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I consider myself a hardcore liberal but lately I've been reading some of the tumblr threads and following the social issues discussions and movements on Youtube and the rest of the internet and this SJW stuff seems utterly insane to me. And it's got me wondering if this is just a brief flash in the cultural pan or if this is what next generation social issues are going to be? It seems easy to write off, and I had previously assumed it was just another freakish internet movement, but then I read the thread about states passing these yes means yes laws and smugly thought it was more typical sexual hysteria and moral panic from some conservative poo poo hole like Florida before my jaw hit the floor when I got to the part of the article that said it's all being pushed by people who call themselves liberals. So I wonder if is this tumblr ideology of sexual paranoia and hysterical hypersensitivity is the foundation for the new liberalism or new progressiveism? Will people be to be calling us old fashioned ignorant bigots in 20 years because we think notarized sexual consent contracts are retarded? I mean, roughly, our generation has always lambasted previous ones for their blatant and overt racism, sexism, and homophobia, and various other forms of prejudice. And previous generations always replied by saying we were being too sensitive. But it wasn't only that. They just couldn't seem to wrap their head around the progressive changes that were being pushed. It was like gay marriage came completely out of left field for some people. Like it was completely outside the cultural framework through which they viewed the world. It seems ridiculous to think about now, but once upon a time pretty much everyone really and truly believed that women shouldn't have the right to vote. It made perfect sense to them. In hindsight we often view these people almost as caricatures, like their opinions could be easily dismissed as laughably ignorant lunacy. But they were real people, they weren't morons anymore than you or me, they were products of their times; their beliefs a reflection of their culture. We also focus on seeing them as an increasingly shrinking segment of the population, but if you go back far enough pretty much everyone felt this way. The same for probably every other big social milestone. So what does that say about us and our future? We'd be idiots to think that here, now, in 21st century North America we've finally reached a point where no one will ever look back and call us cavemen. And while I don't think anyone believes we "have it all figured out", I also don't think people have really internalized this fact. It's easy to fall into the trap of viewing being called a caveman by future generations in an abstract, humorous way. Our generation has often wondered what big social changes in the future we'll be faced with being out of touch with. We've always joked that we would have to get over our own bigotry about our daughters wanting to marry an alien or something cheesy like that. And that's what it's always been; a joke. Because being so comfortable with our own generations progressive ideals makes us make the subtle mistake of assuming that we'll be comfortable with the future generations progressive ideals. That we won't fight viciously and violently against them like every other generation that came before ours. But obviously real life isn't like that. Whatever is coming it's not going to be as simple or humorous as legalizing Robot/Human marriage. I don't think it's something we can even really conceptualize. Based on history, the only thing can really be sure of is that we'll be almost completely blindsided by it and left being the new "bigots", even though we will completely reject this view. It's also easy to assume that when the changes do come that, in our enlightenment, we'll be one of the first ones to convert, and get on board. But that's not really realistic either, and is all but useless when speaking about how social change is responded to in generational terms. I don't want to make this just a "is SJW/tumblrism the future of social issues" thread. That was just the impetus for the post. I'm interested in what people think the future of social issues will look like as whole? EDIT: Removed a distracting SJW/Tumbl paragraph. 
-Blackadder- fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Nov 9, 2015 |
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Nov 9, 2015 22:43
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If you're genuinely concerned about this issue then my first suggestion would be that you get some actual data (i.e. you claim tumlerite ideology has a lot of support on campuses -- well what's your evidence? are you sure it isn't an over hyped minority?) and maybe find some good representative examples of tumblrina ideology being implemented in the real world. It's hard to have much of a discussion when all we're going on are vague impressions.
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Nov 9, 2015 22:54
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You may be conflating what people on tumblr worry about with what young people in campuses worry about. There is a lot of overlap, but some of the tumblr stuff is really esoteric and I don't think campuses across the nation are home to groups that worry about someone who shares headspace with an elf being respected for such a thing. Tumblr just amplifies a lot of concerns; I doubt it is a serious part of any grassroots social justice movement.
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Nov 9, 2015 23:05
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You're being bamboozled by people who are losing privilege/influence (young white men) taking a tiny internet subculture and projecting it to the left as a whole, hth.
