Warhammer Code 30k: Hope Is The First Step On The Road To Disappointment

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BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

MrSquarepants posted:

Please correct me if i'm wrong, but is the only way to play 30k by buying the FW Heresy books(the book specific to your legion)? And all those add rules wise are the army lists, which all use core 40k rules? I have some space marines from a couple years ago that have been collecting dust. I'd like to give my old models a new lease on life and try 30k, but I don't want to spend $100+ on rules. Is there any other cheaper way of seeing 30k rules? Sorry if this has already been asked before!

30k is not just an army list, there are a lot of other changes that make it different. The rules also cost less than a GW codex.

That said, if you just want to read through them before you buy anything, you can always :filez:

# ¿ Nov 17, 2015 21:55

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 12:36

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

No, it's me. I'm Alpharius

# ¿ Nov 18, 2015 02:24

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Or look through the existing legions and find some rules that fit the feel for that army.

Nobody makes decals or shouldrpads, but that shouldn't stop you. It's pretty darn easy to make your own decals.

# ¿ Nov 18, 2015 04:41

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Your other options are storm eagles, assault rams, and assault claws. The 3 armies are well balanced this way- space marines have the best troops, but some of the most extreme transport options (rhinos suck, but you have like 4 AV13/AV14 choices). Imperial Army have amazing transports with demolisher cannons, but no assault vehicles. Admech have low cost durable transports, but also no assault options or real weapons on them.

PantsOptional posted:

Having looked at Dreadclaw Drop Pods, I need to check that I understand how they work. You Deep Strike in with them from Reserves, but they stay closed up and start flying around the board in hover mode until the models inside disembark, who can then go on to charge that turn since it's an Assault Vehicle? Is this correct? If so, what's the downside to them for armies that can take them, besides the cost?

It's like this: drop down, flat out, jink if needed, next turn 6" move, 6" disembark, and then your charge. Can't assault the turn it does down unfortunately. The drawback besides cost is that your earliest assault is on turn 2 and you stand a good chance of loosing it to something like a dodo dread. You really want 2nd turn to drop one of these down.

DJ Dizzy posted:

Loyalist Luna Wolves

Garviel Loken: Rite of War (The Black Reaving) 175
Master of Signal: artificer armour 105

14 Reavers: jump packs; + 1 Reaver Chieftain (melta bombs) 340
9 Reavers: power weapon; power fist; + 1 Reaver Chieftain (melta bombs) 240
19 Tactical Space Marines: chainswords; + 1 Tactical Sergeant 290

2 Rapier Carriers: 2� laser destroyer array 110

3 Jetbike Sky Hunters: volkite culverin; melta bombs 160
9 Seekers: 9� bolter (banestrike ammunition); + 1 Strike Leader (melta bombs) 255

Sicaran Battle Tank 135
Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer 190

Loyalist Death Guard allies:

Crysos Morturg 175

19 Tactical Space Marines: + 1 Tactical Sergeant 250
6 Tactical Support Marines: volkite calivers; + 1 Tactical Support Sergeant 165

Contemptor Mortis Dreadnought: 2 Kheres pattern assault cannons 180

4 Grave Warden Terminators: 2� heavy flamer with chem-munitions; 2� chainfist; + 1 Chem-Master 230

3.000 points

This is my 2k point army without the DG, cranking it up to 3k with them. The idea is to have Loken outflank with the small reaver squad, and have the jetbikes deepstrike. Seekers could come in from reserves, but probably not. Master of Signal goes with the main tactical blob.

This is fine for a friendly list, but at 3000 points you don't have a way to counter deathstars, your army is mostly foot slogging, and you don't have much mobility. I'd consder dropping some of your troops, like the blob, and using those points to plug some of your gaps.

# ¿ Nov 18, 2015 20:04

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

The latest rules gave it drop pod assault along with some heat blast stuff.

# ¿ Nov 18, 2015 22:04

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Stanyer69 is correct, there is no obsec so it does not confer over to other units. Sames goes with 'Implacable Advance'. Don't make the mistake of driving onto an objective and keeping your troops smugly inside on the last turn. Besides this Dreadclaws aren't usually dedicated transports unless you play SOH, Terminators, or are using the orbital assault rite of war.

Only troops (and a few other units) score. That's one of the big differences in the heresy.

PantsOptional posted:

Where would I find those latest rules? There's a 100 point version of a dreadclaw in book 3 but I didn't know if that overwrote the version from book 1.

