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AceOfFlames posted:Interstellar is essentially the best case scenario I envision for mankind and that movie was like a horrific nightmare for me. Whenever I whine about not wanting to dig around in the dirt, that is what I see. The other things like "we don't need engineers, we need food", moon landing conspiracy bullshit being made official to discourage science and people dying because we don't have MRIs made me think "if this is what the future brings, then I hope humanity becomes extinct, since it would be preferable to this barbarism". Interstellar levels of decline in quality of life with climate change are both plausible and depressing but the other stuff you mention here has nothing to do with climate change. There is still going to be a demand for engineers of some description in the post-climate change world and it's not going to turn everyone into paranoid conspiracy theorists, even in the movie that made no sense (why would a government discourage people from an interest in space and science but continue to invest in a huge secret space program???) People are also dying due to lack of MRIs without climate change so 
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Nov 9, 2018 13:56
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In case you aren't aware, the content of textbooks is determined by state's education boards. It represented the logical continuation of the American tradition of anti-intellectualism, particularly in rural states, combined with the censoring of a scientific community that painted an increasingly bleaker picture of the future. The space program was conducted in secret precisely because there'd be no public support for it in the ruling sociopolitical climate.
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Nov 9, 2018 15:51
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I feel really unclear what the goon approved apocolypse fanfiction even is on this one. Pakistan is having a water crisis that is going to get way worse but like, is the idea they are going to nuke then occupy india? Are they going to get real poor then india is going to nuke them? Is the idea just they are both savage animal countries so if things go vaguely wrong they will just mash their face into the nuke buttons? Owl, I know you're being stupid on purpose because that's how you have fun, but the meaning of the post you quoted is that India and Pakistan should use their nuclear material in reactors to power desalination plants instead of making war, but they probably won't because of the pitfalls of human nature.
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Nov 9, 2018 16:02
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Conspiratiorist posted:Syria is already a Mad Max hellhole prompted (arguably, granted) by Climate Change. Your personal experience will depend strongly on your region and your own socioeconomic resilience. I vote "Don't think Mad Max, think Interstellar" as the new thread title.
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Nov 9, 2018 17:07
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Interesting update on the cost of renewable energy and storage according to Lazard. Also the title of this article made me laugh:PV magazine posted:Lazard, Lazard, LCOE – what’s the cheapest energy? The money plots: Storage  Energy  Historical energy cost comparison  It's interesting that solar continues to decrease in cost, ignoring the usual issues of intermittent generation and grid compatibility. Nuclear costs are going up? edit: News articles point out that this is the first time new solar generation capacity is competitive or cheaper than EXISTING coal production but there's no figure for existing natural gas for comparison. Nocturtle fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Nov 9, 2018 |
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Nov 9, 2018 20:08
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Nocturtle posted:
I'd believe it, especially if this analysis is focused on the US (isn't it?). The entire supply chain is kinda dog poo poo and poised to get worse. I'd like to see how China and India is doing with nuclear costs, since they are building it out, China especially, since they are going from 4% and shooting for 15-20% by 2030 or so with total capacity.
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Nov 9, 2018 20:27
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It's cool and normal to have entire towns destroyed by wildfires in northern California during mid November.
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Nov 9, 2018 20:50
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sitchensis posted:It's cool and normal to have entire towns destroyed by wildfires in northern California during mid November. I wonder how much CO2 those fires are releasing compared to the annual CO2 released by humans.
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Nov 9, 2018 22:31
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edit: Wrong thread!
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Nov 9, 2018 22:44
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sitchensis posted:It's cool and normal to have entire towns destroyed by wildfires in northern California during mid November. Serves them right for all those almonds. (I can say that because some of my best friends are burned-down towns in northern California.) quote:I wonder how much CO2 those fires are releasing compared to the annual CO2 released by humans. Five.
