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Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Hey so I clicked on this thread out of curiosity, went and started Lies Sisters And Wives assuming this was a hate-thread, but then absolutely fell in love with everything about this dude's work (I've now finished Lies and read Hitmen through the end of the living portals fiasco). It's the perfect marriage of dubious writing quality, actually genius writing, and way too much dialogue. It's literally mspa but better.

I know this isn't strictly relevant to the Trixie thread, but I just wanted to pop in to say thanks for introducing me to this wonderfully bizarre creator. Once I'm done binging all his stuff, I look forward to following Trixie with y'all.

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Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Fumaofthelake posted:

Hey get back to work steak

You can’t escape the neet thread, we’re always watching

surprised_pikachu.jpg

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Dinosaurs! posted:

Nice to see Thorsby’s ensnared another one. Of the unfortunately few people I’ve convinced to check out his comics, I’ve actually recommended against Liars, Sisters and Wives first since I think he absolutely killed it in Hitmen (granted you have to read hundreds of pages to get there).

I think Lies was great to start with because I already knew his other stories were insane fantasy epics, so a short grounded farce was a good introduction to his style. If I had just opened up to the first page of Hitmen, I might have been majorly confused.

Like, Lies isn't astronomically great or anything (I already like Hitmen a lot more), but it's short and sweet, and funny. I think the most valuable thing I got out of it was Thorsby's willingness to do the absolute most, and stick to the bit even when he's written himself into 5 corners. I mean, most of why Lies is so good is that it's sort of a classic sitcom scenario of juggling lies, except it goes on for about 20x further than any sitcom character ever gets.

e: Well, Jim is an irredeemable rear end in a top hat who doesn't deserve a happy ending, but whatever lol

Mr. Steak fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Sep 24, 2019

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
"Well give your lucky star a hand job" is the best thing I've read all month.

(i just started trixie)

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
i just caught up!

and holy poo poo im extremely satisfied with how witch lady ended up dying lmao

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
is anyone else highly concerned that zoozo is simply going to get murdered on his way out of the building

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Update

one after another!

gotta love how the thing that made him so unkillable is entirely useless in his final moments

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Cat Mattress posted:

I like the slime on the knife, and Lilith running around in her socks. Thorsby cares about the little details.

same. you can answer the question "how did she get here" just by looking at her. which is excellent visual design.

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Pistol_Pete posted:

Once Thorsby finishes a story, how long before he starts a new one? It's an important part of my Mondays and Fridays.

I took it into my own hands to investigate this question, and it seems the time between the last panel of brainchip and the first update of trixie was half a year.

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
from a narrative perspective, lyndon is 100% right. the scepter's existence muddles the plot ridiculously. as for the in-universe morals, idk i think i'd be fine w using the scepter. i mean, that universe that dies is all fake, so

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

The Lone Badger posted:

That's a very bold ontological statement to make. They're as real as we are.

in essence its the same ontological question of "would a teleportation-clone of myself really be me or would it just be a separate entity with the same memories and personality?" like, theres a theory that such a teleportation device would result in the individual's perceived death, and the individual who appears at the destination would not actually be the same consciousness who left, despite having the exact same experiences. that a theoretical digitized immortality would actually be impossible for us to experience, and it would only be a simulation of us living inside the computer.

its also the same ontological question that "black mirror" poses with its favorite gimmick that it reuses every episode because its literally the best idea the show has had.

that kind of question is something i'd prefer not to think about in real life. tbh i would never use the scepter in real life, not because of any moral quandaries but because the scepter's effect itself is terrifying to me. i wouldnt want to know how i potentially may die

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

maltesh posted:

It could also be creating material pocket universes that are self-sustaining without any further scepter intervention, bridging one moment of communication, and then disconnecting from the pocket universe forever.

Is it less distasteful to use the scepter if that's what it's actually doing? Probably.

Given the way the comic seems to be winding down, though, Lyndon and the ambassador are probably canonically correct about how it works.

im fairly sure that to thorsby (or at the very least the characters), the stars thing is proof that its a simulated world rather than a truly self-sustaining world that exists physically in any capacity.

its been reasonably concluded that astral bodies *never* exist inside the scepter-verse, and that the scepter-verse has physical bounds which are much smaller than a self-sustaining universe could be. let alone the concept of whether the new universe is "killed", im skeptical that a new universe is ever created to begin with.

first, the stars thing is directly correlated to when the scepter gets touched, so that flat out cancels any notion that the scepter-verse(s) exist parallel or concurrently with the primary one. for all intents and purposes a universe is "created" but... who is living those simulated lives...? where...? when...? from the viewpoint of the primary universe, the scepter merely causes a short vision, and the individuals in that vision aren't real autonomous entities, the events seen in the vision never actually happened, and no actual time has passed in any universe. prior to touching the scepter, there was no such parallel universe to interfere with, and after touching the scepter, there is still no such universe.

if anything, i think the moral question w using the scepter is less a matter of killing a universe with real people in it, and more a question of "is it okay to create life that otherwise wouldnt exist, and then take away that existence in the same instant it was granted", which... i dont think is too morally wrong

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Android Blues posted:

Lyndon's definitely right. We spent a huge portion of the comic in a sceptre universe, and it's hammered out over and over again that the people in that universe are equally "real".

