Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
JosefStalinator
Oct 9, 2007

Come Tbilisi if you want to live.




Grimey Drawer

RagnarokAngel posted:

Although I kind of get it the idea of giving the VP to the runner up is so ridiculous I'm amazed it lasted as long as it did.

It's really amazing how revolutionary some of their ideas and applications were, and how effective ideas like the Supreme Court turned out to be, but the whole "what if the runner up is from a different faction" thing never seemed to cross their minds.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Fritz Coldcockin
Nov 7, 2005
Without Jefferson we don't get the Louisiana Purchase and we probably get a continuation of the Alien and Sedition Acts (aka the PATRIOT Act before it was cool). Jefferson in '96.

GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013

Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.

JosefStalinator posted:

It's really amazing how revolutionary some of their ideas and applications were, and how effective ideas like the Supreme Court turned out to be, but the whole "what if the runner up is from a different faction" thing never seemed to cross their minds.

I got the impression it was specifically to try and avoid the formation of political parties (encouraging multiple different people from each "party" to run) while also empowering the largest group of "losers" instead of making them feel like they have no say in things at all, like a consolation prize. Also I think the VP was supposed to be more involved in Congress and policy? So it might have been yet another "checks and balances" type proposal where the runner up being a different "faction" might even have been intentional on the parts of those who did think of it.

It's not really a terrible idea in concept, but the execution is lacking and a good execution might not have been possible.

Alter Ego posted:

Without Jefferson we don't get the Louisiana Purchase and we probably get a continuation of the Alien and Sedition Acts (aka the PATRIOT Act before it was cool). Jefferson in '96.

Actually wouldn't anyone else have just jumped all over it without all the wishy-washiness?

babypolis
Nov 4, 2009

like pretty much everything else in the american constitution it was a weird compromise between the large and populous states and the small and lovely ones

Abner Cadaver II
Apr 21, 2009

TONIGHT!
I'm surprised the Founders didn't go whole hog with their Roman Republic love and have two presidents with authority alternating between every day.

GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013

Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.

Abner Cadaver II posted:

I'm surprised the Founders didn't go whole hog with their Roman Republic love and have two presidents with authority alternating between every day.

No, let's not half-rear end this, let's dial things up to 11. Every person who wins a state at all becomes president, but their power is directly related to the number of states they won.

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

Abner Cadaver II posted:

I'm surprised the Founders didn't go whole hog with their Roman Republic love and have two presidents with authority alternating between every day.

A co-consul system was considered early in debates at the Constitutional Convention. John Rutledge thought that a multiple executive system would cause a diffusion of responsibility and lead to easily to inter-executive rivalries. These arguments were opposed by Gerry and Randolph, who thought that the Presidency contained within it "the feotus of monarchy." As the only role of the Executive was to fulfill the will of the legislature, they argued that it was better for the position to be divided among several people instead of one person potentially usurping power from the other branches.

You can probably guess which argument won the day.

GlyphGryph posted:

I got the impression it was specifically to try and avoid the formation of political parties (encouraging multiple different people from each "party" to run) while also empowering the largest group of "losers" instead of making them feel like they have no say in things at all, like a consolation prize. Also I think the VP was supposed to be more involved in Congress and policy? So it might have been yet another "checks and balances" type proposal where the runner up being a different "faction" might even have been intentional on the parts of those who did think of it.

It's not really a terrible idea in concept, but the execution is lacking and a good execution might not have been possible.

The Vice President was intended to act as a spokesperson for the President in the Senate and advocate on behalf of his policies. During the Washington Administration, John Adams actively engaged with the representatives and was able to steer policy using his rhetoric and his authority over procedural matters. Of course, Washington doesn't seem to have encouraged these demonstrations of loyalty and kept Adams out of the policymaking sphere. As such, Adams was threatened with censure halfway through Washington's term. Then, Adams was replaced by Jefferson who had no interest in advancing his rival's policies.

