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QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

tanglewood1420 posted:

Just lost as Dukakis vs Bush Sr. in 1988 - 279 to 259 though so put up a good fight considering the real life results. Despite picking John Glenn as a running mate and campaigning there several times I lost in Ohio 50% to 48%, which would've swung it for me.

Fun game though, now to try out all the other years. Thanks for the link.

I went for a different approach. :twisted:

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oystertoadfish
Jun 17, 2003

i won as mitt romney. visited only florida, ohio, virginia, and colorado, said a mix of strong and moderate poo poo, won all four states plus the ones romney actually won. i am proud

looking at the results it seems like someone won 1968 as wallace. that's probably pretty hard to do

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

Thank you for voting. It’s been four years since the beginning of the First American Civil War. As fighting rages across the Midwest, polling booths have been closed. Many states, including the battleground state of Ohio, have temporarily abolished the popular vote until fighting subsides. Despite these undemocratic reforms, His Elective Majesty James G. Birney has only narrowly won re-election, due largely to vote splitting between Clay and Polk. Though Thomas Morris has been technically elected Vice President, his untimely death has caused the Electoral Vote to fracture, resulting in no winner. The rump Senate is expected to pick Morris’s replacement when they convene.

In other electoral news, President John C. Calhoun of the Confederated States of America has been killed in a duel by the old General Andrew Jackson. Though an opponent to Birney’s radical abolitionism, Jackson has apparently used the chaos to settle an old score and help restore the Union.

The Republic of Texas, for one, is relieved that their petition for statehood was denied.

RESULTS BREAKDOWN:

Most Popular Ticket:


James Gillespie Birney / Thomas Morris (Liberty) - 41 votes (50.6%)
Henry Clay / Theodore Frelinghuysen (Whig) - 31 votes (38.3%)
James Knox Polk / George Mifflin Dallas (Democratic) - 9 votes (11.1%)

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

ELECTION OF 1848

:siren: Click here to vote in the Election of 1848! :siren:



In December of this year, President Polk is expected to deliver his final State of the Union address. The last four years have been hard, but transformative. Under the Polk administration, the United States has integrated Texas and acquired Oregon. He has kept his promises to lower tariffs and open up the federal government to common people. Communication has remained open with Congress and the Presidency is more powerful than ever. President Polk went into office with a focused agenda and may be one of the first men to accomplish every single one of his campaign promises.

From a different perspective, Polk’s expansionism has opened up previously closed rifts between the North and South over slavery. As slaveowners look towards the Mexican cession to expand their peculiar institution, Northerners are becoming increasingly less open to compromise. With the slave states poised to outnumber the free states, Northern abolitionists in Congress have written the Wilmot Proviso, a bill that would formally block slavery in all the territory acquired during the Mexican-American War. This bill has outraged Southerners. In public, many accuse the North of radicalism while in private, some are considering secession.

For Democrats and Republicans, both of whom are made up of a coalition of Northerners and Southerners, these growing tensions represent a problem. There is a real risk that if they do not contain, or at least conceal, these fiery attitudes that they will disappear from the national stage, replaced by radical regional parties like the Liberty Party and rapidly coalescing Southern Rights Party. Thus, both Democrats and Republicans have made de-escalating tensions a major focus.

For Democrats, the party of the common man and direct democracy, the solution seems simple. Led by Lewis Cass, one of Jackson’s closest Northern allies, the Democrats have embraced the doctrine of popular sovereignty, a policy that would allow the residents of each state and territory to determine for themselves whether to allow slaves. Cass believes that this proposal will be satisfying for everyone because it takes the decision out of the hands of the federal government. However, Cass has been loudly condemned by Northern forces who argue that “popular sovereignty” will only lead to manipulation by Southern interests. Most prominent among these opponents is Martin Van Buren, who has led a mass walk-out of the Democratic Party and established his own “Free Soil” Party, one that it committed to containing slavery. Though Martin Van Buren has no expectation of victory, he hopes to act as enough of a spoiler to deny Cass the Presidency.

The Whigs, on the other hand, have addressed the issue by ignoring it altogether. Instead of making a clear statement on slavery, the party has nominated yet another war hero of uncertain political affiliations, Zachary Taylor. Famous for his conduct during the Mexican-American War, where he defeated Santa Anna despite being outnumbered 2:1, Zachary Taylor is renown across the United States and internationally for his understanding of military affairs. In Taylor many see Jackson or Washington, a war hero who can navigate around regional divisions to bring about lasting change. Given Taylor’s complete lack of political experience, and his failure to even vote before this election, it remains to be seen whether this is a smart strategy for the Whigs.