The logic behind it is just: for prophecy to work, you have to use determinism. To deterministically discover the future based on the present, you have to simulate future events with 100% accuracy. Even a tiny deviation ruins your experiment. So, to simulate future events with 100% accuracy, you have to create individuals who are identical in every single way to the individuals you want to generate a prophecy for. You also have to create circumstances for them that are 100% identical to their current circumstances. Anything that could conceivably affect their future in any way must be slavishly modelled. That necessitates an equally accurate recreation of the population of their entire planet.

The sceptre is flawed because it can't model prophecy based on interstellar events - its scope is restricted to things that are going to happen in a ginormous, but limited, radius around the point it's used from. Other than that though, everything indicates that the inhabitants of the sceptre universe are as "real" as the characters in the main universe. If they weren't identical in every way, the sceptre's deterministic model wouldn't work, because being "not real" would be a deviation.

i agree with all of that, but my argument is that those "real" people exist for an unbelievably short amount of time, such that you could barely say they existed at all. in the real world, decades of the entire planet's population could get simulated in probably microseconds, which for the intents of the primary universe is just a shitload of random information. i mean, for all we know, the scepter merely calculates the trajectory of every atom on earth perfectly, and the "sentient" life in the simulation, despite behaving identically to the originals, are nothing more than a shitload of atoms moving in predetermined ways. im not sure how exactly to explain what im getting at with this, but i dont think the events the scepter "knows about" are real. its a prediction. audrey never killed lyndon in any timeline. all that happened was real lyndon saw a vision of audrey killing him, based on a perfect simulation where an unfeeling audrey and unfeeling lyndon, along with an emotionless rest of the world, all act identically to if they had real emotions, even though they dont. their feelings are only the result of predicted atomic movements in their brains

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Relevant Tangent posted:

Wild how many people itt want to destroy entire universes of people who are as real as they are for no reason.

well, i wouldnt.

but anyway youre missing the point that for the simulated universe, the only alternative to being destroyed is never existing at all. idk if you can objectively declare which of those is preferable

edit: that extends to questions of "is birth unethical because you're dooming a person to die?" i say, obviously not

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

break-up breakdown posted:

for every instant that a person in the primary universe isn't remembering their own death, an infinite number of potential worlds are being casually sacrificed to a fate of non-existence. the only truly ethical course of action is to use the sceptre over and over, as fast as you possibly can.

this guy gets it!

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
i want to know if you can smack someone in the face with the scepter repeatedly as a form of torture

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

well now this just has me thinking of the countless entire universes created and destroyed in the span of like a day. because of bugs that come into contact with the scepter.

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

theironjef posted:

I never even existed because someone didn't touch the scepter when they had a perfectly good opportunity, so check your "got to exist" privilege.

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

uvar posted:

What if you were killed with the sceptre?? :350:

Oh right, it doesn't do anything within the scepterverse. It might give the wrong prediction if it took several hits to be fatal, but I can't imagine that corner case will get explored.

you'd experience getting killed with the scepter every time it touches you, until you die

unless theres some conceivable way for you to take a meaningful action between swings of the scepter, there wont be any false prophecies.

edir: that said, i do think theres a risk involved w every use of the scepter, that the consciousness you currently inhabit will be shunted to the scepter-verse like lyndon was before. i think that's a considerable risk you take every time you use it

...by which i mean, its likely you'd only have to experience dying once

Mr. Steak fucked around with this message at 13:06 on Dec 1, 2019

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
crack theory, every single use if the scepter we've seen resulted in something like lyndon's experience from the user's perspective, but since we're watching the prime universe, the scepter works every time despite astronomical odds against it (theoretically there are infinite universes where it didnt work for you, and 1 where it does)

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

uvar posted:

Now that I'm properly awake I can remember the specific scenario I was thinking of and yeah, it's not a loophole, it's just the victim getting killed in a slightly ironic way. But knowing Thorsby he thought about it more than I have, just in case, and dismissed it as both a problem and an interesting subplot.

