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whydirt posted:It's a miracle he didn't punch someone, to be honest. It's LSV, I'm sure at worst he'd have delivered a bon mot.
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Dec 6, 2015 01:42
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To be fair, I could almost accept the reasoning that touching the sink fixtures at a convention hall bathroom filled with nerds would be a net decrease in cleanliness.
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Dec 6, 2015 03:58
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Cernunnos posted:Source for those of us who are curious?
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Dec 7, 2015 02:41
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Instead of printing the entire future sight cycle, just put Grove on the sheet twice and Canopy three times.
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Dec 7, 2015 03:02
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What color is snow? That's loving ridiculous, snow isn't a color, it's a loving ripoff that I can't use five different basic lands and five different snow basics to get sunburst = 10 
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Dec 7, 2015 03:27
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Admiral posted:Nope. Nope nope nope. When I first saw Magic cards (a heck of a long time ago, maybe not quite 1996) mana was this strange new mystical term that conveyed a sense of wonder. I imagined my wizard actually reaching out to the Basalt Monolith and drawing forth its great flows of stored energy. What I'm saying is that Wizards has, slowly and by degrees, pissed on any meaning that the nature of mana had for me so now I'm pretty much down with whatever makes it a little bit more mechanically elegant.
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Dec 7, 2015 03:31
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More like Mystic GAYte amiriteIrony Be My Shield posted:The magic and wonder of a number in a grey circle Actually, I think it was one of the old ones that said "TAP TO ADD THREE COLORLESS MANA TO YOUR MANA POOL" (caps mine to better convey the sense of wonder those words created in my wide, youthful eyes). At the very least, it was one of the Legends tap symbol ones.
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Dec 7, 2015 03:35
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Niton posted:Does Shadowmoor count? Even then, this is a functional change on exactly zero cards - all cards which use generic mana will continue to use generic mana, and all cards which produce any amount of colorless mana will continue to produce exactly that amount of colorless mana. It's not even as though this is the first time they've changed the templating for producing colorless mana.
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Dec 7, 2015 03:52
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Some Numbers posted:It's not exactly the same, but they started coloring the expansion symbols in Exodus. They also changed a shitload of rules and the associated templating between Urza's Legacy and Destiny, but admittedly that was because core sets came at a weird (in retrospect) time during blocks, and not because they specifically decided to do it mid-block for shits and giggles.
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Dec 7, 2015 06:37
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Allstone posted:Who knows, the reminder text could end up being "(When you cast this spell, players can’t cast spells or activate abilities that aren’t mana abilities until it resolves. <Something something this doesn't mean you ignore timing, priority, or triggered abilities>)". I really doubt they don't look for judge feedback on reminder text amendments. "When" is misleading because it makes it sound like a triggered ability. I'd go with something like "Players can't [...] between the time this spell is cast and the time it resolves." But the more important point is the fact that you (meaning Wizards) are never going to win the arms race with people who are congenitally unable to parse any but the simplest rules text, so you may as well just concede that particular battle and let the rest of us have cool things.
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Dec 8, 2015 07:33
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You can tap e.g. a green creature to pay for either the green-colored or generic mana component of a convoke spell's cost, which is exactly what the reminder text says. The only thing that will need a bit more clarification is if we ever see a convoke card with diamond symbols in its mana cost, because then you could (I assume) use any colorless creature to convoke the diamond cost, but that might not be immediately apparent. To be clear, I mean it's not apparent solely from the existing convoke rules whether a colorless creature can tap for diamond, since it's not tapping for its "color" (because it doesn't have one). It would be most intuitive for colorless to tap for diamond mana and I assume that's what they'll go with, but it does need clarification.
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Dec 8, 2015 21:55
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Chill la Chill posted:What's really gonna blow people's minds is when 2/<> becomes an optional cost. This, except unironically.
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Dec 8, 2015 22:52
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I think they mean like, you Prophetic Bolt a thing, it gets bounced, you still get to impulse.
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Dec 8, 2015 23:51
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:I think that 90+% of the time, when a spell with a single target is countered on resolution but you really wanted it to resolve, the thing you missed out on doing is some form of drawing a card. In that case it's kind of a feature, not a bug-- strategically removing your own dudes to deny your opponent value. Like Remanding your own Cryptic. The Oblivion Ring trick was also very much a feature and not a bug, at least in the analogous edge cases, and they still dumpstered it--though that was by templating things differently and not by changing the way the underlying rules worked. In other words, I agree with you that it's an interesting feature but I wouldn't expect that to protect it forever if someone gets a bee in their bonnet to change it the way cheetah7071 is describing.