The lack of a platform has led the Democrats to hurl vicious personal attacks at Taylor, calling him “vulgar, uneducated, cruel, and greedy.” Whigs, including the little-known Abraham Lincoln and Rutherford B, Hayes, have been forced to defend their candidate within their communities and rebut the attacks.

Elsewhere, social problems are bubbling towards the surface. For reasons yet unknown, alcoholism and cases of public drunkenness have skyrocketed. These incidents have had a devastating impact on communities across the country, destroying families and leading to increased violence, both on the streets and in the home. Some are blaming the chaos on Catholic immigrants, many of whom are from Ireland, and have set themselves towards converting or killing the masses.In Philadelphia, the Native American Party has convened for the first time to think up solutions to the “immigrant problem” and nominate a candidate for President. Though they have fallen in line with their old allies, the Whigs, many suspect that it is only a matter of time before these Know-Nothings try to carve out a place in American society like the Anti-Masons did a generation earlier.

In addition, women are mobilizing increasingly for a role in political society. In Seneca Falls, the first gathering devoted to women’s rights was held with about 100 people in attendance. Though most dismiss the “women’s suffrage movement” as a fanciful Yankee dream, the movement is gaining steam within the Quaker and abolitionist community.

Background:

WHIG PARTY NOMINEES:


Presidential Nominee: Zachary Taylor
  • Party Affiliation: Whig Party
  • Notable Positions:
  • Biography: Zachary Taylor is a career military officer with no prior electoral experience and no political ties, increasingly valuable assets in the polarized United States. A proven war hero, nicknamed “Old Rough and Ready” for his willingness to share his troops’ hardships, Taylor’s most significant achievement is his leadership at the Battle of Buena Vista. There, Taylor decisively beat Santa Anna, despite being outnumbered 20,000 to 6,000. Multiple “victory clubs” have sprung up around the country, celebrating Taylor as a latter-day Andrew Jackson or George Washington. Before the war, Taylor was known as an Indian Fighter and led patrols through native territory to deter raids on frontier communities. He is an extremely wealthy slave owner who owns plantations across Louisiana, Kentucky, and Mississippi. He is married to Margaret Mackall Smith, a former socialite who promised God to give up all high-society luxuries if her husband survived the Battle of Buena Vista.
  • Platform: Zachary Taylor’s campaign platform is unique within history, mainly because he doesn’t have one. Taylor has never even voted in an election before. Afraid that a clear platform might inflame sectarian tensions within the Whig Party, the leaders have instead decided to circulate pamphlets lauding Taylor for his military successes and achievements. No one is entirely sure what Taylor stands for. Still, there are rumors. Some say that Taylor is an anti-Jacksonian who despises Jackson for his decisions on the Natives and the National Bank. Many believe that President Taylor will re-establish a strong banking system and give the United States one central currency. He is also believed to oppose Jackson on the veto and has told his friends that he would only use his presidential powers to stop bills that were clearly unconstitutional. Others say that Taylor opposes tariffs and internal improvements, believing them both to be dangerous policies that artificially sustain the American economy. Most strangely of all, Taylor has given signals that he might sign the Wilmot Proviso, a controversial bill that would prohibit slavery in the west. Though a slaveowner himself, Taylor allegedly agrees with Van Buren’s assessment on the institution’s inefficiency and backwardness. He has also told friends that any man, “taken in rebellion against the Union [for Taylor’s actions against slavery].. would hang” and that he would personally oversee such hangings “with less reluctance than he had hanged deserters and spies in Mexico.”


Vice Presidential Nominee: Millard Fillmore
  • Party Affiliation: Whig Party
  • Notable Positions:
  • Biography: There have never been two running mates as different as Taylor and Fillmore. Millard Fillmore was born the second of eight children to two deeply impoverished farmers. Unable to support his children, Fillmore’s father apprenticed Millard to a clothmaker where he effectively worked as a slave until he was able to steal enough money to buy his freedom. Deeply fascinated by books and education, Fillmore fell in love with his former teacher, Abigail Powers, and was able to self-teach himself law. In 1828, Fillmore gained his first experience with politics by joining the Anti-Masonic Party, where he distinguished himself as a rising star within the movement and a fervent Anti-Jacksonian. By 1848, Fillmore has served multiple offices at the local, state, and federal level. He has been selected by the Whigs to deflect potential criticisms about Taylor’s inexperience and to balance the ticket with an anti-slavery Northerner. Personally, Fillmore and Taylor loathe one another.
  • Platform: Fillmore is not well-known outside his home state and has largely kept in line with Taylor’s refusal to clarify his positions. Still, much can be assumed given his political history. A Northerner but close ally of Henry Clay, Fillmore has ensured the passage of palatable compromises on the slavery issue. He believes that abolitionism is a well-intentioned but radical movement that would tear apart the Union and that the Wilmot Proviso would lead to Civil War. Fillmore opposes the much more anti-slavery William Seward and was put on the ticket partially to block Taylor should he try to appoint him to the Cabinet. He personally opposes the Fugitive Slave Law but believes that it must be protected to appease the South. He has been indecisive on the annexation of Cuba. In other foreign affairs, Fillmore is known to be deeply interested in Asia and the Pacific. He personally hopes that the Taylor administration will open trade with China and Japan. Fillmore has adopted the same jingoistic pro-revolutionary stance as many of his predecessors and believes that the United States should support democratic revolutions abroad. Fillmore supports the independent Treasury system and Clay’s American System. He believes in the need to support internal improvements and protective tariffs. He deeply opposes Freemasonry and believes that all secret societies should be outlawed.