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Nov 9, 2015 23:14
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Yeah, like I said I really didn't want to make this about SJW/Tumbrism and I wasn't trying to suggest that it's going to take of over the wold like some conservative worrying about sharia law taking over America. It was just that that level of extremism coming from people who claimed the same political ideology as me was got me wondering about what social issues would look like in the future. Like, what issues will I be faced with being on the wrong side of?Judakel posted:You may be conflating what people on tumblr worry about with what young people in campuses worry about. There is a lot of overlap, but some of the tumblr stuff is really esoteric and I don't think campuses across the nation are home to groups that worry about someone who shares headspace with an elf being respected for such a thing. Tumblr just amplifies a lot of concerns; I doubt it is a serious part of any grassroots social justice movement. Yeah, I think you're right. I removed one of the SJW/tumblr paragraphs to make it more coherent. Thanks. Radbot posted:You're being bamboozled by people who are losing privilege/influence (young white men) taking a tiny internet subculture and projecting it to the left as a whole, hth. I'm black so I'm not all that worried about what "young white men" think, which is not to say that I'm going to disregard someones opinions due to their race, gender, or age, but I don't see how me thinking, for example, yes means yes or microaggressions are stupid means I'm being fooled by white people. -Blackadder- fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Nov 9, 2015 |
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Nov 9, 2015 23:15
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-Blackadder- posted:It was just that that level of extremism coming from people who claimed the same political ideology as me was got me wondering about what social issues would look like in the future. Let's stop there and ask you the same question again - why do you think this is indicative of a rising tide of "tumblrism" instead of you just personally hearing about it more (invariably from people criticizing "PC culture")?
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Nov 9, 2015 23:17
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If we're at a point where elf headmates and cat-kin are actual social issues, we'll be in such a magnificent enlightened paradise that it'll be quaint to think that race and sexuality used to be issues.
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Nov 9, 2015 23:28
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Helsing posted:If you're genuinely concerned about this issue then my first suggestion would be that you get some actual data (i.e. you claim tumlerite ideology has a lot of support on campuses -- well what's your evidence? are you sure it isn't an over hyped minority?) and maybe find some good representative examples of tumblrina ideology being implemented in the real world. It's hard to have much of a discussion when all we're going on are vague impressions. How would it be anything but vague impressions? He's talking about cultural changes that haven't happened yet, not railing against the SJW threat. This is like asking for evidence of same-sex marriage being implemented in the real world sometime in the 1970's. There won't be much to cite, and most of it will only appear significant in retrospect- a case like Baker v. Nelson looks somewhat prescient now, but there was at least a two decade-long period where it was indistinguishable from the usual background noise of unsuccessful legal and legislative novelties. And personally I don't think this is something that we're going to be successful predicting. Even if the next social issue will seem to have been staring us in the face, it's entirely likely there is a bunch of associated cultural baggage that prevents us from seeing it clearly (i.e. the sexual revolution in the 1960s vs. all of the unsuccessful crackpot poo poo associated with the hippies). Also, while its tempting to think of history as being on a long upward trend it's at the very least not a particularly smooth one- there have been all sorts of social movements and 'refinements' of public moral outlook that have worked out poorly and been phased out or reversed (civilizing missions, Victorian sexual morality, prohibition, etc.). We may be condemned to be viewed as barbaric reactionaries by the next generation regardless, but that doesn't necessarily mean we were wrong (or more wrong anyhow). LGD fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Nov 9, 2015 |
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Nov 9, 2015 23:41
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Radbot posted:Let's stop there and ask you the same question again - why do you think this is indicative of a rising tide of "tumblrism" instead of you just personally hearing about it more (invariably from people criticizing "PC culture")? I don't necessarily think that it has to be. I asked if it could be more than a flash in the pan. It was the idea of it that prompted me wonder what future social issues would look like. To try to imagine something that would be a cultural blindside in the same way past social issues, which now seem obvious to us in our modern culture, did to past generations. Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:If we're at a point where elf headmates and cat-kin are actual social issues, we'll be in such a magnificent enlightened paradise that it'll be quaint to think that race and sexuality used to be issues. That's what so fascinating to me though. Because we always think of the future as being inherently progressive but thinking of social change in linear terms of "progress" and "regress" is too simplistic. Is every social change that comes a long a good one? Obviously not. So how do we determine which is better or worse? How do we know whether or not something is actually bad or if we've just become out of touch with society, essentially the new conservative? That's what got me thinking about it, because no one ever thinks they're wrong about these types of opinions. Sure we admit an ignorance about factual knowledge, and our opinions evolve over time, but when it comes to social issues everyone has their little comfort zone that they think is the correct one. -Blackadder- fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Nov 9, 2015 |
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Nov 9, 2015 23:43
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-I'll be God DAMNED if I let any daughter of mine marry an alien. -I'll be God DAMNED if I let any daughter of mine marry a robot. -I'll be God DAMNED if I let any daughter of mine marry an AI. -I'll be God DAMNED if I let any daughter of mine marry a free floating transcended energy being. Love, the next ten thousand years Seriously though I totally buy the argument about moral hindsight and how we're surely not at the end of that road yet. My somewhat optimistic and hopeful guess is that one of the next things that will be considered barbaric in hindsight is our current disregard for the consequences of our actions as it relates to the environment. Seaquest is kind of about this, if you've ever seen any of that awful show.