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Dec 9, 2015 00:12
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Deceptive Thinker posted:lol at people complaining about this when it's only even been a consistent thing since 8th edition - a little more than half of the game's existence Strictly speaking, you can find it a lot earlier than that, but early examples like this are pretty much down to inconsistent templating. They standardized on writing out "colorless mana" for a while, then started changing it back to generic mana symbols with Odyssey (the Odyssey nonbasic lands didn't have them, but Nantuko Elder did, and it appears that starting with Onslaught the nonbasics did too).
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Dec 9, 2015 02:02
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Deceptive Thinker posted:That's what I meant by the word "consistent" - even in the link I posted the Ice Age version has it Touche. I started with the point in my head that it was happening consistently before 8th (Onslaught, like I said) but then I rambled. 
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Dec 9, 2015 02:08
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Sigma-X posted:If Siege Rhino cost ♦WGB it would be as hard to play him in a 3+colorless deck as it would be to play him in a 4 color deck if he cost WGBR. This is why it's effectively a 6th color. It is not incentivizing anything in any way that the existing 5 mana symbols don't operate. It is exactly the same. This brings up an interesting thought, if they do run with the idea of diamond mana, how long until they print [diamond / one of the colors] "dual lands" because the thought of any tension existing in manabases causes them to poop themselves?
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Dec 9, 2015 03:01
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Sigma-X posted:like the painlands, the original karoos, and a bunch of others? And of course the filter lands. Like, you know, the Mystic Gate we saw.  Sorry, you can tell that I don't have my head fully around all the implications of the change yet, myself. On the one level I realize that now most nonbasics will tap for D, but on the other hand the implications of that for certain duals in decks with D spells is something that completely blows by me.
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Dec 9, 2015 05:09
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To be fair, the desire to buy and destroy all the copies of Seance is one I can sympathize with, in principle.
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Dec 9, 2015 18:36
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I don't understand why you'd make any Magic game that wasn't very closely tied to the TCG mechanics, because it seems like most of the selling points for MTG reside in the familiarity and appeal of those mechanics (whether the mechanics are good on an objective level is, of course, debatable). Once you move it into something that plays substantially differently, you're trying to compete against other potential fictional universes on the basis of characters and setting features, and I don't think MTG matches up very favorably. To look at it another way, there's a big reason why fans making custom card sets based on other genres or properties (Space: The Convergence, Star Wars, etc.) is way more visibly popular than fanmade d20/FATE/whatever hacks for the Magic setting, to the extent that I don't think I've ever heard of the latter. Not to say they've never existed.
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Dec 10, 2015 17:09
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Zoness posted:Although abstractly magic's resource generation/spending system is pretty useful. Flavor justifications, eh v Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. The basic mechanics of Magic, even if they don't always make for the very best game, are appealing enough. Heck, I should probably add HexTCG to that list, even though they changed some things to try and improved it (and then changed more things due to copyright). My core point is that I'm guessing that's why you see Magic's mechanics being exported other places, but don't see Magic's flavor or setting exported, at least not nearly as successfully.
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Dec 10, 2015 17:26
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Chill la Chill posted:Yeah it's weird. As you know in the other thread, but others here might not, 40k gets a huge boost of popularity every single time a non-tabletop implementation of the game is made. They all play wildly differently from the /tg version. But that's cuz it thrives on its setting. Magic essentially does the same thing as 40k, but it uses staggered implementation of pop culture instead of a continuous one. That's probably its biggest flaw there wrt IP consciousness. You could probably grow the IP to the likes of 40k if you started caring about Legacy/Vintage, where all these pop culture universes are constant, and making it the main game but WOTC clearly doesn't want to do that. Also they'd have to revisit Kamigawa and make it much more ^___^ kawaii sugoi with ninja, samurai, and tons of geisha only. Now I'm picturing the Weatherlight Saga/Urza Block as the 30k to Newwalker Power Rangers' 40k. I'm not sure about the bobbleheads and action figures. I think what they have going for them, if anything, is that they're a much lower barrier to entry. If you sort of like Ajani and think he's been cool on a few cards, you can buy a bobblehead of him and have it on your desk. It's probably not any dumber than whatever else you'd have on your desk in its place, and you're not really going to think about it very much because desk kitsch isn't something you think about. Having to actively learn a new game that tries to trade on the creative aspects of the IP is not only a bigger time investment, it's also much more likely to make you think "hmm, am I actually as invested in this setting as the owners clearly hope I am?"