Looks like the rules in book 3 and LACAL are identical, so those are the most current ones.

# ¿ Nov 18, 2015 22:34

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Panascope slew one of my persistent campaign characters in our first campaign game. Dude is getting put into a siege dreadnought and will have his very own dreadclaw pimpmobile. Even in death he will own.

# ¿ Nov 18, 2015 23:47

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

A safe number is probably one scoring unit for every 600 points. I also recommend that after you fill the compulsory choices you look for non compulsory scoring options as they are a bit more specialized. After you have 4 it's debatable if you need more.

tallkidwithglasses posted:

Sketching together a Blood Angels list right now and here's where I'm at. Going with Furious Charge, seems fitting.

TROOPS
19x Marines, additional CCW
+ELITE Apothecarion
+FAST ATTACK Storm Eagle, multi melta+lascannons
-588pts

TROOPS
10x Marines
+Rhino
-185pts

ELITE
Contemptor, 2x Kheres assault cannons
-205pts

ELITE
5x Terminators, Cataphractii armor
+HEAVY SUPPORT Caestus Assault Ram
-480pts

TOTAL 1458

I want to start with 1850 points and it feels like I have a lot of different directions to go- I was thinking the general tactics would be to have the Contemptor handle the backfield while the Rhino squad grabs a relevant objective, and then an entire army of flying death just motherfucks whatever targets of opportunity get presented to me. To that end, I was considering just making the terminators a command squad with thunder hammers and combi-weapons alongside a Praetor with the Blood Angels artifact sword and a Primus Medicae. Adding in upgrades and such and that takes me to 1850 easy, but it feels like my main deathstar unit is a massive points sink. Is it too many eggs in a basket, or is a Caestus a tough enough basket to make it work?

The Caestus is pimp, but it costs a lot of points at this point level. Nothing will shoot it down though. Having two death stars at 1500 points isn't that bad and it looks like a fun list. You could take the Onslaught force org so you can drop your rhino squad and use something more interesting. You would benefit a lot from a land raider Proteus or command rhino as it will help your birds make it onto the table on turn 2.

# ¿ Nov 19, 2015 07:46

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Apparently the Mini Wargaming guys are getting into the heresy. Excited to see their min-maxed lists now that 30k is popular with 40k gamers! It'll be as great as reading the walls of text ADB writes over on bolter & chainsword.

# ¿ Nov 19, 2015 10:03

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Deptfordx posted:

So thinking what I might do with a BAC box, plus 40k stuff (Rhino's etc) that I could use I've roughed out

The Cataphracti Praetor plus 4 more as a Command squad in a LR Proteus. Shame you don't have Redeemers in 30k, that'd be awesome.

2 x 10 man Veteran tacticals in Rhinos

The Contemptor, which I might get hold of a second Kheres for and run as a Mortis.

10 Gal Vorbak (my Possessed, which i'll have to rebase and do some remodelling)

Which leaves me 10 models to play around with and convert.

That's about 1600 points base, minimally equipped.

So what is the standard point size for 30k games that I need to plan for. Anecdotally it seems to be 2000 points is the 1500/1850 of the Heresy game, is that right?

Proteus isn't an assault vehicle. Also I'd consider a ride for your Gal Broback, but I guess you can just deep strike them, right?

# ¿ Nov 19, 2015 20:13

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Reavers are basically more niche veterans, which are good units in their own rite (see what I did there?). Being able to take them as troops without Pride of the Legion is a big boon.

# ¿ Nov 20, 2015 09:10

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Your list is shaping up dude. You are right, I misread your rite of war. Can't take heavy weapon squads as compulsory troops choices

You can take heavy support squads with x10 shredding heavy flamers thought :getin:

I like this list more. I would consider dropping the siege breaker and phosphex medusa shells as they are worse than regular shells imo. Also 100 points for apothecaries on smaller squads probably isn't worth it. I'd rather have more bodies in your support squads. You can use those points to get yourself a more meaty HQ or some more anti tank. You could probably fit in a dodo dread or rapier battery to help you punch through heavy armour better. x2 medusas, x3 rapiers, and a mortis is a good mix of support units imo.

# ¿ Nov 20, 2015 19:30

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

You can use Battlescribe, but it has errors and it doesn't take into account errata and FAQs sometimes. I just know the book well and use excel.