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Nov 10, 2015 00:02
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LGD posted:How would it be anything but vague impressions? He's talking about cultural changes that haven't happened yet, not railing against the SJW threat. This is like asking for evidence of same-sex marriage being implemented in the real world sometime in the 1970's. There won't be much to cite, and most of it will only appear significant in retrospect- a case like Baker v. Nelson looks somewhat prescient now, but there was at least a two decade-long period where it was indistinguishable from the usual background noise of unsuccessful legal and legislative novelties. Great points. Especially about our inability to predicate upcoming social issues. I think that's inherently part of it, that we just never really saw them coming, at least not in the way that they did. They were, to a degree, always there, waiting to be addressed but they were so culturally unobtrusive that it was like how our brains only process a few small parts of the whole of what we see into our conscious minds; we weren't focused on them so we didn't see them coming until they did. I agree with your points about Whig History and how we may be viewed by future generations. I can't quite remember if we applied Ethnocentrism/Cultural Relativism in temporal way when we covered it in my socio-cultural anthro class back in the day but it seems like a good argument could be made for it. Nathilus posted:-I'll be God DAMNED if I let any daughter of mine marry an alien. Haha, that was the other comic I was going to put in the OP, but I couldn't find it. -Blackadder- fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Nov 10, 2015 |
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Nov 10, 2015 00:14
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Nathilus posted:-I'll be God DAMNED if I let any daughter of mine marry an alien. See i am actually curious what would happen if a fully sentient AI was created(purpously or more likely accidentally) or maybe the world becomes more like deus ex and we have mechanical/cerebral augmentations. what would we count as human? what would we count as living. that and aliens.
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Nov 10, 2015 00:15
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LGD posted:How would it be anything but vague impressions? He's talking about cultural changes that haven't happened yet, not railing against the SJW threat. This is like asking for evidence of same-sex marriage being implemented in the real world sometime in the 1970's. There won't be much to cite, and most of it will only appear significant in retrospect- a case like Baker v. Nelson looks somewhat prescient now, but there was at least a two decade-long period where it was indistinguishable from the usual background noise of unsuccessful legal and legislative novelties. If you come across a social movement and it prompts you to ask if "this is what next generation social issues are going to be?" then the logic next step is to research that movement. The OP is now de-emphasizing his original focus on SJWs and while that might help avoid some pointless arguments it also kind of drains the thread of any relevance because now we really are just left with empty speculation. I think the real value of futurology is that it lets us reexamine the present through a different lens, and perhaps causes us to ask different questions than we would otherwise.
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Nov 10, 2015 00:25
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In the future, we will all be viewed as super racist, but we'll also be old and won't care anymore
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Nov 10, 2015 00:30
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Helsing posted:If you come across a social movement and it prompts you to ask if "this is what next generation social issues are going to be?" then the logic next step is to research that movement. The OP is now de-emphasizing his original focus on SJWs and while that might help avoid some pointless arguments it also kind of drains the thread of any relevance because now we really are just left with empty speculation. Honestly, it was never my intention to focus on SJW/Tumbr's, so it's unfortunate if my initial draft came off that way. SJW/Tumblrism was/is part of it, certainly, and I hope people do discuss that in this thread as well, but they were not meant to be the central theme of the post, they were something that got me thinking about what kind of social issues could I encounter in the future, in particular, social issues that I would be on the other or "non-progressive" side off. Hence the title: the future of social issues. Regardless, feel free to discuss SJW/Tumbrs as they relate to future social issues also, especially if you feel the thread is irrelevant without it.