DEMOCRATIC PARTY CANDIDATES:


Presidential Nominee: Lewis Cass
  • Party Affiliation: Democratic Party
  • Notable Positions:
  • Biography: Lewis Cass is a towering figure within the Democratic Party, particularly following the death of Andrew Jackson. After settling in Zanesville, Ohio, Cass distinguished himself within the local community as a county prosecutor and a leader of the rapidly growing Freemasons, for whom he founded the Grand Lodge of Ohio. After serving in the War of 1812, Cass was named Territorial Governor of Michigan, a position which allowed him to oversee the rapid expansion of European settlers into Indian territories. For his steadfast loyalty to the Democratic Party (and because Jackson could find no alternative candidates after the Eaton Affair), Cass was appointed Secretary of War by Andrew Jackson in 1831. This position allowed him to make use of his experiences in Michigan and Cass became the central figure of Jackson’s Indian removal policy. He has most recently distinguished himself as a Northern spokesman of the Doctrine of Popular Sovereignty, a compromise on the slavery issue that allows each state to pick their slave policy.
  • Platform: Lewis Cass has made a name for himself advocating the doctrine of popular sovereignty, a proposed system whereby the people residing in a territory decide whether to allow slavery. Cass is sympathetic towards, but opposed to the Wilmot Proviso, which would bar slavery in all territory seized during the Mexican-American War. He has also been a prominent advocate of “Manifest Destiny,” and has spoken at length about purchasing Cuba as well as more territory from Mexico. He also believes that the natives are a threat to European Americans and has personally overseen efforts to ensure their removal from the frontier. Like Polk, he is willing to use military force to achieve both these objectives. Unlike many of his contemporaries, Cass is a Jeffersonian Democrat more than a Jacksonian Democrat. He agrees with Jefferson’s vision of an “agrarian republic,” and sees expansion as the best way to guarantee every citizen a farmstead. Cass opposes internal improvements and expansive tariff policies, as they both interfere with free trade. He would maintain the Treasury system. Cass is a Freemason.


Vice Presidential Nominee: William Orlando Butler
  • Party Affiliation: Democratic Party
  • Notable Positions:
  • Biography: Butler is the Democratic Party’s answer to Zachary Taylor, a hero of both the War of 1812 and Mexican-American War. Born in Kentucky, Butler was able to graduate from Transylvania University just before enlisting in the Kentucky militia. He then served under Andrew Jackson’s command in the Battle of New Orleans, eventually receiving a promotion to Major. During the Mexican-American War, Butler again served a prominent position as General Zachary Taylor’s second-in-command and led the Battle of Monterrey after the General was wounded. These distinctions have allowed Butler to achieve significant personal success. He has served both the Kentucky House of Representatives and Congress. In 1844, Butler was unanimously nominated to be the Democratic nominee for the Governor of Kentucky. He operates a successful law firm near Carrollton, Kentucky. He has written a small collection of poetry.
  • Platform: Much like Zachary Taylor, very little is known about Butler’s political views because the party has refused to clarify them. Instead, they have used Butler’s military successes to raise Cass’s profile and hopefully avoid complaints over slavery. Still, Butler is known within the party as a moderate on most issues. He is a slaveowner but supports gradual emancipation, even if that policy causes tensions within the South. He supports the Independent Treasury System and would not abolish it, like his more radical comrades. He believes strongly in “Manifest Destiny” but would prefer that diplomacy be the option of first resort over military arms.

