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Antti posted:The third sector is included too so it's totally not just about the private sector, guys. Freedom of choice! We wouldn't want people to choose now would we, especially if it means someone might make a profit by doing something the public sector just can't seem to do, like offer doctor's appointments without a 2 month wait. Also, the third sector will include players like the church (diakonia, diacor etc) and Folkhälsan. Not exactly tiny players on a Finnish scale. But I guess it's easy to ignore them and continue crying about how the government doesn't do 100% of everything anymore because it's a step away from,communism or whatever you're imagining.
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Nov 9, 2015 16:30
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Cerebral Bore posted:Yeah, god forbid that triage would be based on medical need rather than the ability to pay. Good thing SoTe uudistus doesn't affect this at all, but also strange thing how when you introduce some aspect of paying to medical treatment doctors all of a sudden start treating a lot more patients. Funny that. Valiantman posted:Your :tenbux: priorities aside, how on earth do you expect deacons to take responsibility of public health care? They do have nurse training, yes, but in practice? Doing physical checkups on their customers in the side? That's like suggesting the guards take over policing because they know how to deal with public disturbances. I don't expect deacons to do it, I was giving an example of an institution which runs healthcare / social services (which are also covered in SoTe) and is neither a government ministry nor a private for-profit company
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Nov 9, 2015 22:23
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Oldsmobile posted:This is a problem that keeps private health insurance prices high as well and the reason the US system is crazy expensive. Herman Merman posted:The purpose of the health care system is not to get doctors to treat as many patients as possible but to maximize the health and well-being of the population. I'm sure a lot of doctors would be happy to perform all kinds of unnecessary tests and interventions if they were paid for it. We don't yet know how the SoTe reforms will affect government paid things and I don't know exactly what capacity the private sector will have to charge for "unnecessary" stuff. The whole point is that while "an efficient holistic, yet centrally commanded system can save money", setting one up is a bit more difficult. If the private sector can provided some services cheaper and better, might as well let them. Right now they're doing a great job with the "better" part for basically anyone making an above median income when it comes to minor things.
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Nov 10, 2015 16:58
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Hogge Wild posted:some people think that terrorist blow themselves up because they don't have enough money for edam and iphones and not because they're members in a hosed up pedocult So glad we have so many middle class kids willing to blow themselves up with 100 other people because of poverty and inequality
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Nov 15, 2015 19:05
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Fish of hemp posted:Then why? If their actions doesn't come from the disappointment to and disillusioment caused by capitalistic system, then why? Middle class muslims just be crazy or what? Most of then aren't poor, not on a national level and definitely not on a global level where they're rich. Their manifestos don't mention capitalism, just Islam. The capitalism narrative is just something you choose to attribute to their actions because that's what you consider to be the source of all their problems. If it was about lack of opportunity or capitalism, you'd see much poorer radicals and a much more even,split between Islam and non-Muslims. Oh, and they wouldn't ramble about destroying godlessness or whatever.
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Nov 15, 2015 20:09
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Rexroom posted:Funny that law where Finland can't give military assistance. I didn't know it even existed, what will all this talk about should we join NATO or not. (Sauli) Niinistö said they started repealing it last year when they weren't able to help Sweden hunt for the submarine, yet for whatever reason they still haven't managed to. How the hell is it so difficult to get anything done in this country?
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Nov 18, 2015 13:10
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doverhog posted:Also Jolla was basically directly competing with android and someone actually thought that was gonna work? Yeah and Android tried competing with Nokia and Symbian without any device manufacturer commitments. lol idiots. CAT rear end now!!! posted:did Jolla ever even get as far as to release something, I can't recall seeing a single product of theirs anywhere They made a phone Ligur posted:They expanded like crazy "lol from 150 to 600 in a year haahaahaa" and even tried recruiting some of my friends. They were like, nah. Wheany posted:Same goes for Rovio, btw. They hired a shitload of people, but didn't really seem to be able to get anything interesting out, just angrier birds. Probably their biggest problem was the need to expand super quickly and start incurring high costs without having any sales. Potentially high reward, but also very high risk, turns out the risk hit here.