It was something like this: let's say you get hit with the sceptre by a vicious mugger. In the sceptre universe, you are hurt but manage to run away, dying of some illness years later. In the real world, you get the pain and a vision of your future illness death, which disorients you and gives the mugger time to hit you again, killing you. But it's not breaking any rules, it's just a silly edge case.

interesting point, actually. i never thought about that critical error in the "coding" of the scepter. in fact, this is making think about how the scepter prophecies are entirely useless. after all, not a single predicted death has come to pass in reality. so the scepter can hardly be said to be accurate at all, technically. (edit: we dont know what that one dude was seeing before audrey stabbed him. but if seeing a vision makes no difference at all to the entire rest of a person's life... then that's probably the 1 situation where the scepter is accurate) (edit: actually, in the scepter's simulation, the scepter didnt work the first time he touched it so he wouldnt have continued touching it. so in fact the scepter was still quite inaccurate to reality)

since the "you" in the simulation never experienced a scepter vision (as we know they dont), and the real you did, thats a gigantic discrepancy from reality in the very first moment of the simulation. therefore, the scepter was never useful as an individual prediction device. assuming the scepter is working as intended, its purpose must have been the holistic, planet-wide predictions that it ended up being used for. and was never intended to accurately predict an individual's death.

Mr. Steak fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Dec 1, 2019

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

maltesh posted:

Makes me wonder if has other ways to get information out, but whoever had it before it became lost left the settings on "Show me how I die," and nobody who has acquired it since has figured out the controls.

correction: "show me how i would die if i didnt touch the scepter right now"

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Hempuli posted:

A quick take on Zoozo's campaign poster:


wasnt his campaign "i saved a kid once" or something...?

(also lol nice)

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Old Kentucky Shark posted:

Last panel of the last comic: the stars go out.

ugh goddamnit

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
trying to talk myself out of a "kentucky shark" ending being possible.

someone wouldve had to touch the scepter unsuccessfully and then survive, for that to feasibly be a twist ending right, i don't think that happened. unless of course it can be activated by touching a tree or some poo poo

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Pistol_Pete posted:

Yeah, this is all way too happy for a Thorsby ending; I'm worried now.

u know, lies sisters and wives had a super happy ending though :v:

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Old Kentucky Shark posted:

Last panel of the last comic: the stars go out.

this is going to loving happen.

i hate you

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Mr. Dick posted:

It's not really a bummer, it's a message to the audience. One potential future is what happens when society goes the barbarism route, the other when it goes the socialism route. It's your choice which ending you get, it's you who touches the scepter.

you know what, im actually very okay with multiple timelines being concurrently canon.

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Fantastic Flyer posted:

This has all been a vision the shadow baboon had when Audrey smacked it.

imagine though, the scepter actually stopped working in one of those times she whacked the baboon, but nobody knew anything was wrong and so later the skyggmerian dude touched it, realizes he's in a simulation and attempts to give himself a suicide-prophecy but it turns out he killed himself for nothing because the simulation is actually based on the baboon and knowing thorsby he'd make it so shadow baboons live a billion years just for irony

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
you know what just hit me: the stuff about the ambassador being insane because he has the determination to commit suicide so many times, otherwise the scepter wouldnt work the way he uses it... is basically all wrong. he doesnt *actually* need to have the willpower to commit actual suicide. he just needs the willpower to do so if the scepter doesnt work when he touches it.

so actually he just exploited a loophole lol

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

RandomFerret posted:

We're never going to find out what the deal is with the names

the kingdom is called diabolica. that's the explanation.

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

uvar posted:

I feel like we spoiled this one a little by putting all our intellects together and noticing the scepter's deal too early. Not that it was that subtle, but it would have been a pretty neat twist.

are you talking about way earlier in the comic? i wasnt following the thread back then. did you guys predict the end of the whole lyndon scenario?

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Mr. Steak posted:

I took it into my own hands to investigate this question, and it seems the time between the last panel of brainchip and the first update of trixie was half a year.

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
in the interim, goons should make an animated / voice acted trixie

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

quote:

Is there a new comic planned?

I have ideas for more comics, but I'm not entirely sure if I'll make more. Probably, but not soon.

i am upset!

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

e-dt posted:

Just found out about Thorsby from rereading the fantastic Unwinder's Tall Comics (it's down, I had to do it through the internet archive) today and caring enough to follow up on his guest game. I binged all of his work in 6ish hours straight. Very very good. I can't wait to follow the next (probably) strip in real time, although I will definitely forget every single story detail.

you read ALL of his comics in just 6 hours??? holy crap you're fast

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Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
was 2020 the first full year in thorsby's online career where he hasn't posted anything at all?

please thorsby, bless 2021 with a new comic

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