FREE SOIL PARTY CANDIDATES:


Presidential Nominee: Martin Van Buren
  • Party Affiliation: Free Soil Party
  • Notable Positions: United States Ambassador to the United Kingdom, United States Secretary of State, Governor of New York, United States Senator from New York
  • Biography: A member of America’s insular Dutch community, Van Buren gained fame for his ability to interact with people from multiple, ethnic, income, and societal groups. An accomplished lawyer, political organizer, and multi-linguist, Van Buren first came to public attention at the age of 18, when he was selected as a delegate for the Democratic-Republican Party convention in Troy, New York. Afterward, Van Buren made a name for himself by leading the “Bucktails,” a faction dedicated to thwarting the corrupt Governor of New York, DeWitt Clinton, and his Erie Canal Project. In 1821, Van Buren joined the United States Senate, where he supported Andrew Jackson and avoided involving himself in the Corrupt Bargain. As a result, Jackson considered Van Buren a close friend, despite Calhoun’s attempts to destroy Van Buren’s career only strengthened their partnership. After Jackson’s death, Van Buren has found himself shut out of the Democratic Party and outright ostracized for his increasingly anti-slavery views.
  • Platform: In the 1848 Democratic National Convention, Martin Van Buren once again sought his party’s nomination. When he was denied and replaced with a pro-slavery Democrat, Martin Van established the Free Soil Party with the intent of stopping the further expansion of slavery. Using the Wilmot Proviso as a rallying cry, Martin Van Buren has argued for a ban on slavery in any territory conquered during the Mexican-American War. He has further called the federal government to contain and isolate the South, contending that slavery is inherently undemocratic and inhumane. While he does not support immediate abolition, believing that it would cause an uprising in the South, Martin Van Buren believes that by isolating the slaveholders he can make them realize that their institution is inefficient and obsolete. This realization, in turn, will abolish slavery without causing a civil war. Van Buren has also called for the elimination of all protective tariffs and has promised to only use tariffs for revenue if elected. He has also called for a Homestead Act to make cheap land available in the West, encouraging settlement. Van Buren is anti-war and hopes that future presidents only use peaceful means to gain new territory. On all other affairs, Van Buren is a Jacksonian Democrat. He supports the expansion of suffrage and is in favor of an independent Treasury capable of guiding, but not controlling, the economy. He does not support expansive internal improvement projects.


Vice Presidential Nominee: Charles Francis Adams, Sr.
  • Party Affiliation: Free Soil Party
  • Notable Positions: Representative in the Massachusetts House of Representatives.
  • Biography: Charles Francis Adams has been in the public spotlight since he was born. The son of President John Quincy Adams and grandson of President John Adams, Charles is expected to one day run for major office. Rather, the younger Adams finds himself more drawn to history than politics. Though a close friend of Daniel Webster, Charles Francis Adams’s sole political achievement to date is a single term in the Massachusetts House of Representatives. Instead of public office, Charles Adams has written extensively on American and British history. He is known as one of the country’s finest historical editors and is currently working on a biography of his grandmother, Abigail Adams. Many suspect that he only joined Martin Van Buren on the Free Soil Party ticket because he does not expect to win.
  • Platform: Charles Francis Adams, like his father, is a committed abolitionist who broke with the Whigs for nominating a pro-slavery candidate for President. Like Martin Van Buren, Adams has embraced the Wilmot Proviso, which would prohibit any further states from having slaves. He has been active in opposing the Fugitive Slave Act and has worked to legally isolate the South so that their laws have minimal effect in the North. Unlike Van Buren, Adams hopes to take a more active role in ending slavery and would use his position to negotiate binding compromises that slowly abolished the institution. He does not take Southern threats of secession seriously. On most other issues, Adams is a Whig. He supports Clay’s American System and internal improvements more generally. While he supports the independent Treasury, he would prefer to have a national bank in line with the Second National Bank of the United States. He considers tariffs a necessary measure to help develop the country’s infrastructure.

LIBERTY PARTY CANDIDATES:


Presidential Nominee: Gerrit Smith
  • Party Affiliation: Liberty Party
  • Notable Positions: Co-Founder of the Liberty Party
  • Biography: Gerrit Smith is one of the country’s best-known abolitionists and philanthropists and he is the main financial backer of the Liberty Party. Born in Utica, New York to the wealthy daughter of a Revolutionary War veteran, Smith connected America’s own revolutionary establishment with the revolutionary cause of abolitionism. He became an official sponsor of the movement after witnessing an angry pro-slavery mob attack anti-slavery activists near his hometown. In 1840, Smith helped establish the Liberty Party and ensured that his brother-in-law, James Birney, was on the ticket. In 1846, he made national headlines when he donated approximately 120,000 acres of land to freed African-Americans in the hopes that they would become self-sufficient. The project rapidly failed and Smith gained a reputation as an eccentric. Smith is a close friend of Lysander Spooner and maintains ties to activists across the United States.
  • Platform: Gerrit Smith controls the rump Liberty Party, an organization that almost disappeared after Martin Van Buren announced that he would also be running an abolitionist party. As such, Smith has used the party as a vehicle to raise awareness of a variety of social issues that have little public support. As his affiliation suggests, Smith supports the immediate abolition of slavery but does not believe an amendment is needed to make this possible. In fact, Smith believes that the Constitution is inherently an anti-slavery document. If elected, Smith hopes to confiscate property from various land monopolies and settle freed slaves across the United States, where they can thrive in their own communities. He has declared that all men “have an equal right to the soil,” thus making war brutal and unnecessary. Smith wants to return any territory unlawfully gotten from the Mexican-American War to Mexico. Smith has proposed several sweeping changes to the United States Government, which includes granting women the right to vote, outlawing all secret societies (like the Freemasons), and making all positions within government directly elected. Smith believes that tariffs and alcohol are evil tools of the elite used to suppress the masses. He would prohibit the transportation of liquor between states if elected.


