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Tesseraction posted:It's almost as if Islamophobia is a particular strain of reactionary political thought. I don't agree that it's inherently reactionary, though a lot of things involved under the umbrella term 'Islamaphobia' would be such. Things such as racism and flailings about "Sharia law" or other such nonsense are pretty typical of reactionaries. But the "phobia" itself, as in the fear of Islam and more specifically radical Islam, is a response to decades of news stories on Hijackings, murders, suicide bombings, beheadings and other such barbarism, without themselves knowing much about the religion itself or the people here in western nations who follow it. When someone hears nothing but that sort of violence in regard to Islam, and especially as we have international terror groups specifically threatening to commit horrible acts in the west, it's not irrational to be afraid of such a thing (people do not take statistics into account when fear comes into play). Stories of seemingly quiet and nice individuals "sponteneously" radicalizing and attacking public places only cement that fear. "It could be anyone with a beard and a funny name..." one might think. It then becomes a problem, when the usual suspects prey on that fear and whip people into a frenzy over it. Racism and persecution follow shortly behind. What's the solution though? Because clearly denying people's fears hasn't been helpful in the least. It's actually emboldened the right further, as they'll be the ones to tell people just what they want to hear. Who they should be afraid of and how much. Fighting Islamaphobia with facts is a good start, so long as it's put in a way the average, scared person can understand and isn't inherently combative. There seems to be a tendency to belittle the frightened for having that fear, and citing statistics. Sometimes even alluding that the individual is racist or a bigot in the process.
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Dec 7, 2015 20:08
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SedanChair posted:I'm more worried than I have ever been about targeting of a minority in this country, all signs point to an uptick in vigilantism and targeted killing very soon. Agreed. It bothers me that I seem to be powerless to do anything about it but vote and argue with those close to me who agree with Trump's poo poo.
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Dec 10, 2015 19:09
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Morbus posted:OK but I just want to hate the guy at the kebab shop because he is different from me and I'm a fat insecure white guy in the lower middle class. How am I supposed to derive any sense of superiority by simply belonging to the correct group of people, if I can't blame bad things on the intrinsic character of another group of people? I just need some reason to be better than someone else without actually doing work or amounting to anything ok? This sort of thing makes right-wing propaganda about sneering liberal academics effective. Most people who are afraid of Muslims are earnestly afraid, not just stupid bigots. Though we certainly have a shitload of those too. You can thank 30-40 years of negative news coverage on Islamic terrorism (the vast majority of which against other Muslims) and 14 years of acute screaming from the Republican party and propaganda wing.
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Dec 11, 2015 05:11
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computer parts posted:Racists are genuinely scared of black people, it's not an either-or thing. The quote I was responding to was stating that their reason is they want to hate anyone different, in order to feel superior to someone to make up for their lovely lives. Yes, people who do that can also be afraid of whatever minority as well, but Islamaphobia is not rooted in the above sort of racism for a lot of people that I deal with. Fear of the Other due to propaganda can be beaten with integration and empathy, but a desire for white supremecy as a sense of self-worth is the sort of thing that's only reinforced when challenged.
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Dec 11, 2015 16:58
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Really I don't think anything can be done about it. At least not by the West. Extremists in the Middle East are perfectly happy to kill each other over different interperatations of scripture when they don't have an imperialist enemy to concentrate on. Hopefully some day something will be done (internally mind you) about the Saudi and Iranian governments stoking the flames of such things, but until then I doubt there is a solution that would be palatable by any non-bloodthirsty people.
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Dec 11, 2015 21:17
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Helsing posted:It's a pretty serious issue. The leading GOP candidate's success seems to be coming largely from anti-Muslim sentiment, and more than half of GOP primary voters seem to support his call for a total ban on Muslims. We can't really get a handle on one without talking about the other, as they're linked. People coming from a war torn region rife with extremism (where there currently is a group that claims to want to harm westerners at home, and has done so) are being eyed with susupicion as possible terrorists. Obiviously this isn't a good thing, as it leads to persecution and oppression, but it's also notable that a major attack has (9/11) in recent memory been done by Middle Eastern immigrants. That said, we need to find a way to address the valid fears of extremists coming into the country (Such as Malik, one of the shooters in San Bernandino) to do harm, while at the same time preventing Islamophobia from gaining any further foothold. So far, citing statistics of things such as car accidents and heart disease at them has only driven them further to Trump and the racist hordes he leads. They're afraid and feel like they're being ignored by the left entirely. The U.S. certainly has culpability in the situation in the Middle East, but part of that comes from the seeming necessity of keeping the Saudi's happy. People still remember the oil crisis, and the public would not accept another. Due to that, we'll unfortunately prop them up until it runs dry, as nobody would commit that kind of political suicide. It's certainly not an "eternal cultural issue" that causes all the sectarian violence, just one that again, the Saudis and Iranians propogate to keep their stranglehold on the region.
