?
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Nov 25, 2015 22:14
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Junpei posted:Simple: they aren't bad. So you have no real reason to not be it over Land and (in this game) Rune? Congratulations, you have successfully "invented" Imperials.
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Nov 25, 2015 22:17
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Supremezero posted:So you have no real reason to not be it over Land and (in this game) Rune? Disadvantages: not as hardy as a Landskenect. Smaller TP pool than an Alchemist. Not as high Attack as Landskenect. Not as high Tec as Alchemist.
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Nov 25, 2015 22:22
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A Monk with a Zodiac subclass. Holding a pretend sword. So all around pretty meh compared to a specialized class. What you're suggesting would be good in a game with a single character, maybe single character runs, or an SRPG where you sometimes need to send a dude out on their own... but in a game like EO where party synergy and character specialization are key it doesn't really work. Which kinda sucks because that kinda character is one of my favorite RPG classes, but really they just wouldn't be good. Maybe someone flexible enough to go either way, but not enough skill points to go into both? At that point though, you'd probably just use an alchemist or a landy.
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Nov 25, 2015 22:22
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As mentioned, you have created the opposite problem: an overpowered class. Specialization is always better, unless you're giving up nothing to have both skills, in which case you're overpowered.
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Nov 25, 2015 22:23
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Junpei posted:Disadvantages: not as hardy as a Landskenect. Smaller TP pool than an Alchemist. Not as high Attack as Landskenect. I...don't quite get what you want out of the class. The spoiler class mentioned there are very much "hardier" than Landsknechts, given their very high VIT and equivalent armor availability to Landsknechts. Not having equivalent stats to other classes makes no sense because EO has different damage formulae for different situations. Not having as high TEC as Alchemists doesn't matter at all if you don't have any skills that use TEC to begin with. Especially with regards to TP because TP costs vary quite wildly from class to class, meaning whether or not a low max TP amount is a hindrance is a matter of what skills you have. Highlanders in EOU/EO2U have pretty low max TP, but also have very low TP costs, consuming HP to make up for it.
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Nov 25, 2015 22:26
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Clarste posted:As mentioned, you have created the opposite problem: an overpowered class. Specialization is always better, unless you're giving up nothing to have both skills, in which case you're overpowered. Red Mages in FF games don't learn every spell from White and Black magic. Same here, replace White magic with Physical skills.
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Nov 25, 2015 22:26
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Junpei posted:Red Mages in FF games don't learn every spell from White and Black magic. Yes, and if they existed in EO then there'd either be no reason to use them or no reason to use medics. Edit: Incidentally, there's no reason to use medics because hybrid healers actually do exist in this game. Clarste fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Nov 25, 2015 |
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Nov 25, 2015 22:27
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Fine! Maybe have only base spells, but have Troubadour's "apply an element to an ally or themselves attack" skills?
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Nov 25, 2015 22:31
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Ragnar Homsar posted:I...don't quite get what you want out of the class. The spoiler class mentioned there are very much "hardier" than Landsknechts, given their very high VIT and equivalent armor availability to Landsknechts. Not having equivalent stats to other classes makes no sense because EO has different damage formulae for different situations. Not having as high TEC as Alchemists doesn't matter at all if you don't have any skills that use TEC to begin with. Especially with regards to TP because TP costs vary quite wildly from class to class, meaning whether or not a low max TP amount is a hindrance is a matter of what skills you have. Highlanders in EOU/EO2U have pretty low max TP, but also have very low TP costs, consuming HP to make up for it.
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Nov 25, 2015 22:39
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The only game where a generalist build is legitimately good is EO1, because of how that game was designed. Ironically, specializing in that game does more harm than good for your team. Just ask the Ronin and the Hexer. For all the other games, it's just better to specialize because of how skill points are handled. They're not easy to come by, and investing in like 2 or more skill trees at once is not feasible until late or post-game in most games where you can do that.
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Nov 25, 2015 22:39
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Clarste posted:Yes, and if they existed in EO then there'd either be no reason to use them or no reason to use medics. To be fair, this is because Medic's level of healing is overkill. If it was more like "medic is just right, and the hybrids were dinky", or something, Medics would be good.
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Nov 25, 2015 22:40
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Junpei posted:Red Mages in FF games don't learn every spell from White and Black magic. In FF1, Red Mages basically make the other two worse off, especially in the original NES release where INT didn't work and half the spells don't either. Red Mages got the spells that do work and stats that function and importantly, physicals. In FF3, Red Mages are a lame beginning class that fall off really fast as they don't get many spells at all. Sages then take up the both-schools approach and it-whoops! makes Magus and Shaman irrelevant. In the remake no one cares because it involves re-leveling jobs. In FF5 they make White Mages useless while Black Mages get at least more magic. But a Red mage with !Summon just outdoes everything else in world 1, until Red Mages get no more magic until you get doublecast, which is an accessory to !Summon or !Time. FFTA and FFTA2 follow the FF5 approach, where it's all about doublecast, baby. In FF12 IZJS they're li'l healers but more about their unique Arcane magick access. In Bravely Default they fall off when they stop getting spells, like in other games. But until then Revenge is such a good passive they make the regular mages sadder. In EO this means you either have a class that does everything which is too strong, a class that does everything but is lovely at it which is too weak, or a class which exists entirely to provide for others via subclassing/grimoires. And asking those crazy folks at ATLUS to balance a generalist with a bunch of specialists is begging for failure.
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Nov 25, 2015 22:48
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