Vice Presidential Nominee: Charles C. Foote
  • Party Affiliation: Liberty Party
  • Notable Positions: Presbyterian Minister
  • Biography: Born in 1811 to Dr. Henry Foote, Charles is a wealthy activist inspired by religious tradition to act against slavery. In 1840, he graduated from Oberlin College. Though he studied medicine, Foote felt a deep desire to do missionary work across the United States. He is the pastor for several churches across New York and Michigan and is a fundraiser for various anti-slavery causes.
  • Platform: Foote is deeply inspired by Protestant ideals to reform society. As his party might suggest, Foote hopes for the immediate abolition of slavery and wants to resettle the freed slaves in lands donated by wealthy philanthropists across the United States and Canada. He also hopes to use land confiscations, particularly those from land monoplies, to support this venture. Foote wants the Sabbath to be a nationally recognized holiday and the Bible to be taught in all public schools across the country. He believes all Catholics should be converted or forced to leave the country. Foote supports the prohibition of alcohol and sees it as an enabler of wickedness. He wants the country to be on a single currency backed by gold.

QuoProQuid has issued a correction as of 16:47 on Feb 28, 2016

1488
Feb 24, 2013


That's a link to the 1844 election.

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

1488 posted:

That's a link to the 1844 election.

Thank you. It should be working now.

tinaun
Jun 9, 2011

                  tell me...
the liberty party is rapidly morphing into ron paul

axeil
Feb 14, 2006
Wow gently caress this election :smithicide: Either a guy who stands for literally nothing, a guy who wants to implement his final solution to the Indian Problem, or two guys who are going to split the abolitionist vote.

How the hell did Taylor actually win in our timeline when he had no platform to speak of? Was he really that popular for beating Santa Ana?

I'm voting Van Buren because he seems like the only one of the lot who hates slavery and who could actually have a chance to win. A former senator/president should be able to do better than a guy who just decided to make his own party.

Vote for Freedom. Vote for Van Buren.

axeil has issued a correction as of 16:18 on Feb 28, 2016

Pakled
Aug 6, 2011

WE ARE SMART
The Whigs are running a man who will gleefully hang Southerners with a man who will destroy Freemasonry. I think we know who the best ticket is.

axeil
Feb 14, 2006

Pakled posted:

The Whigs are running a man who will gleefully hang Southerners with a man who will destroy Freemasonry. I think we know who the best ticket is.

birnie('s brother-in-law) 2016 1848?

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

axeil posted:

How the hell did Taylor actually win in our timeline when he had no platform to speak of? Was he really that popular for beating Santa Ana?

Yes. Because of Andrew Jackson, nominating war heroes was a common tactic used by both parties to win elected office. The Whigs were especially prone to it, because it allowed them to avoid alienating any part of their North-South coalition. When Zachary Taylor ran in 1848, he seemed like Andrew Jackson without all the unfortunate anti-establishment baggage that Jackson carried. He had beat the Mexicans against overwhelming odds and had spent a career defending the Western states against Indian incursions. It's hard to overstate how popular he was in an age before real celebrities.

It also helps that Martin Van Buren robbed the Democrats of their entire Northern wing. In New York, Van Buren finished ahead of Cass. Had Cass won New York, he probably would have won the election despite losing the popular vote.

QuoProQuid has issued a correction as of 16:47 on Feb 28, 2016

Alfred P. Pseudonym
May 29, 2006

And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss goes 8-8

I'm a Van Buren Boy

axeil
Feb 14, 2006

QuoProQuid posted:

Yes. Because of Andrew Jackson, nominating war heroes was a common tactic used by both parties to win elected office. The Whigs were especially prone to it, because it allowed them to avoid alienating any part of their North-South coalition. When Zachary Taylor ran in 1848, he seemed like Andrew Jackson without all the unfortunate anti-establishment baggage that Jackson carried. He had beat the Mexicans against overwhelming odds and had spent a career defending the Western states against Indian incursions. It's hard to overstate how popular he was in an age before real celebrities.