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Nov 9, 2018 22:58
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qkkl posted:I wonder how much CO2 those fires are releasing compared to the annual CO2 released by humans. quote:Methods for estimating wildfire emissions are an area of active research, but our best estimates of total emissions in 2013-2015 for GHGs from CA wildfires on federal lands alone have consistently amounted to around 20-25 Million Metric Tons of Carbon Dioxide Equivalent (MMTCO2e) each year. sitchensis posted:It's cool and normal to have entire towns destroyed by wildfires in northern California during mid November. "Science Daily posted:A warmer, drier climate is expected is increase the likelihood of larger-scale forest disturbances such as wildfires, insect outbreaks, disease and drought, according to a new study co-authored by a Portland State University professor. edit: On the subject of historical scale of wildfires, this mega-plot from this proceedings was interesting:  Comparing curves C, E and F suggests interesting times ahead for the west-coast. edit2: Yikes, just noticed the abrupt decline in west-coast population 350-450 years ago. Nocturtle fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Nov 9, 2018 |
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Nov 9, 2018 23:02
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So which is it, warmer air = drier air, or warmer air = able to hold more water = wetter air.
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Nov 9, 2018 23:33
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qkkl posted:So which is it, warmer air = drier air, or warmer air = able to hold more water = wetter air. Generally speaking this is dependent on other geographic factors, like proximity to a large body of water, whether the area is in the rain shadow of a mountain range, etc.
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Nov 9, 2018 23:42
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qkkl posted:So which is it, warmer air = drier air, or warmer air = able to hold more water = wetter air. Temperature and humidity are two separate things. Hot dry air is fire weather. Hot humid air is flood weather. I wonder if there's some sort of common factor here...
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Nov 9, 2018 23:51
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Notorious R.I.M. posted:Temperature and humidity are two separate things. I'm talking about the relationship between change in temperature and humidity. So for a given environment, what would be the effects on humidity if the temperature increases or decreases.
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Nov 9, 2018 23:55
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Notorious R.I.M. posted:Temperature and humidity are two separate things. Evangelical Disbelief.
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Nov 10, 2018 00:10
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qkkl posted:I'm talking about the relationship between change in temperature and humidity. So for a given environment, what would be the effects on humidity if the temperature increases or decreases. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=psychrometric+chart
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Nov 10, 2018 00:32
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The efficiency and success of the Italian aviators in Tripoli are noteworthy, but must not be overvalued. There were no opponents in the air.
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Nov 13, 2018 08:44
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Notorious R.I.M. posted:Temperature and humidity are two separate things. I knew it! loving air.
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Nov 13, 2018 19:56
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Co-extinctions annihilate planetary life during extreme environmental change Hot off the presses! quote:Climate change and human activity are dooming species at an unprecedented rate via a plethora of direct and indirect, often synergic, mechanisms. Among these, primary extinctions driven by environmental change could be just the tip of an enormous extinction iceberg. As our understanding of the importance of ecological interactions in shaping ecosystem identity advances, it is becoming clearer how the disappearance of consumers following the depletion of their resources — a process known as ‘co-extinction’ — is more likely the major driver of biodiversity loss.
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Nov 14, 2018 00:28
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 (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 14, 2018 02:19
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The Guardian coming close to saying what we're all aware of but not permitted to discuss: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/14/earth-death-spiral-radical-action-climate-breakdown quote:Two tasks need to be performed simultaneously: throwing ourselves at the possibility of averting collapse, as Extinction Rebellion is doing, slight though this possibility may appear; and preparing ourselves for the likely failure of these efforts, terrifying as this prospect is. Both tasks require a complete revision of our relationship with the living planet.
