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Hello, The general definition of a sandwich is "filling contained within two pieces of bread." THe parameters of a sandwich under this paradigm can thus be modified depending on how you define filling, bread. Many anglophones only see bread as leavened, cut as a slice from a loaf. There are many kinds of bread in the world. I will use a more inclusive definition of bread, including unleavened flatbreads or non-slice bread i.e. tortillas, injera, etc. This is important. It breaks the definition in many ways. For example, bagels are not leavened. But you can cut a bagel and make a bagel sandwich. This is acceptable. Many people say a burrito is not a sandwich. But if i were to make a long burrito with two tortillas, it is now a sandwich. This does not make sense. It is better to define a sandwich as "some filling contained within a bread envelope" and drop the necessity of two distinct pieces of bread, since all bread is itself cut from a singular loaf and the creation of slices is just a temporary condition of space and time. This expands the conceptual universe of sandwiches to be less eurocentric and racist. However, there is an additional exclusion that must be added to prevent a strange scenario. Because if we leave the definition of sandwich as "filling in bread", then we run into problem. Bear with me. Is a hamburger a sandwich? yes Is a hot dog a sandwich? yes Is a taco a sandwich? yes Is a burrito a sandwich? yes Is an open face sandwich a sandwich? no Is a blueberry muffin a sandwich? yes Open face sandwiches are a special case, as they predate the traditional sandwich and are common in scandinavia, being the preeminint sandwich type. But an open face sandwich is a sandwich only because of a cruel linguistic trick. If an open face sandwich is truly a sandwich, then we must also accept that french toast, pancakes, and the mighty pizza is also a sandwich. You may have caught the other error with your quick eye, that being when a muffin (bread matrix) contains some filling (berries, fruit) it then becomes a sandwich. Obviously this cannot be so, and we modify the definition of sandwich as: "when a filling is contained wholly or partially within a cooked bread product" Which would prevent pizza from being a sandwich, as well as a constellation of baked goods, as well as crepes, unless you fold the crepe and thusly transect the sandwich manifold. Thank you
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Nov 9, 2015 20:29
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Gravel Gravy posted:If a muffin is a sandwich then so too are mozzarella sticks, onion rings, and any other breaded foodstuff. The final definition of a sandwich I have concluded is that a muffin is not a sandwich, because the muffin is cooked with the filling. The bread and filling must be prepared seperately, and then constructed together. This means that a calzone or stromboli is also, not a sandwich. Condiv posted:all proper crepes and galettes are folded Yes. These are included int he new, more tolerant and wise, sandwich acceptance conditions. Perhaps we could tighten the definition by saying "...intended to be eaten with the hands, without use of implements" as a sanity check.
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Nov 9, 2015 20:37
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Gravel Gravy posted:If your reasoning was that haphazard in the first place why should we trust your definition now? I'm simply showing my work, friend. Much like a sandwich, you must develop these ideas one layer at a time.
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Nov 9, 2015 20:40
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Gravel Gravy posted:Would a folded open faced sandwich be a sandwich or does the bread need to be two pieces? An open faced sandwich is not a sandwich. It is referred to as a sandwich in english but this is due to a long historical/foodways connection which I Will Not explain at this time. They are a cousin to sandwich but not actually a sandwich. If a cut is thrust into bread and a filling(s) placed in the wound, then it is a sandwich. THis is why a hot dog is a sandwich.
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Nov 9, 2015 20:47
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pathetic little tramp posted:Who was the guy who was getting executed and they asked if he had any last words and he was like "Hot dog ain't no drat sandwich, turn on the gas." I'm glad they killed him. VVVV yes. good luck VVVV
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Nov 9, 2015 20:48
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:All of these sandwich definitions are moot unless officially approved by John Montagu, 4th Earl of Sandwich, who is dead. You are talking about the word, not the Item. Only a round man would point at the moon and look at his finger. I categorically reject all sandwich literalism. Gravel Gravy posted:A folded open faced sandwich becomes a sandwich much as a hot dog is a sandwich. Yes. If you change the form of the open faced sandwitch, it becomes, closed boner confessor fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Nov 9, 2015 |
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Nov 9, 2015 20:55
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Talmonis posted:Secondly, a sandwich can absolutely have more than two pieces of bread, such as in a Club Sandwich. Though that is then cut into quarters for geniality. Does that further become twelve pieces of bread, or just the three that were seperated from the motherloaf? A sandwich can have as many pieces of bread as is necessary. A sandwich must have at least one bread.