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Nov 10, 2015 00:45
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-Blackadder- posted:Haha, that was the other comic I was going to put in the OP, but I couldn't find it. I couldn't find it either. :/
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Nov 10, 2015 00:57
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-Blackadder- posted:I consider myself a hardcore liberal but lately I've been reading some of the tumblr threads and following the social issues discussions and movements on Youtube and the rest of the internet and this SJW stuff seems utterly insane to me. And it's got me wondering if this is just a brief flash in the cultural pan or if this is what next generation social issues are going to be? It seems easy to write off, and I had previously assumed it was just another freakish internet movement, but then I read the thread about states passing these yes means yes laws and smugly thought it was more typical sexual hysteria and moral panic from some conservative poo poo hole like Florida before my jaw hit the floor when I got to the part of the article that said it's all being pushed by people who call themselves liberals. So I wonder if is this tumblr ideology of sexual paranoia and hysterical hypersensitivity is the foundation for the new liberalism or new progressiveism? Will people be to be calling us old fashioned ignorant bigots in 20 years because we think notarized sexual consent contracts are retarded? Wait, are you complaining about various state governments and college campuses taking the issue of consent seriously, and taking steps to make sure that people are informed about what consent is and how to protect themselves in their sexual lives? I just want to make sure we're on the same page here, because I don't think I've ever heard anyone who is ostensibly liberal describe such policies as "sexual hysteria".
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Nov 10, 2015 00:58
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Rights for transgender people is probably going to keep being a struggle in the US for the next several years - maybe decades. Also gay rights will continue to be a thing since we aren't there yet.Helsing posted:If you come across a social movement and it prompts you to ask if "this is what next generation social issues are going to be?" then the logic next step is to research that movement. The OP is now de-emphasizing his original focus on SJWs and while that might help avoid some pointless arguments it also kind of drains the thread of any relevance because now we really are just left with empty speculation. This is a good idea. Is there some nascent social movement you feel opposed to, or is this just speculation? Oops, you may have already answered this: Rap Record Hoarder posted:Wait, are you complaining about various state governments and college campuses taking the issue of consent seriously, and taking steps to make sure that people are informed about what consent is and how to protect themselves in their sexual lives?
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Nov 10, 2015 01:00
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Rap Record Hoarder posted:Wait, are you complaining about various state governments and college campuses taking the issue of consent seriously, and taking steps to make sure that people are informed about what consent is and how to protect themselves in their sexual lives? How much attention have you actually been paying to such issues? Because there actually is quite a bit of salient criticism of current trends in campus policies relating to sexual assault originating from liberals (if not "progressives"). Paternalistic affirmative consent policies and school-run quasi-judicial investigations are hardly uncontroversial, and the intense focus on a sub-population that (when adjusted for demographics) is statistically less at risk of sexual assault than the population at large does give things a whiff of moral panic.
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Nov 10, 2015 01:26
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Rap Record Hoarder posted:Wait, are you complaining about various state governments and college campuses taking the issue of consent seriously, and taking steps to make sure that people are informed about what consent is and how to protect themselves in their sexual lives? Haha, no, amazingly enough I actually support teaching young people about "taking consent seriously" and making sure "people are informed about what consent is and how to protect themselves in their sexual lives". On that particular point I was referring to, among other things, this.. Which I definitely think is ridiculous and hysterical. But that was just one example of something that I came across that got me thinking about where social issues were headed, like for a related example, if one day this will no longer be a joke. The broader topic I was trying to address though, is what I mentioned before and what LGD alluded to, which was trying to conceptualize realistic future social issues, namely, ones that we would be on the conservative side of, because on a long enough time line we all eventually become out of touch with mainstream society. Everybody has a personal line they won't cross and the nature of society and social change dictates that they will one day be asked to cross it. EDIT: drat, and yeah, what LGD said, put it better than I did. -Blackadder- fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Nov 10, 2015 |
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Nov 10, 2015 01:30
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Nathilus posted:-I'll be God DAMNED if I let any daughter of mine marry a robot. Turn this around to men marrying robots and it'll be acceptable, because what men wanted this whole time was an obedient sex object.