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Nov 21, 2015 14:31
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It's damned if you do, damned if you don't for intelligence agencies. After every terrorist attack there's always a "why didn't you blahblahblah to blahblahblah?" Even after these Paris attacks they talked about how the perpetrators were marked as potentially radicalized or something (ignoring the fact that 10,000 Muslims in France are) and how they should have been stopped randomly. A country like Sweden especially which has a pathetically small police force and a ton of "potential radicals" probably don't have time to actually check anything properly. Sure they screwed up here but it's going to happen.
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Nov 23, 2015 14:13
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quote:Ohjeistuksen mukaan ministerien erityisavustajien palkkausmäärät ja -perusteet määräytyvät euromääräisten palkkausluokkien (A 25 - A 30) mukaan. From the article posted here earlier. What a way to decide on compensation. Not merit, but how many years you've managed to stick around. Anyway, I predict EK will come back to the table and keep our stupid system of central bargaining alive. Wages freezes are not enough, that's been what everyone's said from the beginning. Inflation is near 0% anyway, it's not like the wages would have risen much anyway. You need actual cuts, not just empty promises from the unions. And so far the unions have yet to compromise on anything. Funny thing how the government with its policies is now the only party that can enforce something on all workers since it's clear there is no room for a negotiated "grand settlement" and it'll have to be dictated down or negotiated at a more local level. What a shocker that AKT is gone from the table too. When don't they take an opportunity to strike? You'd think with the amount of complaining about possible wage cuts and how they're going to affect workers' lives, you'd be just as concerned about regularly foregoing your pay to go on strike. And before someone tells me about lakkoavustus, take a second to think about where that money comes from.
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Nov 26, 2015 21:18
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I don't give a poo poo about rape but can someone please valaistaa these immigrants how to not sit at the Burger King at the train station all day without ordering anything? I want to sit on the comfortable seats, what's wrong with the benches in Somalia?
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Nov 27, 2015 20:44
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Bensa posted:Hides ownership information of various financial products, a good way of not paying tax and hiding conflicts of interest. You haven't actually explained what they do, you've just repeated a common media complaint about it. How is ownership hidden by organisations that track/register/transfer ownership rights? How come in many systems where this has been done under a system that allows competition for years (pretty much everywhere except Finland) people still go abroad to hide taxes (i.e. Swiss bank accounts, Cayman shell corporations) instead of just "using a dodgy hallintarekisteri"? Do you think the US, Germany and Britain's tracking of individual stock holdings is any worse than Finland's? Basically, instead of being lazy and just repeating what the media and Li Andersson's twatter account tells you, how about you actually break it down for me to show you understand what a hallintarekisteri is: 1) What is the current system for registering share ownership? 2) What is the proposed system for registering share ownership? 3) How does the proposed system facilitate tax dodging? 4) What safeguards can be taken against the system facilitating tax dodging?
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Nov 29, 2015 20:58
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Andrast posted:Could you please explain the reasons why we should move to a hallintarekisteri in the first place? Our government certainly hasn't done that There are basically no good reasons other than "everyone else has done it and the EU sort of wants us to do it", but it doesn't make a big difference either way. Here are some potential reasons though: https://www.fkl.fi/ajankohtaista/tiedotteet/Sivut/Miksi_finanssiala_kannattaa_hallintarekisteria_I.aspx (for the lazy/people who can't read, they are 1) useful for large investors who need to offer their shares for collateral / shorting 2) compliant with EU rules 3) helps small Finnish banks) Herman Merman posted:90% of the civil servants in whose area of expertise this thing falls sure seem to think so. Yeah and the Bank of Finland, most banks and Finance Ministry are for it, but do you know what it actually is? Bensa posted:The ability of law-enforcement to track criminal financial patterns depends on having access to a broad dataset. With hallintarekisteri not all information is immediately available and would need to be specifically requested in an investigation (this varies on the implemented system), but if you would need that data to get to the point where you can show probable cause you're in a catch 22 situation. So its a great way to stop shady business being detected unless something else pops up elsewhere that