There are so many relatively good options that I have probably about 4000 points worth of stuff that I can rotate around depending on what kind of list I want to play. That's what makes picking your army so much more important (no pressure, heh)

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

I kinda feel like taking apothecaries to get augury scanners in squads is kinda lol fw

Legions have lots of access to interceptor, which helps counter deep striker armies as well as infiltrators. The 18" range limits the use, though. Makes apothecaries even more badass. Ask Stanyer69 about deepstriking 10 terminators in front of a 8 man plasma tactical support squad with interceptor :getin:

BULBASAUR fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Nov 20, 2015

# ¿ Nov 20, 2015 21:44

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

I wrote up some house rules for Hixson if you 1K sons guys want to use them in the meantime. You risk incompatibility with whatever FW creates though :v:

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

oh, I mean, they're great. I'm always like, "oh, 50 points to make my 20 marines have interceptor? sure, why not" because have fun with 20-40 bolter rounds.

Admittedly they are much more deadly in 40k, but you can still use it for good effect in 30k. Remember that you can intercept with your pistols. Some dude just deepstruck 12" away from you? Oh cool, gonna shoot you with 20 bolt pistols, then fury of the legion next turn for 80 more.

# ¿ Nov 20, 2015 22:39

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

not lame! posted:

That will probably be the Dark Angels

People poo poo on their relic, but almost nobody is immune to fear. If somebody has 6 infantry type units on the board turn 1 you stand a good chance of having a few of them run away before the game even begins.

Or maybe they'll get the Iron Warriors treatment and get something cool like +1 WS against immobile vehicles.

# ¿ Nov 20, 2015 22:41

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Look at me getting owned left and right. The DA relic looks like it only triggers when people are in assault, and its just fear and not leadership, which makes it firmly garbage, much like Panascope's posting.

# ¿ Nov 20, 2015 22:59

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

panascope posted:

Pros: half decent special rules (no Morale from shooting and re-roll failed Pinning tests), good special units, real good characters, 2nd or 3rd best Primarch in the game.

Cons: half poo poo special rules (grenades and melta bombs get Wrecker, The Bitter End), Warsmiths are lame and locked into a spectacularly lovely warlord trait, uninspired rite of war, almost no model support from Forgeworld. And the upgrade packs they do get don't really show off what people think of with Iron Warriors.

# ¿ Nov 20, 2015 23:13

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

The Sisko posted:

Ah ok that makes sense. Why don't you house rule some of that stuff as you guys seem fond of that anyway? Maybe instead of wrecker they get sunder or maybe the Warsmith gets Ignores Cover as well as his unit?

I played against 40k armies back when nobody really knew the heresy stuff. Half our group (actually, it was 70% Stanyer69) called the generic list 'overpowered bullshit'. Imagine if in the first heresy game we played together I'd thrown house rules ontop of everything. It's just easier to run something that exists to get people into the game. Now that we're all playing the same system it's easier. I'm waiting for the new legion book. The shattered legions and blackshields are supposedly getting rules so if I feel particularly bitter there's always that option to make everyone extra super mad

ITT: Bulbasaur, Heresy Hipster

# ¿ Nov 20, 2015 23:58

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Some of them do, yeah. It was FAQed or added into LACAL, I don't remember how it happened exactly. Tyrants as troops is a pretty popular choice.

# ¿ Nov 21, 2015 01:16

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

That's a solid list, IMO. I question if the navigator will be really put to use though. If you want to keep him around because he's cool, then give him a familiar so he gets a 4++. Otherwise drop him and use those points to give your melta rhino squad more power weapons and maybe even melta bombs. AA on your sarges is also a good option.

Other than that, you could changing one of the duplicate tactical squads into something else. I like it though.

# ¿ Nov 21, 2015 10:35

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Rapiers are one of the best support units at low points games. All of the weapons have merit except maybe the quad heavy bolter.

tallkidwithglasses posted:

Re-doing mine, going with the Onslaught force org as suggested

HQ
Praetor,
Cataphractii armor, master-crafted photonic blade
-200pts

TROOPS
19x Marines, bolt pistol+CCW, meltabombs on sergeant
+ELITE Apothecarion
+FAST ATTACK Storm Eagle, multi melta+lascannons
-565pts

TROOPS
8x Support Squad Marines, plasma
+HEAVY SUPPORT Land Raider Proteus, twin linked heavy flamer, explorator augury web
-535pts

ELITE
Contemptor, 2x Kheres assault cannons
-205pts

ELITE
5x Terminators, Cataphractii armor, Illastius-pattern assault cannon
+HEAVY SUPPORT Caestus Assault Ram
-490pts

TOTAL 1995

A good and fun list. I dig it. My only suggestion would be adding AA and power weapons on your sarges.