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Dec 10, 2015 18:44
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Lottery of Babylon posted:It's parasitic in the sense that green is parasitic. If you want to run green creatures in your deck, you need to include lands that produce G. I think the thing that makes this analogy not quite complete is that green is going to be around forever in every set, as far as we know. If they just printed green in one set, then it would be parasitic. That said, I think you're still substantially on-point with that analogy. Really, I don't think you can 100% say a mechanic is parasitic except in retrospect. We can usually say something will be parasitic because it's a safe bet that sunburst won't actually become an evergreen thing, but technically we don't know it, and here I think it's safe to say that there's a greater-than-average chance of their sprinkling diamond costs into more sets going forward, just like hybrid mana (as people have noted). The fact that all past and future colorless sources that tapped for {1} will now tap for {D} also goes a long way to keep it from being parasitic, since they don't actually have to put e: I may be using a definition of parasitic other than the strict Magic dictionary definition here, but I think it's the practical definition most people are concerned about.
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Dec 11, 2015 18:00
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Death Bot posted:In the sense that Orange Fluffy Sheep used it, specifically that it doesn't play nice with converge and demands that you don't play 5+D decks... that's exactly the point. Yeah, the more I think about it, the more saying "It doesn't play nice with converge, therefore parasitic" is really pretty dumb, because Converge is the thing that asks you to distort your mana base with dual land rainbow vomit, whereas {C} in theory just asks you to play a certain number of wastes and/or colorless utility lands that are often worth playing anyway. But the Overton window has shifted so far towards 4+ color good stuff that we see what is more or less a mono-color theme (even if the "color" is something new) as being the parasitic one. As an aside, C being the official letter isn't going to stop me from making a million jokes about wanting the D, getting the D, etc.
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Dec 11, 2015 20:18
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:It also hates Devoid! Don't forget that the colorless mechanic and the colorless mechanic don't work well together. Which by extension gets Processors as all ingesters are devoid cards and nothing in true colorless below 7 mana exiles. {c}-cards are gonna have to do a lot of work to get over being bad with colorless cards. Converge is just part of it; Kozilek's Chaneller and Hedron Archive and Pilgrim's Eye are the only spells in BFZ that cost less than 6 mama and don't oppose colorless-only, because the rest are colored or punish colorless. It's not as though you can't just play one color of devoid cards along with your diamond cards, or maybe even two colors depending on how good the mana is. The colorless matters cards play pretty well with diamond cards. Not sure how well the ingest/processor decks will work with only one pack of the BFZ cards, but wasn't that always going to be the case?
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Dec 12, 2015 00:14
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suicidesteve posted:Right, but WUBRG are also C in most situations. This is explicitly not true, any more than "WUBR are also G in most situations" is true.
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Dec 15, 2015 00:01
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Chill la Chill posted:This is not even my true form. There is a color beyond... I like to think that the exploding of (some) Magic players' heads as they try to grasp the concept of the C symbol is exactly analogous to what in-universe planeswalkers are experiencing as they see the horrifying reality of Kozilek's emergence. They've never before had to think about what colorless mana actually was or how it could be different from generic mana... and maybe, before, there truly was no significant difference... but now they see, they SEEEEEEEEEEE
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Dec 15, 2015 00:49
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whydirt posted:I almost wish they'd done the change to the colorless mana symbol in Origins. Core sets have been used to make rules/templating changes often and it would have hinted at colorless being a thing in BFZ block without giving too much away. This also would have been perfect for avoiding the "spoil C's appearance in the small set" problem that they might have had with doing it in BFZ: *sees Origins* Oh, I bet BFZ block is going to key off of the new symbol in some mechanical way! *sees BFZ* Oh, there's nothing about colorless mana here and the colorless cards mechanic is actually Devoid. Guess it was a red herring. *sees OGW* 
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Dec 15, 2015 04:22
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Also the store should (in theory) be giving you a sizeable discount on the entry fee relative to drafts for which a store needs to provide prize support.
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Dec 15, 2015 04:27
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kizudarake posted:rabidsquid and black potus are loving hilarious sorry your mom vaccinated you as a kid rabidsquid and black potus (and mcmagic in his capacity as a straight man) are basically the only things keeping this thread readable sometimes
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Dec 16, 2015 06:41
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Chyea posted:I'm over Oath, now I just want Shadows over Innistrad spoilers. Tibalt as a Jund planeswalker. His ultimate gives you an emblem with 'At EOT, draw a card, discard a card at random, then Spider Spawning.'