can be used to justify data requests. And it won't stop there, you can bet if it goes through that further obfuscating measures will follow which will also serve the interests of the same people. edit: I should say I mean hallintarekisteri as it's currently proposed in Finland, where the data would still be made public 4 times per year quote:If you've happened to visit a bank recently you should know that anyone with an ordinary bank account needs to tell the bank all sorts of information about incoming and outgoing transactions, possible values and countries for foreign transfers etc. If the government is leaning so hard on the banks to collect information from low net-worth individuals to cut down on the grey market, money laundering etc, then why shouldn't investments be subject to such data collection? The amounts of money involved and the ability of those involved in concealing dealings are far greater. quote:The justification for this is the same as the government cutting down the funding of the financial investigation division, which is efficient enough to actually turn a profit so its not an actual cost cutting measure. Its not about business or a financially sound systems, its purely ideological/cronyism/corruption. Geriatric Pirate fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Nov 29, 2015 |
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Nov 29, 2015 23:17
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Also, why would anyone try to illegally avoid taxes or something using a hallintarekisteri when you can legally avoid taxes and registering your share ownership through financial products that are advertised on the main webpages of our biggest banks: OP https://www.op.fi/media/liitteet?cid=151671410&srcpl=4 Nordea http://www.nordea.fi/henkiloasiakkaat/saastot/sijoittaminen/capital-sopimus.html There we go, park your savings in those, avoid capital gains tax until you take out the money (or avoid it totally by moving to Sweden for 6 months to take it out) and do all your trading even more anonymously than a nominee registration would allow you. If you've actually got savings worth poo poo, you can even do this with higher customization and almost 0 fees. Jyppe posted:Let's consult dear leader. This is actually a good article, other than when the guy starts injecting his own opinions, especially about how we should be "a leader" by having our own system.
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Nov 30, 2015 00:09
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Jerry Cotton posted:This is literally the only non-bad thing you've ever posted. Congratitutions! Here's a thought for you: Click the question mark under your username here, maybe check the old thread as well. Count the number of times you've tried to post something funny, and the number of times anyone's acknowledged it as funny. Then re-evaluate your life. Bensa posted:Opening up hallintarekisteri of Finnish clients to international competition means those clients can legally go abroad to financial institutions that are not required to comply with Finnish law enforcement requests. Did you somehow miss this part, its one of the main points being made public? quote:Financial regulators are also the ones who reversed Glass-Steagall, and its like in Europe, so clearly they have the best interest of the electorate at heart, rather than those of the vast financial institutions they used to work for, all their friends work for, and where they will go after their stint in the public sector.
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Nov 30, 2015 22:14
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Hob_Gadling posted:Unfortunately it is not. I bet that guy is wondering why 180 Finnish people have shared his video (and who the hell stumbled upon it in the first place)
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Nov 30, 2015 22:30
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Cerebral Bore posted:http://yle.fi/uutiset/sdp_hengittaa_jo_keskustan_niskaan_perussuomalaisten_syoksy_syvenee/8499909 Too bad for you Sipilä, Stubb and Soini are still in power for the next 3.5 years regardless of what the polls say
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Dec 3, 2015 14:26
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Cerebral Bore posted:Mate, throwing soda and/or a cake at someone is literally the mildest form of "physical attack" ever. It's not even in the same ballpark as throwing rocks through somebody's window at night. As opposed to the coke thrower, who's not petty or crying about losing the elections at all.
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Dec 3, 2015 19:26
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SnowblindFatal posted:I haven't met a right-wing-oriented person who didn't think he was somehow better than everyone else. The ones that are well off typically actually believe it's because of their own merits and not just having better circumstances in life overall. I haven't met a left-wing-oriented person who didn't think he was somehow unfairly screwed out of success in life and/or motivated by jealousy. Even the ones that are well off typically just look at people who are even better off than them and get jealous. (insert some link about middle-class Finns complaining about being poor and how incompetent their bosses are) That was easy.