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Nov 9, 2015 20:56
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Gravel Gravy posted:So then an open faced sandwich is a sandwich. No. The bread must contain the filling, otherwise it is merely topping, and this introduces too many foul possibilities, such as pancakes and french toast being sandwiches.
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Nov 9, 2015 21:00
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Gravel Gravy posted:Wouldn't the filling depress the bread and therefor contain the filling? This is a good point, but No, the intention of the sandwich constructor was to not create a sandwich when you simply top bread. It is possible to break, tear, or cut, or fold or otherwise transform the bread to convert the topping itno filling, and the lack of action in failing to do so indicates that the creator has rejected the possibility. The mere works of nature on the bread does not then convert it into a sandwich, as i do not believe a sandwich can be created by the accidentall fall of food on the floor but rather would be a Mess.
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Nov 9, 2015 21:05
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Gravel Gravy posted:dealing with Lunchables. A sandwich kit. Rorus Raz posted:I like grilled cheese! Me too. 
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Nov 9, 2015 21:06
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Gravel Gravy posted:Would Ethiopian food, which is eaten by tearing off injera, or flatbread, and picking up food and wraping it with the bread be considered a sandwich? Yes, ad-hoc sandwich construction. Korean BBQ is similar and almost a social sandwich party except for the use of vegetable leaves instead of bread. Squalid posted:Take care, this stricture would exclude both the panini and the grilled cheese from the category of sandwhich No, paninis and grilled cheese are cooked to complete the construction of the sandwich but the bread is already cooked. A sandwich can be cooked but the bread must already be cooked at the time when the sandwich itself is assembled and heat applied. THis is why a crepe is a sandwich and a bagel is not.
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Nov 9, 2015 21:08
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Jack of Hearts posted:How is a taco, which you have classified as a sandwich in your OP, any different from a folded open-face sandwich? This is affirmative action, isn't it?! The open face sandwich is not traditionally folded. If you pick up an open face sandwich and fold it, for convenience, you have created a demi-closed face sandwich a.k.a. a taco.
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Nov 9, 2015 21:13
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S.T.C.A. posted:How is a crepe a sandwich but not pancakes with filling between two pancakes? (I.e. the pancakes are cooked normally then filling placed between them) You're right. That is a pancake sandwich. I think the additional consideration should be that if the assembly must be eaten with utensils then it cannot be a sandwich, as, technically, some casseroles could be sandwiches as well. Lasagna could also be a sandwich depending on the condition of the noodles.
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Nov 9, 2015 21:17
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Squalid posted:Ah, but by this logic bread pudding, which uses stale bread (hence already cooked) would qualify, provided it is of a type dry enough to eat with your hands. Applying heat to set the eggs is merely "completing the construction" Yes. Lasagna with big noodles and at least 51% of the filling enclosed (and not topping) eaten with the hands on the bare noodles would also be a sandwich. Sandwiches do not have to be tidy, but their convenience is what makes them sandwiches. Bread pudding would be a bad sandwich but, technically, a sandwich, if eaten in a messy way.
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Nov 9, 2015 21:27
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Aliquid posted:You're breaking your own rules. Lasagna has the bread cooked with the filling. Not always. The noodles can be precooked, and then just softened by the act of baking. There is a long and strange chain of causality in which a lasagna would become a sandwich but it can be done. THe invention of a sandwich is a very creative and human act, and that spark of genius can fall anywhere at any time.
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Nov 9, 2015 21:31
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Aliquid posted:This is bullshit, the bread is mixed in. If it were laid out in layers, yes, it would be a dessert sandwich. This is a good point. For a topping to become a filling, it must be contained within. A bread pudding is mixed with the sweet or savory portions, meaning that neither is really the topping or filling of the other, but they are both mixed into some bread-based matrix. I withdraw my previous agreement that bread pudding can be sandwich.
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Nov 9, 2015 21:32
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Squalid posted:This should allow us to replace the stricture that the sandwich not be cooked with the filling with a clearer ban on "mixes" or matrices. I think there is something key in the assembly process. It's not that a sandwich cannot be cooked. It's that the sandwich cannot be assembled with a dough, the bread must be bread before the sandwich is cooked. A pudding is excluded because the bread, though cooked, does not contain the filling, it is used to give structure to a foodstuff rather than being a distinct envelope.