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Nov 14, 2018 16:37
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The International Energy Agency released it's annual World Energy Outlook report. Unfortunately the report itself is paywalled, but the New York Times has a summary as do other outlets. It hits a lot of familiar points, but has some interesting numbers regarding renwable usage in developing nations.NY Times posted:Clean Energy Is Surging, but Not Fast Enough to Solve Global Warming The very rapid decline in renewable prices provides some hope that the developing world can industrialize without carbonizing. This is especially true now that new solar is cheaper than coal (ignoring the whole intermittent production thing, note how the article casually mentions how electrical grids need extensive modification to accommodate large-scale renewable generation). India following the same emissions trajectory as China would make decarbonizing over the next 50 years impossible. However renewable generation is simply not matching surging energy demand, fueled in part by policies to electrify rural regions. The shortfall is made up by fossil fuels, and as the article points out once a coal power plant is built the investors have a significant interest ensuring it operates as long as its profitable. The IEA also has a site for the 2018 report, with some fun graphs:  Global emissions increasing until 2040 is squarely within the range for the more hellworld-style long-term outcomes.
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Nov 14, 2018 16:53
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Wakko posted:The Guardian coming close to saying what we're all aware of but not permitted to discuss: Derrick Jensen should be required reading for everyone who gives a poo poo about doing something, tbqh.
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Nov 14, 2018 17:29
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Oh hey, even T-Rex is aware of what's going on and is starting to panic!
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Nov 14, 2018 17:34
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What must it feel like to be a teen or in your early 20s right now? I imagine it must be infuriating, just incredibly maddening to watch your future burning up into ash. I'm in my early 30s and I just feel tired. I'm sad about it but the world sucks enough and I've seen it poo poo on people enough that I can't find it in myself to get truly, passionately furious. Just waiting for the end to come. But if I were young again I imagine I'd feel entirely different.
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Nov 14, 2018 17:36
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How are u posted:What must it feel like to be a teen or in your early 20s right now? I imagine it must be infuriating, just incredibly maddening to watch your future burning up into ash. I'm in my mid-30s and assuming you live in a place like the US or Canada or Western Europe you're probably going to live long enough to see your future turn to ash also.
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Nov 14, 2018 18:09
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How are u posted:What must it feel like to be a teen or in your early 20s right now? I imagine it must be infuriating, just incredibly maddening to watch your future burning up into ash. Early 30's isn't old, what the gently caress.
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Nov 14, 2018 18:12
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How are u posted:What must it feel like to be a teen or in your early 20s right now? I imagine it must be infuriating, just incredibly maddening to watch your future burning up into ash. Just listen to "We Didn't Start The Fire" and accept that every early-twenties group grew up with something horrifying they thought would end the world. Except our kids will actually be right.  quote:Early 30's isn't old, what the gently caress. This too, by the way. Go lift a weight or two and you'll be in the prime of your fash-smashin' years! 
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Nov 14, 2018 18:15
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Wakko posted:The Guardian coming close to saying what we're all aware of but not permitted to discuss: George Monbiot posted:I don’t believe such a collapse is yet inevitable, or that a commensurate response is either technically or economically impossible. When the US joined the second world war in 1941, it replaced a civilian economy with a military economy within months. As Jack Doyle records in his book Taken for a Ride, “In one year, General Motors developed, tooled and completely built from scratch 1,000 Avenger and 1,000 Wildcat aircraft … Barely a year after Pontiac received a navy contract to build anti-shipping missiles, the company began delivering the completed product to carrier squadrons around the world.” And this was before advanced information technology made everything faster. Regarding the IEA report, it's just amazing how out-of-touch the Paris Agreement goals were/are:  The left plot shows what politicians agreed to, the blue-line on the right plot shows what people actually looking at energy generation trends think is maybe potentially possible after significant reform (plot from here). The right-plot green line is what might be possible after unprecedented unicorn-chasing emissions reductions. Existing and current construction from energy generation alone already excludes the Paris Agreement 1.5C goal, unless people seriously believe Gt-scale negative emission capacity will be brought online between now and 2040.
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Nov 14, 2018 18:20
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Nocturtle posted:Complete catastrophe is still avoidable, but it cannot be done via capitalism as usual. Something like a WWII style command economy is required. Climate change mitigation is still technically a political problem rather than constrained by physical realities, but the political solution requires changing society's economic structure. Even if one country or two get all gung-ho about it, how do you get the rest of the world to follow suit? Even the threat of war wouldn't be enough, and if war does happen, how do you get all the economies running again after its end (if they manage to end it fast enough)? All the solutions seem to depend on somewhat healthy economies.
