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Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



Hedningen posted:

Georg Brandes, the leader of the Scandinavian Modern Breakthrough, was famed for both his lectures and his numerous, repeated affairs. After breaking it off with Victoria Benedictsson and giving her latest novel a poor review, she killed herself by slitting her throat with a razor in front of a mirror in a hotel. That suicide was the inspiration for the suicide in Strindberg's Miss Julie.

I do genealogy, and an ancestor hanged himself in police custody in Copenhagen 1881, so I was looking for records on him some time ago. In the police archives, there was a register of suicides & accidental deaths covering 1878–1907. After finding my ancestor, I leafed through it for a while out of morbid fascination and took a picture of this page:



Third from the bottom is Victoria. The two rightmost columns are method (Snitsaar i Halsen = cuts to the neck) and presumed reason (Livslede = life-loathing). Unfortunately the Copenhagen police cases on suicides 1863–1949 have been lost.

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Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



Hedningen posted:

Okay, that's drat cool. Mind if I use the picture for some of the materials I keep as a primer to theatre groups performing Miss Julie?

Go ahead :)

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



In keeping with the current tangent, here are two audio recordings of the earliest born person, Helmuth von Molkte who was born October 28, 1800 (recorded in 1889):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BBkFacaBHY

Also, a whale was caught in 2007 near Alaska that had a harpoon from the late 1800s embedded in it:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1554522/Whale-had-antique-harpoon-in-its-neck.html

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



I've always loved his severe eyebrows on that one.

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang




Make that thousands. The oldest recorded joke is from 1900 BC: "Something which has never occurred since time immemorial; a young woman did not fart in her husband's lap"

http://www.wlv.ac.uk/about-us/news-and-events/latest-news/2008/august-2008/the-worlds-ten-oldest-jokes-revealed.php

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



The Mentalizer posted:

You're loving with me, right? I'm not really familiar with your posting so I can't tell if you're being serious or not.

Please don't interrupt our enjoyment of the movie with your incessant talking.

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



ToxicSlurpee posted:

I think my favorite thing about ancient fart jokes and dong-related art is that it pretty strongly says all of that "kids these days, I tell you" poo poo is actually pretty stupid. Suggesting that the new generation is somehow single-handedly destroying the world by laughing at farts and penises is dumb. Humans have been laughing about farts and sex for as long as there has been humans. History has a pretty long record of how we've pretty much always been that way and probably always will be.

It's hilarious, and sad. Both imo.

I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
the frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless
beyond words. When I was a boy, we were taught to be discrete and
respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise and
impatient of restraint.

– Hesiod, 800s BC

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



Alhazred posted:

On the tombstone of a gladiator named Urbicus, who died at age 23 after 13 fights, it is written: "I warn you to kill those whom you have defeated". On the tombstone of the gladiator Diodorus it is written: "After breaking my opponent Demetrius I did not kill him immediately. Fate and the cunning treachery of the summa rudis killed me." (Summa rudis was the referee).

Nice!

This impressed me, the seal of Tut Ankh Amon's tomb stayed unbroken for more than 3 millennia:


Also shows that seals have basically been the same since then. A malleable material that you press a relief into, to prove its provenance.

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



Phyzzle posted:

I've often wondered about archaeological focus points, like king Tut. Like the idea that our ancestors were 'cave men'. Do you know how freaking hard it is to find a cave that you can live in? The reason our ancestors were 'cave men' is because we find their remaining art and tools where they could be preserved, which is in caves.

There were references to "The Hundred Schools of Thought", including Confucianism, that were wiped out by the Qin dynasty. Later, the Analects of Confucius were found embedded in an ancient wall somewhere, and I remember reading that this coincidence was a big reason for his lasting influence.

Probably the Dunhuang manuscripts, I remember reading about those recently. A kind of Chinese Dead Sea Scrolls situation with a walled up cave containing thousands of manuscripts.

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



Was looking for an old post of mine and came across these two splendid examples of historical handwriting:



To be fair, the top one is cyrrillic cursive & the bottom is gothic cursive (though in Danish), neither of which are at that similar to the latin cursive that our grandparents and parents were taught in school.

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



Kennel posted:

Thank god for typewriters & computers.

I can read most gothic cursive, but the example above took me + 3 older & more experienced readers weeks on/off to make sense of. The writer was a certain copyist Mohr who worked for the probate court of Copenhagen in the 1840s and is notorious in genealogy circles for his horrid handwriting.

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



FreudianSlippers posted:

If you were a goy and weren't already in a concentration camp for dissidents by the start of the war you were probably at least a bit of a Nazi. Like Naziish.

Unless you were in the resistance, secretly saving Jews or part of of one of those plots to assassinate Hitler. In the last case you might even still be a bit of a Nazi.

In my hometown, some of the fishermen helped to save WW2 fugitive Jews by shipping them to Sweden in the night/early mornings. A little known fact is that the fugitives paid money; I have no idea what amounts, supposedly it was to cover a sort of "life insurance" if the fisherman was arrested by the Gestapo and possibly executed.