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Nov 9, 2015 22:31
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Gravel Gravy posted:Wouldn't adopting the term sandwich blanket across cultures be in and of itself cultural appropriation? This is more of a problem with english than cultural appropriation. I am trying to de-exoticise pan-cultural sandwich types. The sandwich in english has two meanings, that of a particular form as well as a general class of bread/filling combinations. By pointing out that these other objects fit within the broader definition of sandwich, I am trying to flatten the term and create broader cultural dialog in foodways. Sharkie posted:For all your talk of constructing a less racist definition of sandwich, perhaps you should consider the inherent linguistic colonialism of enforcing your words and definitions upon food cultures that don't have them and don't need them. Not at all. By communicating to native english speakers that people all over the world enjoy sandwiches as a quick, easy to make and tasty food item, it lessens the distance between us. We do not need to call tacos sandwiches to make them palatable. We just need to understand them as a thing similar to a sandwich. Some americans still do not eat tacos because they are too exotic, although they are identical in many ways to a sandwich. boner confessor fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Nov 10, 2015 |
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Nov 10, 2015 03:42
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chaosbreather posted:As I said, there is a simple smell test that can be applied to any purported sandwich definition: if you order a sandwich, and you get a definition-compliant food item, do you feel you have got what you ordered? And that test belies an underlying truth that powers the System Sandwich Definition: "a sandwich" is the only way to order a system sandwich. If your definition includes, say, a taco and a burrito, how would you indicate that you want a system sandwich to a vendor that sells both? How would they label them? It's clear operationally, linguistically, historically and practically, my strict SSD is the one to beat. The difficulty is that in vernacular english, a sandwich is both a specific item and general classification of items. A hamburger is a sandwich, but does not spring to mind when thinking of the granular sandwich, which would be more of a tuna salad or ham and cheese sandwich. Ordering a single sandwich is thus meant to refer to the lowest level of the sandwich heirarchy, as there are many terms and qualifiers which would specify the exact sort of sandwich. This is because people rarely have need to refer to the class Sandwichae in daily conversation, though the overall meaning can shift in the proper context. ComradeCosmobot posted:But the dictionary definition is supported by more than Webster's; as noted in the afore-linked blog post, the USDA's Food Standards and Labeling Policy Book explicitly defines a burrito in part as "a sandwich-like product", thus placing it in the set of things that are almost, but ultimately not, sandwiches. "Sandwich-like product" is clearly softpedaling meant to not upset the delicate midwestern sensibilites. If a gyro is a sandwich and a burrito is not, I fail to see how this definition can hold up to scrutiny, given that the only structural difference between them is the method of fold. I reject all traditionalist, outmoded interpretetations of a sandwich based in political correctness. Sandwiches are to be defined by taxonomic attributes and not by the decrees of the legal establishment, though they do have reasons to create a taxable definition of a sandwich.
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Nov 10, 2015 05:34
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Sharkie posted:Is a club sandwich, because it itself is a sandwich, while containing two other sandwiches (the middle bread pulling double duty as top and bottom, a versatile slice, that one) therefore three sandwiches? Does this make ordering a single club sandwich impossible, as one contains three, yet if you order three club sandwiches you get nine? It is only one sandwich. It cannot be more than one sandwich, but it has the unique property that, if divided correctly, one sandwich can bifurcate into multiple sandwiches. This is because the bread slice is not a hard limiter of the boundaries of the sandwich, but an internal slice can be a filling itself. This means that it is possible to consruct a bread sandwich from three slices of bread, whereas two slices of bread, stacked, without filling, is not a sandwich, unless you fold one piece of bread around the other to create a bread sandwich. GhostofJohnMuir posted:What's the difference between a hamburger and a meatloaf sandwich? Very little. Only the filling - meatloaf is a slice from a cooked log, whereas patties are usually formed into an individual and then cooked. There is also some context around sauce, topping, consumption patterns, etc. spoon0042 posted:What if you take two open face sandwiches and stack them, both face up? That would be a sandwich. A sandwich can have toppings, though this violates the utility of the sandwich to eat tidily without utensils. It Can be done, though. Likewise toast is not a sandwich, but two toasts stacked would be a toast sandwich. Or if you folded or broke a toast onto itself, it would be a sandwich.
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Nov 10, 2015 18:11
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ZorajitZorajit posted:Like hotdogs, a split bun, roll, or bread that has been filled with foodstuffs qualifies as a sandwich. Lobster rolls also qualify as delicious. If the biscuit is just topped then it is not a sandwich. If you put the butter and jelly inside of the biscuit somehow, then it serves as a breakfast sandwich.
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Nov 10, 2015 20:13
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