The Vice Presidency never recovered from its early marginalization.

I haven't seen anyone state this outright, but based on Madison's notes, the Vice Presidency looks like an attempt to recreate the Prime Minister position within the U.S. Congress. The idea wasn't fully thought through and breaks down entirely with the "runner-up" system, but it isn't hard to imagine why it got into the Constitution's final draft. You want someone who can speak for the President without making the President a member of the Legislature and further expanding his authority.

QuoProQuid has issued a correction as of 20:46 on Nov 30, 2015

Meatbag Esq.
May 3, 2006

Hmm which internet meme should go here again?
Voted for the funk and booze ticket.

Moktaro
Aug 3, 2007
I value call my nuts.

foobardog posted:

Don't act all smug about the poo poo show in France, if we had supported them, perhaps the revolution would not have been perverted. We still need to support the moderates there over England. I bet the Crown had some meddling in it. We have yet to see democracy truly practiced in any country, even our own.

J. Adams saddens me that he cannot see the need to play the game and will fritter away the election to all these slaver aristocrats.

This moves Burr up to number one, and the other Adams seems appealing to me, even with me being a free thinker. Brews a good beer, too.

Burr/S. Adams '96 Duelling and beer for everyone!

I propose a new law: All participants in a duel must down a tankard of ale beforehand, and you only get one shot. If both parties miss, clearly God didn't want either of you yet, so just laugh it off and go have some more beer!

foobardog
Apr 19, 2007

There, now I can tell when you're posting.

-- A friend :)

Moktaro posted:

I propose a new law: All participants in a duel must down a tankard of ale beforehand, and you only get one shot. If both parties miss, clearly God didn't want either of you yet, so just laugh it off and go have some more beer!

My understanding is that this was normally the deal, and why they tended to use incredibly inaccurate pistols, or often just fire into the air. If they both missed, honor was met, and they went off on their way. There's some question whether Hamilton did this with Burr, while Burr didn't give any fucks and just shot at Hamilton.

In a famous duel, Andrew Jackson was shot by the other guy, missed his first shot, and in a breach of etiquette, reloaded and hit and killed with his second shot. Andrew Jackson was a stone-cold killer, and that's not hyperbole.

e: And because I can't stop talking about how insane Andrew Jackson is, his potential assassin had to be saved from Jackson when his shots didn't kill, and Jackson began wailing on him with his cane.

foobardog has issued a correction as of 22:34 on Nov 30, 2015

karmicknight
Aug 21, 2011
When it comes time for the Jacksonian revolution, the call to action will be "My President can beat-up your Kings."

Mitt Romney
Nov 9, 2005
dumb and bad

Alter Ego posted:

Without Jefferson we don't get the Louisiana Purchase and we probably get a continuation of the Alien and Sedition Acts (aka the PATRIOT Act before it was cool). Jefferson in '96.

Related candidate:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Ellsworth#Legacy

quote:

It is entirely a matter of speculation, but Ellsworth's conciliatory negotiations with Napoleon might have contributed to Napoleon's sudden choice three years later to sell the Louisiana Territory to the United States for $15 million.

exmarx
Feb 18, 2012


The experience over the years
of nothing getting better
only worse.
Going with Burr/Sadams, my uninformed but anti-slavery choices have turned out well so far :toot:

Joementum
May 23, 2004

jesus christ
Question: in this timeline did Adams and Jay abolish free speech in their first term because people said mean things about them?

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




I'm the most confused voter of 1796, President A. Burr and Vice President J. Adams here we go. :911:

In other news, link to current election, in OP, is out of date.