It also helps that Martin Van Buren robbed the Democrats of their entire Northern wing. In New York, Van Buren finished ahead of Cass. Had Cass won New York, he probably would have won the election despite losing the popular vote.

so he was like the 1848 version of running donald trump, except actually popular outside of the party. :v:

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

axeil posted:

so he was like the 1848 version of running donald trump, except actually popular outside of the party. :v:

More like the 1848 version of Eisenhower.

It's probably worth mentioning that Taylor had no deep attachment to the Whigs and probably only joined them because he believed Polk had intentionally set out to kill him. In 1846, Polk ordered Taylor to march into disputed territory, knowing that Taylor would be attacked by the large Mexican army stationed there, as a way of giving the Americans a justification to go to war. When Taylor emerged unharmed, he was given increasingly suicidal orders, starting with a mission to conquer the "un-destroyable" city of Monterrey and ending with the Battle of Buena Vista. In the latter, Taylor was apparently forced to fight in hand-to-hand combat to survive.

Thump!
Nov 25, 2007

Look, fat, here's the fact, Kulak!



QuoProQuid posted:

More like the 1848 version of Eisenhower.

It's probably worth mentioning that Taylor had no deep attachment to the Whigs and probably only joined them because he believed Polk had intentionally set out to kill him. In 1846, Polk ordered Taylor to march into disputed territory, knowing that Taylor would be attacked by the large Mexican army stationed there, as a way of giving the Americans a justification to go to war. When Taylor emerged unharmed, he was given increasingly suicidal orders, starting with a mission to conquer the "un-destroyable" city of Monterrey and ending with the Battle of Buena Vista. In the latter, Taylor was apparently forced to fight in hand-to-hand combat to survive.

Well the dude just earned my vote. Anyone who hates Jackson and Polk can't be all that bad.

Lord Cyrahzax
Oct 11, 2012

You know, if this thread has taught me anything, it's that all candidates and their platforms only ever manage to range from awful to embarrassing. So, a man with no platform is the obvious solution.

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




Buren/Adams '48.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Questions:

1. I know the Republicans split off from the Whigs at some point - previously were they a faction inside the Whigs?

2. Transylvania University? Wha-t

3. I absolutely love that as things get nastier the only solution is to bring in a popular guy who's so outside the political system he's never loving voted before. Let alone has a platform. (Not really a question.)

4. Is that a real picture of Filmore? Neat. Also lol at "Taylor and Filmore despised each other."

I'm also laughing up my sleeve at all of this annex Cuba talk, which could have happened before the Civil War with the willing acquiescence of Spain, only to have the chance utterly blown through incompetence.

CuwiKhons
Sep 24, 2009

Seven idiots and a bear walk into a dragon's lair.

QuoProQuid posted:

More like the 1848 version of Eisenhower.

It's probably worth mentioning that Taylor had no deep attachment to the Whigs and probably only joined them because he believed Polk had intentionally set out to kill him. In 1846, Polk ordered Taylor to march into disputed territory, knowing that Taylor would be attacked by the large Mexican army stationed there, as a way of giving the Americans a justification to go to war. When Taylor emerged unharmed, he was given increasingly suicidal orders, starting with a mission to conquer the "un-destroyable" city of Monterrey and ending with the Battle of Buena Vista. In the latter, Taylor was apparently forced to fight in hand-to-hand combat to survive.

Sounds like Zack's my man.

Also:

QuoProQuid posted:

In fact, Smith believes that the Constitution is inherently an anti-slavery document.

haha, what? He thinks the document that includes the 3/5ths Compromise is inherently anti-slavery?

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

5. Lysander Spooner? Lysander Spooner?

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

CuwiKhons posted:

haha, what? He thinks the document that includes the 3/5ths Compromise is inherently anti-slavery?

So, around this period the abolitionists kept running into a wall when it came to popular support. While the moderates and pro-slavery Democrats could point to the Constitution and the Founding Fathers to say that slavery was legal and justifiable, the abolitionists had no laws or provisions that they could use to support immediate abolition. Some abolitionists, like William Lloyd Garrison, decided that trying to argue within the constraints of the Constitution was fruitless, and took to advocating open rebellion to end the institution. Others, led by Lysander Spooner, decided that advocating disunion was harmful to the abolitionist cause as a whole and that they needed some legal argument to gain popular support.