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Nov 14, 2018 18:25
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DrNutt posted:I'm in my mid-30s and assuming you live in a place like the US or Canada or Western Europe you're probably going to live long enough to see your future turn to ash also. I'm well aware of that! e: I'm trying to say that, not being a "youth" anymore, I'm a lot more inclined to feel resigned and sad instead of outraged. I imagine it must be unbearable to be a teen or early twenty-something and to have all of that passion and energy and zest for life and looking ahead to a long future that I had back then. How are u fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Nov 14, 2018 |
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Nov 14, 2018 18:39
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Nocturtle posted:The shortfall is made up by fossil fuels, and as the article points out once a coal power plant is built the investors have a significant interest ensuring it operates as long as its profitable. Natural gas plants are honestly a bigger problem since they're being sold as a lower emissions alternative to coal (which they are), but since they aren't zero emissions they're still part of the problem rather than the solution and we're continually bringing new plants online that will emit for decades and decades. Tearing down profitable, relatively new infrastructure is basically unprecedented on the scale that's needed. At least most people are willing to admit that coal is bad.
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Nov 14, 2018 18:44
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gmq posted:Even if one country or two get all gung-ho about it, how do you get the rest of the world to follow suit? Even the threat of war wouldn't be enough, and if war does happen, how do you get all the economies running again after its end (if they manage to end it fast enough)? All the solutions seem to depend on somewhat healthy economies. US/China/EU are pretty much the big three political blocs that need to change. Resource extraction nations like Saudia Arabia aren't going to be dictating much if nobody wants to buy oil for burning. The above three blocs can lean *hard* on Brazil and the DRC, if needed. How to get the top three to get moving in sync is the biggie.
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Nov 14, 2018 18:53
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hmm let me input this idea of slowly rising emissions until 2040 into this highly advanced climate simulation I have laying around hmm the output is just "lmao" I wonder what that means?
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Nov 14, 2018 18:56
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The Dipshit posted:US/China/EU are pretty much the big three political blocs that need to change. Resource extraction nations like Saudia Arabia aren't going to be dictating much if nobody wants to buy oil for burning. I think of those three China is the only one that actually has the political capability to mobilize quick enough to do something (but that doesn't mean they will). The USA has a climate change denier as president for two more years (if not 6). So... welp?
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Nov 14, 2018 19:04
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The hyper-wealthy have sealed themselves inside bubbles of opulence. Our system risks literal human extinction to preserve those bubbles. What a poo poo system.
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Nov 14, 2018 20:05
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Accretionist posted:The hyper-wealthy have sealed themselves inside bubbles of opulence. Our system risks literal human extinction to preserve those bubbles. We're not allowed to talk about the necessary solution.
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Nov 14, 2018 20:49
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gmq posted:I think of those three China is the only one that actually has the political capability to mobilize quick enough to do something (but that doesn't mean they will). The USA has a climate change denier as president for two more years (if not 6). Out of a dozen years. Yeah, we'll be cutting it more than a little close. On the positive side, maybe some CCS might make it out of the R&D pipeline into something usable for rapid deployment.
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Nov 14, 2018 20:56
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How are u posted:We're not allowed to talk about the necessary solution. Let's be honest, talking about the necessary solution puts you out of the running for ever putting it into action. You have that conversation, you are now on a list and you are going to have a bad time. People like me, who have been posting high and low for a solid decade about how we need to take immediate direct action against the ruling class? We're hosed, we are first against the wall when things start really falling apart and states go full authoritarian to maintain control. That is how it has always played out - the known dissidents die first. Our only hope is that a bunch of kids in diapers right now are smart enough to keep their mouths shut online for the next decade and put their phones in Faraday boxes when meeting up.
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Nov 14, 2018 20:56
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