Sharkie
Feb 4, 2013

by Fluffdaddy
Voted John/John, we need to put the South in its place and drag it into a free and industrialized society asap.
i have no idea what i'm doing

Volkerball
Oct 15, 2009

by FactsAreUseless
enjoy your two terms mr adams. vive l'ouverture

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

Sharkie posted:

Voted John/John, we need to put the South in its place and drag it into a free and industrialized society asap.
i have no idea what i'm doing

you're following my pre-reconstruction flowchart: first vote abolition, then vote federalism, then vote gently caress the south

federalism is usually overlapping with gently caress the south but gotta make sure

Logic Probed
Feb 26, 2011

Having a normal one since 2016

Going with the anti-slavery theme going on here and voting for John Adams/Burr. Might as well try and rub out the issue before it gets way out of hand.

I'm looking forward to the 1980 and 1984 elections myself, just to see how many posters here will vote for Carter and Mondale just to spite Reagan.

Thump!
Nov 25, 2007

Look, fat, here's the fact, Kulak!



Logic Probed posted:

Going with the anti-slavery theme going on here and voting for John Adams/Burr. Might as well try and rub out the issue before it gets way out of hand.

I'm looking forward to the 1980 and 1984 elections myself, just to see how many posters here will vote for Carter and Mondale just to spite Reagan.

poo poo, I might vote for Reagan just to spite goons.

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

Joementum posted:

Question: in this timeline did Adams and Jay abolish free speech in their first term because people said mean things about them?

I like to imagine John Adams adding increasingly pompous and ridiculous titles to his name as a coping mechanism against the mean Jeffersonian press.

((Then probably jailing a bunch of printers because they depicted him as a short, fat, little man.))

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS

Logic Probed posted:

I'm looking forward to the 1980 and 1984 elections myself, just to see how many posters here will vote for Carter and Mondale just to spite Reagan.

I’m voting for Carter because he was a legit great president.

The Lord of Hats
Aug 22, 2010

Hello, yes! Is being very good day for posting, no?
While a unified timeline is pretty clearly a lost cause, I'd love to get tidbits from history goons about what they think would be the result of any given goon election, like how not electing Washington would probably have just made the union collapse completely, or what getting colonial-era Frank Underwood (Aaron Burr) elected might have been like.

Fritz Coldcockin
Nov 7, 2005

Platystemon posted:

I’m voting for Carter because he was a legit great president.

Pretty sure it's a given that either Anderson or Carter will be elected in 1980, thus eliminating Reagan from the timeline :getin:

cams
Mar 28, 2003


The Lord of Hats posted:

While a unified timeline is pretty clearly a lost cause, I'd love to get tidbits from history goons about what they think would be the result of any given goon election, like how not electing Washington would probably have just made the union collapse completely, or what getting colonial-era Frank Underwood (Aaron Burr) elected might have been like.
Seconding my support for a good effortpost, or series of them. I'd love to write them, but I really just don't have the history knowledge.

But yeah, I do think a case could be made that all the elections we are voting on can't happen, because failing to elect G-Wash would splinter the union.

I will never stop being disappointed in all of you for not giving us two straight Washington/Jay adminiatrations.

baw
Nov 5, 2008

RESIDENT: LAISSEZ FAIR-SNEZHNEVSKY INSTITUTE FOR FORENSIC PSYCHIATRY

Alter Ego posted:

Pretty sure it's a given that either Anderson or Carter will be elected in 1980, thus eliminating Reagan from the timeline :getin:

imagine four single-term presidents on the edge of a cliff

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS

cams posted:

I will never stop being disappointed in all of you for not giving us two straight Washington/Jay adminiatrations.

Jay wasn’t even an option in the election of 1792.

RPZip
Feb 6, 2009

WORDS IN THE HEART
CANNOT BE TAKEN
I just want to thank this thread for introducing me to Hamilton, which is just absolutely stunning.

JosefStalinator
Oct 9, 2007

Come Tbilisi if you want to live.




Grimey Drawer

Joementum posted:

Question: in this timeline did Adams and Jay abolish free speech in their first term because people said mean things about them?