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Dec 11, 2015 22:16
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Obdicut posted:No, this is not the main thing that is happening. The islamaphobia is not solely or even mainly directed against the Syrian immigrants. It is a broad smear. Maybe this explains why you think the two are inextricably linked; you're overlooking the underlying Islamaphobia, and thinking it's just a factor of the moment. I'm not talking about the refugees, but Middle Eastern immigrants in general. Islamophobia waxes and wanes in America with how recent a publicized terrorist attack in the west occurred.
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Dec 12, 2015 16:42
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Nevvy Z posted:I don't see why they can't be both. Good news!...well, not so good. More like terrible. For reference see; Trump, Donald.
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Dec 12, 2015 17:14
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Obdicut posted:Again, no, it's not just about immigrants. It's also about born-and-bred Muslims. By association, yes. That's why it's stupid. Muslims are painted as monolithic by the media any time the Middle East says "boo". I know exactly zero Middle Eastern Muslims, but know plenty of African American and Southeast Asian Muslims who are judged by association. I even have family get poo poo for being Arabic (Lebanese specifically) and living here for decades. It sucks rear end, but it's linked.
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Dec 12, 2015 17:21
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Tendai posted:gently caress's sake, the fact that 31% of DEMOCRATS answered "Yeah, put them on a database!" is horrifying, too. Put everyone in a database. Monitor it with an A.I., and keep the criteria public and applicable to everyone equally. Long live the Panopticon. 
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Dec 14, 2015 15:10
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Mandy Thompson posted:Trump is pandering to nativitist racism. It's riling up his supporters to feel confident and bold into being overt racists even though trump is not going to win. This is what concerns me. When Obama won, they rushed to the gun stores and caused an ammuntion shortage. They hate Hillary Clinton even more, if that's possible. What sort of crazy poo poo will they pull then?
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Dec 15, 2015 17:59
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Lord save me from New Athiests and their incessant pedantry. Nobody likes an evangelical, regardless of whether they wear a cassock or a fedora.
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Dec 17, 2015 16:48
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Bill Maher and Dick Dorkins are both representative of the New Atheist movement, and are both extremely Islamophobic and sexist. Clearly New Atheism is a toxic ideology that must be expunged from society.
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Dec 17, 2015 21:05
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khwarezm posted:New atheism has little reach, influence or respect while also being extremely poorly defined so fixating on it is pointless. Despite that it seems to cast a strange spell on religious people that results in vastly more literature been made attacking its small number of texts compared to the amount of stuff any of the New Atheists ever wrote so I don't know. The influence is minor of course, but the reach of it's message is only limited by the English language. Both of the above serial complainers have international audiences. As evidenced by the islamophobia of the Christian Right, they do not appreciate a fellow traveller in evangelist tactics and demonization that does not toe the party line. It really isn't very surprising. Absurd Alhazred posted:I get the sense that you are being ironic/sarcastic, but this argument is often made, both online and in the real world. This is true. It's not the most valid of arguments as far as equivalence, though it's on point in comparing their rhetoric.
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Dec 17, 2015 21:36
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Obdicut posted:I think speaking up in public is important, not so much for convincing Islamaphobes, but for stopping it from becoming the norm in everyday conversation. Agreed, but always check your area first. If there's an abundance of unnecessary camoflague in the fashion sense, or randomly throbbing forehead veins in the crowd? Might want to pick another day.
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Dec 18, 2015 15:46
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It was definitely a stupid idea, given the current environment. I worry that the teacher is looking to make a statement about it all through this.
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Dec 18, 2015 16:01
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Please take New Atheist chat to another thead.
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Dec 18, 2015 18:27
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Obdicut posted:This isn't New Athiest chat. It's been pages of quibbling over how inconsistant Christianity is, after the generalized "all religions are toxic" tripe. It's like watching a Fishmech attack, but you're the only one egging him on.
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Dec 18, 2015 18:39
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Obdicut posted:The fancy name for this is 'regret analysis' and it's the worst kind of decision-making but unfortunately dominant because most systems hang people out to dry if they gently caress up. What kind of legislation would help alleviate this end of the problem? The other end of course being the absolutely insane police response of holding a child for three days without informing the parents.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:18
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