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Nov 10, 2015 01:31
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Here it is:
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Nov 10, 2015 02:04
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Cicero posted:Here it is: Yesssss! Thank You!
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Nov 10, 2015 02:07
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I think the next thing (or one of the next things) may be genetic body mods. "No daughter o' mine is givin' herself a cat's tail 'n ears! I don't care what no Koreans do!!" edit: although I guess that's more analogous to tattoos than gender/race/sexual orientation discrimination.
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Nov 10, 2015 02:14
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Cicero posted:I think the next thing (or one of the next things) may be genetic body mods. "No daughter o' mine is givin' herself a cat's tail 'n ears! I don't care what no Koreans do!!" Well in the case of transgenetic modification you're arguably talking about becoming less human at a genetic level, which isn't really the case with cosmetic alterations like tattoos. I'm gonna laugh pretty hard if Eripsa was actually semi-right about something and cyborg rights become a thing. Before I'm killed in the Great Purge I mean.
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Nov 10, 2015 02:26
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What specifically do you mean when you're talking about "SJWs" and "tumblrism"? Because while there are some fairly extreme ideologies out there, there are also a lot of MRAs, racists, right-wingers, and other awful people who use "SJW" to refer to extremist views like "don't rape women" and "maybe trans people should be respected rather than ostracized". Because of that, I find "SJW" to be a totally useless term - depending on the views of the person using it, it can mean anything from being a crazy person campaigning for otherkin rights to being a normal person who actually respects their fellow human. It's therefore pointless to discuss "SJW/tumblrism" in general; specifics are critical. Incidentally, "liberal" has been diluted in a similar way, though not quite anywhere near to the same extent. Just because two people both call themselves liberal doesn't mean they have similar views.
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Nov 10, 2015 03:18
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Main Paineframe posted:What specifically do you mean when you're talking about "SJWs" and "tumblrism"? Because while there are some fairly extreme ideologies out there, there are also a lot of MRAs, racists, right-wingers, and other awful people who use "SJW" to refer to extremist views like "don't rape women" and "maybe trans people should be respected rather than ostracized". Because of that, I find "SJW" to be a totally useless term - depending on the views of the person using it, it can mean anything from being a crazy person campaigning for otherkin rights to being a normal person who actually respects their fellow human. It's therefore pointless to discuss "SJW/tumblrism" in general; specifics are critical. Basically anything from what I linked in my previous post, what LGD mentioned regarding campus sexual assault issues, and the run of the mill tumblr headmate stuff. Obviously not every person who identifies as an SJW or posts on tumblr agrees with each other. And I'm obviously not trying to generalize and say that everyone who posts on tumblr has an elf headmate.I'd say I'm more of a left wing Bernie Sanders style liberal, than a third way democrat as far as that goes. Of course as you say that's really the problem with labels, they're all pretty diluted to some extent. One person labels themselves X and has Y opinions, another person labels themselves X and has Z opinions which don't mesh with Y opinions. So who's really an X? I'm anti-death penalty and think my position is a liberal one. Does that mean that someone who is pro-death penalty isn't a liberal? And once you start arguing about who is and isn't an SJW or a liberal or a conservative or whatever else, you run into No True Scottsman. But if there's no consistency of opinion across the labels people claim for themselves then what's the point of having labels to begin with? They just cloud debate. In fact I think a lot of debate and assumptions people have about any side are often based on cherry picked opinions. A conservative hears about a liberal saying or doing something bad and generalizes that across all liberals. And of course we do the same to them. I've known a few conservatives in my time but I have yet to meet one that thinks "don't rape women" is an extremist view(their views on transgender rights are another story, as we saw most recently with prop 1), and while I'm sure there are some out there, I don't think they represent the majority, yet it's easy for us to sling those obviously straw men at them, the same way they think we dance a jig every time someone has an abortion. So I obviously wasn't trying to generalize SJW's, people who post on tumblr, etc, I was referring specifically to the type of people who support the aforementioned points. I think the most interesting part is that we still search and probe for the "right way", for the specific labels so that we can categorize everyone into us vs them, liberal vs conservative, Democrat vs Republican, Atheist vs Theist, Feminist vs MRA, We still try to define it all into good and bad: Are you talking about the smart people or the dumb ones? Cuz you got these people here who are "normal" and these people over here who are "nuts." But who is normal and who is nuts is constantly shifting. Once upon a time people who thought women shouldn't vote were normal and people who thought they should were nuts. Now it's different. Later something we all smugly think everyone else is crazy for believing is going to become the new normal.. -Blackadder- fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Nov 10, 2015 |
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Nov 10, 2015 04:14
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-Blackadder- posted:So I obviously wasn't trying to generalize SJW's, people who post on tumblr, etc, I was referring specifically to the type of people who support the aforementioned points. This is kind of incoherent, or at least so broad as to be useless. It's like saying you define leftists as "people like the Animal Liberation Front, and people that support increased healthcare access," then when called on it saying you weren't trying to generalize, just referring specifically to the type of people who support the aforementioned points (animal liberation and healthcare). What on earth do people with drat elf headmates and people trying to prevent campus sexual assault have to do with each other except people tying the latter to the former in an attempt to discredit them?