Depends Joementum, how much do you really want to write alternate history fanfiction about the first President of the United States, John Adams?

baw
Nov 5, 2008

RESIDENT: LAISSEZ FAIR-SNEZHNEVSKY INSTITUTE FOR FORENSIC PSYCHIATRY
what are the candidates' views on gun control

Goatse James Bond
Mar 28, 2010

If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

Yeah, I'm going Jay/Ellsworth for maximum (zombie-)Hamilton puppetmastery.

Fritz Coldcockin
Nov 7, 2005
We all know that Eugene Debs is literally going to get elected to like 5 consecutive terms; if we tried to construct the Goon President Timeline it'd be the most bizarre alternate history ever. Glad we're sticking with established history despite election results.

rakovsky maybe
Nov 4, 2008
I think sticking with historical elections only makes sense cause it would quickly diverge and we wouldn't even get to vote for Bryan, Longs, and Debs. But it would be cool if someone came up with a timeline that did include all our chosen presidents after the fact or something.

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

Thank you all for voting. In a nail-biter of an election, His Elective Majesty, Our Lord-Protector, John Adams, President of the United States, Protector of Their Liberties, Defender of the Faithful, and Father of the Nation, has been re-elected to a third term. Returning from a brief Governorship in New York is John Jay. Both men have announced their commitment to a strong national government, a strong national defense, and stamping a boot on the Democratic-Republican face, forever.

Despite performing even worse than his running mate, Jefferson has vowed to return at the next election. We will see how successful he is.

RESULTS BREAKDOWN

Most popular candidates:

1. John Adams – 40 votes (44.4%)
2. John Jay – 38 votes (42.2%)
3. Samuel Adams – 31 votes (34.4%)
4. Aaron Burr – 30 votes (33.3%)
5. Oliver Ellsworth - 11 votes (12.2%)
6. Thomas Jefferson – 10 votes (11.1%)
7. George Clinton – 7 votes (7.8%)
8. Thomas Pickney – 7 votes (7.8%)
9. George Washington – 6 votes (6.7%)
10. James Iredell – 0 votes (0.0%)
11. John Henry – 0 votes (0.0%)
12. Samuel Johnston – 0 votes (0.0%)

Most popular tickets:

1. John Adams / John Jay – 18 votes
2. Aaron Burr / Samuel Adams – 12 votes
3. Aaron Burr / John Jay – 7 votes
4. John Adams / Samuel Adams – 6 votes
5. John Adams / Aaron Burr – 6 votes

Most popular parties:

1. Federalist Party – 96 votes (53.3%)
2. Democratic-Republican Party – 78 votes (43.3%)
3. Independent – 6 votes (3.3%)

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

ELECTION OF 1800

:siren: Click here to vote in the Election of 1800! :siren:



Background:
Obligatory Song

Newspapers are being shuttered by the federal government. Merchants fear mob violence on the streets of New York and Boston. American ships are being seized indiscriminately by the French. There are rumors that both France and England will soon invade, and that Adams has been calling up on every former Revolutionary War veteran to defend the nation if the time comes. They say that even George Washington was prepared to come out of retirement when he died. States are saying that they will call upon their militias to enforce the election results they want. This is the situation in 1800.

When Adams became president in 1796, war between England and France had already been causing difficulties within the new republic. America’s refusal to call a side has led France, led by the Directory, to suspend commercial relations and begin attacking American ships. Though many have called for full-scale war, especially after French officials demanded huge bribes before they would even consider talking to American diplomats, Adams has resisted these calls. His attempts to instead negotiate with the French and build a large standing army, have alienated Federalists and Democratic-Republicans alike.

Matters have been worsened by growing political tensions domestically. With the French openly endorsing Democratic-Republicans and several within the party calling for a French-style revolution, Adams has passed the Alien and Sedition Acts to maintain public order. Intended to quell uprest brought about by foreign powers, the Acts extend the Naturalization process, allow the President to deport any foreigner, and punish anyone who publishes “false, scandalous, and malicious writing” against a government official. Given Democratic-Republican control over much of the press, Jefferson has insinuated that the Acts are a veiled attempt at establishing a Federalist dictatorship. He has called upon the states to end this tyranny and, in the South, various states have endorsed the concept of nullification, the idea that states can invalidate federal laws. Adams is not sure who is responsible for this idea, but has vowed to prosecute them when he finds out.