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Dec 3, 2015 19:29
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SnowblindFatal posted:Yo, I know I'm privileged as gently caress by having a supporting family and being able to do technical university studies with ease. My future is set as gently caress. Yet I'm still a leftist!? :0 You're jealous as gently caress lol, it comes through so obviously every now and then. I remember in the previous thread you said something like "I think I knew you from high school, did your parents buy you an apartment at 17?" (of course, they didn't, nor did we go to the same high school) but it's just so obvious that you're a "leftist" because some kids in high school got more than you did and that's not fair. The funniest thing about you is once you finish your studies, get a real job, earn some money for a few years, buy a house and car and all that stuff you'll be voting Kokoomus for the rest of your life
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Dec 3, 2015 20:11
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doverhog posted:This kind of thing actually is not fair. Pretty solid base for solidarity based voting. It also doesn't hurt you at all except through reference utility/jealousy (if you're smart, you make friends with the rich kids and go to nice houses to party), but I guess it does make a nice base for you to throw in a few left wing votes until you get a real income and have to start worrying about things like taxes Geriatric Pirate fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Dec 3, 2015 |
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Dec 3, 2015 20:54
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Pussy Noise posted:For example dogs and primates refuse to cooperate if they are given unequal rewards for the same activity. Is it so outlandish to imagine that a similar moral behavior might be present in humans too? Beep boop I am a rational robot. Oh man, I forgot that jealousy is normal. Silly me, I guess it's perfectly ok to base your worldviews on jealousy. I mean if dogs and monkeys are doing it... doverhog posted:The ones with rich parents might end up subscribing to a just world fallacy and find notorious vampire Stubb attractive. Seems pretty unfair to them really. Oh no, not the just world fallacy  And no one in Finland, none of the political parties, not even Libera, opposes those things. But I'm not sure what someone getting a house from their parents has to do with any of that.
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Dec 3, 2015 21:44
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Hogge Wild posted:kyllä kokoomus kannattaa tulonsiirtoja lol @ "työväenluokka" those guys vote kokoomus now
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Dec 3, 2015 21:44
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doverhog posted:
Well, for one, less than half of the population actually works. But even then, I was focusing on the SnowblindFatal type of "leftist", i.e. educated and Helsinki based and whose biggest complaints about the current system ("student benefits are too low", "housing in Helsinki is too expensive") are ones that are going to look pretty trivial when you're voting for how to spend your money instead of how to spend everyone else's money. Of course countrysiders will vote Kesk and union dudes will vote SDP and the Swedes vote RKP and so on. Jyppe posted:Alright Gertti Pertti. i'll bite. Why exactly did you vote for the Kok? There are 3.5 parties in Finland that have economic policies that are somewhat in line with what anyone who's got a clue about economics would vote for. One is too focused on the countryside, another is too focused on a language group and while the greenies are usually ok they seem to be swinging to the left a bit and doing the whole "students are so poor" thing now. So that leaves Kokoomus. edit: read this http://www.libera.fi/blogi/vaatimattomia-toiveita-oppositiolle/ , even though it's targeted at the opposition it pretty reads like a "why I support kokoomus" document and I agree like 100% with it (also, it does a pretty good job of dispelling the myth that the cuts announced target poor people like this thread likes to complain) SnowblindFatal posted:For the record, I just got a job and I think I'll stick to the 3 day working week even after I graduate. I'll get by and have plenty of extra dough for whatever frivolous poo poo I want. lol Geriatric Pirate fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Dec 4, 2015 |
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Dec 4, 2015 00:34
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Rappaport posted:Mitäs jos piraatti menisit vaan omalle pihalle huutelemaan man up, is it that difficult to go 1 day without crying about the government and predicting the revolution?
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Dec 4, 2015 11:54
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Kuule hain nussivan posted:Oltermannia päivittäin, pappa betalar självklart. genuine lol
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Dec 4, 2015 13:17
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Herman Merman posted:Lol, you read Libera blogs. Are you Heikki Pursiainen irl? Just wanted to note on this though, I read Asiaton Lehdistökatsaus (but am not either of the writers) because it's hilarious, and it's almost completely apolitical in the sense that they just explain basic theory that the media regularly gets wrong. The fact that the people they pick on for getting theory completely wrong turn out to be former LA MPs or SDP economics advisers is more down to these parties picking non-economists to advise on economics issues than anything else. DarkCrawler posted:Children and the hopelessly naive look at the state of the world and think that hard work correlates into success, the system is fair and people deserve their money. I was a child and firmly in the upper middle class so I was definitely a right-wing shitlord (being raised Christian in a small town that included some social policies too).
