DarkCrawler posted:

Lay off the FAKE NEWS! ACTIVIST BLOGGERS BIASED LEFTIST MAINSTREAM MEDIA crack pipe that is so popular in the right these days and try to understand that blogs, Yle and other journalism use those exact same numbers and actually analyze the data, critically ecamine the sources and look at the real world situation behind the numbers.

quote:

Köyhät köyhtyvät ja rikkaat rikastuvat: Laskelmat todistavat tuloerojen kasvavan
Rikkaiden ja köyhien välinen ero on pysynyt melko tasaisena toistakymmentä vuotta, mutta ero alkaa nyt revetä.

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Yeah, that's great and all but please go back to my post, point out and quote where I said unemployment is rising.

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Thing's are not getting better on employment, lol. Tens of thousands are being exploited in ridicolous "työkokeilut" for starters,

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Inequality not increasing at this one very short moment does not mean there is now no inequality, that this government is decreasing inequality or that the massive cuts instituted by this government did not hit the poor harder then the wealthy.

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Point me a poverty reducing measure instituted by this government that isn't a vague platitude about "economic growth" that you have hard time attributing to this government in a first place.
A policy that helps the rich MORE then it helps the middle class or the poor is lovely policy. Until you accept that is where most people are coming from, you're just not going to make mich headway here.

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And here is the thing about primary sources. They are vague and use soft language because they are usually, especially in the case of organizations the scale of IMF meant to not offend any particular government and increase cooperation with the organization. So it is very easy to make any argument you want using ONLY primary sources. Like say, if you were making the argument that this government hasn't achieved much.

Darkest Auer posted:

People in työkokeilu or any other 9-euros-a-day labor are not actually employed. I'm sorry if you think otherwise.

Krabboss posted:

I just moved to Finland from Australia 5 months ago. This country desperately needs more public servants. Also Australia recently replicated Finland's system of forcing the unemployed into doing underpaid labor in order to get the dole. It's exploitative and bad.

Also alcohol costs too much and everybody is depressed.

Rappaport posted:

Mitenkähän se on meidän arkkilibertaarimme mielestä, kuinka usein saa VERON MAKSAJAN RAHALLA käydä kusella ja paskalla

DarkCrawler posted:

And Germans pay like three times less for something that doesn't have the texture and edibility of rubber.

Darkest Auer posted:

Turns out labor costs go down when you don't have to pay anything to your employees. I'd rather pay a little more taxes and a little more for a kebab than live in a society that has slaves though.

Krabboss posted:

The key to a good society is cheap kebab by way of an exploited workforce incapable of collective bargaining.

Krabboss posted:

I'm not really sure what you're saying. I don't see how tax is related to low skill workers being unemployed. That's the case in every country. The tax in my home country of Australia is lower than it is here, but youth unemployment in my home town is still 30%. Industries which don't require high skill workers are dying in Australia and the same is true in Finland.

You seem to mostly want to bust up unions so that wages go down and more people are employed part time. I'm not sure how that would take care of the poor or what it has to do with taxes. I mean I'm new the country so I could very well be wrong, but if somebody in Australia said they wanted to help the poor by weakening unions and a nebulous lowering of "taxes," I would assume they're not acting in good faith.

Rexroom posted:

I don't think we can compete with developing third world nations in terms of wages just by tearing down our worker's rights. No matter what we'll do, they'll always have the upper hand with low wages and available population. And now that we're on the verge of a robotic revolution, I think it's time we start thinking outside of the traditional mindsets when it comes to work and society.

doverhog posted:

Taxes are not really the problem, the union mafia defending the employed at the expense of the unemployed, and the poorly functioning welfare systems are. It only makes sense to hire someone with low productivity if you can also pay them a low wage, and it only makes sense for them to accept a low wage if they don't get the same money from toimeentulotuki. That's why we need perustulo.

Jerry Cotton posted:

Oof that's classic Goonhitler down-melting. Poor bugger did it in the wrong thread.

Darkest Auer posted:

I was going to reply to the other horrible FYGM ideas in your post, but holy poo poo, are you seriously saying that an employee should submit to any arbitrary whim of the employer without question, no matter what?

Jerry Cotton posted:

Seriouspost: exploitation of the work force leads inevitably to physical violence. We will see workers' rebellions and guillotined GERIATRIC PIRATES like no-one in 100-150 years.