Enter in The Unconstitutionality of Slavery. Written in 1845 to explicitly address abolitionism's apparent unconstitutionality, the pamphlet tries to prove that the Constitution does not endorse slavery but instead prohibits it. The document cites various clauses of the Constitution related to slavery. Then, using original meaning textualism, which relies on the original definition of the words instead of the original intent of the authors, claims that all the clauses related to slavery are contradictory. Because of poor word choice, the Founding Fathers accidentally produced a document that contained no special provisions protecting slavery. Then, the pamphlet uses a long and complicated analysis of common and natural law to conclude that slavery is evil and thus untenable within the American system.

It's an absolutely ridiculous argument and Spooner himself said that he only wrote it to give Northern "fence-sitters" a technical argument to support abolition.

Yadoppsi
May 10, 2009

QuoProQuid posted:

If you ever wanted to pretend that you were a presidential candidate and test your ability to win over voters, American History USA has been posting past elections in the form of browser games. Recently, they've added the Election of 1844 to the collection, allowing you can campaign as an anti-expansionist Polk or a slightly less racist Clay. Unfortunately, the game does not yet let you Birn it down.

Right now, it's filling the "You are LBJ" sized hole in my heart.



Its a fun website but I'm upset they moved some elections to premium only. Having Byran beat McKinley in his home state of Ohio and win that election was the best thing ever.

Yadoppsi has issued a correction as of 19:18 on Feb 28, 2016

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

Nebakenezzer posted:

Questions:

1. I know the Republicans split off from the Whigs at some point - previously were they a faction inside the Whigs?

2. Transylvania University? Wha-t

3. I absolutely love that as things get nastier the only solution is to bring in a popular guy who's so outside the political system he's never loving voted before. Let alone has a platform. (Not really a question.)

4. Is that a real picture of Filmore? Neat. Also lol at "Taylor and Filmore despised each other."

I'm also laughing up my sleeve at all of this annex Cuba talk, which could have happened before the Civil War with the willing acquiescence of Spain, only to have the chance utterly blown through incompetence.

1. Way back in the days of Madison and Monroe, a "Republican" was an informal name for Northern Democratic-Republicans who disliked slavery. The Republican Party found its core supporters among the various anti-slavery parties, like the Liberty Party and Free Soil Party, and slowly sapped the Northern wings of the Whigs and Democrats. It will be relevant to future elections, but there was no guarantee that the "Republican Party" would come out on top after the Whigs collapsed in 1852. It could have just as easily been the nativist American Party.

2. Still exists, actually.

3. You'll notice a pattern form over the next few elections when it comes to war heroes and campaigns. As things become more polarized, parties are forced to pick political unknowns so they won't alienate anyone or war heroes who are hopefully popular enough to deflect criticism.

4. Yes. It's a daguerreotype taken in 1849, shortly after Fillmore was sworn it. The photographer also took pictures of John Quincy Adams and Andrew Jackson and spent the latter portion of his life documenting the Civil War.

Nebakenezzer posted:

5. Lysander Spooner? Lysander Spooner?

Continuing the theme of really cool names that, unfortunately, never caught on.

QuoProQuid has issued a correction as of 19:04 on Feb 28, 2016

Empress Theonora
Feb 19, 2001

She was a sword glinting in the depths of night, a lance of light piercing the darkness. There would be no mistakes this time.
I was worried about the abolitionist vote being split this election, and then I realized that van Buren had an Adams on the ticket! The Free Soil Party represents a coalition of the most powerful political factions in the SA forums electorate.

karmicknight
Aug 21, 2011
Smith is also against all alcohol, meaning that he's managed to alienate the hard cider camp worse than Van Buren.

SpRahl
Apr 22, 2008
I vaguely remember reading in a book that at the time of his election Taylor was lukewarm towards the South but by the end of his presidency he had gotten so sick of their poo poo so much he just started essentially trolling them.

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

karmicknight posted:

Smith is also against all alcohol, meaning that he's managed to alienate the hard cider camp worse than Van Buren.

Turns out goons love their alcohol more than women's suffrage.


SpRahl posted:

I vaguely remember reading in a book that at the time of his election Taylor was lukewarm towards the South but by the end of his presidency he had gotten so sick of their poo poo so much he just started essentially trolling them.

Just before his presidency ended, Taylor had ordered federal troops to defend Santa Fe from Texas and promised to veto the Compromise of 1850. He was a Southern slaveowner but the South's continued pushes to expand slavery made him a really vocal opponent of the South. I've read speculation that, had he served his full term, there might have been a civil war.

QuoProQuid has issued a correction as of 19:37 on Feb 28, 2016

Thump!
Nov 25, 2007

Look, fat, here's the fact, Kulak!



QuoProQuid posted:

Turns out goons love their alcohol more than women's suffrage.