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Dec 4, 2015 15:38
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I was lucky that evolution led to humans being created despite it being highly improbable - everything that's happened since then is just down to our species privilege and we owe it to other species to give away enough of our income such that all living things have the same standard of living
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Dec 4, 2015 16:24
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DarkCrawler posted:Not all living things, just all humans. But yes, our species privilege (sentience) does give us a special responsibility in taking care of the nature especially in cases where we have ruined it in the first place. It's called "environmentalism", maybe you have heard about it? You're taking the whole "well some people have advantages in life (aka privilege)", which is correct, to it's D&D conclusion that being wealthy/successful has nothing to do with hard work, which is utterly retarded. Especially if you're comparing Finns to each other instead of Finns to Liberians or something. Double Bill posted:Eiköhän sieltä ole tullut päällystöltä käsky että asia on loppuunkäsitelty. Poliisijohto on ollut viime kuukaudet täysin "Hitlerit bunkkerissa"-moodissa, eli sekavia ja ristiriitaisia ohjeistuksia ja lausuntoja samalla kun paskaa lentää tuulettimeen ympäri maata. after Aarnio nothing can surprise me about those people any more
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Dec 5, 2015 15:24
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DarkCrawler posted:Effort was needed, much less effort then someone coming from a less wealthy background or with less parental involvement or less stable living. In fact I hosed around for most of my school years but because I handled the basic things without problem (not always the case for most people) I could always pick up with just a day or two reading. quote:Most people who work hard are not rich (regardless of being entrepreneurs or working for someone else), ergo hard work has nothing to do with wealth or success, just meeting a specific set of circumstances where you luck out and make it. You can work as hard as you want, if you aren't lucky you aren't rich. Sorry that this basic fact is something that is lost to you but that is how it has always worked. That's just insanely retarded, but it does sort of explain why you vote left and why people who work hard generally vote right. Here's a thought for you: Most people who work hard may not become successful, but the proportion of people that do is much higher than for those who just goon around and complain about who unfair things are. Michael Phelps might have the perfect genes for a swimmer but that doesn't mean that he would be the best in the world if he didn't train like a mad man. The people who cry the loudest about how unfair things are and how everything is down to luck are also the people who refuse to even try whereas those who work hard and for whatever reason don't end up successful still tend to lean right. As for paying their fair share, someone making €1 million in a year will pay more in tax that year than the average person will pay in their entire life time. At some point you have to ask: If that person came from an upper middle class background like you did, why is your "fair share" a tiny fraction of theirs? Because they "got lucky" and got promoted to the top of an organization? What if the person came from a broken home or as a refugee or something?
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Dec 5, 2015 17:05
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Hogge Wild posted:stubbi on täysi paska, mutta antifantit harjoittaa enemmän katuväkivaltaa ja toisten mielenosoituksien yms. demokraattisen toiminnan tukahduttamista kuin normifantit Also their violence is the dumbest and least thought out thing in the world (maybe it makes sense in their own circles), such as attacking small businesses last year in some sort of big anti-capitalist statement My guess is that this year they'll accidentally target a charity shop or refugee center
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Dec 5, 2015 17:07
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Ok I'll respond once more because people jerking off over the weird anti-immigrant video stream is too boring for meDarkCrawler posted:"Completely different" haha. I bet most of the kids in your class, like mine, ended up leading boring middle class lifestyles. I bet the amount of people who make six figures that ever graduated from your school (unless it is a huge one) can be counted with the fingers of a single person. I bet way, way more people who graduated from your school work hard. quote:And if Michael Phelps had my genes he could train twelve hours every day and still be poo poo compared to world class swimmers. You can come up with some bullshit "luck" story about literally anyone. Phelps had the perfect genes for a swimmer, fine but many people do. If he'd been born with other traits, he probably would have worked hard at something else. Goons like to talk about how Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg are successful because they came from supportive upper middle class families and were intelligent, but so loving what, tens of millions of people have those exact same traits. If they'd be born with different traits, they would have tried to be good at something else. You're just spinning some bullshit ex post story