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Nov 10, 2015 04:35
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I think we should continue gaslighting the OP and pretending like we have no idea what he's talking about. Because these people are on my team so all the stupid poo poo they do is forgivable or part of a conspiratorial misinformation campaign. Also remember that MRA fedorabros exist and are bad too. I only brought that up so I can accuse you of supporting them when you disagree with me. Bro Dad fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Nov 10, 2015 |
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Nov 10, 2015 04:42
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-Blackadder- posted:Great points. Especially about our inability to predicate upcoming social issues. I think that's inherently part of it, that we just never really saw them coming, at least not in the way that they did. They were, to a degree, always there, waiting to be addressed but they were so culturally unobtrusive that it was like how our brains only process a few small parts of the whole of what we see into our conscious minds; we weren't focused on them so we didn't see them coming until they did. It's here:  One thing to note: in all of these cases, men still seem to think they get to dictate with whom their daughters marry. E: fb, but maybe my commentary is still useful? 
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Nov 10, 2015 05:00
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Sharkie posted:This is kind of incoherent, or at least so broad as to be useless. It's like saying you define leftists as "people like the Animal Liberation Front, and people that support increased healthcare access," then when called on it saying you weren't trying to generalize, just referring specifically to the type of people who support the aforementioned points (animal liberation and healthcare). What on earth do people with drat elf headmates and people trying to prevent campus sexual assault have to do with each other except people tying the latter to the former in an attempt to discredit them? You know, I never actually mentioned elf head mates or otherkin rights supporters in the OP, someone else mentioned them as being associated with tumblr and examples of tumblr extremist views. Which I was fine with because I was just trying to get people to think about social issues that they could imagine being on the conservative side of in the future. Bro Dad posted:I think we should continue gaslighting the OP and pretending like we have no idea what he's talking about. Because these people are on my team so all the stupid poo poo they do is forgivable or part of a conspiratorial misinformation campaign. Oh poo poo, is that's what's been happening? I've been wondering why it felt like a few posters were intentionally missing my point, but maybe I could've been clearer in the OP. Absurd Alhazred posted:
Actually, I hadn't even noticed that, so I guess it was! -Blackadder- fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Nov 10, 2015 |
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Nov 10, 2015 05:05
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Absurd Alhazred posted:One thing to note: in all of these cases, men still seem to think they get to dictate with whom their daughters marry. Look at you, imposing your human binary sexes on Sentient Plasmoids, robots, and conscious spacetime anomalies. I guess now we know who the real patriarchist is.
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Nov 10, 2015 05:11
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I don't think there are more extreme perspectives than the most extreme perspective there is now.
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Nov 10, 2015 05:17
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Tiberius Thyben posted:Look at you, imposing your human binary sexes on Sentient Plasmoids, robots, and conscious spacetime anomalies. I guess now we know who the real patriarchist is. Ya got me. I am the patriarchest.
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Nov 10, 2015 05:21
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-Blackadder- posted:You know, I never actually mentioned elf head mates or otherkin rights supporters in the OP, someone else mentioned them as being associated with tumblr and examples of tumblr extremist views. Which I was fine with because I was just trying to get people to think about social issues that they could imagine being on the conservative side of in the future.