Complicating matters even further is Alexander Hamilton. Perhaps outraged by Adams’s association with Burr and refusal to toe the party line, Hamilton has started a one-man crusade to unseat the president. Calling him a man with “great and intrinsic defects in character which unfit him for the office of chief magistrate,” Hamilton has turned the entire Federalist Party apparatus against Adams in an attempt to elect his unmemorable running mate, Charles Cotesworth Pinckney. This battle has largely annihilated Adams’s reputation within his own party. Many believe that Adams will inevitably be unseated. The only question is whether it is in a Federalist coup or a Democratic-Republican revolution.

The press for their part have been thrilled by the opportunity to slander everyone involved.


John Adams
  • Notable Positions: President of the United States, Vice President of the United States, Ambassador to England, Ambassador to the Netherlands, Delegate to the Constitutional Convention, Author of the Massachusetts Constitution
  • Party Affiliation: Federalist Party
  • Biography: Adams is a brilliant lawyer but principled to a fault, demanding adherence to precise pre-established procedural and policy guidelines. As Vice President, he has taken an extremely hands-on approach to the Senate and actively debates for the Administration, despite threats that he will be censured for doing so. He otherwise plays a minor role in politics and Washington rarely consults with him on policy matters.
  • Platform: Depending on who you ask, John Adams is either the only person standing between stability and complete chaos or a tyrannical despot who plans to stamp out the Bill of Rights and crown himself king. In 1798, Adams and the Federalist-controlled Congress passed the Alien and Sedition Acts, laws which allow the President to prosecute individuals who are “dangerous to the peace and security of the United States.” Though the Federalists argue that these laws are necessary to maintain order at a time of near war, Jeffersonians believe that the Federalists are using the Acts to suppress political opponents. Surprisingly, Adams separated himself from the Federalist establishment on most other matters. Despite the French seizing American ships, Adams has resisted calls to support Britain in its war and instead maintained American neutrality. He has also pushed through new taxes to expand the national navy and army, despite business opposition. Adams is a strong opponent of slavery and believes in public education.


Thomas Jefferson
  • Notable Positions: Secretary of State, Ambassador to France, Governor of Virginia, Delegate to the Continental Congress, Author of the Declaration of Independence
  • Party Affiliation: Democratic-Republican Party
  • Biography: Brilliant. Humorless. Cosmopolitan. Slaveholder. Jefferson is a man of contradictions, at once the author of the Declaration of Independence and at the same time a defender of the plantation system. Though his revolutionary zeal and legal brilliance attracts admirers, Jefferson is known for being uncomfortable in public settings. He rarely speaks before crowds, dresses in old-fashioned clothing, and often secludes himself from other people.
  • Platform: Depending on who you ask, Jefferson is either a defender of individual liberty or an insane atheist who will plunge America into war, chaos, and self-destruction. Using the Vice Presidency as his platform, Jefferson has attacked Adams for the Alien and Sedition Acts and his new taxes in support of the army and navy. Jefferson believes that the Federalist Party is trying to suppress its political opponents. Jefferson is afraid that the military will launch a coup if he wins. Jefferson has called upon the states to stop any federal tyranny, but it is not known whether he supports the idea of nullification, as expressed in the Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions. Otherwise, Jefferson hopes to build an “agrarian republic,” an America large enough that every citizen owns their own plantation or farm. He supports wars that will halt “the dangerous extension of the British Province of Canada and add to the Empire of liberty.” He owns slaves. He believes in a military based on the militia system.