about how it's all down to luck to justify your own lack of ambition. It's like the opposite of the real world where people in general tend to overstate the influence of skill etc. by taking something that happened which might have been complete luck or a 50:50 decision and spinning it as skill. You're taking the opposite road by focusing on some traits that people were born with, ignoring the fact that millions of other people are born with the same traits but never achieve anywhere close to the same levels of success, and then attributing all the success to those traits. It's a bit sad but mostly it's just going to hurt you. quote:The proportion of wealthy people who work hard is a lot less then the proportion of wealthy people who are lucky, which is 100%. It's pretty simple. So your measure is completely meaningless. You'll find some bullshit coincidence that happened and attribute all success to that. Hell, worst case, you can start saying "uhmm well they were lucky to be born in the 20th century instead of as a slave during the Roman Empire, so why do you keep going on about being forced to drop out of school because your dad died and how you built your business?  "
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Dec 6, 2015 16:48
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*throws rocks at police* *gets a black eye from a rubber bullet bouncing up and hitting him near the eye* argrhghghh huge unjustice police are out of control
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Dec 6, 2015 23:10
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Bring back DarkCrawler, his serious posting is much better than how some people here cry about the massive Nazi threat to society but do it in a weird "ironic" way that I guess is trying to be funny???
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Dec 7, 2015 20:02
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quote:Voidaan kysyä, miksi juuri dosentit joutuivat Sipilän purkauksen maalitauluksi. Ehkä kysymys ei ollut sattumasta. Dosentit ovat ainakin ”hyviä vihollisia”, joiden on vaikea puolustautua yhdessä. Dosentit edustavat korkeinta akateemista sivistystä ja huomattavaa erityisosaamista omalla alallaan. 
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Dec 9, 2015 10:54
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Oldsmobile posted:Actually, pumping money in to taking care of a bunch of people boosts the economy.
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Dec 10, 2015 20:17
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Check out Syria's thriving economy
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Dec 10, 2015 22:22
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Shop opening hours will be liberalized! Another step in the neoliberal conspiracy to oppress workers through choice.
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Dec 15, 2015 17:45
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Wait, I thought you guys were all for making all this information public? Address, phone number, income, shareholdings, all publicly available in the name of transparency, right? I mean who could possibly misuse that information...
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Dec 16, 2015 23:38
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Herman Merman posted:Why would you like to conceal your income and shareholding? Are you ashamed of them? Should you be? Yeah, and why would you care that some Russian guy has collected your address, phone number and the Facebook groups you're active in for everyone to easily find? Are you ashamed of them? Rexroom posted:You know, there is this thing called an illegal register... Yeah fat load of good it did in deterring this guy from making one.
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Dec 17, 2015 13:21
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Herman Merman posted:I haven't given facebook those pieces of information because I'm not *that* dumb. They didn't get the info from Facebook. They looked at posts in Facebook groups and got your name. Then they matched your name to publicly available sources which have your address and phone number. If they scanned an old veropörssi, they could match it to income as well. Rekisterilaki didn't do poo poo in this case, except when it was already too late. Politicians have to declare all sort of stuff anyway (wealth, income, board memberships, potential conflicts etc). Ideally the system would be on a "you need a reason to do this search" (or, you need to pay to do this search, as with phone numbers) instead of just being able to mass search for people's addresses, incomes and whatever. And there's no reason any politician's address should be public information. Nothing to gain from that. Cerebral Bore posted:I, too, think that e.g. a registry of stock ownership, the access to which is regulated by law and that is maintained for the purpose of making sure that everybody is paying their taxes (and thus somewhat important for the continued functioning of society) is on the same level as some randos datamining people's personal information for the explicit purpose of harassing people they dislike. SnowblindFatal posted:You know, I'm just waiting for the day GP gets tired of his charade and admits that he is a caricature gimmick account. Geriatric Pirate fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Dec 17, 2015 |
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Dec 17, 2015 16:12
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