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Nov 10, 2015 05:21
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Lightanchor posted:I don't think there are more extreme perspectives than the most extreme perspective there is now. I don't know. That seems really unlikely to me, especially when you consider how technology is going to change things in the future. I mean, we have views on things that haven't been invented yet, but they are semi-serious, Robot/Human marriage for example, is just a joke, it's not real enough to have been put to the test. Additionally we can't conceptualize every advancement that will take place in the future, certainly not the nuances of those advancements or how we will react to them once they are actually in place. Terrorist Fistbump posted:I think the problem was that you weren't clear what current social issues you felt on the conservative side of right now. Being vague in DnD is like accidentally chumming in shark-filled waters while you're going for a swim. Haha, apparently so! But I thought I outlined pretty clearly at least my stance on the aforementioned yes means yes laws being passed, since I specifically mention them as an example of what prompted this line of thought in my first paragraph, in the OP. And LGD seemed to pick up exactly what I was referring to in his post here, where he stated the problems better than I did. I do feel like I struck some unintentional nerves and sent things off on a tangent of defensiveness by using the terms "SJW" and "tumblr", though. -Blackadder- fucked around with this message at 05:35 on Nov 10, 2015 |
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Nov 10, 2015 05:26
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-Blackadder- posted:You know, I never actually mentioned elf head mates or otherkin rights supporters in the OP, someone else mentioned them as being associated with tumblr and examples of tumblr extremist views. Which I was fine with because I was just trying to get people to think about social issues that they could imagine being on the conservative side of in the future. Somebody asked you what you meant: Main Paineframe posted:What specifically do you mean when you're talking about "SJWs" and "tumblrism"? Because while there are some fairly extreme ideologies out there, there are also a lot of MRAs, racists, right-wingers, and other awful people who use "SJW" to refer to extremist views like "don't rape women" and "maybe trans people should be respected rather than ostracized". Because of that, I find "SJW" to be a totally useless term - depending on the views of the person using it, it can mean anything from being a crazy person campaigning for otherkin rights to being a normal person who actually respects their fellow human. It's therefore pointless to discuss "SJW/tumblrism" in general; specifics are critical. And you responded with: -Blackadder- posted:Basically anything from what I linked in my previous post, what LGD mentioned regarding campus sexual assault issues, and the run of the mill tumblr headmate stuff. Obviously not every person who identifies as an SJW or posts on tumblr agrees with each other. So I reiterate that your definition of "SJW," the one that yes, you left undefined in the OP but then went on to define as including headmates and people addressing sexual assault, is vague and useless. And I again ask you what one has to do with the other.
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Nov 10, 2015 05:30
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Sharkie posted:So I reiterate that your definition of "SJW," the one that yes, you left undefined in the OP but then went on to define as including headmates and people addressing sexual assault, is vague and useless. And I again ask you what one has to do with the other. They're both things that one could come down on the conservative side on. And since it apparently still needs clarification, I didn't define SJW's as "people addressing sexual assault." I'm quite sure I was clear about that. Reread the first paragraph of the OP again if you need to, then read my reply to Rat Record Hoarder for further clarification. EDIT: Come on, I don't have all day. -Blackadder- fucked around with this message at 05:52 on Nov 10, 2015 |
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Nov 10, 2015 05:44
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Be a cool old person not a cranky old fart.
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Nov 10, 2015 05:56
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-Blackadder- posted:They're both things that one could come down on the conservative side on. People can come down on the conservative side about anything. Again, that's so broad it's practically meaningless, and given that people can come down on the conservative side about anything, why link those two specific things together? Are you trying to say that they are both things you come down on the conservative side on? And here's your reply to RRH: -Blackadder- posted:Haha, no, amazingly enough I actually support teaching young people about "taking consent seriously" and making sure "people are informed about what consent is and how to protect themselves in their sexual lives". This is the article about sexual assault and consent you're calling "ridiculous and hysterical." Or so I assume, since you linked an entire thread, but this is the article the thread's about. It might be useful if you pointed out what exactly is ridiculous and hysterical about it, since it covers many different events and topics related to consent. Or maybe you could scrap this thread and start a new one about how people are addressing sexual assault in the wrong way, and another new one about marrying robots or whatever, because I'm not sure that "boy SJWs sure are hysterical about sexual assault, anyways what does the future hold" really works as a thread if you don't want people to address the first part.
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Nov 10, 2015 06:01
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