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Dec 16, 2015 08:07
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Angry Grimace posted:I mean, we coulda talked about the "what's the play" but everyone hates Twin, so... The correct play is to stall until the news of Twin's banning comes through. Unfortunately, that causes a draw as both you and your opponent lose, but it's still the best play.
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Dec 16, 2015 08:55
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Torment, Judgment, and Onslaught were 2002. It might have extended into Legions which was January 2003. 99% sure the 2002 leak Maro apparently referred to was when Judgment was spoiled in its entirety due to MTGO fuckery. I think they accidentally put all the data for it into an update or a public test build or something, and people figured out how to view it.
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Dec 16, 2015 18:43
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:Leaks are fun, but there's something lost when you just get a big dump of the whole thing ore close to it like with this or NPH. What's the "like with this" here? OGW hasn't been spoiled to nearly that extent, or has it?
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Dec 16, 2015 20:04
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Angry Grimace posted:And as for leaks, well, they hurt WOTC, not the players, so I don't really give a poo poo if the company literally selling pieces of cardboard gets the feelbads. To build on this a bit: If leaks get players excited and lead to overall good sales of the product, the brand should be happy enough. Yes, they might get the wind taken out of their sails, but if at the end of the day all they care about is dolla dolla bills, it shouldn't matter if each $100 worth of nerd excitement was generated by a leak or by an official preview article. Maro might have his principles offended, but ultimately I don't think they deploy the corporate lawyers in order to massage Maro's ego. The conditions under which the marketing team really gets to  about the leak is if it diminishes excitement about the set. It's easy enough to understand why they'd be disgruntled in that situation. That said, Wizards have only themselves to blame if they make a set such that learning about it causes people to not want to buy it. In fact, if you think about it, this should be sending up major warning flags, as it's tantamount to an admission that if we had information about their product, we wouldn't want to buy it as much.Now, there's something to be said for the idea that if a spoiler spoils like, a Grey Ogre or something, that's unfair to the marketing team. People see this boring 15th-pick draft card and they lose enthusiasm for the set far in advance. That's academic in this case, though, because the spoilers here could hardly have been better picked as marquee cards: Kozilek, big new "mechanic," Expeditions. If that doesn't get the target audience excited enough for you, fire yourself. All of this is, of course, talking only about marketing to nerds and not about corporations' abuse of the idea of intellectual property or whatever.
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Dec 16, 2015 20:33
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I mean, sure, the marketing team exists for a reason, but trying to sell it to the playerbase is a laughable concept. It's not a movie, it's the image of a product we can't actually buy at the time we see it and have to buy later.
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stinkles1112 posted:He's blue also, see Herald of Kozilek I really like the idea that somehow, Kozilek is to the Eldrazi what the Izzet are to normal beings.
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Dec 16, 2015 23:41
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Sickening posted:Name and shame, coward. I think I might be the one he's talking about because I know I've foolishly tried to deploy analogies in this thread on many occasions and I might have said that they reflect a similar sort of FYGM, better-we-all-suffer-than-my-inferiors-get-nice-things mentality, but I'm certain I never said that lack of healthcare is on the same map as lack of wizard cardboard in terms of scale or human suffering. I have no problems believing that Sigma would have read that into my words, though, because goons have real (and possibly deliberate) problems understanding that when someone makes a rhetorical analogy, they're intending to demonstrate some sort of point and not necessarily to claim that the two things are identical or comparable in all particulars.
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Dec 17, 2015 01:17
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cheetah7071 posted:Leaks are less exciting than official spoilers but every argument Trick made other than that was dumb as hell. This is a legitimate point but their takeaway from that should be to make spoiler season longer, it seems like. Or just design good enough limited/Standard environments that people aren't quite as desperate for anything to get excited about, which I suspect is a noticeable factor in this case. BJPaskoff posted:One of I think Maro's articles had a secret link to an image that just had Infect and its reminder text. It got people really speculating. This is the exact thing I was thinking of as far as how to do a pre-preview-season. I still don't think a teaser months out and then blueballs until the standard 2-3 spoiler weeks is a good balance to strike, but more of this would be a move in the right direction. JerryLee fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Dec 17, 2015 |
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Dec 17, 2015 01:40
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Bugsy posted:SuicideSteve is about to play LSV on his stream in vintage. That was amazing.
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Dec 17, 2015 07:09
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imo you shouldn't nutpunch people with guns, but tbf the 'with guns' part is irrelevant 99% of the time
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Dec 17, 2015 19:11
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