DarkCrawler posted:

Ligur got banned because he got humiliated and laughed at every time he posted in this thread, so he increasingly posted in shall we say, more behaved sections of the forums where they take things a bit more seriously while also being able to feed his addinction of being called a Nazi. It a was a vicious circle and banning was inevitable once he strayed out of this nihilistic shitposting safe space.

Shame really, the English-speaking retarded right-wing congregates more and more on their own forums where I constantly get banned or like Twitter or some other character-limit poo poo where it is impossible to make an argument. Economics is such a vague and dry subject with so many variables, it just doesn't have the same panache as dumping on a lunatic screaming about how Donald Trump is actually really smart


It's called being a "temporarily embarassed millionnaire"

doverhog posted:

You are some kind of fancy coder or such DCrawler? But IIRC you also support basic income, so ok, enjoy the monies.

This post was a reminder that GP agreed that we should have a basic income.

doverhog posted:

Ok? But we used no concrete numbers here, so you are posting this to make sure we know you don't support any leftist version of basic income, but rather a negative income tax, when they are the same thing with different branding. So, lol.

Cerebral Bore posted:

Indeed. The adherents of noted non-violent ideology Nazism wouldn't harm a fly.

Cerebral Bore posted:

Good to have GP here to remind us of the crimes that really matter: Bricking windows.

Darkest Auer posted:

What is the anarchist/antifa perspective here? "Mä haluun vetää kiljuu ja rikkoo ja hakata kaikki"?

Krabboss posted:

dude I've not been in the country that long and I've had many people tell me how awesome Australia's detention centres are. I've had people, unprompted, tell me how much they wish brown people would be refused entry into the country. They prefer normal people like me instead because I can integrate (I know 0 Finnish). I don't think I've seen an anti-Nazi sticker last longer than a day before it's slashed at. I know a meth head Soldier of Odin who participates in the dumbass street patrol poo poo. Anonymous social networks like jodel and whisper are full of whiny white supremacists.

I've even overheard dweeby, worthless Finnish dudes try to appeal to women by saying "Hey, at least I'm not one of those brown people." It doesn't work, because dweeby men are not particularly appealing, but they try.

Nazism is definitely a concern here and in most Western countries. It needs to be pushed back unless it spreads. It doesn't take much for a government to get reaaaally fascist and seriously harm minority groups. So yeah it sucks that one idiot broke some property somewhere, but using that to try and defend and normalise people who believe in ethnic cleansing is a pretty bad look.

Krabboss posted:

Just consider why you have way more outrage about a window being broken than you do for white nationalism. I mean, you just mocked people who are critical of white nationalism by reducing a violent ideology to "having the wrong opinions." Somehow you consider "occasionally beating up an anarchist" to be a lesser crime than a rock thrown through a window.

Yeah it sucks for an innocent person to have their stuff destroyed and everybody would agree with you on that. You are definitely acting in bad faith when you express outrage though, because it's purely a means to discredit any group of people who would oppose white nationalism. This is really apparent because you keep pointing out that the poor nazis just want to march innocently and also they "disavowed nazism", so they're actually really cool.

Rexroom posted:

I know you're drunk from all that itsenäisyys skumppa, but do try to not attack strawmen all night.

Krabboss posted:

"Sure, I believe in a white ethnostate and wish to forcibly remove minority groups from the country, but what about those other guys? A couple of them destroyed a window that one time."

Cerebral Bore posted:

Kemper Boyd posted:

Last years counterdemonstrations were all non-violent and without property damage.. Unless you count Laku beating up a Swedish nazi while being in police custody.

Who cares about property damage anyway. That's why insurance companies exist.

Trogdos! posted:

Nazis and communists, both equally extreme ideologies.

Krabboss posted:

Right, but why fret so much over the actions of these individuals so much? You keep comparing a handful of window smashers to the entirety of all white nationalists, which is strange. It kinda seems like you're trying to laser focus on a few people's actions at specific events, and then comparing them to the entirety of a white nationalists on aggregate to make them seem comparably sane. You also seem to be concerned about how these people will affect the image of all leftists, while acting as if you see them as separate entities, and without ever doing the same for violent extremists on the right.

And regardless of the law, it's debatable whether smashing a window is worse than expressing views in favour of white nationalism. White nationalism terrorises minorities with the threat of violence, so it isn't as simple as just calling it an innocent belief. It doesn't require individual action for it to have an effect.