# ¿ Nov 22, 2015 03:52

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

by.a.teammate posted:

Can you mix and match squishy humans and space marines? I like both but I don't think I can start two armies at once, do any of the chapters work with the solar auxiliary?

No chapters exist in 30k :commissar:

All legions can ally in Solar Aux, Imperial Army (not out yet), and Cults/Militia. Only a few are battle brothers though.

# ¿ Nov 24, 2015 09:30

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Here's how I have heard it described:

Solar Aux = Elite Humans. Lots of armoured support. Not very diverse.
Imperial Army = Mixed bag of units. Some armored support options. Some diversity.
Militia = Lowly trained units. Little armoured support. Very diverse.

We haven't seen the actual IA army list yet, but its supposed to be a mix of the existing ones.

# ¿ Nov 24, 2015 10:59

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Mango Polo posted:

Are you taking donations? It's kinda tempting to give you an old metal dread and hearing a week later about who got sent to the hospital with a concussion.

If Stanyer destroys my models I think I would just hang my head down and stop playing forever.

DJ Dizzy posted:

http://heresy30k.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/5112-vlka-fenrika-rules-wishlisting/?p=100616

I got tired of waiting on the SW rules. So I made my own. Please tell me how im bad at making balance decision

Some suggestions:

code:

Legiones Astartes (Space Wolves)
-Units with the Legiones Astartes (space wolves) have the furious charge special rule. In addition at the beginning of a game turn, and only once per game, you may elect to reroll all failed charge distances by units in your primary detachment. All units with Legiones Astartes (space wolves) gain Hatred (Legiones Astartes) during this turn.
-May not use librarians, destroyers, phosphex weapons, moritats, forge lords, or rad-weaponry. Must always issue and accept challenges. 
-Units with the Legiones Astartes (space wolves) must always pass a leadership check using a units lowest value before charging psykers or units with the Daemon special rule

Wargear
-A character with Legiones Astartes (space wolves) may upgrade a power weapon to have +1S for an additional 5 points
-A independent character with the Legiones Astartes (space wolves) special rule may purchase a Runic Storm Shield for 30pts. Runic storm shield confer a 3+ invulnerable save.
-Infantry and Jump infantry may exchange their CCW and pistol for a heavy chainsword or chainaxe and pistol for no additional cost.

Not even going to attempt the ROW and unique unit stuff. That takes a lot of effort to balance.

# ¿ Nov 24, 2015 22:38

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

I know nothing about SW honestly. They just need some drawbacks for what were some major perks. This is what Hixson is using:

quote:

Legiones Astartes: Thousand Sons

Latent Psykers
When rolling for psychic powers, roll 2D6 instead of 1D6. Either result may be picked as the psychic power. Duplicate results may be re-rolled. In addition, all psychic powers are manifest on a 3+ instead of 4+ roll.

Psychic Leadership
A Thousand Sons Praetor may be upgraded to be a Sorcerer Lord for 40 points. If upgraded in this way, the Sorcerer Lord must take up to four levels of Psychic Mastery (costing 25 points each, the first being free) from any discipline except Demonology. Units upgraded in this way must replace their chainsword or combat blade (or power weapon if in Terminator armour) with a force weapon for no additional cost.

Thousand Sons armies must always include a Sorcerer Consul as a 2nd compulsory HQ. Sorcerers are a 35 points upgrade with the following options:
Psyker: Must take up to three levels of Psychic mastery (costing 20 points each and the first being free) from Biomancy, Pyromancy, Telekinesis, and Divination.
Wargear: Must replace their chainsword or combat blade (or power weapon if in Terminator armour) with a force weapon for no additional cost.

Any Sergeant may be upgraded to be a Thrall-Wizard using the rules below:
Thrall-Wizard: +25 points
Psyker: Must take up to two levels of Psychic Mastery (costing 15 points each, the first being free) from a single Psychic Discipline: Biomancy, Pyromancy, or
Telekinesis.
Wargear: May replace their chainsword or combat blade (or power weapon if in Terminator armour) with a force weapon for an additional 15 points.

Knowledge is Power
The Psychic Mastery level of a Sorcerer Lord must always be one level higher than a Sorcerer Consul. In addition, the mastery level of a Sorcerer Consul must always be one level higher than all Thrall-Wizards in the army.