Anyway, one of those same fishermen built a pretty grand house in the years shortly after the war, which quickly gained the nickname "The Synagogue" – ie the story was that he overcharged the Jews to become rich. The man who built that house committed suicide in the 1970s I think. Make of that what you will.

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



hard counter posted:

Speaking of Charlemagne there's a theory with some traction that his aggressive Christianizing of Europe led to the Viking Age. Some Franks high on zeal burn down some Norse temples in lower Denmark and the local Vikings go on a revenge raid or two and figure out that Christian churches are both rich and easy pickings, thus leading to a medieval gold-rush of sorts. At the very least Charlemagne's proselytizing by sword would have raised tensions contributing to Norse aggression.

Interesting, I would like to know more!

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



After Denmark lost its navy to England in 1807, there came a lot of laws on forestry (the navy had right of first refusal on any oak, and new ones were planted several places). Of course a lot of the then-planted oaks didn't become useful for ship building until ships were made from steel.

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



Captain Postal posted:

You can't mention that without mentioning Visingsö

On the Swedish island of Visingsö there’s a mysterious forest of oak trees; mysterious because oak trees aren’t indigenous to the island. The origin of the forest was unknown until 1980 when the Swedish Navy received a letter reporting that their requested lumber was ready.

The Navy didn’t know what the letter was on about, so they checked their records and it was discovered that in 1829 they had predicted a supply shortage of oak for warship building in the 21st century, and had ordered 20,000 oak trees to be planted in anticipation.

Nice! I had not heard that story before. It's funny sometimes how shortsighted our ancestors were, even when they were being "proactive", as it were.

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



I just read they found a group of like 27 people that were killed roughly 10.000 years ago. Near the Ugandan/Kenyan border. Anyway, lots of skulls busted in, broken ribs etc. Supposedly that's the oldest documented human conflict. I'm thinking there's thousands of earlier conflicts that just happened in less preservative environments. Humanity is a scourge.

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



goose fleet posted:

It makes you wonder what they fought about, and if it was really worth dying over, considering that thousands of years later nobody has any idea why they did it

Exactly! It could be like the chief of tribe A said some dumb poo poo to chief of tribe B and welp, that can't stand. I guess it could also be like a life or death access to livestock/grain situation, but considering humaty I'm gonna go with humans being assholes.

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



Captain Postal posted:

Unless you do a DNA test and find that the local population of 5,000,000+ people are related to tribe B and none to tribe A, then it sounds like it was wildly successful. A dead neighboring tribe doesn't compete for food.

Obviously. Not sure what you're getting at?

All nature is constantly fighting for survival, it's the lmao "nature" of the world. Animals, and thus humans, fight too. It's only now within the last several thousand years that we have an actual awareness of our continuity of existence across generations that we're realizing that we're loving the world up. I'm gonna excuse everything humanity did until say the invention of writing ca. 5ky ago.

Animals are assholes, but it's usually not a problem. When humanity is an rear end in a top hat, it's either an extinction event or a climate change.

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



Nessus posted:

Sounds like the doctrine of "total depravity" to me!

I def. don't vouch for it. I'm all about kindness to strangers, not from a religous angle, but just fuckin don't be an rear end in a top hat angle.

but im also a pessimist. I'm pretty sure humanity wont be able to stop themselves, so look forward to rising oceans and temperatures and storms and poo poo. i guess i should only say that to the rich cause everyone else will be dead.

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



i haven't read any of Diamond's books, but from an overview he seems pretty into a kind of anthropcentric universe, except it's western europeans. we "won" because the world was basically encouraging it by its geography and so on. it could in theory be true, but tbh it seems a bit cheap and kindof absolves us of all colonial wrongdoings. absolution stories are always popular...

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



It's rarely deliberate. I think I read that during the Indian Wars, they put a bounty on killing buffalo, just to gently caress with the native americans. Somehow they didn't manage to kill all buffalo, which is kinda weird, but good.

But anyway, usually extinctions aren't premeditated. They just happen. As someone else said a couple pages ago, they aren't trying to shoot the last one, they just want that one.

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



The priest in Åkirkeby on the Danish island of Bornholm enumerated the deaths from the black plague in 1653–4.

4895 people had died. In 1658 there's supposed to have been around 8000 people, so more than a third of the population died. Not in one day, but a pretty intense proportion.

Left page, right column:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=159152#159152,26756803

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



joshtothemaxx posted:

But is there a difference between "camp" and "homosexual" in mid-nineteenth century America?

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



ToxicSlurpee posted:

People always complain about how juvenile humor is these days and how everybody needs to grow up and stop telling rancid jokes. I'm sure we've all heard it as long as we've been alive; somebody bitching about how awful things are now and pointing to dirty humor as proof.