Women won't gently caress us, might as well get drunk and deny them the vote :v:

Otherkinsey Scale
Jul 17, 2012

Just a little bit of sunshine!
"Maybe anti-Jacksonian or something" is good enough for me. TAYLOR! *smashes telegraph*

QuoProQuid posted:

So, around this period the abolitionists kept running into a wall when it came to popular support. While the moderates and pro-slavery Democrats could point to the Constitution and the Founding Fathers to say that slavery was legal and justifiable, the abolitionists had no laws or provisions that they could use to support immediate abolition. Some abolitionists, like William Lloyd Garrison, decided that trying to argue within the constraints of the Constitution was fruitless, and took to advocating open rebellion to end the institution. Others, led by Lysander Spooner, decided that advocating disunion was harmful to the abolitionist cause as a whole and that they needed some legal argument to gain popular support.

Enter in The Unconstitutionality of Slavery. Written in 1845 to explicitly address abolitionism's apparent unconstitutionality, the pamphlet tries to prove that the Constitution does not endorse slavery but instead prohibits it. The document cites various clauses of the Constitution related to slavery. Then, using original meaning textualism, which relies on the original definition of the words instead of the original intent of the authors, claims that all the clauses related to slavery are contradictory. Because of poor word choice, the Founding Fathers accidentally produced a document that contained no special provisions protecting slavery. Then, the pamphlet uses a long and complicated analysis of common and natural law to conclude that slavery is evil and thus untenable within the American system.

It's an absolutely ridiculous argument and Spooner himself said that he only wrote it to give Northern "fence-sitters" a technical argument to support abolition.

This is great. Squinting and peering at the Constitution until it says what you want is perennial.

lambeth
Aug 31, 2009

Nebakenezzer posted:

2. Transylvania University? Wha-t

There was a colony called Transylvania in what would later become Kentucky. Not sure why they picked that name though.

Thump!
Nov 25, 2007

Look, fat, here's the fact, Kulak!



Carrasco posted:

TAYLOR! *smashes telegraph*


You're a beautiful soul :unsmith:

Harold Stassen
Jan 24, 2016

lambeth posted:

There was a colony called Transylvania in what would later become Kentucky. Not sure why they picked that name though.

Sylvania means "wooded land", Pennsylvania = Penn's woods etc

Corek
May 11, 2013

by R. Guyovich
I will gladly take the opportunity to vote in another Adams, stop slavery, and defeat :tinsley: himself.

Corek has issued a correction as of 21:16 on Feb 28, 2016

Ibogaine
Aug 11, 2015

Corek posted:

I will gladly take the opportunity to vote in another Adams, stop slavery, and defeat :tinsley: himself.

Yeah, the chance to vote for an Adams won me over for the Van Buren ticket as well. Oh, yeah, and, well, anti-slavery, too, I suppose. And speaking of Van Buren: More like Van Burren, if you catch my drift here!

And why am I not surprised that :tinsley: named his alter ego after an anti-abolitionist?

foobardog
Apr 19, 2007

There, now I can tell when you're posting.

-- A friend :)
You fools! Will we make the same mistakes we've always made as we've tried to lead this country? Yes, there is an Adams, but we all know that our forefathers rebelled from England to get away from these dynasties. Let the children define themselves. With that said, if we attack the peculiar institution head on, we will continue to fail due to the machinations of the freemasons. You say that Taylor believes in nothing, I say he believes more heartedly in loving the South than Van Buren who merely wishes to isolate them and hope they come to their mind.

Foolish! I know the people of the South, I have family in the South. They will be pigheaded and stubborn until Judgement Day, and even then throughout eternity. Men who dehumanize men through slavery are no men, and dehumanize themselves more. They only know through war and pain and bloodshed. They do not respond to reason.

Taylor/Fillmore '48

(This might actually be a competitive election among the Order of Goons.)

Acebuckeye13
Nov 2, 2010
Ultra Carp
I've got to give a shout-out to Nebakenezzer for linking this in the MilHist thread because I would have never found it otherwise. This is an amazing thread, and you're all tremendous posters :allears:

Also I can't wait for us to hit the 1870s so we can change the thread title to "If nominated I will not run, and if elected I will not serve"

Lord of Pie
Mar 2, 2007


Yeah, he's gonna be the goon write-in vote until he dies regardless

fantastic in plastic
Jun 15, 2007

The Socialist Workers Party's newspaper proved to be a tough sell to downtown businessmen.
Free soil and free labor! #FeelTheBuren

SpRahl
Apr 22, 2008
I am kinda curious just how many civil wars we have probably triggered with our goon elections.

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Proposition Joe
Oct 8, 2010

He was a good man
Finally! Another Adams to put in the White House.

QuoProQuid posted:

James Knox Polk / George Mifflin Dallas (Democratic) - 9 votes (11.1%)

:eyepop:

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