Aaron Burr
  • Notable Positions: Senator of New York, New York State Attorney General, New York State Assemblyman
  • Party Affiliation: Democratic-Republican Party
  • Biography: Second son of a Presbyterian minister, Aaron Burr is active member of the New York social scene and a Revolutionary War veteran. For his charisma and connections, Burr is quickly supplanting Alexander Hamilton as the controller of New York. He has convinced the leaders of a little-known social club, the Tammany Society, to convince workers to vote for him by any means necessary. He’s also used federal disaster funding to fund his own private bank, which is currently being used to support favorable press and politicians. For this willingness to go outside the law and exploit others, Burr has earned the scorn of many prominent Federalists. John Adams thinks he is a nice guy.
  • Platform: Aaron Burr is the first candidate in the country’s history to actively campaign for the Presidency. Burr has allies in both Federalist and Democratic-Republican camps, but has lately begun siding increasingly against the “Federalist aristocrats.” He opposes slavery and believes that women are equal to men. He has made no public statements regarding France but is believed to be aligned with Jefferson.


Charles Cotesworth Pinckney
  • Notable Positions: Minister of Finance, Ambassador to France, Delegate to the Constitutional Convention
  • Party Affiliation: Federalist Party
  • Biography: Charles Pinckney is a nationally-respected leader who participated in the Revolutionary War and the Constitutional Convention. The eldest son of a prominent South Carolina planter, Charles Cotesworth Pinckney was tutored in London and studied law at Christ Church College in Oxford. Despite his loyalist upbringing and a long career serving colonial government, Pinckney joined the Patriot cause. Between 1789 and 1795 he declined presidential appointments to the U.S. Army, Supreme Court, Department of War, and Department of State. Instead, he accepted a position as Ambassador to France, where he helped defuse the XYZ Affair. Pinckney is known for being extremely scrupulous, refusing to pay bribes to facilitate negotiations.
  • Platform: Depending on who you ask, Pinckney is either the Federalist Party’s last chance for a real leader, or a buffoon being used by Hamilton as a puppet. Pinckney is a “High Federalist” who supports siding with Britain and declaring outright war against France. He believes in the need for a stronger, secularized national government that can preserve the ideals of the Revolution. He supports the Alien and Sedition Acts and believes legislators should serve without pay. Pinckney is a large slaveowner and opposed the immediate abolition of the slave trade at the Constitutional Convention. He believes slavery to be integral to the economy of the South.


John Jay
  • Notable Positions: Governor of New York, Chief Justice of the United States, Secretary of Foreign Affairs, Ambassador to Spain, President of the Continental Congress, Author of the Federalist Papers
  • Party Affiliation: Federalist Party
  • Biography: John Jay is the leader of the wealthy Jay clan and a dominating force in New York politics. Despite initial misgivings about independence, Jay served important roles in the Continental Congress and helped build the newly independent government of his home state. He was the chief negotiator in the Treaty of Paris, which ended the Revolution with American independence. He has begun to excuse himself from official duties, citing poor health, and is expected to retire from politics.
  • Platform: John Jay supports a strong, centralized national government and is willing to encroach on the states to build an independent American economy. Regardless of his position, he has consistently ruled in favor of the federal government’s authority to regulate the power of the states. He strongly opposes slavery and supports rapprochement with England. He helped Washington draft a Neutrality Proclamation in response to growing unrest in France. He supports the Alien and Sedition Acts, but believes it has been used too liberally. He is wary of Hamilton’s desperation to stop the Democratic-Republicans. Jay views a large national military as an unfortunate, but necessary, precaution.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS
I’m not saying that John “Alien & Sedition” Adams is a great guy, but I’m sure not voting for

Aaron “had such a bitchfit over not getting the presidency that he went to the western frontier, made friends with a Spanish spy, and tried to get the west to secede from the union” Burr

or

Thomas “having children with his property” Jefferson

Pinckney’s opinions are bad. He can’t even choose a good portrait painter. He has Lindsey Graham’s background and ¡Jeb!’s backbone.