Shakespeare's works contain a "your mom" joke. One of the oldest written jokes found in English was a dick joke. In an old Viking epic one of the heroes is cursed with a penis so huge he couldn't have sex with his wife anymore.

Yeah the more things change, the more they remain the same. I think I posted the oldest documented joke earlier in this thread, from I think 3000 BC. It was a fart joke.

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



Pick posted:

Still weak compared to the Norse.

The vikings were norse....

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



nimby posted:

Do you have to take into account the preference for incest amongst the European nobility?

Rich or powerful people everywhere have tended to intermarry since time began. It's the easiest way to keep power and property from being spread too thin. I read a piece a while back on cousin-marriages in rich American families, it was basically the same.

Supposedly, British royalty descend from the prophet Mohammad.

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descent_from_antiquity and in particular the Confucius line is supposed to be valid.

Carthag Tuek has a new favorite as of 11:35 on Feb 25, 2016

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



Aesop Poprock posted:

Isn't there a huge debate as to whether Confucius even existed as a singular/actual person, let alone had a traceable ancestory?

It's possible, I have no idea.

To be fair, the further back one gets, the less "historical" historical sources get. Like the greek guy I'm too lazy to look up who just put whatever crazy poo poo he heard in his histories.

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



goose fleet posted:

So basically all of them

True, but I guess some were worse than others.

Here, this guy:

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



Ensign Expendable posted:

Getting a little nick on the edge of your blade isn't really critical damage for a sword. You can still cut up dudes just as well with it after.

Not according to the Extended Swords & Scabbards v4.0 rulebook; each nick gets you -1 on your d20. That poo poo adds up!

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



hard counter posted:

In a related fact, the vikings were in a similar position where readily accessible local sources of ore were of the lovely bog iron variety (in their case) so they coped with advanced forging techniques that were comparable to the blast furnaces of later periods. Since they had plenty of coal they did not need to meticulously layer their product. Once in a while a norse trader would come back from Persia with ore /iron of high quality and those, coupled with the aforementioned advanced forging techniques, produced some great weapons for the period. There was a documentary a few years ago about a particular maker of them (with a Frankish name iirc) but it was mostly a speculative piece about the manufacture techniques than a reconstructive history.

A historical maker? I would be interested in that if you can remember more.

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



Cool, thanks for the Ulfberht blades :)

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



goose fleet posted:

A rather forceful blowjob

Facial headblow to the crotch

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



To be honest though, mashing your face into an unwashed medieval scrotum might not be preferable to death.

Carthag Tuek has a new favorite as of 23:59 on Feb 27, 2016

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



imo anime is ahistorical

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



Much like italian pasta being a direct historical derivative of asian noodles, anime is a direct consequence of roman graffiti.

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang




Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



SeanBeansShako posted:

So how about that interesting history stuff goons?

Here's an interesting thing: I just read about a Dutch+Danish linguist/archaeologist team (Guus Kroonen and Rune Iversen) who are looking into the pre-Germanic substrate hypothesis.

So like, most languages in Europe are Indo-European. IE has branches into numerous languages, basically all languages in Europe that aren't Basque, Finnish, and I think one more. Anyway, there are some words and sounds in the Germanic languages (German, Dutch, English, Danish/Norwegian/Swedish, etc) that have very few, if any, cognates in the other IE languages. The substrate hypothesis is that these words come from a substrate – an earlier language that the Indo-Europeans assimilated. So apparently they've identified a few words that may be from the substrate – that is, a dead language that was spoken in northern Europe before IEs arrived and the proto-Germanic language started to form, so about 2.5k years ago.

A bunch of substrate reconstructions are listed here:
http://www.cranberryletters.com/pre-proto-germanic/

Now I'm not a linguist so I have no idea if it's plausible or not, but it's super cool anyway.

Carthag Tuek has a new favorite as of 01:25 on Feb 28, 2016

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



FreudianSlippers posted:

Finnish, Estonian, Hungarian, Sami, Meadow Mari, Hill Mari, Khanty, Mansi, Komi and probably a bunch of ones I'm forgetting are all Finno-Ugric languages and not at all related to the Indo-European languages.

I'm also not a linguist and probably a bit full of poo poo somehow.

Yeah I shoulda said family or something. Not being a linguist is heck on my linguistic accuracy.

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



BJPaskoff posted:

This just popped in my head from a conversation I overheard, maybe someone can clear this up: I've heard that everything we know about the ancient druids basically comes from people who hated/destroyed them, and their own historical records either never existed or were completely eradicated. And anyone who follows the "druidic religion" is practicing something cobbled together out of fantastical myths.

That's pretty much right. It is a fact that there were druids and they had rituals and stuff, but there's no evidence of what they did or how they did it. Pretty much anything specific you'll hear about druids is a later invention.

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Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



But are there any real facts in ol' Jules writings? Afaik that's it: Druids existed, they had rituals (probably related to forests), that's it....? Or?

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