The Flesh Change
After all units are deployed, but before the beginning of the game, roll 1D6 for each unit with a Thrall-Wizard instead of a sergeant.
D6/Result
1- The unit no longer counts as scoring and may not contest objectives
2- The unit counts as destroyed at the end of the game
3-5- The Thrall-Wizard always subtracts 2 from perils of the warp results
6- The Thrall-Wizard immediately gains an additional warp charge

In addition units with Legiones Astartes: Thousand Sons must always roll 3D6 when making leadership tests resulting from perils of the warp results.

We have invisibility only reduce BS and WS to 1 instead of the usual bullshit.

# ¿ Nov 25, 2015 10:59

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

I hope Dorn gets a +2 strength unwieldy heavy chainsword without master crafted

# ¿ Nov 27, 2015 22:55

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

There's a whole thread on B&C about IF players bitching about Dron's chainsword. Poor guys.

tallkidwithglasses posted:

Is there an actual primaris lightning model? Or just the Voss pattern one from FW?

That's the right one

# ¿ Nov 28, 2015 04:30

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

I just hope they drop the ork aesthetic. I can deal with little stars on everything.

# ¿ Nov 29, 2015 02:28

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

I figured they'd get some template or artillery perks: like forcing re-rolls to cover saves or lifting the 0-1 artillery restriction. Their current rules and models are all across the board. No real focus. In other words:

# ¿ Nov 29, 2015 03:30

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

What's wrong with a big mess of giant muscular dudes smashing into each other?

# ¿ Nov 30, 2015 05:23

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

panascope posted:

I don't think there was anything wrong with your birthday party

Wrong was refusing to get into the mud with the rest of us

Stanyer89 posted:

Mi yag.

Wow, same

# ¿ Nov 30, 2015 12:16

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Hixson my dude, you lucked out. Looks like mk4 is now their 'standard look' so any upgreydd parts will fit right into your squads. The shoulder pad looks a lot like yours too. Definitely stick with yours.

# ¿ Nov 30, 2015 21:08

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

He plays space wizards and that armour is clearly for space wizards

# ¿ Nov 30, 2015 21:55

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

DJ Dizzy posted:

My first horus heresy marine
C&C please?

Looks drat good. Whats your recipe? Really digging the metallic highlights you did. I love that effect.

# ¿ Nov 30, 2015 22:49

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

I'd consider drybrushing a silver very lightly over the raised flat surfaces (like the shoulder pads, knees, and top of the helmet). Keep it really light and it will really make the worn metal look pop more. Still looks dope dude.

# ¿ Nov 30, 2015 23:41

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/The-Horus-Heresy-Legiones-Astartes-Isstvan-Campaign-Legions

If you have this book hurry if you can. Sell sell sell. Now I'm worried the drat Legion Book will get dropped all stealth like.

# ¿ Dec 1, 2015 11:35

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

You guys are crazy. My Campaign Legion book sold less than a few hours after I put it up. For $65. I took pictures of my legion rules so there's no loss except calling out Panascope on his incessant cheating. I hope they run out of the other book so I can make double on it too.

BULBASAUR fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Dec 1, 2015

# ¿ Dec 1, 2015 21:41

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Responded, sorry for the delay dude!

E: ...and I just sold Panascope's book for the same price. Sell sell sell

BULBASAUR fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Dec 1, 2015

# ¿ Dec 1, 2015 22:07

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Online I see lots of Spartans, Sicarans, Typhons, and Primarchs. People bring these because they are good units on paper and because its easy to build death stars in 30k. Its also fun.

You don't have to use these though. I encourage people to think outside the box. Yes, a Spartan is rock solid unit, but its 600 points for a single transport and the short range melee unit that's inside. For less points there are other ways to deliver your deathstar. For even less points there are reliable ways to block an enemy deathstar and popping their AV15 ride.

# ¿ Dec 3, 2015 21:35

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 12:36

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

It's everything a land raider wishes it was. It's a good unit, but it's not the only way to get across the board. It's also just a transport (then again I have never been into Land Raiders).

That said for the same points I'm considering mounting up my tac squads into one or two Protei with Multi Meltas and outflank. Gives me tough transports and leaves my troops out of harms way for a turn or two. The more I play the more I realize 30k is about deleting enemy troops while protecting your own.

# ¿ Dec 3, 2015 22:18

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Warhammer Code 30k: Hope Is The First Step On The Road To Disappointment

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