Platystemon has issued a correction as of 15:26 on Dec 6, 2015

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

Before you vote, you may wish to read the local newspaper to find their views on the candidates. Assuming you are literate, here is what you would read:

Bache & Co. posted:

The President is an old, querulous, bald, crippled and toothless.

quote:

Jefferson is a mean-spirited, low-lived fellow, the son of a half-breed Indian squaw, sired by a Virginia mulatto father raised on hoe cakes

quote:

John Adams is a hideous hermaphroditical character with neither the force and firmness of a man, nor the gentleness and sensibility of a woman.

Martha Washington posted:

Jefferson is one of the most detestable among mankind

The Philadelphia Aurora posted:

[b]Things As They Have Been (under Adams)

The principles and patriots of the Revolution condemned. . . .

The Nation in arms without a foe, and divided without a cause. . . .

The reign of terror created by false alarms, to promote domestic feud and foreign war.

A Sedition Law. . . .

An established church, a religious test, and an order of Priesthood.

Portland Gazette posted:

Unrestrained by law, or the fear of punishment, [Jefferson will allow] every deadly passion to have its full scope, private quarrels will be revenged, and public feuds and rivalships will call forth the bitterest hate and vengance. Neighbors will become the enemies of neighbors, brothers of brothers, fathers of their sons, and sons of their fathers. Murder, robbery, rap, adultery, and incest will be openly taught and practiced, the air will be rent with the crisis of distress, the soil soaked with blood, and the nation black with crimes. Where is the heart which can contemplate such a scene without shivering with horror!

...the United States will become a horrid scene of dwellings in flames, hoary hairs bathed in blood, female chastity violated... children writhing on the pike and halbert.

QuoProQuid has issued a correction as of 15:24 on Dec 6, 2015

Mitt Romney
Nov 9, 2005
dumb and bad

QuoProQuid posted:


Charles Cotesworth Pinckney
  • Notable Positions: Minister of Finance, Ambassador to France, Delegate to the Constitutional Convention
  • Party Affiliation: Federalist Party
  • Biography: Charles Pinckney is a nationally-respected leader who participated in the Revolutionary War and the Constitutional Convention. The eldest son of a prominent South Carolina planter, Charles Cotesworth Pinckney was tutored in London and studied law at Christ Church College in Oxford. Despite his loyalist upbringing and a long career serving colonial government, Pinckney joined the Patriot cause. Between 1789 and 1795 he declined presidential appointments to the U.S. Army, Supreme Court, Department of War, and Department of State. Instead, he accepted a position as Ambassador to France, where he helped defuse the XYZ Affair. Pinckney is known for being extremely scrupulous, refusing to pay bribes to facilitate negotiations.
  • Platform: Depending on who you ask, Pinckney is either the Federalist Party’s last chance for a real leader, or a buffoon being used by Hamilton as a puppet. Pinckney is a “High Federalist” who supports siding with Britain and declaring outright war against France. He believes in the need for a stronger, secularized national government that can preserve the ideals of the Revolution. He supports the Alien and Sedition Acts and believes legislators should serve without pay. Pinckney is a large slaveowner and opposed the immediate abolition of the slave trade at the Constitutional Convention. He believes slavery to be integral to the economy of the South.

If any of you ever visit Hilton Head, SC you should check out Pinckney Island: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinckney_Island_National_Wildlife_Refuge

Thump!
Nov 25, 2007

Look, fat, here's the fact, Kulak!



When does Adams son run for Presidency? Seriously, John is still the only guy who should have the job. America was meant to be a dictatorship :unsmigghh:

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

Thump! posted:

When does Adams son run for Presidency? Seriously, John is still the only guy who should have the job. America was meant to be a dictatorship :unsmigghh:

John Quincy Adams will get a single electoral vote in the Election of 1820, which unfortunately puts him just below the criteria to be included as a candidate in that election. He'll run officially in 1824 and 1828.

  • Locked thread